Naturist massage - bare issues

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With this level of interst in naturism would it be worth having a naturism form in the lifestyle section?

A really good post Jaez, and obviously some research gone into it. I prefer being undraped myself, but as for the therapist being naturist or dressed, I have no preference. Luckily, I have found a really good therapist who is happy for me to be undraped and the massage does include buttocks and abdomen.

Regarding arousal, it may happen, it may not, but I can't see her having a problem with it should the circumstance "arise". Again, regarding the "wet fish" syndrome, there has been no touching of the genitals, just the abdomen and inner thigh, and if any accidental brushing did happen I don't think it would create a problem for us.

I'm just grateful to have found a really good therapist that I feel totally at ease with. (Plus she makes a good cuppa too;))

As for me giving a massage, I'm equally happy either way too, either dressed or naturist.

Massage

Not having a go at your post but personally I am sick of telephone calls asking for naked massage when I do not consider it part of therapy practice.

Plus most of these clients do not turn up for their appointments!

Ellie

...... personally I am sick of telephone calls asking for naked massage when I do not consider it part of therapy practice.

Plus most of these clients do not turn up for their appointments!

Ellie

If you do not consider it part of your therapy practice then I am puzzled as to you why accept them as clients?

If you do not consider it part of your therapy practice then I am puzzled as to you why accept them as clients?

Well said
:rollaugh:

I give both draped and undraped without any problem and I remain draped. But I have been undraped once when giving a massage to a naturalist couple I know. No problems, but for various reasons would not offer it as a service.

Jaez your post is a good start in consolodating the various posts. I think a separate forum would be good.

The most repeated comment regarding naturist or undraped massage relates to the flow of the massage, which is obviously greatly improved without towels or underwear in the way.

Simon

Hi jaez

You are entitled to start a new topic in any part of the forum as long as it is pertinent to the discussions within the subjects of the forum headings. This part of the forum is about therapies, so this is the obvious place to discuss naturalist massage.

We regret to confirm that a naturists forum will not be created elsewhere on Healthypages. This final decision has been endorsed by the Administrators.

On behalf of the Moderating Team

I am surprised by Ellie’s statement that she is:

“sick of telephone calls asking for naked massage when I do not consider it part of therapy practice”

Now it is certainly possible that some of Ellie’s callers are actually looking for sexual services (particularly if she advertised in a local newspaper), but my experience is that some genuine clients will also prefer to be naked, because it allows a more flowing massage. I’m not sure whether Ellie is aware that nudity appears to be the norm for receiving massage in American and European spas. For example, the American website <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://spas.about.com/cs/spa101/a/SpaEtiquette.htm "> http://spas.about.com/cs/spa101/a/SpaEtiquette.htm states:

“People who have never had a <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="massage">massage always ask the same question: "Do I have to take my clothes off?" There is a lot of apprehension about [url]taking your clothes off at the spa.[/url] A traditional [url]Swedish massage[/url] is usually done nude, but you are draped and only the part of your body that is being worked on is exposed. … You can always wear your underwear during a massage if you want to “

Similarly, the London College of Massage clinic (which is definitely a very reputable establishment) states on its website:

“Your First Appointment - What HappensAt your first appointment your therapist will ask you briefly about your medical history, lifestyle and general state of health. You should mention any present problems you may have, any medication you are taking and try not to eat or drink too heavily beforehand. For a whole body massage it is usual to undress, although some people prefer to keep on their underpants. Towels are folded over you, to keep you warm as much as to preserve your dignity.”

Incidentally, although I can see the advantage of the client being naked, I personally cannot see any reason for the therapist to be naked. In most massage routines, the client is face down for most of the treatment, so that the therapist’s choice of uniform should be immaterial.

Alan

I trained at an FE college doing the ITEC Holistic massage course and it was drummed into us about keeping the client covered up and maintaining their privicy almost to the point of obsession - towel draping/management is important but the point I am trying to make is that it was never an option to let the client be totally undressed and a lot of collegues I have spoken to about this are still reticent to let the client make a choice. I feel I have since learnt a lot about client care etc since qualifying along with new techniques but ultimatley it is up to the therapist how they work - if they dont want to have clients naked then it is their choice even if it means losing a client.

In the early days of my business I had a caller who wanted a massage but as a naturist wanted to be totally undressed - at the time I was not happy to do this and said so and tried to offer several other therapists who would be happy to - this caller rang me several times trying to persuade me to massage him to the point that I felt bullied - ok it was my hang up but as a mobile therapist I wanted to be careful and was nervous - I had said that I would probably be happy to massage him undressed after a couple of appointments because by then I would have got to know him and felt more comfortable but he didnt want that.

it is a shame that there is not some sort of registar of therapists who are happy to offer undraped and naturist massage without it being mistreated and that therapists can refer the caller/client to without causiung offence

I hope I havent offended anyone with my thoughts and that they are not too badly explained

I had a caller who wanted a massage but as a naturist wanted to be totally undressed this caller rang me several times trying to persuade me to massage him to the point that I felt bullied - ok it was my hang up but as a mobile therapist I wanted to be careful and was nervous

It certainly was not your hang up it was your choice. It's a two way street - choice for the therapist and choice for the client.

I've experienced quite a few of the phone calls where they have tried to guilt me into doing an undraped massage. I do lomi lomi, about the most minimal draping possible, draping is placed and not adjusted until they turn over, it doesn't interfere with the flow. I've heard all the excuses of how draping interferes with the flow, too much time is wasted adjusting draping, personally I find the client keeping their socks on interferes with the flow of the massage, but no-one harps on about the right to keep their sock on/off.

I don't offer undraped massage to unknown clients, I don't offer appointments within 48hrs of the intial phone call to unknown clients - my choice, not my hang-up. If someone can't accept that, they are welcome to go somewhere else, their choice. If someone rings up for deep tissue massage and I tell them I don't do that, they don't waste their time trying to convince me to give them a deep tissue massage, they get off the phone and find the next therapist, they can understand no. I 0.
find that many of the the ones that ring up asking for undraped massage, when I say I don't do that, they try and convice me I should, when they should just try and find someone that will offer it rather than try to convince me I should. I don't understand why they can't accept that no means no.

:)thank you cola - not just me then

I no longer answer any withheld number calls - they are all of a sexual nature when my advertising CLEARLY states that I do not undertake services of a sexual nature and do not advertise in papers etc.

There's also draping and draping and as yet I have not had any complaints that moving a towel has interfered with the flow of the massage.

People can remain "covered" without being trussed up like a christmas turkey and still remain "decent".

This one is just going to run and run

There are clients and therapists who despite being into an activity which virtually demands access to the unclothed body, would be shocked at the sight of the naked human body in that very context, or at the thought of being "seen" if they are the recipient of the massage. I do find that to be a controversial dilemma.

There are therapists who think the naked body is not decent in the context of a massage

"the towel is there to protect your decency or modesty" - whose decency or modesty the clients or the therapists, or both ? Different answers from different people.

There are therapists who are entirely relaxed about whether the client is naked before them or covered (probably more than will admit it), just as there are clients who are relaxed about their own bodies.

There are a few therapists who understand and offer naturist massage

Nothing said in these forums is likely to change the views of people with these views and other variations.

But the really silly thing is the number of times, nudity or naturism in massage, a therapy that requires access to unclothed parts of the body, is associated with supposed "indecency" being a consequence of that state of undress.

There are massages where a nude client is required. For example Chavutti thirumal, and while it is arguable, probably also lomi lomi - are these styles of massage "indecent" ?

There are undoubtedly indecent things that can be done to and by the naked person. But nudity of itself does not mean that either party is going to be indecent.

And as I said earlier this will just run and run.

Well said Alrl

maybe this is a male female difference

I go back to my original point about teaching and how some courses really drum it into you about towel management etc and it is sometimes only experience of working that relaxes the therapist

as a female therapist I do seem to get phone calls from men asking if I perform extras and they get my details off the Embody site!
and I am not talking about people being fully unclothed I am talking about
to quote one caller "rapid hand movements in the private region"
As a married woman I have forgotten what that it:027:

I honestly can only imagine the pain giving a massage without a bra on - I'd keep bumping into them! Owwwwww - nooo way!

Common Sense

As therapists we all have to make judgements on whether something is safe or not to do. I feel this is one of those things that is hard to advertise as it gives the wrong impression to some.
I have given a naturist massage previously and had no problems.

This is such a funny post. Come on boys and girls (yes BOYS AND GIRLS) who are we kidding??? Why do some people insist on pretending that there is no sensual or sexual connotations of asking a complete stranger to touch and massage your completely naked body? Of course, some of those queries are genuine, but does that 1% really warrant so much discussion? Perhaps the non-sexual/sensual enquiries might even be 5% but it's definitely not the majority.

I have a good piece of advice for women receiving the 'can you please massage me naked because [some weak excuse about why the guy needs to be totally naked]' ... just reply pleasantly, that of course that can be arranged, but for obvious reasons, the therapist will be a heterosexual male. I would guess that 90% of those ever so genuine (not) enquiries would miraculously & very suddenly disappear 😉

And as for all the naturists out there looking for a fully naked massage...well why don't you just ask another naturist therapist where surely there would be no problem. Obviously naturism is not yet generally accepted as the norm (ie you can't walk down Oxford Street, London naked without being arrested) so why the heck do you expect general society therapists to accept your bent when the rest of society's services haven't? I mean I don't see any complaints about not being able to get a naked massage whereas it's ever so easy to get a naked dentist appointment, mortgage advice or lunch at mcDonlalds! Get my point?

Ps. I am the original author of "men and massage ... oh yes, and a bit about being naked!", surprisingly the highest viewed topic on this type of subject....so thought it would be interesting to give my latest views 😉

I dont think anyone is suggesting that ALL therapists should offer naturist or even undraped massage. I think plenty of people who are happy to massage either undraped clients or undertake naturist massage have made the point that it is a question of personal choice for both those receiving and those providing massage.

A significant majority of my Swedish Massage clients prefer naturist massage and none of them, fall into your "95 to 99%" category, proving I fear, that a significant "percentage" of percentages quoted by people trying to make a point are dubious at best.

BTW I think there is a significant difference between sensual and sexual when it comes to massage not to mention life in general.

I am a hetrosexual male who provides naturist and undraped massage.

I think every therapist should do whatever they are comfortable with. I have received a lomi lomi massage by a male therapist, where i was completely naked and it was the best massage I have ever received. He had said I could keep my underwear on if i wanted to but I choose to take if off as i knew the massage would be better.....but also I have been in the position of massaging a male where I felt uncomfortable. I agreed for him to be completely naked but he was covered with a towel during the massage. During the massage the towel fell to the floor accidentally on purpose. I continued in a professional manner with the massage and fortunately all was well, but because I felt uncomfortable I choose not to massage this client again. I feel my decision was well founded as I was then plagued by phone calls from this man and they only stopped when I asked my husband to tell him I was not available to massage him. This has not stopped me taking on male clients but I am more aware and will go by my instincts. If, for any reason, if feel uncomfortable with a client I will choose not to see them again. Fortunately in ten years this has only happened once. It was a learning curve for me.

...surprisingly the highest viewed topic on this type of subject....so thought it would be interesting to give my latest views 😉

Usually these are the highest viewed topics, because every time someone makes a post the moderating team all jump in to check people are posting within the forum rules and rules of decency etc. 😉

Hi Sue,

I'm glad you enjoyed the Lomi Lomi massage and were brave enought to take you clothes off. I also offer people the choice of keeping underwear on but do point out that it does detract from the flow of the massage. The 'loin cloth' used in Lomi Lomi is enough to preserve modesty while allowing the practitioner access to the whole body.

I fully support the view that a therapist has the right to refuse to treat any client that they feel 'uncomfortable' with. I only wish clients were more willing to take a therapists views into consideration. The stories I hear from the ladies I have the privaledge of sharing swaps with makes me about the bedgering they get for 'extras' etc sometimes makes me dispair of my fellow males.

Is this just a British problem or do therapists in other contries have the same issues? Is nudity on the massage table more accepted in other countries? Maybe some of our overseas colleagues would like to throw some light on the subject.

Other Countries

From the US here - and I'd have to say that it is more commonly accepted to be nude during a massage here. But draped in most cases although it is not uncommon, after developing a level of trust with a therapist to not be draped - but not as common. That is, unless one is at a clothing optional resort where naturist massages are the norm.

Thanks for your input stevhoff. Much appreciated.

I have a good piece of advice for women receiving the 'can you please massage me naked because [some weak excuse about why the guy needs to be totally naked]' ... just reply pleasantly, that of course that can be arranged, but for obvious reasons, the therapist will be a heterosexual male. I would guess that 90% of those ever so genuine (not) enquiries would miraculously & very suddenly disappear 😉

That phrase totally nips the problem in the bud doesn't it! I have known other therapists who have had regular calls from men who have asked 'what other services are offered'. I wonder if attractive male therapists ever get unusual requests or innapropriate behaviour from women?

BTW what is wet fish?

I wonder if attractive male therapists ever get unusual requests or innapropriate behaviour from women?

Only a couple of times over many years. One asked if it was a genuine full body massage, when i asked why she replied " I love my breasts massaged"

The other one was obviously sexually enjoying the massage and asked me if I would offer an extra service, she then went further by slipping her hands between my legs.

I obviously declined both.

What gets me wondering is why some supposedly bona fide "naturist" therapists charge a LOT for the privilege? Surely that's going against all this altruistic stuff that we read about.

I wonder if attractive male therapists ever get unusual requests or innapropriate behaviour from women?

It happens though not nearly as often as male clients asking male massage therapists for unusual/inappropriate requests. I don't think 'attractive' comes into it that often, they're just looking for a service, and males seem to be quite overt about it when they think it is possible, if they are looking for that type of thing. I think females look for that type of thing in that setting much less often and if they do, they are usually move covert about it and it's often missed. I think most males are looking for just a massage, probably about 95% of them, and it's about 99% of females that are just looking for a massage, that's just a lot more males than females looking for more than a massage.

BTW what is wet fish?

That's my description of being hit by a saggy cold breast in another thread, slightly sweaty and at a cooler temperature than the hands, when it hit me it was about as disruptive to the flow of the massage as being 'hit with a wet fish'.

Oh dear Cola....not good! i could think of about 3 things a wet fish could be so that clarifies it thankyou! lol