Massage, undies or nude?

Just few thoughts and questions

What is unethical about nudity ?
...

And just another question - is massage a sensual experience ?

I think this is the crux of the issue perhaps concerning nudity in massage - I personally do think massage can be 'sensual' if you use the dictionary definition 'of or pertaining to the senses or physical sensation;' or 'arousing or exciting the senses or appetites.' It does stimulate the senses, which to my mind makes it a sensual experience (of the senses)... however, I wonder what others think and also how often 'sensual' is equated with 'sexual'? I know this is the main issue my boyfriend has with me training as a massage therapist - he sees sensuality as closely tied up to sexuality, whereas I can quite happily separate and define between the two.

I don't think nudity in itself is unethical... i think ideally it should be up to the client how they wish to receive massage (undies or nude). Perhaps insisting a client goes nude might be unethical if they don't feel comfortable with it.

Of course massage is a sensual experience but a lot of people, unfortunately, do not differenciate between sensual and sexual. Is this link the reason why a lot of people have a strong preference for the gender of their therapist?

I personally can't understand why any therapist would insist on their client wearing underwear or massaging glutes through a towel. If they do that, why not keep the client clothed and do the whole massage through clothes?

I think this could be why many people have strong preferences about the gender of their therapist - I know very few men (except you open-minded folks on here maybe) who would be happy to have a whole body massage given by another man! I often hear them say 'I wouldn't want another man touching me all over' etc... the only reason I can see as to why men feel uncomfortable with this is that they equate the sensuality with sexuality (unless anyone has any other ideas?).

I've heard the same things said by people attending sexual health examinations at GUM clinics though... The men I know of usually prefer a woman to examine them, whereas most women I know are either not bothered, or would prefer another female to examine them. This is just a generalisation based on my own experience though, but I do think it's interesting.

I know very few men (except you open-minded folks on here maybe) who would be happy to have a whole body massage given by another man! I often hear them say 'I wouldn't want another man touching me all over' etc...

Funny you should say that. Although I have, of course, had plenty of men say exactly that to me, it occurred to me last night that a growing proportion of my massage clients are now men.

Maybe enlightenment is spreading..?

My friends a massage therapist, and she says that more men are actually choosing male therapists to massage them, because they have a much firmer hold.
I prefer female myself but would not dismiss using a male therapist.:045:

I think this could be why many people have strong preferences about the gender of their therapist - I know very few men (except you open-minded folks on here maybe) who would be happy to have a whole body massage given by another man! I often hear them say 'I wouldn't want another man touching me all over' etc...

"Professional sports people do not have issues with the gender of their therapist" is the arguement I use for that one.

My friends a massage therapist, and she says that more men are actually choosing male therapists to massage them, because they have a much firmer hold.

I had a massage swap with a lady at the weekend and she left me feeling bruised and quite sore so again gender is not the issue. An 8 stone female using her body weight correctly should be able to provide enough pressure to suit all occassions.

"Professional sports people do not have issues with the gender of their therapist" is the arguement I use for that one.

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That's great! I'll have to remember that line next time I get those comments from the guys! You are right of course, it really should not matter.

I am male and would only go to a female therapist. I've had a lot of personal health issues for a long time with fatigue, lightheadedness, headaches, etc... Aside from the truth that a male therapist that was gay would leave me more than a little creeped out, the main thing is that men are trained to be tough and to kind of grin and bear it. So while I am going though difficult physical problems, I guess I just feel more comfortable whining or venting about my physical problems to a female rather than to another male. Men aren't brought up to get emotional around other males so I just have a difficult time with that and wouldn't relax during the massage..

I am male and would only go to a female therapist. I've had a lot of personal health issues for a long time with fatigue, lightheadedness, headaches, etc... Aside from the truth that a male therapist that was gay would leave me more than a little creeped out, the main thing is that men are trained to be tough and to kind of grin and bear it. So while I am going though difficult physical problems, I guess I just feel more comfortable whining or venting about my physical problems to a female rather than to another male. Men aren't brought up to get emotional around other males so I just have a difficult time with that and wouldn't relax during the massage..

It's sad that men feel they can't be massaged by men, must be a very British thing.

I felt reserved about massaging my first male, but very soon I realised doing a massage is doing a massage and gender should have nothing to do with it. As for the sexuality of the person giving or receiving a massage, that should never be an issue either.

Myarka.

It's sad that men feel they can't be massaged by men, must be a very British thing.

I felt reserved about massaging my first male, but very soon I realised doing a massage is doing a massage and gender should have nothing to do with it. As for the sexuality of the person giving or receiving a massage, that should never be an issue either.

Myarka.

Exactly!!!

Ace88, that's quite interesting, I'd never really thought of the emotional/communications side of things being a reason why men might be more comfortable with a female therapist.

I personally still think it should not matter either way... the perceptions you have of men as 'trained to be tough' are a bit of a gender stereotype, there are lots of men who can be very sympathetic, soft and caring, especially I'd imagine in the business of therapies (similarly, there are lots of women out there who can be quite tough and scary!). I guess it just comes down to finding a therapist you are comfortable with, if you generally feel more comfortable with female therapists then I guess that's up to you as a client to decide.

Aside from the truth that a male therapist that was gay would leave me more than a little creeped out.

While I have to admire your honesty, ace88, if you follow the logic of our post, then women should avoid being massaged by other women in case they are gay, men should avoid being massaged by women in case they are heterosexual, and women should avoid being massaged by men for the same reason.

The fact is, going for a massage is not supposed to be a sexual experience, any more than going to the doctor or going to the hairdresser. So the sexual orientation of the practitioner shouldn't be an issue, surely?

While I have to admire your honesty, ace88, if you follow the logic of our post, then women should avoid being massaged by other women in case they are gay, men should avoid being massaged by women in case they are heterosexual, and women should avoid being massaged by men for the same reason.

The fact is, going for a massage is not supposed to be a sexual experience, any more than going to the doctor or going to the hairdresser. So the sexual orientation of the practitioner shouldn't be an issue, surely?

There are people who have issues with the sex of the therapist for all different reasons. Perhaps they were sexually abused in the past, perhaps they believe being gay is not moral, perhaps their mother of father left them as a child, perhaps they had a bad doctor from one or the other sex, perhaps their religion doesn't allow for the opposite sex....I don't think it has to do with whether the massage is sexual or not. And I think wasting time trying to convert them can be somewhat senseless. If they can't relax during the massage, doesnt' that defeat the point of it? I mean, some people want to get over these fears, but I'm perfectly happy staying with female therapists and don't feel the need to ever have a male therapist (not that they aren't as good as female ones). Many people just have no desire to be converted. It's nothing personal with me against male therapists..

To give you an example, I've had some older male doctors who were not very sympathetic to depressing physical problems I've had for 9 years. Yet when I went to a few female massage therapists, they were more than happy to listen and feel empathy for me and my problems....it made me actually want to stick with female doctors/massage therapists because of my bad experiences with several male doctors who seemed like they could have cared less and were in a rush to get me out of there...

nude massage

as a male who enjoys having a massage and using sauna and steam rooms in this country and abroad .
when ever giving the chance to be nude when receving the massage , i take it .
abroad in some countrys it quite easy to find a massuers/masssuese , who is willing to allow you to receved the massage nude and un draped , whilst some allow you to be nude but draped .
having uses saunas / steam rooms in this country and abroad ,it quite hard now days to find single sex saunas where swimwear is a option . most places instead you wear shorts ,evan low it same sex saunas ,
yet when abroad , when in germany , steam / saunas are mixs sexs , male / females togeather and the rule is no swim wear .
it not a promlen there and enjoyable to enjoy a steam whilst naked .
can not under stand why it such a big issue in uk ?:confused:
would like to carry on reading other people feelings on the above subjects ,
allow to go naked in same sex or mix saunas/steam and enjoy massages whilst nude.

Nude aint rude

I've had probaly 100's of massages, of every possible type. I'd 100% certain in my belief that a good massage requires you to be nude, without towels. I've had a few unfortunate towels manipulators, where the massage ends above the knee, and no lower than the hips, and it they were basicaly rubbish. I judge a good massage if I start to nod of to sleep, which is what happens if the massage flows all over the body without interuption. I've done a practical massage course, so I've also experience of being on the other side of the fence, and towels just get in the way, and ruin the flow of the massage. I like to vary my strokes and style, as it stops me and the client from getting bored. Can any of the 'preserving your modesty' exponents explain how that incorporate the long flowing efflurage strokes that my clients love, totaly impossible with towels in the way. I've not adopted the phrase 'Magic Fingers' in my massage intro for nothing !! Bob

Being Dutch I know what you mean Steve68, when you talk about mixed sauna's etc: I love spa's/sauna's and used to go fairly regularly back in the Netherlands, but here you have to wear a swimsuit which totally ruins the experience. So I haven't bothered anymore. I also used to go to naturist campsites when I was young, and having a very British partner now, I have to admit I do miss those holidays!

Generally people in the UK seem to struggle a bit more with nakedness still than most other countries. I think it doesn't help that massage is still very much associated with (paid) sex here, whereas in many other countries a massage is a massage and prostitution is an entirely different thing altogether.

I prefer being naked when being massaged myself, and draping etc depends on the therapist. If I feel comfortable with someone after a couple of sessions, I don't mind when the draping gets a bit careless and things pop out. And I don't mind getting dressed/undressed with the therapist in the room.

I don't necessarily feel the need to have the drape removed altogether though during the massage. I find it quite comforting and cosy to have something (partially) covering me, and I also get cold quite quickly. I don't think it interrrupts with the flow: for me it's the energetic connection that matters most, so as long as that's still there I don't mind if the physical connection stops a second to adjust a drape or get some more oil.

As to when I'm massaging clients (I have also posted in one of the mentioned threads before): I do struggle a little bit with this. No problem at all for me if people want to take everything off or keep some clothes on: most of my clients keep their underwear on which is fine, although I do always say it's entirely up to them what they want to keep on and take off. I leave the room, leaving them with table and drape, and they let me know when they are ready and under the drape, upon which I come back in the room. Personally I think I prefer clients taking everything off, as it's just easier to get access to lumbar region & glutes etc.

But I do (in principle) cover the client with a sheet (partially). That is not because I would be uncomfortable with a client's nakedness, like someone said earlier: if you've seen one of them you've seen them all. But it's more that I worry about the client's intentions when they ask about the possibility of the drape being removed.

Having had quite a few "dodgy" male clients phoning up when appointments still had to be booked via my mobile, and a couple who turned up and seemed to enjoy the massage a bit more than I intended them to so to say, I have become very careful.

In literally 100% of the cases (up to now) it's been men who ask me about whether the drapes can be removed, often waving the flag of naturism, and I can't always tell how genuine they are. So for my own comfort, I tell them I use a drape. If they then make a huge fuss about that, and wont' accept this, even though they say they're coming in because of a bad back or calf muscle, than in most cases I conclude that it's probably because they are after a different experience.

It's possible that by doing that I occasionally put people off or turn people away who are really just after an undraped massage because of better flow etc, which is a shame of course. (Although I would maybe expect a client like that to appreciate my feelings, especially if they're a male client and we haven't met, and maybe agree to try a session anyway, can always discuss again later etc.)

But at least it means I'm comfortable with the clients I do get, which means my massage is better. I use a flat sheet as a drape, which is very "adjustable", much more than towels, so you can easily mark off certain bits as out of bounds, whilst still having access to top of thighs etc.

You never know, now that I work as part of a clinic instead of on my own, the clientele seems to change a bit. I guess people having to book through reception filters out most of the "dodgy clients". So perhaps that after a period of "good clients" I might start to let my guard down a bit more again and be more open to things like undraped massage, especially with recurring clients.

As to being naked myself whilst treating: I find this whole naturist massage thing a quite interesting topic: having a naturist background myself, I had never considered naturist massage as part of this lifestyle. I suppose it can be though, and it would make sense in a naturist environment like a club or a holiday resort, for a therapist to also undress. But in the context of a health clinic in the middle of town, I don't see the need at all for the therapist to be naked: again if someone would ask me to take off my clothes whilst massaging them, because they are naturist, I would ask them to find someone else: again because in most cases they will be after a more sensual/sexual experience than I'm willing to offer at this point.

and a couple who turned up and seemed to enjoy the massage a bit more than I intended them to so to say, I have become very careful.

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This is what my OH worries about! First time I gave him a leg massage he said it turned him on quite a bit, so he worries that when I massage other people I might be inadvertently arousing them too! I've tried explaining that men can get a physiological reaction but it doesn't necessarily mean anything and some guys would probably find it a little embarrassing even.

I do get where Pinky is coming from regarding use of drapes, if I was giving a massage to someone I'd never met before and didn't know I'd be cautious about removing drapes too, in case anyone got the wrong idea... naked under drapes I think is ok though as it's easier to get to lumbar and glutes as mentioned above.

I was just curious about what this couple got up to...? Couldn't they wait to get home? I recently massaged a married couple and while he was in the bathroom after his massage, she told me she wanted me to include the glutes. As he wasn't there to hear this request, I was a bit worried when I got round to doing them (he hadn't asked for them), but he was fast asleep anyway, as it turned out...

When I said "a couple" I meant 2 or 3 different male clients on different occasions booking a full-body massage, who not just had erections, which of course can happen inadvertently sometimes, but also who's breathing was suggesting they were experiencing the massage in a sexual way, and being a bit too helpful moving the sheet etc. One of them even left a wet patch in my sheet once after I had left the room for him to get dressed! So on these occasions I was clearly uncomfortable with the situation and glad there was still a drape covering certain bits at least. 😀 Because of these experiences I wouldn't agree to an undraped massage, especially not a first session with a new male client.

I did actually get an equiry once from a couple (man & woman) who wanted naked & undraped massage with the other one watching, as they were "quite open and into that kind of thing". ! I turned them away too...

When I said "a couple" I meant 2 or 3 different male clients

Oh I see! 😀 I completely misread that!

I know what you mean about familiarity though. I had a couple of new clients this week and it occurred to me that as I get to know people, I gradually become less conscientious about covering them up. Though even with the new ones, male or female, I'm certainly not as uptight with the draping as we were forced to be by the college where we trained. As I think somebody said, what's the point in going for a "full body" massage where you hardly get massaged above the knee?

have read the post about going nude in saunas and being massages nude .
when i go to the gym , we have a sauna in the change room , most english males , will wear a swim suit in there or shorts .
then come out take shorts off and shower nude and walk out to the change room naked ?? but wont go naked in sauna .
as for the subject of receving massage nude ,
or very little clothers on .
when sports person recieved massgages for injuries,
do you think there are covered by towels . think not .
but can not see why the person given the massages as to be nude . no way .
but do agreed with early comments . when abroad going nude in sauna / steams is the done thing and it no big deal , single sex or mix .
most british do have a hang up about the naked body .
😀

most british do have a hang up about the naked body .
😀

I'm not sure it's just the Brits that are "hung up" about nudity, and I'm fairly sure we're not in a minority, especially when it comes to massaging members of the opposite sex.

Every culture is different and each culture has it's own values as far as personal space and nudity is concerned. Therefore we shouldn't say someone is "hung up" because their value system prohibits nudity.

The most important thing is that the massage is carried out professionally and within the appropriate codes of practice.

Myarka.

when i said , most british have a promlen with the naked body .
i menton , if other people would like to go nude in sauna / steam rooms there should be allow to . manly when same sex .
that where i think the british have a promlen . not allow the chance to go nude in same sex sauna / steam
fully understand and accept people belive and choices .everone should have own space .
as for part of nude when receving massage that again should be people own choice and can not see why people would want the person giving the massage to be nude , there is no need or reason for it .

Indeed there is no reason why the giver of the massage should also be nude, unless you believe that it improves the experience by introducing a sense of equality to it.
If the massage is carried out in a naturist environment where both parties are comfortable then it must be beneficial.The problem is when one or more parties regard such situations in a sexual manner which can cause problems.
A naturist massage can also be more beneficial in a mental way as well as helping one physically ie by freeing one of ones inhibitions .This however adds a new dimension to the treatment and may be more relevant to a sexual therapy forum .

Hi Ray,

Happy Christmas to you.

While I understand what you're saying, I think the brits are far too diverse now to be characterised in this way, certainly in the South East.

But the problem I find with this thread is that the ideal of nudity is taking away from the theraputic application of holistic massage. Therefore to me, it doesn't matter if a client is nude or not, but what does matter is that the massage delivered meets the clients theraputic needs.

Myarka

Back to my pink prosecco, hic.

Massage - Undies or Nude ?

This is the old question and has many slants to it !!
I have been enjoying massages for many years now, and therapists and european countries differ.
I have jus returned from a New Year break in Cheshire where the Spa group did not do full Body Massages on Males !! Other,earlier comments in these pages suggests that Spas are the ones usually to say"undress to what you are most comfortable with " This is not my experience - unless you are in Spain, Portugal or Germany (where I have had treatments), and there they expect you to "go without ".
My regular therapist of 6 years, told me after about 6 sessions that if I felt more comfortable without underwear - that would be ok. Needless to say I have not worn them since.(covered with towels though).
The question of sensual or sexual keeps coming up. Genuine treatments can be sensual - that is ok, but they are not sexual, even when I have had them with both parties naked and uncovered - I think that takes away inhibitions and both parties are relaxed.
I have never had an embarrasing moment !
Well thats my thoughts.

Peace & Light to all.

i just don't see the need or point in the therapist being naked. The therapist is not being massaged ???

i am trained in holistic massage and always advise the client to take everything off except there pants as that is how i was trained. i will move move the towel and pants down to get in at the base of the back and work on the glutes though the towel. I am also trained in lomi lomi hawaiian massage where i was trained to remove everything as this massage is based on long flowing strokes from the foot up the leg and full side of the body up the arm to the hand.

i never really thaught about the client being more comfortable without their undies maybe i can mention to my regulars.

But personally speaking i do not like to be naked. loose fiiting pants is good enough for me, i have had work done on my glutes though the towel and thats just fine by me.

Unfortunately teaching people to massage through towels is a very bad teaching practise as it severely restricts the sensitivity of the therapist to what soft tissue need working etc.

One of the reasons we use a lubricant, is it actually increase the sensations we feel through our hands as we massage and allows us to easily asses which muscles need relaxing and which need toning.

I really don't know how they expect therapists to be able to isolate muscles and select the correct insertions and origins to work with through a towel??

Hi Paul

Interesting comments on towels restricting sensations, but Shiatsu, Tuina and Thai therapists work through clothing. They are still "feel" changes in soft tissue. May be we just get used to the medium we work with.

Best Wishes

RP