physiotherapy and sports therapy crossovers

Hi TT,
firstly, when it comes to MSK problems I dont think there is any comparison with what a physio with basic training and what a well trained sports/remedial therapist can do. By basic training I mean the 3 year degree with no post-grad training, and by well trained I mean anyone that has covered the NOS/CC in sports therapy. They are two completely different skills sets, and a good ST can do far more.

In my clinic we see so many people that have been discharged from NHS without being fixed, and this is because IMO they are treated by the wrong people.

Im not one to usually sing my own praises, however, I was the first to include good fascial release training on a sport/remedial course, and had it included in the NOS, because I saw the amazing results that we were getting in our clinics. Unfortunately a lot of MFR 'courses' are being taught by people who have done a one or two day 'practitioner' course, or people that follow a 'name', so the results arent as good as they could be, but at least its a start. I think every course should include MFR (and lots of courses have followed the AHG lead and started to) as standard, because combined with other soft tissue techniques and rehab, the results are amazing.

I am confident that when all the new schools teaching ST and working in line with the NOS and CC's, we will be training a brand new breed of ST, that will be so skilled that it overtakes physiotherapy, and the NHS start to recognise just how useful it is. (On the other hand, I do pray every day that these schools employ experienced and well trained STs to teach it, otherwise we are well and truly sc****d! Please please please, NO one day teaching workshop that gives you tutor status, its shoddy and its bad practice!!).

In terms of joint replacement, fascial release before any rehab, works wonders.

Politically, we have a long way to go, but then we have also come a long way, and regardless of what anyone thinks, SRTC are the ones that will push and push and push for standards to be raised in every school.

as a quick PS and going slightly off topic, NHS physios have a hard job with budgets and targets etc, and it doesnt help that the system is clogged up with layabouts who claim to have bad backs to get their incapacity benefits, my GP friends have to issue the sick notes, and my physio friends have to deal with them in the hospitals, and they are a drain on us all. When the government sorts this out (if they ever do), then maybe our NHS physios will have more time dealing with the genuine patients and will get better results?

"Physio rant;
I have also had similar experiences and, to the misfortune of a family member, seen at first hand a fully discharged patient.

The person in question is my grandmother, and recently had a fall resulting in her needing a complete shoulder replacement.

I thought id give the NHS a chance as this is not entirely in my remit to work with what id consider form ym training 'special populations', so let the physios do their work."

Ironically TT the reason I am in this industry is because I suffered the same injury and for years sought rehab for my shoulder condition before finally having the replacement at the age of 40...... If I could turn back the clock I would not have had the first surgery, never mind the following 6 or 7 ops. I travelled over 60 miles to a specialist physio who verbally guaranteed to sort out my problem, I was discharged afterv 6 weeks with little improvement.
Hence my personal quest to get myself trained, and now further down the line help to ensure that those STs graduating from the diploma courses have the best available and thorough training.

NHS are tied and therefore the motivated physios are workijng with theri hands tied by budgets and targets, it is the fault of the system not the individual.

The way I see it is the Physio does the early rehab, post op care and functional rehab ( perfect world) , the cross over with my role is that I CAN do that work, but I choose to concentrate in the more progressive rehab, right up to return to sport, my experience in the fitness industry and sports coaching gives me vocational experience that I honestly belive is not available to recent degree graduates, yes they have the science and research to back up their proposed plan, but in real terms they cannot deliver that plan for the above limitiations in their access to the client.

I also realise that the majority of general publlic will exhaust the NHS route, many will see little improvement and like your Granny will maintain a stiff upper lip, be typically British and get on with their life , albeit severely restricted.

I and other therapsits offer a service that will help achieve a better quality of life through increased activity levels, those that place a premeium on that will pay our fees, but I and my colleagues are a bit archaic in our attitudes, for we are not motivated by money, we are motivated by helping others to achieve their true potential. That is the reason I do so much work on a voluntary basis, to ensure educational standards are as high as we can achieve, that is why my passion is to seperate the courses which promise all but deliver little from those that I truely believe offer the end user a better service.

I have been personally attacked on these fora for standing up for higher standards, for the work that I do. But I know in my heart that what I am doing is for the right reasons and for the good of the industry.
I speak personally to those who sit at the upper echilons of this industry, I listen to their flase promises and see through their veil that they are simply protecting both ego and income stream.
I may upset some of you from time to time, that is unintentional, sometimes my passion clouds my judgement momentarily, ( i always learn from my mistakes) but at the end of the day I want you and your families and friends to be able to access PROPER EFFECTIVE AFTERCARE AND REHABILITATION.

TT,
if you PM me your location I will happily recommend a suitably trained colleague to assist your granny.
BG

I completely understand the targets, but surely some of the people in the upper echelon's of the CSP should take a stance and inform the NHS that meeting targets is detrimental to the patient care? Maybe that is for another discussion board, or maybe I should keep quiet as it does seem to be a good money spinner?

Sorry to hear about your entrance into the world of sports therapy, I think for a lot of people becoming a therapist is due to the fact you were once injured.

MFR, im yet to practice in it and would like to learn more but its finding the times to find and do a good course.

Any advice on courses would be appreciated!

as a quick PS and going slightly off topic, NHS physios have a hard job with budgets and targets etc, and it doesnt help that the system is clogged up with layabouts who claim to have bad backs to get their incapacity benefits,?

I agree that is one of the major challenges facing NHS physios and I do sympathise however this does not excuse the fact that a person trained to work in a hospital setting with geriatric, pediatric, limb amputees, neurological dysfunction etc, is 'promoted' as an 'expert' in supporting sports people and athletes :confused: (and those decide to work in private practice are happy to continue this 'myth')
Why on earth are professional footbal clubs . major sporting events etc required to have a chartered physio?
Anyone remember Darren 'sicknote' Anderton and Les Ferdinand having to go to Germany for treatment whilst at Spurs? Didn't they have a physio :rolleyes:

(In my experience anyway) any event / facility which has both therapists and physios, athletes / footballers etc will ALWAYS seek out a sports (massage) therapist in preference. Doesn't this also speak volumes?

ps
my daughter has just suffered a Potts fracture and despite me being perfectly capable of giving her rehab she still has to go to NHS 'physio'
Fair enough since thats the 'system' but guess what she wa given to help mobilise her ankle...an ELASTIC :banghead: theraband ...........D'oh

ps
my daughter has just suffered a Potts fracture and despite me being perfectly capable of giving her rehab she still has to go to NHS 'physio'
Fair enough since thats the 'system' but guess what she wa given to help mobilise her ankle...an ELASTIC :banghead: theraband ...........D'oh

That is their plan A, it just so happens that they dont have a plan B, but Unis are now including massage in their courses, so they have gone full circle, but wont now be able to use their "evidence based practise" cure all approach. It also doesnt explain how they will administer the massage in their 10-15 minute appointment slots. but hey ho it gives us something to talk about.
regards
BG

ps
wont now be able to use their "evidence based practise" cure all approach

However they still persist with ultrasound as being the staple 'cure all' despite (as far as I am aware) there is little / no evidence to support its efficiacy
😉

eg:
Adding Ultrasound in the Management of Soft Tissue Disorders of the Shoulder: A Randomized Placebo-Controlled Trial” by Kurtais Gürsel et al in the April 2004 issue of Physical Therapy.

concludes
based on the results of this study, we argue that the authors can conclude only that US was not beneficial to this group of subjects
:rollaugh:
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/84/10/982.full "> http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/84/10/982.full

this does not excuse the fact that a person trained to work in a hospital setting with geriatric, pediatric, limb amputees, neurological dysfunction etc, is 'promoted' as an 'expert' in supporting sports people and athletes :confused: (and those decide to work in private practice are happy to continue this 'myth')
Why on earth are professional footbal clubs . major sporting events etc required to have a chartered physio?
Anyone remember Darren 'sicknote' Anderton and Les Ferdinand having to go to Germany for treatment whilst at Spurs? Didn't they have a physio :rolleyes:

(In my experience anyway) any event / facility which has both therapists and physios, athletes / footballers etc will ALWAYS seek out a sports (massage) therapist in preference. Doesn't this also speak volumes?

I fully agree with that, ive said time and again, physios are trained to work in the NHS, and not in sport or private practice unless they have done their post grad training. Its another one of those historical links that im confident that with the combination of SRTC and CNHC will be broken down within 5 years.

The level of training that we currently have has been recognised by the government as good enough for the NHS, but the problem we have is, historically, the PAs who had pretty much tied up work in sport havent always had the best trained therapists, and some of those in sport think that all sports 'therapists' are the same. With the increase in standards and qualifications that we are seeing we will be having a new breed of sports therapists trained nationally, and not just by a handful of decent training providers. Funnily enough though, historically, a lot of the 'bucket and sponge' physios, werent even trained as physios, but got physiotherapy status through the HPC grandparenting route because they had been doing the job!

Regarding sending some of our elite athletes to Germany, we had a client who was being sent over to Germany by his coaches, he came to us for sports massage, and we asked why he was being sent to Germany, and he told us that he was seeing the 'best in the world' for his problem (even though yes he did have a physio). After assessing him, it was obvious that he still had the problem, which the German 'specialist' hadnt resolve.....guess who fixed it.....yes a 'mere' sports therapist!

As for putting massage back into the physiotherapy degree, there may be a case that if the dont meet the new nationally recognised standards, then they couldnt perform massage anyway, which is the case with a lot of 'sports' type degrees, where massage is covered but not insurable.

Richard
Do you like Man U?
There must be something we disagree on 🙂

Richard
Do you like Man U?
There must be something we disagree on 🙂

Well come to think of it "You like potato and I like potahto, You like tomato and I like tomahto. Potato, potahto, Tomato, tomahto, Let's call the whole thing off" :D:D:D:D:D

Do I like Man U? To be honest im not much of a spectator, got so much of a buzz working in sport, watching it doesnt give me the same kick (no pun intended), every time I watch football or rugby im still just watching for the injuries, and trying to guess what they have injured! (geeeeek!) lol So, I actually like both Man City and Man U, as I have done bits and bobs at both places in my time.

To be fair, we both come from an era where sports massage was pretty well respected, and was fit for purpose, before the politics (and physios running the PAs) took over and left it in a mess! But the glory days are coming back!

PS - was your daughter advised about safety eyewear when given the elastic band?

HI ST,

Is there any chance we can see some example work from some of the students coming out of the courses? along with the course structure, I read the NOS, however I beleive you may have suggested that the originals and the current courses dont match and have a few differences?

Just as a fellow professional, want to gauge the course, as a few people have asked me about becoming a sports therapist, I dont want to be overly biased and always suiggest a uni, or a distance learning course 😉

As there seems to be bundles of info out there on courses, i thought it may be appropriate to have a list of schools etc that teach the course and the success stories also.

HI ST,

Is there any chance we can see some example work from some of the students coming out of the courses? along with the course structure, I read the NOS, however I beleive you may have suggested that the originals and the current courses dont match and have a few differences?

Just as a fellow professional, want to gauge the course, as a few people have asked me about becoming a sports therapist, I dont want to be overly biased and always suiggest a uni, or a distance learning course 😉

As there seems to be bundles of info out there on courses, i thought it may be appropriate to have a list of schools etc that teach the course and the success stories also.

Hi TT,
I am assuming you are talking about the AHG course? To be honest that is a big ask, as at the end of the day AHG is still a commercial enterprise, and you wouldnt believe the lengths (and costs) people go to do get the information you are asking for, as its taken us a long time to get where we are, and many people have tried to copy the format.

Success stories are easier to come by as AHG do have some testimonials on their website, but the work students complete is their own, and once they have been signed off, their work is returned to them.

Regarding NOS not being (IMO) up to scratch, that really doesnt matter anymore, as all the awarding organisations are writing their new qualifications to meet both NOS AND SRTC core curricula, which is the minimum requirement for CNHC registration. SRTC has the rehab units in there.

Totally understandable, I didnt think about the stealing of courses, so thats fine.

I just thought it may be interesting to see the depth, the content and the way it is delivered, comparable to other such courses.

I suppose it would be best just to telephone and ask!

As for the work side of things, id like to just review thew standards of work more than anything. Lots can be said about the relevance of courses, the knowledge etc etc but until you see some work that is produced, then it is impossible to make a fair judgement, which to this point, im yet to do!