Is this a fair statement to make

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

My 2p
It looks more like an advert for the SMA & personally I would wonder why someone would feel it sooo necessary to say so much about their membership/qualification - is it because that carries more weight than their ability.

For me the testmonials (if they are true - have come across some that are doubtful in the past) would be more influential as that is someone who has has the treatment

FBx

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

Yeah it means something when he has to make statements like that rather than talking about his own abilities.

I've still yet to find out if he has an actual level3 holistic massage qualification or wether he just fast tracked over the whole thing.

I would like to post something to counter his points on my gumtree ad even though what he's saying is not directly aimed at me. I do still have a problem with it.

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

Yeah, and he doesn't have level 5 does he (LOL).

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

Oh, I forgot in case he is reading this, level 5 is even higher than level 4!

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

there has been a lot of debate on this forum re SMA and the different levels of qualifications. I have followed things closely, and it looks like the SMA make lots of statements that they cant really back up....

I have been informed that the SMA is not seeking protection of title, as this has already been applied for by the Society of Sports Therapists, and this will encompass Sports Massage. What SMA are trying to do is to have new National Occupational Standards put in place.....which I think could bea good thing, however, the massage industry as a whole are looking to go down the self regulatory path, and it looks as though the SMA will have to join this or risk being left behind....

Not being a member of SMA has had no effect on my practice.

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

Hi Brackie,

I too am very uncomfortable with the implication that any sports massage therapist who's not a member of the SMA is not worth visiting.

Having said that I'm just as concerned by the fact that pretty much anybody can use the title sports massage therapist considering the standards of some qualification providers.

For my money the sooner regulation is brought in the better and the stricter it is the more respect the title 'Sports Massage Therapist' will derive.

I don't personally give two hoots what organisation somebody is a member of for me it's just an exercise in getting insurance and the proof of the pudding is in the satisfaction of the clients which should be allowed to prove it's self with natural market forces and not a therapist's memberships.

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

Perhaps I am showing my age, but reading some of the earlier comments on this thread reminded me of a famous ‘Frost Report’ sketch (with John Cleese as the ‘level 5’ therapist and Ronnie Corbett as the ‘level 3’ therapist). But more seriously, I note ‘greengrass’ comment:

“Yeah, and he doesn't have level 5 does he “

Until very recently, there are no level 5 massage courses in the UK. ASET have very recently assessed the AHG course (which involves 20 days in the classroom plus home study) as level 5. I would be interested to see an impartial comparison of this course with the LSSM course (also 20 days plus home study) which BTEC have assessed as level 4. One difference appears to be that the AHG syllabus includes myofascial release, which wasn’t explicitly on the LSSM syllabus when I trained there (although there was a session on CTM, which is broadly similar)
As most readers of this forum will know, there are two course providers (AHG and LSSM) which don’t appear on the SMA list of accredited schools but which offer a syllabus of a higher standard than the SMA core curriculum (eg they include STR and MET). So anything which suggests that an SMA qualification is better than an AHG or LSSM qualification is misleading.

Having said that, it is also only fair to point out that there are quite a few people who advertise ‘massage’ without any professional qualification, and there are also some very ‘soft’ qualifications. As ‘sportstherapy’ pointed out on an earlier thread:

““there are training companies in the UK who teach VTCT sports massage over 2 days (in fact I now know of one who does it in one day) and then others who teach the course over a year. That is a staggering difference in the amountand LEVEL of training given, yet, their graduates get the SAME qualification. Unfortunately a lot ofemployers know about the difference in training standards, which then gives the WHOLE qualification and company a bad reputation. “

Anyone who has an SMA or ISRMlevel 4 qualification will have done at least 20 days in a classroom, and anyone with an AHG/ASET level 4 qualification will have done at least 15 days in a classroom. Obviously many people with a level 3 qualification will also have sent adequate time in a classroom, but unfortunately some will not. Also both ISRM and SMA require their members to undertake significant amounts of CPD, whereas some of the massage organisations which are affiilated to GCMT have much less stringent requirements.
Personally I agree with Leon Chaitow’s views on massage training, as set out on [link= http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Regular/chaito36.htm ]http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Regular/chaito36.htm[/link]

"The truth is that standards of training in the UK compare badly when contrasted with some European countries and more notably with what is found in North America.
In the USA itself standards also vary, since individual states demand quite large differences in their training requirements (ranging from 900 hours to none at all), and almost none of the US standards equate with what is generally agreed to be the highest standard of all - the Canadian (which itself is not uniform but which is uniformly better than anywhere else). In Canada (British Columbia at any rate) there exists a 2200 hour training requirement (with plans in place for over 3000 hours of class time).

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

I’ve found with the ITEC courses a lot depends on where you do the course or mainly who's teaching
the course. There are some very poor teachers out there teaching ITEC qualifications.

At the other end of the spectrum there are some excellent ones, my current sports massage tutor is very experienced and well trained.

Some tutors don’t have the right background and really just seem to do it to help pay the mortgage, yet some colleges still employ them because they have no idea about what standards are really required.

Often state colleges are just interested in numbers of students because of the way the funding of colleges works.


I’m not a great fan of ITEC in general ( I HATE THEM;)
but I think their course content is good.

I’m interested in training to level 4 or higher so perhaps when this one is finished I’ll enrol on a level 4 or 5 course. If I can get that amount of money together that is.

I have a problem with people who go on to study higher levels of massage skills without getting a holistic or Swedish massage qualification first.

Holistic massage and the holistic approach is not just about swishing your hands over somebody’s body with some pan pipes playing in the background and charging £30 for it.

It’s a basic grounding and consists of important skills and knowledge. It should not be done in a weekend or bypassed. The anatomy and physiology component of a level 3 ITEC course is vast and comprehensive. Of course there’s room to go further with A+P knowledge but none the less it’s a very high standard.

I’d like to see level 4 course in sports massage made more accessible by having them provided by or in partnership with by state run institutions.

Perhaps having a scheme where people can progress on from a level 3 anatomy and physiology course on through to holistic , sports and remedial level 3 , to level 4 A + P, level 4 sports and onwards might be a good system.

Getting the actual qualifications standardised but at same time keeping them innovative would be good. Innovation is important of course as sports science, knowledge, medicine and treatments are evolving and changing continuously.

As for STR and MET not being on the syllabuses of some level 4 course providers. I'm surp

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

re the weekend courses, have a look at Carlton Institute, [link= http://www.beauty-training.co.uk ]www.beauty-training.co.uk[/link] they run weekend massage courses, I would hate to have a 'treatment' from one of their graduates!

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

Wow,

That is scarey. I had always taken claimsthat 1 & 2 day courses existwith a pinch of salt before I saw that.

Adam

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

in my opinion the examining board, in this case VTCT, are at fault, and the reason why the whole industry is in the state its in. If they had set guidelines in place that they enforced then we wouldnt see substandard courses like this being offered.

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

It is scary. I wonder is VTCT are even aware of how things are run there.
It's not clear what level the "courses" are from that website but from what I can gaver they offer a level 3 course with 7 days classroom training, which makes a mockery out a QCA nationally accredited course.

I'd like to see that place closed downwith an official apology provided and all of the issued qualifications withdrawn/recalled.

If I get round to it I'll contact VTCT because there's some questions that need answers.

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

ORIGINAL: Brackie

Now back toMr smarmy MSMA Gumtree advertiser. How do I sort himout? Apart from giving him a big holistic slap!

I have been reading this forum and have been impressed with some very professional and intelligent entries until now.
Just how professional is this guy!
'I am the Mr Smarmy MSMA Gunmtree advertiser' and would never dream of entering this type of discussion but I would like to clear up a few points;
1. There are only levels3 &4forSMA members, I did only state the SMA as there are other qualifications, levels and professional bodies, and as I am a level 4 it is above level 3!Also, does this means that every level 4 member of the SMA is 'smarmy'?I have the qualifications and membership of a professional body that I am proud to be a member of and yet I am questioned as to why I dare tomention it?
2. The quotes about sports massage & theSMA etc are directly from the SMA and have not been changed by myself.
3. I have the wording 'sport & holistic massage' on my logo and as it is my logo I use it on all advertising. This back2best is my sports massage website and there are no other mentions of holistic massage so I am not advertising it through the website content. Ohthat reminds meMr Brackie from Abingdon, as youhave taken it upon yourself to be the 'massage police' and 'make an enquiry' I shall do you a favour and spare you wasting your time. If you look under the website of the 'Guild of Holistic Therapists'you will find a little known business called 'back2best' - this, I hope, will satisfy your curiosity that I am a full member of the Guild of Holistic Therapistswith all the boring stuff like recognised qualifications, insurance etc.
4. Why I state a lot about the SMA on my website is quite simply because I am a member and I would like to explain to others what the SMA is about, just as all of you are entitled to show anything about whoever you are members of on your website. All of my details regarding the SMA are taken 'word for word' from them and soif anyone has any questions they may want answering about the exact wording then feel free to contact them directly.
It is a shamethat no one has actuallyemailed me to ask anything aboutthis as all of my details are on my website as Mr Brackie kindly quoted - I suppose that it is just a coincidence that Mr Brackielives close to me and is also advertising Massage on the Oxford Gumtree, no what am, I saying - I am sure that he is more professional than that...
Anyway, I am sorry to go on and I hope that those who actually contributed with some intelligent, structured &some actuallyvalid points (though I am not going to say which ones 😉 are not offended by anything I have typed.
I enjoy a debate as much as the next masseur about professional bodies etc,but it is when it gets personal and unprofessional that it gets boring (and with many members holding libel & slander insurance) it can get quite expensive too!
Regards
Chris Chesterman MSMA - and especially for Mr Brackie... 'MGHT' too!

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

Hi Chris,
I'm glad you've had the opportunity to defend your position. You make many valid and interesting points. I would however like to pull you up on one thing.

All of my details regarding the SMA are taken 'word for word' from them and so if anyone has any questions they may want answering about the exact wording then feel free to contact them directly.

That is an easy cop out. You have advertised a quote from the SMA on your web site to discredit all Non-member Sports Therapists. You should either fullysupport it or remove it.

To my mind the view that any non SMA sports therapist is not worth visiting is disruptive, untrue and necessary only to those who need to succeed by putting others down.

Brackie - I think you too should also consider that point. Do you need others to fail in order for you to succeed? Chris makes some very valid points regarding the professionalism of your approach which I wish I had pulled you up on earlier.

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

I reckon you should meet up & buy each other a pint, clear the air a bit. Who knows could be the start of a wonderfull relationship!!??
Make sure the pub has a couple of doorman though in case you both kick off.[:@]

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

all i can say is im glad im not a sports masseur with all the infighting that goes on......:D.....im glad im a sports therapist! (at level 5.....[8D])

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

Just a general comment... 20 classroom days doesn't strike me as a lot. In Australia, the Remedial Massage Diploma(which includes all the Sports modules) is one year full time, with 150 hours forced penance in the student clinic (the pain!). Sounds to me like the SMA should tone down its rhetoric a little.

Henry

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

i do agree that the length of training in this country differs greatly from that in places such as Australia or USA, that being said, I dont necessarily agree that more classroom hours makes you a better therapist. For me, you are either a natural therapist or youre not, no inbetweens, thats why there are hugely successful therapists out there with no formal training, and then degree level graduates who are out of work.....

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

I agree. Some people were just never meant to be bodyworkers.

Here's a negative though... so many of my fellow students had massage-fatigue by the time we graduated that many took a month off, which turned into a few months... meaning that they didn't get table-time or start applyingtheir knowledge in a remedial setting straight out of college. It kind of meant that they either lost their feel (it does happen) or a chunk of their training.

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

Having said all that, there is the University of Westminster's (London) Bachelor of Science in Therapeutic Bodywork ([link= http://www.wmin.ac.uk/sih/page-289 ]http://www.wmin.ac.uk/sih/page-289[/link])... 3 years full time...

RE: Is this a fair statement to make

Hello
I've not logged in here fora good while so I was unaware of replies to this.

The statement made on the website was unfair and unaccurate that was why I posted on this forum.

I am totalyuncompetive in everything I do and I always have been, it's just not me.If I ever gave the impression that I had a problem with dunantin being in "competition" with me then it would be false one.

I wish anyone who has completed a level 4 sports massage course and whopractices all the best as they deserve it. I did though have a problem with the SMA statement which was quoted with your decision.

My remark

"Now back toMr smarmy MSMA Gumtree advertiser. How do I sort himout? Apart from giving him a big holistic slap"

This was meant as humour the only person I'm likely to slap is myself when I'm having an odd moment.

I'm not a very PC person and taken literally this remark would sound unprofessional and offensive but obviously it was meant as humour. Anyonewho knows meand would tell you it does fit in with my slightly Northern/scouse sense of comedy but nothing real would ever be meant by it. In reality Idon't find you smarmey at all . I've never met you. I'm sorry if this caused offense or if it was upsetting in anyway.

Dunantin you say you have an holistic massage qualification , Which one do you have ? At which level ?

Being a member of a professional association for holistic therapists does not necessarily mean you have a holistic massage qualification.

Having opinions does not make me unprofessional and as I've said before I have never been competitive.

I know of some excellent sports massage therapists who are not SMA members and I have a problem with them being discredited in anyway.

I know there is a problem with standards in the industry but it was still an inaccurate statement to quote.

I have always networked with and helped other local therapists. I do have a problem with the statement that you have put on your website and I wondered what the opionions of others would be.

I don't think anyone here could be accused of slander.

Dunantin I wish you all the best with your practice.

Sorry if I've not replied to others university course looks interesting.

I just wondered what people on here thought of this, what's below, given this history of interesting and useful debates and information exchange in this section of healthpages forums.

I took this from a fellow Oxford Gumtree Advertiser.

"I am a level 4 qualified member of the Sports Massage Association, level 4 is the highest level of sports massage recognised by the UK professional body - [link=]).
Under current law anyone is able to call him or herself a 'sports massage practitioner' or 'sports massage therapist'.
It is very important that any practitioner you visit is a qualified member of the 'Sports Massage Association' - they will have the letters 'MSMA' after their name (The Sports Massage Association, 2006)."

Isn't that a bit simplistic? Yes level 4 is better than level 3, but to me this sounds likes it's putting down a lot of none level 4 sports massage therapist's who may be just as good or better given years of experience regardless of wether they have the level 4 crown on their heads.

And no not just anyone can call themselves as sports massage practitioner you need to have a recognised qualification wether it's level 3 or level 4

The practitioners website is [link=]

I've noticed from it that he is also promoting himself as a holistic massage provider but I can't see any qualification listed for holistic or swedish massage on his website.

I might have to make an enquiry.

I have heard of a level 4 sports massage therapist being dropped from a centre because his style was too clinical, when the clients wanted a combined holistic and remedial approach. You can progress onto a level 4 course with out doing any of the holistic level 3 (Alevel training ) first of course.

When you do a search on SMA website its seems that there are comparativly
few peoplenationally with MSMA after there name in comparision to the great number of people who I would imaginework as qualified sports massage therapists.

I'm not even qualified in sports massage yet but I do take issue with therapists putting other therapists down for the sake of competitionevenif it's done in a more subtle but still obvious way. If he wishes to make a statement promoting himself as a highly trained practictionerthen fine, but I don't think his quotes, which slightly muddle issues together, are fair and accurate statements.

What matters is the individual treatment you get the results and the overall service.I don't think having a level 4 qualification automatically makes you a good therapist, although yes it may help.

I wonder how much of this whole issue is down to protectionism and money rather than real professionalism, skills and good results . After all ITEC is a money making industry as is no doubt is the SMA and it's recommended training providers. Yes that's simplistic in it's self but I still believe it's true.

Right now even online trained masseuse call the self therapists.....
Even physios do massages (lough laudly)....

This is reality of today’s life.... you cannot do anything - fair or not....