Sanskrit sloka query

Namaskar,
Sorry, I don't know this verse's origin. If I have time, I'll do a little digging, see if I can find it. I'd be interested to find out!
Best,
Shankar

prashna
are you studying Sanskrit then?

I want to learn Sanskrit but will have to wait until a new term begins in September..until then i will have to teach myself

tigress

Namaste Prashna 🙂

Isa asked me about this sloka; and stumped me!

Stumping You? I don't stand a chance. No.

Shankara108, if you are reading this both Isa and I would appreciate some light on it. Or if anyone else can help, that would be great too.

Prashna

Absolutely . Would love it, if any of you could shed some light about its origin.

Regards
Isa 🙂

prashna
are you studying Sanskrit then?

I want to learn Sanskrit but will have to wait until a new term begins in September..until then i will have to teach myself

tigress

My apologies, wonderful tigress.

for not responding sooner.

I was having a good time on the 5-letter game thread started by the most magical Moonfairy.

As to learning Sanskrit, I did provide some links in Message 53 of [url]this thread [/url]. You might find those useful.

I did study Sanskrit at school up to Higher Secondary level (equivalent to AS levels here) and did very well. I was reasonably well practised at that time and could recite pages of slokas from memory. Sadly 50 years of lack of practice does nothing to improve one's command of any language, much less an exact one like Sanskrit.

However, my background and personal interest ensured that I never lost it altogether, as it is quite easy to do.

I would like to improve my fluency in Sanskrit.

If you are really interested in Sanskrit that is the happiest news for me. I wish you well and would try to help you in any way I can.

Regards.

Prashna

Resolution

Namaste Prashna 🙂
Would love it, if any of you could shed some light about its origin.

Isa 🙂

Hi Isa,

Can't ignore a plea like that. So here is the resolution:

[url]4-lines of sloka and link to you tube here [/url]

[url]and here, about the middle of page [/url]

[DLMURL="http://www.sysindia.com/forums/General_Discussion/posts/52168.html"]and here in Rajainfinity's post (entry number 5 )[/DLMURL]

Excerpt( should be helpful):

The essence of Vedas is so large that Sankara and Ramanuja spent years to discover it and wrote entire books on it. Their message is clear, without Smriti (Puranam), once is not qualified to read Sruti(Vedam). And these teachings are from Sruti. One has to follow Smriti first, and hate cow-slaughter (because it is there in Smriti), then only one becomes qualified to even talk about Sruti.

You can read Paramacharya's discourses on kamakoti.org if u really want to know hinduism accurately.

The last one seems to be a most useful discussion, if somewhat heated.

Hope this helps.

Prashna

Hi Isa,

[url]4-lines of sloka and link to you tube here [/url]

Hi Prashna.

I love the medium of music, so really liked the above link! Love the way it builds towards the end. 🙂

RxXx

Have to agree with Cirrus - I really enjoyed listening to it - thanks Prashna!

More Viinaa links

Have to agree with Cirrus - I really enjoyed listening to it - thanks Prashna!

Thank you, Cirrus and Graham,

for your kind comments.

At last, I have been able to listen to that link critically myself. It is good but I have to agree with the critical comments that were made. The bhakti (devotion or ecstasy) element is a bit down, I believe. However, Rajesh Vaidhya is an extremely capable Veena player, undoubtedly. IMO the best of his playing is here

[url]RAJHESH VAIDHYA - VEENA VOYAGE 03 - RAGHUVAMSA [/url]

A much more gifted player IMO is Jayanthi here

[url]Notable Vainika Series: Jayanthi Kumaresh [/url]

[url]and also here [/url]

These pictures show very clearly the main difference between the Viinaa and the Sitar. The Viinaa has that shiny brass resonating chamber near the top, which resonates and amplifies the sound and gives the Viinaa its unique character.

The Sitar often omits the extra chamber near the top and thus yields a more compact, lioghter and more manageable instrument. Of course, in some Sitars (more expensive) there is a resonating chamber near the top, but it is made of gourd, just like the lower one.

Hence lighter.

Enjoy.

Prashna

P.S.

All the above links show the Viinaa played in the Karnataki style. But it can be played in the Hindusthani style also, albeit more rarely.

Here is an example.

[url]Indian Classical Music Rudra Veena Concert by Suvir Misra [/url]

Note both chambers made of gourd, but larger than in the Sitar.

Hi Isa,

Can't ignore a plea like that. So here is the resolution:

[url]4-lines of sloka and link to you tube here [/url]

[url]and here, about the middle of page [/url]

[DLMURL="http://www.sysindia.com/forums/General_Discussion/posts/52168.html"]and here in Rajainfinity's post (entry number 5 )[/DLMURL]

The last one seems to be a most useful discussion, if somewhat heated.

Hope this helps.

Prashna

Namaste Prashna 🙂

My sincere apologies for the late reply. Thank you so much for the links. I really appreciate your effort in finding out the origin of that sloka for me.

Read Rajainfinity's post.Heated discussion indeed. I guess its white hot. Could not understand the discussion not written in English 🙁 !!!!

Kind Regards
Isa

So many misunderstandings.

Namaste Prashna 🙂

My sincere apologies for the late reply. Thank you so much for the links. I really appreciate your effort in finding out the origin of that sloka for me.

Read Rajainfinity's post.Heated discussion indeed. I guess its white hot. Could not understand the discussion not written in English 🙁 !!!!

Kind Regards
Isa

You are most welcome, Isa.

That thread I cited particularly for those of Indian origin, who post or visit these pages.

It illustrates vividly the acrimony, the frustration and misunderstanding that sadly is only too prevalent in India.

So many misunderstandings, re: Smriti, Shruti, Puraans, Vedas, various exponents, various paths eg Bhakti, Jnana and Karma.

And yet it need not be. We need to remember the old English saying:

"United we stand, divided.."

For too long Hindus have been divided. For Indians not to take this unique opportunity in Independent Bhaarat, to unite truly behind the tricolour with the chakra, would be a tragic mistake.

That thread brings out so many issues that are at the core of Sanaatana Dharma and Hindu culture that it does need fuller discussion. Perhaps one or more threads here on the issues it raises may be useful...

Perhaps another day...

Live long and prosper.

Prashna

Another sloka.

Hi all,

Yet again, Isa has stumped me.

Looks like I am too easily stumped! Must improve my stance with the willow!

Here is the not-so-obscure Sanskrit sloka:

Annapoorne Sadaa poorne, Shankara Praanavallabhe
Gyana Vairaagya Sidyartham, Bhikshaam Dehi cha Paarvati
Maataa cha Paarvati Devi, Pitaa Devo Maheswarah
Baandava Shiva Bhaktyascha, Svadeso Bhuvanatrayam

[DLMURL="http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:t_aId3ifMnAJ:www.kytemple.org/shlokas3.doc+Annapoorne+sadapoorne&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk"]on this web page[/DLMURL] about 14 clicks of the page down key on my keyboard.

Roughly translated, it means

O Annapurna, Who art ever full, the beloved life-force of Lord Sankara
___O’ Parvathi – I beg your grace to be firmly established in wisdom and Renunciation.

(Bless me) daughter of Paarvati and Maheswara (Shiva),
___surrounded by devotees of shiva, whose domain spans the three worlds.

Quite a mouthful, isn't it?

But Isa's query is quite specific.

In the original sloka, the devotees often are urged to say 'vairaagya' if male and s'oubhaagya' if female!

1. Why is that?

2. Is it OK for female devotees to say 'vairaagya' also?

Answering the two in reverse order, my response would be

2. Of course it's OK. Not only that, it's better.
Vairagya indicates renunciation. or the number zero.
Soubhaagya indicates good fortune or the number 1 (statistically) or infinity (symbolically).

Now I see very little difference between 0 and Infinity.

One is the reciprocal of the other, mathematically speaking.

Or put another way, the two are simply two different ways of experiencing perceived reality.

Which really should be obvious if you study the graphs of the trigonometric functions, with some care.

Or put another way, is there any real difference between saying
my cup is half empty and
my cup is half full.

Then why do I say, Vairagya is better?

Ah well, when you are at the lowest point, the only way forward is going up, isn't it?

1. I am well aware that in traditional Hindu pujas, women are asked to recite 'namah' while men recite 'aum~'.

There are many reasons for this of which I shall cite only one.

Men are hunters, it's their job to push the boundaries.

Women are life givers, without them there would be no men.

Simple as that, but its implications are most profound.

Perhaps Shankara could explain it better.

I look forward to your views.

Regards.

Prashna

shruti smriti puraanaam
__ aalayam karunaalayam
namami bhagabatpaadam
___shankaram loka shankaram

🙂
hi Prashna hi Isa and everyone,

maybe:
I bow before the feet ofthe Blessed One,
Shankara, the one who delights the world,
The dwelling place of shruti, smriti and puranic lore,
The dwelling place of compassion.

bhavaaniidasa

shruti smriti puraanaam
__ aalayam karunaalayam
namami bhagabatpaadam
___shankaram loka shankaram

🙂
hi Prashna hi Isa and everyone,

maybe:
I bow before the feet ofthe Blessed One,
Shankara, the one who delights the world,
The dwelling place of shruti, smriti and puranic lore,
The dwelling place of compassion.

bhavaaniidasa

Hi Bhavaaniidasa,

Yet again you have amazed me with your depth of understanding of SD and command of Sanskrit.

Frankly it is an excellent translation and better than my hurried effort.

Isa, you will do well take down B's rendering.

Truly poetic.

Jiiva arita cha.

Prashna

Hi Bhavaaniidasa,

Yet again you have amazed me with your depth of understanding of SD and command of Sanskrit.

Frankly it is an excellent translation and better than my hurried effort.

Isa, you will do well take down B's rendering.

Truly poetic.

Jiiva arita cha.

Prashna

The translation is truly wonderful and correct Prashna ji and thanks to Bhavaaniidasa. The English transliteration of the word 'bhagbat' should be bhagvat.

In spoken Sanskrit (especially in Gaud and Panchal) we note that 'v' is oft pronounce 'b', however when transliterating remember to write the correct 'akshar.'

Chankya

The translation is truly wonderful and correct Prashna ji and thanks to Bhavaaniidasa. The English transliteration of the word 'bhagbat' should be bhagvat.

In spoken Sanskrit (especially in Gaud and Panchal) we note that 'v' is oft pronounce 'b', however when transliterating remember to write the correct 'akshar.'

Chankya

Thank you, Chankya,

and of course Bhavaaniidasa, yet again.

Chankya, your comments on the pronunciation are most welcome and illuminating. I would like to discuss it further, but can spare little time today.

Perhaps later in the week.

I look forward to that.

Jiiva ariita cha.

Prashna

thank you

thanks everyone for the kind comments; I've only been going about 6 years, but have worked fairly hard at it though!

a funny aside:
I met someone a few weks ago; he said his name was Bishnu. I thought I would show off my smartness -- I said "you are Bengali, then" (because of Prashna I took this for a Bengalism).:)
But he said he was from Nepal!:o

thanks everyone for the kind comments; I've only been going about 6 years, but have worked fairly hard at it though!

bhavaanii dasa

Unless I am wrong are you not a student at OCHS? How long have you been Krishna Conscious?

I was once an external examiner in Sanskrit before they axed it and replaced the faculty with Arabic!

Regards

Chankya

hi chankya

Thank you.
I started reading Upanishads and Bhagavad gita about 25 years ago.
I only stated getting more serious about 10 years ago.
I learned Sanskrit because I had so many translations of the Upanishads (Yeats/Purohit Swami, Dr Roer, Mancuso, Prabhupda, Eashwaran, Joshi et al, others downloaded from advaitavedanta site and celextel site) the differences in translation irritated me, so I decided to learn properly.

I just used the books that I mentioned in the thread on folklore -- but I have interlinear translations too (Gita, Bhagavatapurana) so I could learn from there too. I am still not used to listening to Sanskrit at all -- I mostly wanted to read. If I am familiar with a passage I can follow it, otherwise I could not follow spoken language at all.

As for being Krshna conscious -- I am not that spiritual chankya!

svasti te .stu

shruti smriti puraanaam
__ aalayam karunaalayam
namami bhagabatpaadam
___shankaram loka shankaram

🙂
hi Prashna hi Isa and everyone,

maybe:
I bow before the feet ofthe Blessed One,
Shankara, the one who delights the world,
The dwelling place of shruti, smriti and puranic lore,
The dwelling place of compassion.

bhavaaniidasa

Hi Bhavaaniidasa 🙂

Thank you so much for the wonderful rendering.

Regards.
Isa

Upanishads, Roger Penrose and Kaalii-Shiva dance.

Thank you.
I started reading Upanishads and Bhagavad gita about 25 years ago.
I only stated getting more serious about 10 years ago.
I learned Sanskrit because I had so many translations of the Upanishads (Yeats/Purohit Swami, Dr Roer, Mancuso, Prabhupda, Eashwaran, Joshi et al, others downloaded from advaitavedanta site and celextel site) the differences in translation irritated me, so I decided to learn properly.

As for being Krshna conscious -- I am not that spiritual chankya!

svasti te .stu

There goes the modest one, Chankya!

How I wish I could be like you, bhavaaniidasa!

But I can't. The Vulcan code demands an absolute adherence to the truth, nothing less!

Therefore undue modesty is just as much a lie as is unjustified pride. And I have to reject both, in favour of truth, beauty, awareness as you know it, bhavaaniidasa!

Or Satyam, Shivam, Sundaram, as you know it, Chankya!

So I can fill in where bhavaaniidasa cannot.

I still believe that on the Upanishads:

• the commentary by Shankaracharya is the most definitive,
• the translation by Juan Mascaro the most poetic, and
• that by Purohit Swami and WB Yeats the most evocative.

I knew of the first two of course, and many others.

But I did not know about the 3rd one!

For reasons that you chankya explained eloquently in the thread on Macauley.

It was bhavaaniidasa, who from the distant land on the other side of terra that introduced me to that immortal work.

And it is thanks to him that I now have, wait for it, bhavaaniidasa,

not one but two first edition copies of that book!

One for each of my two sons...

Na, na, na, na, na, na ... ... ...

But is that all?

No Sir, not by a very long shot.

It was bhavaaniidasa, who from the distant land on the other side of terra that introduced me to another seminal work!

One that is not yet a legend but will be in time...

bhavaaniidasa, this is your cue for starting a thread on Roger Penrose and his 'Shadows of the mind'.

You have gone boldly where no other HP member has been able to venture,

unless of course, someone knows otherwise.

Please start the thread that I cannot.

I can only say that the diagram on the last section on the 3 worlds convinced me yet again of how far ahead of their time the Magnificent Seven really were!

I shall start a thread on the Magnificent Seven, the Saptarshii

if you bhavaaniidasa, start one on 'Shadows of the mind'.

And is that all?

No Sir, not by a very long shot.

It was bhavaaniidasa, who from the distant land on the other side of terra that submitted a moving story [url]in post 30 of this thread![/url]

Prashna has been unproductively distracted elsewhere, as you might have noticed. So he has not been able to close the case.

And now, Chankya, as Chief Inspector from the Surete,

could you please close the case for me,

and save me from the Inspector Clueso embarassment!

Thank you.

Prashna

Sanskrit pronunciation

The translation is truly wonderful and correct Prashna ji and thanks to Bhavaaniidasa. The English transliteration of the word 'bhagbat' should be bhagvat.

In spoken Sanskrit (especially in Gaud and Panchal) we note that 'v' is oft pronounce 'b', however when transliterating remember to write the correct 'akshar.'

Chankya

Now then, Chankya,

We cross swords again!

But only in the best traditions of the noble art of fencing!

I shall start in the traditional way, on guard, yet reverent to your obvious and proven erudition!

I hope you shall maintain guard also, for I shall thrust and parry!

It's only fair to warn you!

Let's begin!

Since the Devnagri script is not known to most posters on HP it may be wise to start there. Of course, I accept that you chankya know it slightly better than the back of your hand, and B and Isa know it far better than me.

I do not have need to use it as the Bengali alphabet is the closest to the Devnagri and therefore capable of recording and reproducing its every note.

Chankya, still on guard, I hope.

[url]Here then is the devnagri alpabet:[/url]

Please note row 5, labial consonants, columns 3 and 4.

Do you notice any difference between the two letters?

They are transliterated ba and bha respectively!

Why the two letters in the alphabet then, if v is all we need?

We all know that Sanskrit is completely phonetic!

Why in the language of celestial communications occurs this imperfection?

I am well aware of the pathetic pronunciation of the pure Sanskrit sounds by most persons now hailing from the ancient lands of Anga, later to become Gaud and even later, anga(Bihar), banga(Bengal) and Kalinga(orissa?).

Not so sure about Paanchaal, which after all was the neighbour of Kuru?

But it was not always so. The five Brahmins who were invited into Gaud to start the Brahmin line in Gaud hailed from Daakshinatya, I think(?). I doubt very much that they would have so mispronounced the pure beauty of Sanskrit!

Anyway back to the matter at hand.

Chankya, still on guard, I hope!

To his eternal credit, Bhavaaniidasa asked me this question a long time ago!

And this was my reply:

I shall try to illustrate the critical nature of the difference with one example of a Sanskrit word that you may be familiar with:
Veda. If you use the correct English pronunciation ie "V" as in Victor, then the word is a noun which means "division".But that is NOT what you mean, if you are referring to the Hindu scriptures RigVeda etc. The correct pronunciation then should be:
Beda. with the soft "B" as in Bed, That in its turn comes from "bidyA" Knowledge. or the DhAturoop (Verb Root) Bid with d pronounced as a soft "d" (nearest English sound Th as in "Then"). So really we should write
Betha But the moment we do that, the "th" would be pronounced as the hard soun Beth as in Bethlehem.
See the problems that arise in transliterating a TOTALLY phonetic language in to a non-Phonetic language."BarAha"- I believe that is the correct pronunciation with a soft "b" at the start like ball rather than a hard "V" as in Victor.

2. "Bindu" - correct as it starts with a soft "B".

I also stated in my opening paragraph:

It really is because Sanskrit is a very exact language, grammatically and phonetically. Now I freely confess that my knowledge of Sanskrit is far from perfect. Nevertheless, I believe, that it is as exact as you will find. You could ask a real Sanskrit scholar, from the Hindu University in bArAnasi, or indeed any Sanskrit department in any major city in India.

I am delighted, absolutely delighted, to find a real Sanskrit scholar on this forum, in you, Chankya.

But I do believe you need to comment on the very real problems I have highlighted.

Live long and prosper.

Prashna

hi Prashna

Hi Prashna,

Thank you for you words-- but you may yet find that I am made of arrogance! With capricorn on the ascendant and 4 planets there, I can have a tendency to look down on the things below! But fortunately, I do have some humility too, probably just enough. And talking to people as yourself who actually know something, my bubble is popped before it gets too big. And my profession trains me to be arrogant while simultaneously preparing to have all pride crushed.

I would be happy to start a thread on the matters Penrose talks about. The mind body problem is something I think about quite a bit. I shall try to crystallise my thoughts to the point where there are comprehensible to someone else!

svastite .stu

Hi Prashna,

but you may yet find that I am made of arrogance!

svasti te stu

You are made of arrogance? bhavaaniidasa

Now you have really upset me!

So much so that I have actually to look up the good book.

If you have not got a copy yourself, I am sure you can find a copy somewhere in your street!

I am sure you know how to find this better than me: John :8:7.

"Which ever one of you has committed no sin may throw the first stone at her."

and they all left, one by one, the older ones first.

As I turn away, now....

Live long and prosper.

Prashna

Ah well, Bhavaanii,

A week has passed since I posted last on this thread.

It has been said that "a week is a long time in Politics".

That aphorism seems equally applicable here, right now.

In that week, Chankya, whose knowledge of Sanskrit FAR exceeds mine, has been banned from HP.

So he can no longer respond to my previous post and sadly both you and I will remain unenlightened on the critical difference between b and v in Sanskrit.

Meanwhile, I must insist that the difference is real.

Sanskrit is a very precise language, totally phonetic, and I believe that Chankya was wrong in his blanket statement that all instances of 'b' as pronounced by Gaudiyas (that's me) and Panchali's should really be 'v'.

I cannot accept that!

But Chankya is no longer here to explain, and we must wait until some other Hindu, equally versed in Sanskrit, decides to become a member of HP.

I fear that we may have to wait a very long time!

Regards.

Prashna

I shall try to illustrate the critical nature of the difference with one example of a Sanskrit word that you may be familiar with:
Veda. If you use the correct English pronunciation ie "V" as in Victor, then the word is a noun which means "division".But that is NOT what you mean, if you are referring to the Hindu scriptures RigVeda etc. The correct pronunciation then should be:
Beda. with the soft "B" as in Bed, That in its turn comes from "bidyA" Knowledge. or the DhAturoop (Verb Root) Bid with d pronounced as a soft "d" (nearest English sound Th as in "Then"). So really we should write
Betha But the moment we do that, the "th" would be pronounced as the hard soun Beth as in Bethlehem.
See the problems that arise in transliterating a TOTALLY phonetic language in to a non-Phonetic language."BarAha"- I believe that is the correct pronunciation with a soft "b" at the start like ball rather than a hard "V" as in Victor.

2. "Bindu" - correct as it starts with a soft "B".

Hi All,
Hope I haven't come to this topic too late. I've been rather busy recently, and haven't checked in on the ol HP fora.
I must admit, I haven't read all the posts on this thread, so if I'm repeating what somebody else has already said, apologies.
But, to clarify:

The sanskrit word for knowledge veda, from the root vid(plus thematic -a to form a nominal derivative) is to be pronounced with an initial voiced labio-dental fricative. That is, as a 'v' sound (alike Victor). The pronounciation beda evidenced in areas such as Bengal is a later development.
We know how the akshara (sound) v was to be pronounced in Sanskrit from the many wonderful texts preserved which deal with such matters. In modern linguistics, we refer to such sounds as v as a labial glide. The Sanskrit grammarians recognised such sounds, and gave them their own names.
Also, if there was any doubt, we have comparative evidence from other related, Indo-European languages. Cf. Avestan root vaed 'to know', Latin forms such as video, lit. veidas etc etc. All begin with a recognisable v sound.

But this is not to say that all bsounds in Bengali are to be traced back to Sanskrit v. Sanskrit also has a distinct voiced (bilabial) plosive b (as in English bed). Just as English distinguishes the two (cf. vet, bet), so does Sanskrit. It is just that the two sounds, vis-a-vis v and b have coalesced in some modern languages and dialects such as Bengali.

Hope this helps.
Much love,
Shankar.

Need the sloka Regard Fate

Dear All,
Can any body give the sloka "Hari nabi hare nabi brahma nabi....lallade" mean even siva or vishu or brahma cann't change their fate.

Expecting the sloka lines from you.
with hope,
Ramanan.P