Vtct level 3???

Qualification

VTCT are a recognised provider and offer excellent training. Yes it can be very confusing as there are other qualifications that do offer a similar level. There is now regulations following standards taught and what you will cover.
With this being taught by a college no doubt they will explain what this qualification involves.
good luck with the course and I am sure you will enjoy it.
🙂

VTCT are a recognised provider and offer excellent training. Yes it can be very confusing as there are other qualifications that do offer a similar level. There is now regulations following standards taught and what you will cover.
With this being taught by a college no doubt they will explain what this qualification involves.
good luck with the course and I am sure you will enjoy it.
🙂

Hi Reviveme,
VTCT do not offer training they offer qualifications. There are regulations, however, I have an email from VTCT to say that they do not police the standards of delivery at each training centre, therefore, if you have a rubbish training provider, unfortunately there isnt a lot you can do about it.

I work with quite a few colleges offering different qualifications and believe me, the standards vary dramatically.

Unfortunately Damo88, I have no knowledge of this college so cannot comment on it.

Level 3 will give you a very basic foundation in sports massage, however, it will not allow you to work with injured tissue - so I question its usefulness apart from as a stepping stone to higher level qualifications, most of which you can go straight onto anyway.

Ditto 'most' of STs comments
Ie VTCT are an awarding organisation NOT a training provider. Therefore their (supposed) function is to check the quality of the learner 'training experience' and ensure the training provider is OFqual compliant and issue certification (only if these conditions are met)

I also very strongly that the 'standard' of VTCT approved training providers is variable to say the least

Where I would (slightly) disagree with ST is the value of VTCT level 3 (if it is taught correctly!)

If you 'only' wish to work at sports clubs / events providing pre/ post massage to athletes sports persons etc, the skills are more than sufficient (since you will only be dealing with non-pathological tissue). However should you wish to start a clinic, provide advice/ treat injuries/ dysfunction then a more advance course would be necessary ( note I have avoided using the term 'level 4' because the many courses marketed at level 4 ( and above) are not as detailed as a good 'level 3' (esp. those taught before 2010)

Good luck with your course though

Ditto 'most' of STs comments
Ie VTCT are an awarding organisation NOT a training provider. Therefore their (supposed) function is to check the quality of the learner 'training experience' and ensure the training provider is OFqual compliant and issue certification (only if these conditions are met)

I also very strongly that the 'standard' of VTCT approved training providers is variable to say the least

Where I would (slightly) disagree with ST is the value of VTCT level 3 (if it is taught correctly!)

If you 'only' wish to work at sports clubs / events providing pre/ post massage to athletes sports persons etc, the skills are more than sufficient (since you will only be dealing with non-pathological tissue). However should you wish to start a clinic, provide advice/ treat injuries/ dysfunction then a more advance course would be necessary ( note I have avoided using the term 'level 4' because the many courses marketed at level 4 ( and above) are not as detailed as a good 'level 3' (esp. those taught before 2010)

Good luck with your course though

Hi DFNU,
Hope you are well. I think we both know that the new raft of level 4 quals were pretty much the old level 3 and I think it is wrong that they took away the ability to work on injured tissue at level 3.

The reason I question it's usefullness is this, having been involved with lots of litigation and insurance claim investigations over the past 5 years (not involving my own graduates thankfully) I know that the qualification is picked to bits and scrutinised. My issue is that if someone works on anyone that has any kind of pathology (and believe me they would open up the definition to cover everything) and a claim was made, even if they were only offering a general massage, then the insurers would probably invalidate their cover, leaving them to face the costs themselves. This is happening.

Insurance companies are very happy to take the money, but we all know how they don't like to pay out.

In a recent one I was involved with, the damages were into 6 figures. There was also a recent one that involved a therapist causing folliculitis. The outcome was a £6k payout (which I believe the insurance company paid for).

It is a shame that this is coming to our industry, but its a fact of life that we all have to be aware of.

Insurance companies are now aware of what level 3 sports massage actually allows, I only hope that we don't have raft of invalidated policies leading to some very unhappy therapists.

(On a quick note, relating to ao's and quality so not too far off topic, on another forum someone talking about reps and skills active and their amazing quality assurance policies and procedures, I almost choked, good job Paul has very good diplomatic skills! Lol)

Vctc

Thank you for your valued information. I was considering doing a course at my local college in Leigh. I wanted to do Indian Head massage.

(On a quick note, relating to ao's and quality so not too far off topic, on another forum someone talking about reps and skills active and their amazing quality assurance policies and procedures, I almost choked, good job Paul has very good diplomatic skills! Lol)

Just saw it (MS?) 😮 and commented 😉

re litigation
Why haven't O**al / SSCs (who gave their approval) been brought to task for allowing AOs to cherry pick the NOS when writing the qualification? Why is there more than one level for a practitioner? etc. etc

After all its they who opened Pandora's box, so surely its they who should be held to account?
What exactly is non-pathological tissue anyway?

If pathology is the study of disease, it certainly is not injuries
If pathology is the study of dis ease, its everybody! (unless someone can show me someone who is perfect in every way)

Just saw it (MS?) 😮 and commented 😉

re litigation
Why haven't O**al / SSCs (who gave their approval) been brought to task for allowing AOs to cherry pick the NOS when writing the qualification? Why is there more than one level for a practitioner? etc. etc

After all its they who opened Pandora's box, so surely its they who should be held to account?
What exactly is non-pathological tissue anyway?

If pathology is the study of disease, it certainly is not injuries
If pathology is the study of dis ease, its everybody! (unless someone can show me someone who is perfect in every way)

Totally agree on all your points, and on the last one, why it is even mentioned bewilders me, it leaves the therapist wide open.

I have said it before, there should be one level or standard, call it what you like, delivered exactly the same across the country.

Just saw it (MS?) 😮 and commented 😉

Its been quite heavily censored though :rolleyes: ie: Skills Active washing their hands of "it" when challenged (perhaps I shouldn't have named names !)

AOs now pay a (not inconsiderable) fee to SSCs as part of their SLA and the *** really is going to hit the fan if they don't start doing something to earn their crust

123

Just saw it (MS?) 😮 and commented 😉

re litigation
Why haven't O**al / SSCs (who gave their approval) been brought to task for allowing AOs to cherry pick the NOS when writing the qualification? Why is there more than one level for a practitioner? etc. etc

After all its they who opened Pandora's box, so surely its they who should be held to account?
What exactly is non-pathological tissue anyway?

If pathology is the study of disease, it certainly is not injuries
If pathology is the study of dis ease, its everybody! (unless someone can show me someone who is perfect in every way)

hi guys, been offline for sometime but thought I would comment after reading this thread

I've spent the day at a validation meeting and it was argued by the scientific bods that even post event treatment takes place on pathological tissue, again its down to what constitutes "pathological tissue", the original AO descriptors would make an interesting read.....................

From the NOS which V*C* cherry picked to develop the QCF level 3 (and everyone else had to follow because Ofqual didn't challenge it)

D520 Plan, apply and evaluate massage methods

This unit is about preparing for and applying the following massage methods to non-pathological tissue:
 effleurage
 petrissage
 tapôtement
 vibration
Massage applies to all relevant areas of the body.

Context specific
In sport and active leisure this unit could be used in the context of training and the pre-, inter and post sport/activity phases, including pre- and post-travel. :rolleyes: **

and
ditto level 4

D520 Plan, apply and evaluate massage methods to prevent and manage injury

Introduction

Summary
This unit is about preparing for and applying the following massage methods:
 effleurage
 petrissage
 tapôtement
 vibration
 compressions
 friction
 passive stretching

Massage may be applied in the following contexts:
 injury management – post acute phase
 injury prevention
 pre-existing conditions/disease processes (therapeutic and remedial)

Interestingly (sic) **
This bit is the same

Context specific
In the sport and active leisure context massage can be applied to training and the pre-, inter and post sport/activity phase including pre- and post-travel.

hi guys, been offline for sometime but thought I would comment after reading this thread

I've spent the day at a validation meeting and it was argued by the scientific bods that even post event treatment takes place on pathological tissue, again its down to what constitutes "pathological tissue", the original AO descriptors would make an interesting read.....................

This sounds very worrying
Surely this means that since the level 3 is only mapped to D520 and "non-pathological tissue", by implication, does not exist/ cannot be defined; it is not "fit for purpose" and leaves learners wide open to litigation claims since they have no defined scope of practice?

This sounds very worrying
Surely this means that since the level 3 is only mapped to D520 and "non-pathological tissue", by implication, does not exist/ cannot be defined; it is not "fit for purpose" and leaves learners wide open to litigation claims since they have no defined scope of practice?

it has started to come to the attention of insurance suppliers, I'm concerned that some TPs/ AOs are mis-selling sports massage (L3) as a means to work on pathological tissues. Again it seems to be a result of "my course is a higher number than your course" which resulted in dumbing down of the original standard rather than increasing standards to meet other NOS

this then brings into the mix, when was the L3 issued and to which standard was it mapped, this would define the extent of the remit of the course graduate

your thoughts on a postage stamp please !

Don't know about you guys but I'm very very tired of all this nonsense and losing patience rapidly! There always seems to be a question mark looming over something. Its an absolute joke and a completely farcical situation.

The main problem with the sports massage/therapy/soft tissue industry, as the old saying goes 'Too many chiefs' who basically can't agree on anything! It just goes around and around in circles. Highly annoying. Rant over.:mad:

it has started to come to the attention of insurance suppliers, I'm concerned that some TPs/ AOs are mis-selling sports massage (L3) as a means to work on pathological tissues. Again it seems to be a result of "my course is a higher number than your course" which resulted in dumbing down of the original standard rather than increasing standards to meet other NOS

this then brings into the mix, when was the L3 issued and to which standard was it mapped, this would define the extent of the remit of the course graduate

your thoughts on a postage stamp please !

Take a bit more than a postage stamp. I could write an book on the subject!

With any luck the recent "Richard review" will get rid of (at least shake up) Ofqual / SSCs and we'll finally get some standards which are not only set but actually enforced

Don't know about you guys but I'm very very tired of all this nonsense and losing patience rapidly! There always seems to be a question mark looming over something. Its an absolute joke and a completely farcical situation.

The main problem with the sports massage/therapy/soft tissue industry, as the old saying goes 'Too many chiefs' who basically can't agree on anything! It just goes around and around in circles. Highly annoying. Rant over.:mad:

It's not so much the "agreement" of "those at the top" it's the AOs who allow providers to abuse the system (to maximise profits) and Ofqual who do what exactly?