Dear Hp ers
Please could someone give me some advice as to whether youwould treat the following patient. Please excuse me if I seem abrupt but will try and put this in as few words as possible and give the key points.
Jan 2004 Patient diagnosed with breast cancer (was also present in the lymph glands under the arm) and opted to treat it 'alternatively' (against doctors advice which was 6 months chemo, then mastectomy, possibly followed by radiotherapy)
All through 2004 and 2005 patient tried various therapies including vit B infusions, heat treatment, among lots of other things.
Jan 2006 patient started to complain of severe shoulder / arm pain on the same side as the original breast tumour. Sep 2006 the pain is excrutiating in the arm, shoulder, and has no feeling or movement in the hand. Also on the shoulder and under the arm open sores have appeared and been there for quite a few months now.
The patient consulted a chiropractor a couple of weeks back and he did spinal and arm, shoulder x rays. He has told her that there is no cancer in her bones and the pain and trouble is all being caused by an old injury (there are a lot more symptoms besides this and i will elaborate if anyone wants to know).
He has 'prescribed' a treatment three times a week, initially, at £30 a time, which hurts her so much she cries during treatment.
Bearing in mind that this patient has not seen a GP or consultant since the original diagnosis, would you feel happy to treat as a chiropractor. None of us know if the pain she is experiencing is in any way linked to the cancer or not.
I would really appreciate anyones views on this.
Many many thanks
In love and light
Bluebelle xx
RE: Can this be right medically / ethically ?
Hi Bluebelle,
If 'alternative' treatments have not worked my advice would be to go back to the doctor, conventional medicine is not a bad thing and can work wonders when used with complementary as opposed 'alternative' treatments.
Did the patient sign a disclaimer for the chiropractic (not sure if this is the right term)treatments? I have no experience of the treatment but if the pain is so bad it makes the patient cry I would question the wisdom of carrying it out.
Just my thoughts:)
Samantha
RE: Can this be right medically / ethically ?
IMHO
Go back to the Drs and have it checked out by someone who is an expert in cancer just in case and other specialists who have access to a wider range of tests than just x-ray.
Then based on that knowledge the person can make a decision about treatment be that alternative, complementary, orthodox or whatever the person wants - its the individuals choice, but I'm not convinced that the chiro can make a correct, reliable diagnosis in this case.
Good luck and my best wishes to the person concerned
FBx
RE: Can this be right medically / ethically ?
Hi Bluebelle,
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RE: Can this be right medically / ethically ?
I totally agree with the above comments.
Metastatic bone cancer is very strongly linked with breast cancer, and unless you know specifically what you are looking for, is not always detectable on x-ray. In fact, depending on the angle the x-ray was taken, it may not even show up at all. The best bet would be for your client to confirm the diagnosis - a consultant will see within 2 weeks of a GP referral, and can then order the relevant blood tests for tumour markers and if need be for bone scans.
Having said this, it is down to your client to decide which course of action they wish to follow, and as long as you get them to sign a consent form for treatment from you, to cover you legally, you should be fine.
Additionally most consultants whould be happy with 1. The patient making the decisions, and 2. complementary treatments.
I would then also question as to wether chiropractic is the appropriate therapy for this client, and if so, should she get a second opinion from another chiropractor. There is absolutely no reason for you client to be in pain duringa therapy.
RE: Can this be right medically / ethically ?
Many thanks for everyone's comments, if I can just clarify things a little, it might make it easier to understand why I am so dubious regarding any benefits of chiropractic (not sure if thats the right word) in this situation.
The person mentioned is not a client of mine, she is a close family member, although I have been giving reiki and reflexology , just to help with the anxiety if nothing else. The reason I said 'alternative' as opposed to complementary was because she has refused allconventional treatment so the complementary therapies have become her 'alternative'.
She refuses to have anything at all to do with hospitals, consultants, doctors etc. and wont even take any medication for pain relief.This is something that all the family are extremely unsure of, but we have to respect her wishes. She wont even admit that its possible that the cancer has spread.I suppose, if I'm totally honest, I feel that the chiropractor could be seeing pound signs instead of a whole person who desperately needs help, you only have to look at her to see that she is seriously ill, and really wanted to know if anyone else thought the same.
Many thanks again for everyones comments, I suppose its really just a case of supporting her in whatever she decides to do, and if she thinks that chiropractic treatments will help her then who am I to say any different.
In love and light
Bluebelle xx
RE: Can this be right medically / ethically ?
I am so sorry to read of this dreadful dilema, and I really think the chiropractor isn't doing the right thing by treating your friend.
The open soresare more than likely caused by metasteses - the spread of the cancer. I alsowatched helplessly asa family memberwent through this, and she, too, refused all conventional (orthodox??) medical intervention.(She was a doctors wife, with 3brothers who were GPs - shenever mentioned she had a lump......)However, when the pain became too much, and the smell of the open,supurating wound became overwhelming, she DID accept help at a hospice. Thehospicestaff were amazing, and she got the best care for thebrief time she was there.
Has anyone been in contact with the Macmillan organisation? They may be able to make recommendations to help make her more comfortable.
RE: Can this be right medically / ethically ?
Thanks for your thoughts Jabba, I guessed thats what the sores were.
As far as the Macmillan nurses are concerned, I'm in a really awkward position. She admits that her breast is cancerous and is determined to live with cancer not die from it. Until she admits to herself that it looks like the cancer has spread bringing it up in conversation is really hard, and I get the feeling that if we didit cause quite an amount of upset, and obviously this is the last thing we want. We all trying to keep a positive frame of mind but it really does not look good. I really think now that all we can do as a family is to keep giving the love and support and take one day at a time.
Hope I'm not going to get told off here for going off topic (being in the chiropractic forum not the cancer one), but I thought by putting it here I could get the opinion of a chiropractor which really would just back up my suspicions as to ethics regarding treatment. Not been on HP too long, dont want to get told off before I really start :-))
Many thanks again for your thoughts.
In love and light
Bluebelle xx
RE: Can this be right medically / ethically ?
Hi Bluebelle. As a chiropractor myself I would be extremely dubious about treating your relative without her first having undergone further medical examinations. You don't say how the current chiropractor arrived at their diagnosis so I can't comment upon that. They should have taken an extensive medical history and carried out both neurological and orthopaedic tests. However, there is always room for these tests to provide false positives or for that matter false negatives. You mention that your relative is pretty much in denial about her cancer does this make it likely that she would have neglected to fully inform the chiropractor ? Hasshe been offered any kind of counselling to help her come to terms with what is happening to her ? Maybe once she can find a way clear to accepting her illness then she can make a more informed choice about her treatment options.
RE: Can this be right medically / ethically ?
Bulebell,
Chiro treatments treat Chiro problems. Nerves from the spine to the organs are effected when a pinched nerve is involved. The Chiro is treating the spine and the related problems that stim from the spine is an added help.
My hubby who is a Chiro, treats many cancer patients. Many times acupuncture helps the nausia from the Chemo. The overall spine health is a contributer to healing.
Each Chiro is different and it really depends on what the Chiro has told this patient in the area of ethical.
Deb