Any doubt / question about Islam ?

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

Thank you Hal for your response.

I certainly did have it impressed upon me strongly that Egypt was not as civilised as Europe. Hence why my brother was very concerned about me travelling alone. However, I knew all would be fine and did my best to stop him worrying about me.

Divine Love

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

Dear Hal, You wrote:

"By the same token there are dangerous places to go where there are no muslims."

That's absolutely right. I've heard Columbia called the most dangerous nation on earth. Do forgive me as it may have nothing to do with Islam at all, but Afghanistan was the most dangerous place on earth I've ever been to - but it's just one nation among many. I was simply wondering. Goodness - the tales I could tell! A placid law-abiding Westerner had to kill two men (to save himself)and flee through the night and snow when brigands captured him there ... but I would not say they were Muslim: they were bandit nomads in fact.

May I share that one of the most amazing experiences, spiritually, I ever had was when I was invited to a small seminar in Coventry where a young (27) Imam was guest speaker to about 14 MA international students. When he entered the room the whole vibe changed. He was holiness incarnate, and one of the most unique people I ever met. He had a huge aura of purity, and given his age I took it as a great sign that he will be around a long time. He knew of whatever problems Islam seems to display and sought to put all things right. I can honestly say he was one of the most amazing people I ever met in my life.;)

V

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

Hi

I certainly did have it impressed upon me strongly that Egypt was not as civilised as Europe.

This comment reminds me of so many poor examples of European behaviour in history.Where people have decided in their judgement that certain societies and people are not, "civilised," and are barbarians etc and for that reason invaded their countries, took over, killed people who were different. because they were less civilised than us. yuck.

Eqypt had a great civilisation before many countires knew what one was..i am not certain whether it was pleasant or not.

But these days, Egypt is a great country, the people there are nice, kind, friendly and generous by nature and culture. Loads of Europens enjoy holidays there.

Sure, bad stuff has happned there..but how do you think the UK looks from a distance..all countries look bad from a distance don't they?

I think England is my favourite country..but I live here and have a great life here, but Egyptians probably feel the same..i expect iraqis do as well..apart from when they are being troubled.

Hal

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

Hi Hal,

Who is that a quote from? - or don't reply - as I don't recall reading it but I have one HP member blocked.

I don't know how one would exactly define "civilised" but I once spent 6 weeks in Egypt off the tourist track, and they were too nice. If I asked directions, in truth, at least 50 people would gather round, so I stopped doing it:D ... and I was in a personal retreat mode so spent all my time trying to avoid the over-friendly people. Going to a barber even led to him taking my photo to put in his window - "I cut an Englishman's hair". The only negative then in that country was the constant asking for money, but I don't blame them for that.

V xx

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

A couple of days later from me...

I just was reading that in Iraq, for instance, Suniis and Shiats mostly know very well that the attack on the mosque was not from either side, and they are desperately trying to keep peace together. (Though they have not agreed in fact for over a thousand years - a shame.) But the attack will have come from a 'third force' trying to create war between Muslims even beyond Iraq. This would be either the remains of Al Qaeda there or old cronies of Saddam. So that would certainly support your view that it isn't Islam at work, Hal.

A few posts back you also say, and I agree, that given great hardship, imposed by others, and then war and terrorism, unfortunately it is human nature to react.

The idea of 'Egypt not being as civilised as Europe' probably gets to the core here. It's just such a clash of different cultures. So different it is hard to compare. I have to say it is extremely hard for single women to get around without at least mild molestation in most Muslim countries as I've witnessed over and over. But then, Cairo doesn't have a hard inner-city culture of crack, cocaine, and heroin, so rife here now.

Comparisons are hard therefore, and we can't go political but IMO it shows again in the USA-Middle East divide, where none understand the other, or try.

This is why I'm interested in mysticism, or one reason why. You KNOW oneness with others and couldn't have a religious divide if people are mystics. In the shorter term, nations such as Turkey which are Muslim but are also democratic are IMO a great answer too.

V xxx

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

Hi Venetian,

yes, places like Turkey seem to be good...but I think places like Iraq have more than their fair share of troubles right now more because of politics. They have had a dictatorship and those create many troubles. Islam encourages and asks for democracy..so democracy is a muslim thing...dictatorship is disliked by Allah.

There is a quote that goes something along the lines of,...he who walks hand in hand with an aggressor has surely gone from the straight path...

So the sort of thing that we have seen there is not islam.

I am not sure that iraqis are always especially religious or fundementalist but have had other troubles..but those sorts of issues do seem to help to turn people extra religious or strong on certain things.

I have to say it is extremely hard for single women to get around without at least mild molestation in most Muslim countries as I've witnessed over and over

I have not had that trouble myself..and nope, i do not necessarily go around looking a particular way..i am a westerner and anyone can see that a mile off.

In fact I have always found men in such countries to be polite as they are here and often quite shy.

I think some people will always seek a divide..if religion wasn't the excuse it would be something else..shame.

We are all people after all,

hal

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

As for Islam not being violent in itself, Hal, it reminds me of a TV docu some time back. I really don't recall names or facts so this will be real inarticulate.;)It was a short series about how Christian fundamentalists are diametrically opposed to a new thing in Islam - not a part of Islam but inside it. Basically this 'bloke' - no time to research his name - is the actual 'father of al Qaeda'. He once lived in America and moved to Egypt where he turned against the regime and preached violence against democracy. Others followed him. It must have been in the 1980s or 70s that they were arrested, imprisoned, and - well that regime doesn't treat people well in prison.

This according to the TV docu was the beginning of al Qaeda, two people removedbefore bin Laden came along. So as you kinda say, the whole intent was violence, against peaceful Islam and the West too. It was a bit likesome extremist right-wing survivalist group in the USA, say. They might live in the USA but are not of it and oppose it.

I gotta say that where I travelled the problem to females was real. I had to travel with girls just so they could safely go anywhere. I think because the men out there had to wait so long for marriage - which would explain why a couple even made a play on me! Frustration. [:-]

V

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

Hello David,

It's interesting what you say about travelling with ladies in Muslim countries. When I was in Egypt last year, we ladies were advised to take a man with us when we went out, in order toprevent 'problems.' Iwas travelling alone, so accompanied my friend and her husbandwhen they went out. I soon began to realise that I was in no danger whatsoever, and took to going out alone. However, I always made sure I covered up from head to foot. I wasn't 'bothered' by men at all (a chance would've been a fine thing - some of thoseEgyptian chapsare pretty good-looking! Heh!) The frustration part of which you spoke, could also explain why our tourguides seemed to be 'up for it' a lot. They didn't come on to us ladies, not at all (forbidden) but there was definitely a sexual 'frisson' between myself and my tour guide, and at one stage it did get a bit 'physical' in private. Not that I minded the attention, but Assem told me that men and women in Egypt are forbidden from having sexual relations outside marriage, and the girls expect the boys to find the money to finance houses and furniture and big weddings, etc and this causes lots of pressure on the men, not least sexual pressure. I felt sorry for him, I really did. No, I did not disgrace myself or him, and we parted as friends.

I found that most men in Egypt were extremely interested in us, and what we had to say, especially about the uniting tenets of Islam to Christianity.

Love,
Patsy.

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

Hi Dana,

From my experiences in Egypt, I can honestly say that Islam and the strand of it practised there (Sunni) is the most gentle and accepting of any religion I have encountered.

It was a real pleasure to see people living their livesaccording totheir sacred words, and the enthusiasm for their beliefs was staggering. Truly an enlightening experience.

Love,
Patsy.
:D:D

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

Hi
could you tell me if a Muslim would consider donating an organ for transplant or would it be against their faith?

thanks

tigress

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

Hi all
I have just join the forum, My main interest is Mystical side of Islam.
I have found sufisium quite interest but can only agree with theirprincipals rather then daily practises.
Any thought raiki?

Thanks
Adam Zuberi

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

Hi Adam. Welcome to HP. I and a few others here have an outsider's interest in Sufism.

I'm intersted in mysticism in general. My contact with Sufism has TBH been just reading quite a few of the main books, but seemingly from different aspects, schools, and geographical areas of Sufism. Some of the anecdotal, autobiographical books are a simply wonderful spiritual and adventurous read!

Venetian

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

Hello Adam,

I too, am interested in the mystical side of Islam.

Patsy.

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

Hi Patsy,

I have read a few books on sufisum, by Idris Shah. I must say i found it interesting.

Kabala is the metaphysical side of Jewdesim. It also operate on more or less on the same principals.

I am also looking to observe Kabala and Sufisum close, without getting involve.

Other things with slightly interest me is numerolgy. Strange how prople born under certain number have specific characteristic.

Adam

RE: Any doubt / question about Islam ?

Hello Adam,

Yes, many people quite forget that Islam and Judaism are greatly spiritual religions; we only ever hear the bad sides of them. I don't know a lot about Sufism, but I do know that it is a deeply spiritual side of Islam, and its practitioners are extremely wise people. Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh introduced it into his many meditations in his ashram in Poona, years ago. Many peoplederived great benefit from it.

It is a shame that we only ever hear the bad sides of religious worship, never the good. Good luck with your seeking enlightenment.

Love,
Patsy.