knee pain

Unless there are any medical professionals among us, we shouldn't really be diagnosing. I'm sure between us all, we could think of dozens of ways to relieve the pain but they need to visit their GP

Unless there are any medical professionals among us, we shouldn't really be diagnosing. I'm sure between us all, we could think of dozens of ways to relieve the pain but they need to visit their GP

In many ways I'd agree with the statement above; however GP's are not usually specialists in musculoskeletal problems, and often seem to try to manage problems like this with pain killers and a long wait for physiotherapy, sure in the fact that many problems self resolve over time. In may local area there is a 16 week wait for PT, and I often see patients in my own clinic who simply don't want to wait that long. Sure, they've already seen their primary care provider, who should have rule out any "red flag" issues, but GPs themselves are ill equipped to manage these types of problems.

In answer to the original inquiry, pain on the medial side of the knee can come from quite a list of potential problems. I'd be tempted to see if the pain is worsened when flexing the knee against resistance; cycling is notorious for creating tight hamstring muscles, so I'd be thinking about that too. I'd be looking for pain on rotation of the lower leg with the knee flexed, as well as lateral play in the collateral ligaments. In fact, the list goes on and on, hence the need for a thorough investigation.

Unless there are any medical professionals among us, we shouldn't really be diagnosing. I'm sure between us all, we could think of dozens of ways to relieve the pain but they need to visit their GP

Unfortunatelly GPs are the last people who have any clue of why someone has knee problems - if you get to see a doctor that is as you are sent to see a nurse at least 4 times before seeing a doctor, then you are sent to a specialist for whose appointment you have to wait 1 month, then the results are sent back to the GP who again may send you to another specialist to see what causes your problems.

In most cases they don't even bother to send you to a specialist just prescribe a pain killer as already mentioned before.

This is a sports therapy thread in the sports therapies forum. There are many members who are sports therapists and sports massage therapists who are well qualified to answer this question.

On behalf of the moderators,
Myarka.

Hi Beagle

So what have you done so far to help your client?

Best wishes

Reiki Peeps :rolleyes:

well its not really a client, as its my brother who has the problem:rolleyes:

@Finalshine. In one way yes, others are perhaps more qualified to diagnose the problem like physio's :rolleyes: and leave us ST to treat it. but i do seem to remember during my course going through many many conditions, injuries, dysfuction of the human body, and i also remember the many specail test that can be performed to help give a detailed picture of why the client maybe get their pain.Also, we may have just a ST or SM title but some of us have attended many other course which progress our skills to higher levels that just a basic ST/SM (although they are also pretty good too:p),

My brother did go to GP, reply was NSAIDs rest, give up cycling:eek:, 2 month wait for physio, 5 month wait for specialist:eek::eek:

He also went to physio (as i was holiday at time, so couldnt see me), spent an hour with physio, bending, standing, hoping, talking, 2 minute pet massage on MCL and told what i had already told him, paid private £60.

These are the tests i performed;

[INDENT]McMurray
Apley's
"Bounce home"
Mediopatellar plica
"shutter"
Brush
McConnell
Leg Length
Noble compression
Saphenous Nerve
MCL
ACL/PCL
Sartorious was also tested which was a POS on test other muscles where tested but im boring you all now;)

and a few others that escape me for now

hamstrings do get tight from time to time, plus glutes and IT also become tight.pain does eases off on extension.

i would say i did a pretty good examination

any thought on possible treatments?

[/INDENT]

hi peeps:)

could the sartorious cause medial knee pain when the knee is flexing, or could it be a bursitis problem, so it is likely to be a knee flexor

knee pain eases off when extending the knee. as the knee flexor is not being used

client has slight blow leg, why not look at correcting it with myofascial release and unwinding techniques

does lots of cycling, competition standard, causes fascial resriction and tensile forces by countinual training in one ROM, did you do strength test through full range

tight glutes, due to dsyfunctional hamstrings they activate too early

your thoughts please

what is ROM (active) for hamstring test?

BGFL

Unless there are any medical professionals among us, we shouldn't really be diagnosing. I'm sure between us all, we could think of dozens of ways to relieve the pain but they need to visit their GP

unless you are in Manchester, and one of the many people who's GPs send them to our clinic to be assessed by a sports therapist for musculo-skeletal problems, because there are so many being misdiagnosed when they attend hospital.

I think a GP is probably the last place someone should visit for a musculo-skeletal assessment - closely followed by a physio with very little musculo-skeletal training - my opinion.

spot on biggaz as always:)

I have performed all techniques that have been suggested, which is why im a little stand still at the mo

i did show him some exercises/stretches that would help, but like most clients when they step out side the door they quickly forget, plus as i am the little younger brother, he doesnt really listen too.:rolleyes:

hamstring do activate to early, i spotted this at the start of the year, told him that it will cause problems down the line, and hey i was right:p

even though i have been treating him for 4/5 years and i know my stuff, especially when it comes to knees, i think my brother like most people are still very sceptical that ST/SM can help with muscular problems, well in the UK anyway

Unless there are any medical professionals among us, we shouldn't really be diagnosing. I'm sure between us all, we could think of dozens of ways to relieve the pain but they need to visit their GP

Personally I don't care what is wrong with me (diagnosis)
I am more interested in someone doing something (constructive) about it

Problem is many GP's see there job "done" with the former sooner than the latter

Oh! client is a competative cyclist ?

With cyclists who have medial knee pain, my focus switches to the I T band, as it is often very thickened and tense.

By reducing this tension (focusing on TFL, gluete max insertion and the distal attachment site) chicken and egg you should find your efforts to cure the medial pain problems now works.

Regards steve 🙂

just a quick not; regarding diagnosis. OK SM/ST are not supposed to give a "qualified diagnosis" but just to do our job we need to be able to tell and find what the problem is, to be able to give treatment we need to know how to find and see dysfunction/problems, we need to know how to test and record results, so i think ST/SM (the well trained ones at least) are skill to be able to give a level of diagnosis.

and yes most people just want to be able to get out of pain, regardless of why.

at the end of the day i will still tell my clients to seek Specialist/GP's advice for a full diagnosis, then the come back to me and say i was right all a long:p

good point about the IT band

what is ROM (active) for hamstring test?

BGFL.

just a quick not; regarding diagnosis. OK SM/ST are not supposed to give a "qualified diagnosis" .......................

No all we can do is

[LIST=1]

but can't mention the d word :rolleyes:

what is ROM (active) for hamstring test?

BGFL.

havent had chance to retest since knee became worse, as i havent seen him. but i will get a chance tomoz although not as a client, just passing by, will retest active hamstring ROM, from memory it was about 70 degree and improved after treatment, but like i say this is from memory of 4 months ago

but will retest if you think its needed, only see him for about 5 minutes tomoz

No all we can do is

[LIST=1]

Recognise the client's signs and symptoms and objectively evaluate the effect(s) on function / signs of primary and secondary dysfunction

Understand the pathology of the condition

Help determine the etiology (intrinsic / extrinsic) and suggest preventaive measures

Treat and improve the symptoms as presented

Objectively evaluate the effectiveness of any treatment administered

Provide comprehensive advice on the role the client can play in their own recovery

but can't mention the d word :rolleyes:

hehe like it:p, can i put that on my web site:cool:

No all we can do is[LIST=1]

Recognise the client's signs and symptoms and objectively evaluate the effect(s) on function / signs of primary and secondary dysfunction

Understand the pathology of the condition

Help determine the etiology (intrinsic / extrinsic) and suggest preventaive measures

Treat and improve the symptoms as presented

Objectively evaluate the effectiveness of any treatment administered

Provide comprehensive advice on the role the client can play in their own recovery

Seems a lot more than most GP's manage with a so-called diagnosis! Sixteen week wait for physiotherapy anyone?

This elegent 6-step process is exactly what we do with Chinese acupuncture, but we do have some interesting ways of describing pathology in TCM. Knee pain could easily be Wind-Cold, Wind Damp, Knee Obstruction, Blood Stagnation, Damp-Cold, Damp Heat, Wind Damp Cold, and a few others too! Not a diagnosis, as the TCM diagnosis would simply be "Knee Pain"; more a Differentiation which then determines the treatment process.