'the truth' is out there...?

Firstly, Truth has nothing to do with rules. When one attains to the Truth, all rules become redundant. Truth liberates, not partially, but fully.. Maintenance of what? what commandments? They are all required until Truth is revealed. Beyond that they are utterly useless.
second, truth that needs maintenance is not truth, is another lie camouflaging as Truth.

Truth is self-sustained, does not need any props. It does not need your help ie one does not have to walk on a razor sharp path to maintain it... and the failure to do so resulting in a fall.
Another thing-no matter what religion, Truth is only found within. Then the boundaries of inner and outer disappear that is another thing...Infact religion( not only just established ones, but any belief system only serve to keep you from Truth)
After attaining to Truth, all religions make perfect sense, but that is a whole world away from being bound by any of the rules/commandments/path taught by religion.

Firstly, Truth has nothing to do with rules. When one attains to the Truth, all rules become redundant. Truth liberates, not partially, but fully.. Maintenance of what? what commandments? They are all required until Truth is revealed. Beyond that they are utterly useless.
second, truth that needs maintenance is not truth, is another lie camouflaging as Truth.

Truth is self-sustained, does not need any props. It does not need your help ie one does not have to walk on a razor sharp path to maintain it... and the failure to do so resulting in a fall.
Another thing-no matter what religion, Truth is only found within. Then the boundaries of inner and outer disappear that is another thing...Infact religion( not only just established ones, but any belief system only serve to keep you from Truth)
After attaining to Truth, all religions make perfect sense, but that is a whole world away from being bound by any of the rules/commandments/path taught by religion.

This sounds as if it is what you believe - fine, but it wasn't really what I was asking about. I was asking about how different religions present themselves to their followers in terms of either 'this is the truth', 'go and find the truth for yourself' or any other attitudes there may be.

[COLOR="Black"]Hi Crowan,

Interesting question – thanks. Regarding your title - I wouldn't say the truth is "out there", but that we are within it. Paul said, "In Him we live and move and have our being" (Acts 17)

To me, there is only ONE absolute Truth (another name for God) it's not "my truth" or "your truth" - Truth is infinite, unchanging, eternal, spiritual, just like 2+2=4 and will always be 4, which never began, will never change and will never end.

This sounds as if it is what you believe - fine, but it wasn't really what I was asking about. I was asking about how different religions present themselves to their followers in terms of either 'this is the truth', 'go and find the truth for yourself' or any other attitudes there may be.

It’s really difficult to try to lump “religions” together – for instance, there are more than 300,000 Christian denominations and I’m not sure about the others!

I can only speak from my background as a student of Christian Science.So here goes: Mary Baker Eddy who re-discovered the spiritual laws that Jesus healed by, says in the first page of her primary work:

The time for thinkers has come. Truth, independent of doctrines and time-honored systems, knocks at the portal of humanity. Contentment with the past and the cold conventionality of materialism are crumbling away. Ignorance of God is no longer the stepping-stone to faith. (Science and Health vii)

In another book, Miscellaneous Writings, she writes (my formatting)

God
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

And as Life, Truth, Love, Spirit, Soul, Mind and Principle are other synonyms for God, we can also see that

Truth
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

But I also believe Jesus when he said “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32) – he understood the universal laws of the universe and was able to demonstrate his complete control of all the limitations of matter. To me, vague theorising isn’t enough – I have to have proof. I see it with healings and other experiences. (There are a few on this thread )

I will let my friend Tony say the rest as I agree with every word he has written in this letter. (He's given me permission to share this)

Sir -

I think that there is an absolute truth, and I believe that absolute truth is God, good. I also follow a religious walk devoted to discerning, uncovering, and even demonstrating that Truth (with a capital "T") in healing. However, I genuinely respect the spiritual walk that others are taking in their own search for Truth, and I have found that I can learn from believers of other faiths and of none, as well as from literature and art.

I also respect those who conscientiously believe that there is no absolute truth, and I share their concerns about the attitudes of absolutists who are dogmatic in preaching that only their way has any truth to it. I don't think that the problem is with Truth being absolute, though. I think the problem arises when a denomination thinks it IS that Truth - rather than being a lens through which that Truth can be viewed - or that it has a monopoly on Truth.

Truth, to be Truth, has to be universal. Can you imagine if the laws of gravity applied only in one location? Or if you were only able to benefit from them if you happen to be a paid-up member of a particular gravity-believers club? Gravity-believers might feel that they can do a better job of harnessing the laws of gravity in their own lives and for the common good, because they are more focused on understanding those laws and are in discussion with others who have already proved their many wonderful applications. They can never, however, have more access to those laws than other believers or even non-believers.

So it is, I feel, with God's goodness. It is available impartially for all and it can, and does, work through all people - whatever denominational label we wear, or even if we shun all such labels, or consider ourselves humanists, agnostics, and atheists.

I would have to admit, though, that studying the nature of God's goodness from sacred texts - the Bible and Mary Baker Eddy's "Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures" in my case - and learning from others who have felt and proved the divine presence and power in their own lives, have proved invaluable in seeking my own healing and in finding the motivation to take less selfish relationship and career decisions.

While the inspiration I have needed has most often come from my own prayer and study, and from Christian Science contacts, at other times I have glimpsed something new and true from preachers or lay members of other churches, mosques, synagogues, etc. At still other times I have attended a movie and got just the idea I needed to lift me from a particular challenge to the peace and joy of spiritual consciousness and its attendant well-being.

I would put that down to a conviction that absolute truth, God, is always finding ways to communicate itself to us right where we are, in ways in which we will perceive it. But I wholeheartedly respect those who would disagree!

Yours Sincerely,

I love that, (wish I could articulate what i believe so well!) especially this bit:

I don't think that the problem is with Truth being absolute, though. I think the problem arises when a denomination thinks it IS that Truth - rather than being a lens through which that Truth can be viewed - or that it has a monopoly on Truth.

Love and peace,

Judy

Hey, where's everyone gone? :confused:

Truth breaks through to us if we allow it to. I love this article and have taken some excerpts from it.

[url]My journey from terminal to joyful and healthy[/url]

My story begins in 1993, before I’d ever heard of Christian Science. I was in what was, at best, an uncomfortable marriage. My husband and I had two boys ages five and seven. Symptoms I was experiencing led me to have a medical exam. I was told I had an inoperable brain tumor at my brain stem, and that I had a couple of months left to live....

I’d been raised in a devout, born-again Christian family, and my childhood was not a happy time for me. I believed that God was going to “get me,” if my daddy didn’t first. Love and God were just empty words to me in a religious climate where the emphasis was on hellfire and brimstone....

During that time, though, a new mental pattern began to emerge. I started to ask myself questions....

One day, I finally came to an incredible place of peace. Although I still wasn’t sure that I knew who God was, I could feel this presence with me, and I somehow knew that my boys were going to be fine, whatever happened to me….

As I lay there, I thought about God. Was He kind and loving? Did He have something to do with this peace that I’d found about leaving my boys? Then the most revolutionary (and funny) thought came. All those years in Sunday School had taught me my Bible pretty well. I remembered that in the Old Testament there was all this talk about smiting—the Israelites smiting so and so, and being smitten by so and so. But now, I knew, God wasn’t “up there” with a big “smite button,” and He would never say that today was my day to be the one who gets the smiting! It sounded so crazy that I laughed out loud. At that moment I knew that there was an answer for me—and that it would be a spiritual answer.

I look forward to reading some more perspectives about Truth from others.

Love and peace,

Judy

Regarding your title - I wouldn't say the truth is "out there

But actually, doesn't this differ from religion to religion and from person to person?

I seek and find 'truth' by asking my spirit Teachers and paying attention to the answers. I would describe this as 'out there', although I know people who also practice shamanism who would reguard it as internal.

I think the problem arises when a denomination thinks it IS that Truth - rather than being a lens through which that Truth can be viewed - or that it has a monopoly on Truth.

Isn't this what many religions (not all) do say, though.

Principled - is this attitude of 'truth is not absolute' common throughout Christian Science? Or is it something that you would have personally come to whatever your religion? (And I realise that probably hasn't got an absolute answer, either!)

Principled - is this attitude of 'truth is not absolute' common throughout Christian Science? Or is it something that you would have personally come to whatever your religion? (And I realise that probably hasn't got an absolute answer, either!)

[COLOR="Black"]I never said that Crowan. I said:

To me, there is only ONE absolute Truth (another name for God) it's not "my truth" or "your truth" - Truth is infinite, unchanging, eternal, spiritual, just like 2+2=4 and will always be 4, which never began, will never change and will never end.

Truth is universal, like the laws of mathematics. A Buddhist, Shaman, Spiritualist, Atheist, Catholic, Hindu, Jew etc can all utilise the laws of mathematics freely and eternally. No one belief system has the monopoly - it's like a diamond - each is like a facet of the diamond, but not the whole diamond itself. As my friend said, each is a lens through which we can view the Truth - or God.

Love and peace,

Judy

[COLOR="Black"]Originally Posted by Principled
Regarding your title - I wouldn't say the truth is "out there

But actually, doesn't this differ from religion to religion and from person to person?

I seek and find 'truth' by asking my spirit Teachers and paying attention to the answers. I would describe this as 'out there', although I know people who also practice shamanism who would regard it as internal.

[COLOR="Black"]As I said Crowan, I can only answer from my perspective and my perspective is of one-ness, that in our true spiritual identity, we live and move and have our being IN infinite Spirit. There is no separation - no duality.

Love and peace,

Judy

I
Truth is universal, like the laws of mathematics. A Buddhist, Shaman, Spiritualist, Atheist, Catholic, Hindu, Jew etc can all utilise the laws of mathematics freely and eternally. No one belief system has the monopoly - it's like a diamond - each is like a facet of the diamond, but not the whole diamond itself. As my friend said, each is a lens through which we can view the Truth - or God.

But surely, if I say that I do not believe in this God, then either truth is relative or there is a Truth, but we can't both have a grasp of it. Surely there are things I believe where you could simply say, "No, you are wrong." I'm sure there are things that you believe where I could say it.

It seems to me a complicated way of trying to make everyone feel comfortable.

But surely, if I say that I do not believe in this God, then either truth is relative or there is a Truth, but we can't both have a grasp of it. Surely there are things I believe where you could simply say, "No, you are wrong." I'm sure there are things that you believe where I could say it.

It seems to me a complicated way of trying to make everyone feel comfortable.

"I don't believe in this God" whats that got to do with the Truth? All truth that you(one) believe in is just a belief, not Truth. What is relative is changeable hence not the Truth.
When it is anything less than Truth, there is always possibility of you are wrong and I am right or you are right and I was wrong.
You are not talking about Truth really but how different religons have different belief systems.
Truth is not in contradiction with anything. Only beliefs are - either in accord or discord. Truth is not about making anyone comfortable either...It makes the mind extremely uncomfortable...so much so that it anniihilates it. Truth is not bothered about maintaining so called peace, and keeping everyone nice and comfortable. Truth does not have any need to feel comfortable.
Just see how Jesus and all otehr masters/gurus keep making people, societies/traditions/even their own desciples extremely challeneged and uncomfortable.

When it is anything less than Truth, there is always possibility of you are wrong and I am right or you are right and I was wrong.
You are not talking about Truth really but how different religons have different belief systems.

Which is actually the question I posed in the first place.

I asked, not about what truth is (how could I get an answer to that? In this life? On this forum?), but how different religions present the attainment of truth.

Which is actually the question I posed in the first place.

I asked, not about what truth is (how could I get an answer to that? In this life? On this forum?), but how different religions present the attainment of truth.

A good way to find about belief systems of different religions is perhaps your Local library. They usually have religious/spiritual section with some pretty amazing books on most cults/religions/faiths. Worth a try...

"I don't believe in this God" whats that got to do with the Truth? All truth that you(one) believe in is just a belief, not Truth. What is relative is changeable hence not the Truth.
When it is anything less than Truth, there is always possibility of you are wrong and I am right or you are right and I was wrong.
You are not talking about Truth really but how different religons have different belief systems.
Truth is not in contradiction with anything. Only beliefs are - either in accord or discord. Truth is not about making anyone comfortable either...It makes the mind extremely uncomfortable...so much so that it anniihilates it. Truth is not bothered about maintaining so called peace, and keeping everyone nice and comfortable. Truth does not have any need to feel comfortable.
Just see how Jesus and all otehr masters/gurus keep making people, societies/traditions/even their own desciples extremely challeneged and uncomfortable.

Thanks Ruby for answering for me! Spot on! 🙂

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi .

Perhaps trying to attain the truth Is similar to a donkey trying to reach the carrot thats dangling In front of It's nose .

In regards to truth It Is like Grace for they can only become you .

x dazzle x

A good way to find about belief systems of different religions is perhaps your Local library. They usually have religious/spiritual section with some pretty amazing books on most cults/religions/faiths. Worth a try...

Are you saying that this forum is not a place to find out individual's ideas of how their religions present this? I was interested in peoples' views of the different religions, which is why I posted this in 'Interfaith'. Most of the replies would be better under 'Philosophy'.
There seems to be very little genuine discussion on the forum.

Thanks Ruby for answering for me! Spot on! 🙂

Love and peace,

Judy

You are welcome Judy, my love

There seems to be very little genuine discussion on the forum

Yes. The replies to Crowan's original question seem to be just various individuals' takes on the meaning of "truth". I must admit I was taken aback by the suggestion that visiting one's local library would provide information on different religions' belief systems! Maybe it would if one were simply seeking an overview, but I didn't get the impression that that was the case.

Yes. The replies to Crowan's original question seem to be just various individuals' takes on the meaning of "truth". I must admit I was taken aback by the suggestion that visiting one's local library would provide information on different religions' belief systems! Maybe it would if one were simply seeking an overview, but I didn't get the impression that that was the case.

Hi Kiga (and Crowan) unfortunately, there are not many "religious" people on HP, so I doubt you'll get many answers.

Now, take Christianity as an example. There are 300,000 different denominations, so if you asked for a Christian answer, you could get that many! As I said, I have shared the Christian Science perspective above, but that will not be what most other Christians believe. Likewise, there are many different versions of Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.

I'd like to see more replies too, but I don't think they are here on HP. Sorry you don't think this is a genuine discussion Crowan, but I thought I was answering what you were asking, from my own perspective.

Love and peace,

Judy

Are you saying that this forum is not a place to find out individual's ideas of how their religions present this? I was interested in peoples' views of the different religions, which is why I posted this in 'Interfaith'. Most of the replies would be better under 'Philosophy'.
There seems to be very little genuine discussion on the forum.

No, but library is also a good place for similar quest.

No, but library is also a good place for similar quest.

Yes, so is the internet if you just want basic information, but I think the idea was to inspire a discussion within this forum.

Yes, so is the internet if you just want basic information, but I think the idea was to inspire a discussion within this forum.

Hi everyone,

If a discussion is merely an exchange of views/opinions strung together with polite conjunctions,:

Poster #1, "BLUE is the best colour of all time ~ discuss!"

Poster #2, "I disagree, RED is the best colour of all time! Although many people choose GREEN and others choose ORANGE (each to their own)."

Poster #3, "I agree in part with Poster #1 and I agree in part with Poster #2- BLUE when mixed with RED is in fact the best colour of all time - PURPLE ! Every other colour is just wrong!"

... then how is that different to a couple of talking e-books / library books conversing ? It doesn't go very deep.

Perhaps that's why the forum 'discussions' always seem to steer into philosophical waters... You like BLUE, I like RED.... and....

....now what....?