William Rand awarded $60,000 in lawsuit against Kathleen Milner

All i can find is

William received Reiki I in 1981 and Reiki II in 1982 from Bethel Phaigh who received her master training from Mrs. Takata. In 1989 he received the master training from Diane McCumber and Marlene Schilke and in 1991 from Leah Smith. In 2002, he received the master training in Gendai Reiki from Hiroshi Doi and also in 2002 the Komyo Reiki training from Hyakuten Inamoto. In 2001 he took Reiki I&II from Mrs. Yamaguchi and her son Tadao in Kyoto Japan.

So where did Diane McCumber teach?

When I was first attuned to Reiki I was given the lineage of my teacher which had William Lee Rand on it. I have no reason to doubt its sincerity and it shows William Rand being attuned by Cherie Prasuhn whose lineage is Pat Jack, Phyllis Furumoto, Hawaya Takata; Leah Smith whose lineage is Carrell Ann Farmer, Phyllis Furumoto, Hawaya Takata; and Diane McCumber whose lineage is Arthur Robertson, Iris Ishikura, Hawaya Takata.

Hope that helps rather than hinders.

Mike

Healistic,

Your quoted paragraph gives many seemingly identical results when copied into Google. Could you please quote here a link to your source. Many thanks 🙂

Holistic

Hi ya all

Sometimes I wonder what this Reiki thing is all about. To me the question of the validity of one aspect of Reiki or another is very very very boring! :sleep:Why is something so simple becomes so distorted

Has all the channelling, the investigations, modifications, claims of "Takata didn't teach the whole Reiki system to the west, but I have all the answers" stuff, improved or disproved the Usui Reiki System of Natural Healing?

Is one type of attunement more powerful over other or is it all ego? Is lineage more important than the act of actual healing?

Does an attunement really open somone to channelling Reiki, or is it just auto-suggestion?

May be the ritual of telling someone they are a powerful confident Reiki healer that can channel energy without depletion, is the catalyst for change within the student of Reiki.

May be Reiki is a dynamic vibration of healing energy, or may be it's all a load of B.S.

As for the validity of William L Rand, I don't care because doing Reiki is far more important than the ego battles amongst a minority of practitioners.

Best Wishes

Reiki Pixie

Court case Rand Vs Milner

Steven,

The settlement that Kathleen has been ordered to pay, stems form her attempt to clarify the preceding case that William filled against her.

Here are the details of her newsletter.

[INDENT]William Randsued me in 1995 on a business tort demanding that I pay him $60,000 because his income went down after I publicly declared that while William Rand was handing out a "Sai Baba Reiki lineage" with my name on it and making references to my book, Reiki & Other Rays of Touch Healing, (which included taking the symbols therein and in many cases changing the names and providing his own definition), William Rand was not doing the initiations that I talked about in my book, nor doing what I described in my book. William did not win his case against me - I was the defendant. The case was dismissed with prejudice. Mr. Rand signed a Statement of Settlement agreeing that the Reiki systems we taught were distinct and different.

My attorney represented me at the hearing, and I only met Mr. Rand once and quite briefly at a Reiki Conference in Kansas City, which was held well after Tera Mai had been trademarked. Mr. Rand initially saw the symbols that are in Reiki & Other Rays of Touch Healing at the home of Dorothy and Gordon Bell in Newcastle, England in my video (now a DVD), Symbols in Healing. Mr. Rand received initiations into what would shortly thereafter be trademarked as Tera Mai Reiki from Karen Murphy in Chicago, Illinois. Mr. Rand renamed and trademarked the Sai Baba Reiki initiations he was giving as Karuna Reiki.

The case, CIVIL ACTION NO. 25 DV 71628 DT, filed in United States District court, Eastern District of Michigan, Southern Division, and presided over by the Honorable Paul D. Borman, is on file and the records may be check and verified.[/INDENT][INDENT]In one of her newsletters last year she printed a description of the case and an explanation to help clarify many of the rumors that were floating around. [/INDENT][INDENT]Unfortunately Rand's lawyers pick up on it and brought her back to court, because in the previous settlement neither party was allowed to discuss the case at all. [/INDENT][INDENT]Since Kathleen put the results in her newsletter to clarify what had actually happened, she was then breaking the agreement and Rand's Lawyers jumped all over it. I did have contact with William and requested that he just let the whole matter go, as she was only looking to end many of the rumors that were floating around.

It would have been easy to just put out a joint statement.
[/INDENT][INDENT]Most of the Rumors that were being spread were that Kathleen was the one who sued William. Most of the rumors seemed to favor William and point at Kathleen as being the aggressor to sue William. The opposite was actually the case. It was totally in William's best interest that the rumors continue. Her Newsletter was only a presentation of the results of the case, nothing derogatory was said about William, only the facts. You see it is OK that everyone else talks about it, but Kathleen basically is not allowed to mention anything about the case. [/INDENT][INDENT]She did and now she owes William $60,000.[/INDENT][INDENT]As far as I know this has nothing to do with his Reiki Lineage or anything to do with Hawayo Takata. It was just business. [/INDENT][INDENT]I know some people do not like to get involved or care about these things and wish to dismiss it as two egos fighting it out in Court, but it really goes much deeper than that. [/INDENT][INDENT]It does have much to do with Freedom of speech. I suppose William could take me to court for what I have written here! [/INDENT][INDENT]What is really odd is that Kathleen has been ordered by the court to publish the facts of the case in her Newsletter and issue a public apology to William. It is almost Identical to what she was being sued over! [/INDENT][INDENT]I hope this helps clarify the situation. [/INDENT][INDENT]All Love[/INDENT][INDENT]Patrick[/INDENT]

NEW DEVELOPMENTS

Some interesting new developments were just brought to my attention in my quest to research modern Reiki history.

For reasons I do not know at this time, William Rand did not have to pay $60,000 to Kathleen Milner. I do not have documentation that supports this but have good reason to believe it's true.

Additionally, the new feedback I have been given suggests that they may not discuss the original case but may discuss the current case.

So with that in mind, anyone I have brought up for discussion may join in this discussion and add a completely new dimension (perhaps a more correct one) to the entire situation at hand.

If I have brought up any element for discussion that is factually incorrect, I need to know.

Buck

This really puts Reiki in good light, doesn't it. People sueing each other over Reiki; people claiming their Reiki is better than others. This is just what Reiki is about. Nice. :rolleyes:

Hi Darren

This is the point I was trying to make. Dr. Usui must be turning in his grave!

Reiki isn't the problem, it's all this trademarking and copyrighting by ego driven so called channelling*. Then they (the copyright/trademark holder) states this is to keep the purity of the system and to keep up standards. Really it's a commercial decision!

Reiki Pixie

* It was God, Buddha, a Tibetan monk, Usui himself, a Cornish piskey, Sai Baba (who???), or Zog from Alpha Century (a representive of the galactic council) told me to do it.

Pixie

The problem is much deeper than just people trademarking. The Trademarking is a result of Dishonest people making false claims about what they teach and the result is others creating a trademark so people will know what they are getting.

That is one reason why Reiki is being regulated in the UK soon.

All Love

Patrick

Keep in mind Kathleen never wanted to go to court. It was William Rand who to her to court. Kathleen was only defending herself.

Hi Patrick

Rules don't necessary make for a better world. There is unfortunately always some dishonest people around. Rules and regulation doesn't always stop them either. Gas installers in the UK have to be Corgi regulated but there are some (a minority thank goodness) who say they are when they are not and prepared to be fined by law. There has been TV programmes about this. Then there is the case of Shipman, the medical doctor who killed 100's of his patients before getting caught. Medicine is a regulated profession. An extreme case of course, but true. Even the famous naturopath and author Jan de Vries fined for practising osteopathy without proper registration in the UK. There are other osteopaths in the UK who are not registrated and called themselves manpulation or massage therapists, and that's legal under English Common law (at the moment).

So standards are questionable, that is why I question them!

Best Wishes

Dave

HI Dave,

In your post you seem to get the impression that I am in favor of the regulation and trademarking.

One of the reasons I did not Trademark Seichim or Sekhem is because I wanted it to be shared freely without all the restrictions.

I see the standardization of Reiki something that many other countries will adopt as well. Currently some Reiki therapist have to pass the Massage licensing in the USA. I personally would rather not have it, but it is part of the process as more people are realizing it's potential.

Again personally I would rather not have it. I teach in the UK so my preference would not have to deal with all the bureaucracy that will follow with regulations.

If people wish to have a trademark that is up to them, but trademarks need to be enforced and that will bring up another whole set of issues.

I hope this help

All Love

Patrick

Hi ya Patrick

Yes, I did rightly or wrongly feel that you was pro-regulation.

I'm kind of pro-regulation if it enhances the profession properly.

I just find it interesting how TMing or (C)ing causes so many problems, arguements, lawsuits etc, not just in Reiki but in many other therapies. May be it's better not to bother and take a risk. I think a better way of doing TMing is to TM the name of the school rather than the title of the therapy.

Best Wishes

Dave

Oh dear, only in America.....
It's only when money or prestige are at stake that problems arise.
What about 'for the greater/ higher good' or plain old fashioned for the love of fellow man?
When I trained (1 & 2) we had major discussions about lineage and whether it mattered, energy is energy, it all comes from the same source. we also discussed charging for treatments, asking for donations or should it be free? Unless you have financial overheads there's only so much you can legitimately charge without it being excessive.
It worries me when ego gets in the way, we should all be doing it for the same reason regardless of lineage, cost or status, but then I'm old fashioned and believe in doing things for the love of it.

Hi Cazplay

Don't we all wish it was limited to the USA! Keep in mind many lawsuits are one sided as well. Typically the defendant would rather not be involved, but gets drug into it. This really has nothing to do with the USA, it was simply and individual William Rand who brought Kathleen Milner to court.

I know of others in the UK who have been given legal threats by Helen Belot over their use of the word Sekhem, it is Fairly world wide.

All Love

Patrick

Reiki lineage is very important in my opinion. Other then finding a good teacher, it's the most important thing besides intention. I've been a teacher for 10 years and can say William Lee Rand is the real deal. First off its unethical for any reiki practitioner to talk crap about any master regardless of lineage. It's ego that brought a separation and changes in the lineages in the first place. In Buddhism teacher and lineage is also the most important thing when receiving empowerments. Scared texts are passed on from teacher to student just like reiki. The difference only a few people become teachers in Buddhism to pass on the teachings. This is how the texts remain sacred. William lee rand keeps the reiki line pure. He has a direct link and can prove it. He won the lawsuit and therefore runs the International Center for Reiki Training. If you look at his lineage you can see he's made it his life's work to study with as many masters as possible. In this day people trademark and copyright for the very reason why he had to sue in the first place. Fortunately William cares about the lineage and feels the need to keep its authenticity sacred, so people don't discredit reiki as quackery. It doesn't matter who your teacher is, but nobody should be putting down William. Especially if you know nothing about him or his background.

Hi Redtara - not sure if you noticed, but the original post was made 6 years ago, almost to the day. Much water under the bridge since then.

I understand that it is old news Jabba

Despite this, I do find very interesting
As even old news is new to someone
I am pleased that it has reappeared

It is not about the Reiki though (as I see it)
It is about the human characters within Reiki
And above all, we are human with human frailties

Reiki lineage is very important in my opinion. Other then finding a good teacher, it's the most important thing besides intention. I've been a teacher for 10 years and can say William Lee Rand is the real deal. First off its unethical for any reiki practitioner to talk crap about any master regardless of lineage. It's ego that brought a separation and changes in the lineages in the first place. In Buddhism teacher and lineage is also the most important thing when receiving empowerments. Scared texts are passed on from teacher to student just like reiki. The difference only a few people become teachers in Buddhism to pass on the teachings. This is how the texts remain sacred. William lee rand keeps the reiki line pure. He has a direct link and can prove it. He won the lawsuit and therefore runs the International Center for Reiki Training. If you look at his lineage you can see he's made it his life's work to study with as many masters as possible. In this day people trademark and copyright for the very reason why he had to sue in the first place. Fortunately William cares about the lineage and feels the need to keep its authenticity sacred, so people don't discredit reiki as quackery. It doesn't matter who your teacher is, but nobody should be putting down William. Especially if you know nothing about him or his background.

Hi RedTara,

I completely agree that having a good known lineage is important, especially if something is going to be called Reiki (unfortunately there are a lot of "Reiki" forms out there that have absolutely no connection to Japan, let alone Usui sensei), and it's good that William wants to keep his lineage known.

I don't think anyone here has talked "crap" about any other master, they've just been presenting the facts (albeit the facts from a few years ago now!) as they know them.

I'm not sure how much we can say that William "won" the lawsuit. Based on the details presented on this thread, it would seem that there was an agreement initially that they were both teaching different things, and it was only when Kathleen talked about the case in her newsletter that she broke a condition of the agreement and William was awarded the money as a result. That's not really a "win" in terms of the inititial reason for why the case was brought; as far as I can see, it doesn't change the apparent fact that they had agreed they were teaching different things. Sure, people can trademark things if they want, and if they are the original creator of that thing, but when it comes to something like Reiki, you cannot trademark the simplicity and original practices of the practice itself, only add-ons and logos/names specific to your own business.

If someone is simply practicing Reiki as it was originally intended, I don't see that there is any need to trademark or sue people over their use of the same.

I don't favour William or Katherine in such a case, as both appear (from the information I have seen about their practices) to have adapted Reiki and added on things that I would deem to be unnecessary.

I find it interesting you make a point that William has made it his lifes work to study with as many masters as possible, and that's great if that's what he chooses. However it raises a question in my mind (perhaps suited to a thread of it's own) as to how many masters does a person need to study with to become a master themselves, or indeed if having many masters could interfere with mastering something completely. One for me to go away and consider...

All Love and Reiki Hugs

I've been a teacher for 10 years and can say William Lee Rand is the real deal.

The fellow who made the original post was certified and began teaching in 1993. I also know that when he was living in Southern California, he received a telephone call directly from William Rand to ask for his opinion about whether or not it would be morally or ethically wrong for Rand to get a domain name titled "reiki.org". The poster replied "yes, do it!" to Rand. (and as a miscellaneous FYI, domains cost some $100 per year back then).

First off its unethical for any reiki practitioner to talk crap about any master regardless of lineage.

What in the original post inspired you to make that comment?

It doesn't matter who your teacher is, but nobody should be putting down William. Especially if you know nothing about him or his background.

In what sentences does the original poster put Rand down? I see a public inquiry to find truth by asking others for validation of facts, but I do not see or interpret any insults in the original post.

This is how the texts remain sacred. William lee rand keeps the reiki line pure. He has a direct link and can prove it.

The argument you present suggests that since he has studied under many Reiki masters, HE is the direct pure link to the reiki line.

In this day people trademark and copyright for the very reason why he had to sue in the first place.

In this day copyrights are automatic and formal filings are not required.

The frequency of Reiki trademarks, however, are a result of the lawsuits between Rand and Milner.

He won the lawsuit and therefore runs the International Center for Reiki Training.

You may wish to research Rand's (and Milner's) teaching prior to Karuna Reiki (and Milner's Tera-Mai Reiki). They were both teaching (call it "attuning" for a reiki-ized version of the concept) Sai Baba energy, until the living Sai Baba himself got word of what they were doing and essentially said that they were not authorized to teach in his name.

Your statement implies that Milner sought to acquire the ICRT from Rand, and she did not.

Dear Energylz,

Thanks for the great response. You have wonderful points:)

As a Buddhist practitioner, I've done my core practices/empowerments and teaching like red Tara 5 times. It gets stronger every time. I find that each time I learn a little more and something changes each time.

With this being said I don't think everyone needs to learn reiki over and over. But it says something about Rand and his dedication and mastery to really understanding it.

I get sensitive about the Reiki community and that includes all branches. Rand or not;) Every practitioner and or teacher is special.

The fellow who made the original post was certified and began teaching in 1993. I also know that when he was living in Southern California, he received a telephone call directly from William Rand to ask for his opinion about whether or not it would be morally or ethically wrong for Rand to get a domain name titled "reiki.org". The poster replied "yes, do it!" to Rand. (and as a miscellaneous FYI, domains cost some $100 per year back then).

What in the original post inspired you to make that comment?

In what sentences does the original poster put Rand down? I see a public inquiry to find truth by asking others for validation of facts, but I do not see or interpret any insults in the original post.

The argument you present suggests that since he has studied under many Reiki masters, HE is the direct pure link to the reiki line.

In this day copyrights are automatic and formal filings are not required.

The frequency of Reiki trademarks, however, are a result of the lawsuits between Rand and Milner.

You may wish to research Rand's (and Milner's) teaching prior to Karuna Reiki (and Milner's Tera-Mai Reiki). They were both teaching (call it "attuning" for a reiki-ized version of the concept) Sai Baba energy, until the living Sai Baba himself got word of what they were doing and essentially said that they were not authorized to teach in his name.

Your statement implies that Milner sought to acquire the ICRT from Rand, and she did not.

Ligh

LightBody nbsp;

It s fine you picked apart every sentence I wrote.
If you read through the thread, some people do speak about Rand in a negative way. One person even suggests he's rolling over in his grave. Yet he's still alive. Regardless of how the words are phrased it's still a boomerang. Negative thoughts, speech, and actions create karma. Please be careful with your words. I said he had a direct and pure link. Not the only link.

I said he had a direct and pure link.

So, of the several individuals he received attunements from, which one was the direct and pure one?

I said he had a direct and pure link.

So, of the several individuals he received attunements from, which one was the direct and pure one?

Does this imply that an indirect and impure link?

Any one who dedicates themselves to a "practice" that they know in every cell and fibre of their body (so to speak) is the right thing them to do is going to be successful.

LightBody nbsp;

It s fine you picked apart every sentence I wrote.
If you read through the thread, some people do speak about Rand in a negative way. One person even suggests he's rolling over in his grave. Yet he's still alive. Regardless of how the words are phrased it's still a boomerang. Negative thoughts, speech, and actions create karma. Please be careful with your words. I said he had a direct and pure link. Not the only link.

If you mean me and post #9, I said:

Dr. Usui must be turning in his grave!

It's was a tongue-in-cheek comment said in commonly used way to express the some of the silly aspects of the Reiki movement 😉

Does this imply that an indirect and impure link?

I think it does.

Any one who dedicates themselves to a "practice" that they know in every cell and fibre of their body (so to speak) is the right thing them to do is going to be successful.

I agree when success is measured by what one learns about oneself through the process.... A different perspective is obtained when looking at the quantity of people who are actually helped by one's practice.

Is one type of attunement more powerful over other or is it all ego? Is lineage more important than the act of actual healing?

I agree 100%. Well said!

I had the opportunity to take Reiki with William Lee Rand last week. He talked about his life his journey how he got into Reiki and everyone he studied with.

He addressed the trademark thing. When Takata brought Reiki to the west she didn't let people write down the symbols, so over the years people changed them because they forgot how to draw them. The trademark is in place for those who want to be a part of ICRT and keep everything the way it was intended to be taught. Some might disagree with what that means exactly and that's okay. Personally I like what he has done with reiki and I'm happy he did what he did.

I'm happy to have met him in person and take a class directly with him. I feel confidant William Lee Rand is an egoless person. He is a kind soul who lives his life for Reiki and healing. I applaud him for doing what he can to keep a direct strong lineage. He's an amazing man and has the karma for what he's doing. Everyone should take a class from him if they can. Life changing experience. I love that man.