This is woman's hour

This is Womans' hour

Here here!!
Shame on the society that still cover up their women citizens, do not allow them a voice and all in the name of Allah!
God is Love! just in case it needs saying again.

If we women in the west stick together and pray for change as a united front then change will come, all it requires is one small step.
Rather than focusing on war lets create.............. create enlightenment for those who are so unfortunately displaced.

To happier women and womens' days to come.

Love & blessings

Thanks Eliza!

But you know, it's not just within Islam that women are not treated as equals. i'm thinking specifically within religious practice here - within orthodox Judaism and Christianity there is often vitriolic opposition as seeing women as equal.

I found this interesting page today on the excellent Religious Tolerance website, but it only covers Judaism and Christianity:
Women as clergy. Religious sexism: when faith groups started and stopped ordaining women

As I belong to a church founded by a woman and where there is complete equality, I would love to hear from others here about their religions. I know that women are equal in the Society of Friends (the Quakers) and within Theosophy, but what about Hinduism, Sikhism, Zoarastrianism and Buddhism for instance? I know many of these religions have nuns, as do the Catholics, but they tend to be kept away from decision-making and leadership roles. I know Sunanda is a follower of Amma who is a Hindu woman guru, but S. how widespread are women like her?

I've also found this website The Sikh Woman where it states that Sikh women are equal and can be priests. I have to admit I've never met one, but that doesn't mean they don't exist! They also give their view of how other religions perceive the role of woman, but for instance, they haven't understood the generic term "man" from 1st Genesis, so I'm always wary of going to a third part for information.

Love and peace,

Judy

Looking forward to hearing from others!

I heard my name! Hey Judy, this is such an interesting topic. I often talk to my clients about the problems that the first ordained women priests experienced in St Pauls Cathedral when some of the male priests actually refused to work alongside them and made life difficult for them. Look at the numbers of CofE priests who have gone over to Rome, thereby creating the situation where Catholicism actually now has some married priests....So I too was going to say 'it's not just Islam'. And anyway, there are young Muslim women who are choosing to cover up. It's not always that their male family members are forcing them into it; they see the wearing of the burqa and jilbab as part of their identity, so it's a very complicated subject.
However, you asked me specifically about Hinduism and my guru Amma. Amma is by no means unique in India, there are many female saints. One who left her body in the 20th century but was highly revered was Anandamayi Ma and presently living are Karunamayi, Mother Meera (whom, coincidentally, I am going to see tomorrow!) and others perhaps known only locally such as those I wrote about in Tiruvannamalai, Tamil Nadu. Their male devotees offer love and obedience and seem not to question the unorthodox position they are in. Yet I know that in Amma's ashram she takes great care to segregate the young men and women who live there and is very conscious of not offending mainstream public opinion by allowing any hint of bad publicity such as obtained with Osho's ashram in Poona. Apparently, historically, there were female priests (pujarinis) in some of the temples in India and Amma has trained some of her female disciples as priests. They are totally accepted and welcomed in the temples - of Amma's own ashrams! Having said that, I remember one incident years ago in Amma's ashram: at the end of the aarti when a flame is waved in front of the focus of worship, usually camphor on a special metal appliance, it is then taken around the people watching the puja so they may take the flame to their eyes. I used to love these pujas, which took place in a small temple which had once been Amma's family cowshed and on one occasion the priest passed the flame to me to take around the 'audience'. (I felt really honoured.) But I was taken aback that one of the male devotees refused to take the flame from me, whether because I was female or a foreigner or both I never discovered.
In one of the small, but popular, Kali temples in Tiruvannamalai, when the priest (not a Brahmin) was not available, his mother - totally untrained - would perform the rituals for him and no one turned a hair. (I used to love to see it.) But the big temples where the priests are Brahmins would never countenance a woman having anything to do with the panoply of worship.
And of course there is a traditional code of dress for Indian women too: they never show their shoulders or their legs, although this is changing very quickly in the big cities as the young girls imitate the film stars and western fashions.
Not sure if that's what you wanted to know...but generally I think Hinduism is less rigid than Islam, and certainly the young are beginning to uncover their bodies - and even have boyfriends and girlfriends.

xxx

Thanks Sunanda,

Am I right in concluding from you that though female saints, like Amma are revered within the Hindu tradition and that at their own temples there may be women priests (sorry if I'm using the wrong word), in general, it is still a male domain? Certainly, from watching the many festivals on television (and visiting temples in India) I have only ever seen male priests.

Love and peace,

JudyRae

Absolutely right, Judy. Amma is the exception who proves the rule. I have never seen a female priest in any other Hindu temple, apart from the little roadside one in Tamil Nadu which I have mentioned.

xxx

Hi Sisters,

I guess I don't want to pretend that the Buddhist tradition is free from any form of misogyny. Why would it be such? The fact is the Buddha did ordain nuns and monks. Like many great teachers he was a social revolutionary. That is hardly a remarkable claim.

The fact is history is full of injustice committed in the name of religion. It's also full of injustice committed int he name of all sorts of things that aren't much connected with religion. Some of the worst crimes against humanity have been committed by Marxist inspired states.

What matters is warm heart that is not clouded by discrimination, self justification and judgment, and how we share that in our world today and for the future or mankind 😉

Norbu

Thanks brother Norbu! 😉

I keep going back to what Myarka said:

Without women's rights there's no equality, without equality there's no humanity.

I really feel that until women have equal rights in religion, we not only don't have humanity, but a fuller spirituality!

One friend who is a Sikh sent me this - it seems to echo what Sunanda and Norbu have said, but I'm pleased to see that in theory at least, women are considered equal:

Re: Sikh(-ism) - It preaches total equality (that's why all Sikh Temples should have four entrances), men, women, rich, poor, sikhs, non-sikhs and non-believers...
However, as in many faiths, theory and intent is one thing, the way people actually practice is another.
My mother for example led the prayers & hymns quite often at the local temple when I was small, but when she divorced my father - they ostricised her ...

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi Judy and everyone
I was reminded of this thread as I am at this moment listening to BBC Radio 4. Unfortunately I missed last week's opening programme in this series, but the second one is proving interesting. The series is entitled 'Banishing Eve' -

In the second part of her series charting the role of women in the founding of the Christian Church, historian Bettany Hughes continues to explore gender tension at the heart of the new religion.

The link is
and I feel it's most apposite to this thread. Catch up with the second programme on iplayer.

Thanks so much Sunanda,

I look forward to hearing it, but right now am off to bed after a weekend away!

The title reminded me of a CS article I loved (sadly no longer available on the internet) but it was called "I'm not Eve" -- women's place redefined"

Women were declared human by one vote.

Tradition has it that in the year 584 C.E., a council was held in Lyon, France, where the question of women's humanity was debated by church leaders. Sixty-three delegates were reportedly present; 32 voted yes and 31 voted no.

I have done a study of Eve and all the beliefs that have been accepted into human consciousness because of her moment of weakness in the Adam and Eve allegory, but it will have to wait.. :sleep:

Love and peace

Judy