Krishna,if you view his life in general, is a far cry from the other prophets like Buddha, Mahavira, Muhammad ,Jesus, Moses who lived an austere life of self-denial.
The charecterestic of Krishna's life is his many-sidedness. He was great as a musician, as a scholar,as a yogi, as a dancer, as a poet, as a soldier, as an administrator, as a philosopher and spiritual master, and as a gentleman.
Krishna , through out his life was known for his cheerfulness and his funloving nature and mischief . He stole the butter and ghee of the gopis, teased them and flirted with them, stole their clothes while they were bathing, sang songs in the moonlight(which he loved) and danced with them. He was also known for his sense of humour and cracked jokes spontaneously.
Can you imagine the Buddha dancing gaily with young women, or Jesus playing a flute or Muhammad singing songs in praise of nature and life or Moses cracking jokes?
And even though Krishna's life was a tragedy, he always faced life with non-attachment and equanimity, and a perpetual cheerful smile in his face to the very end.
As Osho says in his classic "Krishna :The man and his philosophy", Krishna represents a new order of humanity; Krishna combined in himself the spiritual charecterestics of Buddha, and the materialistic charecterestics of Zorba the Greek. He was himself steeped in non-attachment,yoga, equanimity of mind, spirituality and at the same time he enjoyed life to the maximum.He was in short Zorba the Buddha.
Krishna was the personification of his teaching,"The wise man is he who is intensely peaceful in the midst of intense action, and intensely active in the midst of intense peace."
Sri Dutta Gurumali, an Indian spiritual master, has stated that Kriishna was the greatest yogi the world has ever known, and the greatest bhogi(enjoyer of life) too that the world has ever known, in the last 5000 years.
Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, an Indian enlightened master, and who is the creator of the Art of Living Foundation , bases his institutions philosophy on this trait of Krishna, and has stated "God loves fun."
We all don't need to be staunch followers of Krishna, but let us assimilate this beautiful trait of Krishna, namely 'Zorba the Buddha.' 🙂
Hi niranjan....
What a great post and I have to agree with you, Krishna was an incredible prophet...
I attend most of the major Hindu celebrations with a chant group and absolutly love each and every one of them....A great way to fill the heart with love and compassion.....
Thanks for reminding me of the joy they bring....:)
Sorry, but I can't agree with either of you. Isn't the whole point that Krishna was not a prophet but God incarnate. Wikipedia has the following:
Traditional belief based on scriptural details and [url]astrological calculations[/url] gives the date of Krishna's birth, known as as either 18 or 21 July 3228 BCE.
so we're talking about a long long time ago.
Can you imagine the Buddha dancing gaily with young women, or Jesus playing a flute or Muhammad singing songs in praise of nature and life or Moses cracking jokes?
I can indeed imagine all that and don't see why its not possible. I'm sorry, Niranjan, I'm not putting your post down and have the utmost love and respect for Sri Krishna but I just don't believe that there's any need for any kind of spiritual one up manship where deities are concerned.
A guy I know who spends a lot of time in India (as did I and will do again) has composed a song with the chorus 'My guru's better than your guru'. And we see 'My God is better than your God' in so many of the major (and minor) conflicts taking place in the world today.
Ja Sri Krishna. Jai Ma. Jai Hanuman etc etc etc
xxx
I don't do politics Sunanda....I only speak from the heart....
Sorry, Oaky, I hope I didn't offend you. As I wrote it, my post felt a bit mean-spirited. I should have just bit my tongue. It's of no never mind anyway. And I know how much you love the Hindu aspect of worship...and all the other elements of devotion which are embodied in your life. Love and respect to you and to Niranjan.
xxx
Namaste Sunanda...
Have a wonderful trip....and keep us posted if you can......
Can you imagine the Buddha dancing gaily with young women, or Jesus playing a flute or Muhammad singing songs in praise of nature and life or Moses cracking jokes?
I can indeed imagine all that and don't see why its not possible. I'm sorry, Niranjan, I'm not putting your post down and have the utmost love and respect for Sri Krishna but I just don't believe that there's any need for any kind of spiritual one up manship where deities are concerned.
I have to say, I agree with you Sunanda. Whilst Krishna may have done all of those things, there's absolutely no reason why any of the other wise people would not have shown just such human traits.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Krishna,if you view his life in general, is a far cry from the other prophets like Buddha, Mahavira, Muhammad ,Jesus, Moses who lived an austere life of self-denial.
Like Sunanda, I mean no disrespect to your post, niranjan, and honour that you have a figure that you honour. However, Krishna is a "far cry" from the other "prophets" you name for different reasons than those you mentioned. Though the other figures don't all have complete biographies known to us today, and some people differ over whether they did or said or meant this or that - they were real, living, historical figures. (I'd class Gautama as just about historical, anyway.)
Krishna is a deity. As wikipedia says: "a deity worshiped across many traditions of Hinduism in a variety of different perspectives". He's whatever people wish for him to be to them, but is not an historical figure who lived and has a life that we know of. He may be pure invention, to be blunt. He certainly didn't exist in all the different many forms. It's possible that the Krishna-concept is based upon myth stemming from a distant living person, about whom - the real person - myth built up, and we know nothing of the real life today. Or like Hanuman, Krishna could well be simply a symbolic deity.
Writings such as the Bagavad Gita, for example, were built up over time. It's symbolic, a composed poem, and not the actual events of that day. Scholars believe parts of it were composed or altered (on caste for example) by Brahmins to reassert their sway at a time when they were losing power and control.
There's no real birth-date for Krishna either, of course. These too are symbolic and concerned with myth. All in all, then, Krishna is indeed different to the figures you also mention! They came to teach people how to live; as Sunanda points out, Krishna is supposed to be God (Vishnu) Incarnate - not a state we ourselves are exactly aspiring to, as we might, say, aspire to be like Jesus. (I don't believe Jesus did live a particularly austere life at all times, by the way, and certainly not always one of self-denial in the negative sense.)
All that's the dry, scholarly point of view, which for accuracy I feel needs stating here. But what in other ways is Krishna? What does Krishna as some form of living tradition mean to living people today? There'll be different views on this, but sometimes I feel that the adoration shown to the figure is akin to the love and devotion displayed, say, to Mary in Catholicism: such love and devotion expands the heart chakra and raises kundalini; it's wonderful. I also sometimes like to think of 'Krishna' as a Hindu word for what in the West might be called the Christ-principle, or the potential for Christhood/Krishna-hood within all of us. 🙂
V
I know this isn't up there in the deep spiritual discourse, but I thought summink was missing from that initial list - wasn't he also a reknowned 'lover' also... or did I just wish that on him? :confused: 🙂
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I know this isn't up there in the deep spiritual discourse, but I thought summink was missing from that initial list - wasn't he also a reknowned 'lover' also... or did I just wish that on him? :confused: 🙂
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Certainly something attracted the Gopis to him, the gals. However, I see a nice symbolism intended here: Krishna is the Higher Self or Christ-Krishna Principle within us all, and the Gopis are attracted to 'dance' around him as the plays his flute - the flute symbolic IMHO of the 'tone' or 'vibration' of the Higher Self. The Gopis are human personalities or 'souls'. Ultimately we are all attracted to the tone or Call of higher aspiration, the God or Krishna within ourselves (and in others).
In any religious tradition, you are likely to find the relationship of the Higher Self to the 'souls' who are 'below' symbolised as a male figure, with the souls as the receptive 'feminine' figures i.e. you and I are also among the Gopis, Roger. 🙂
V
I know this isn't up there in the deep spiritual discourse, but I thought summink was missing from that initial list - wasn't he also a reknowned 'lover' also... or did I just wish that on him? :confused: 🙂
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Trust V to come over all learned about this, but I was reminded of the murals in the King's bedroom of the Mattancherry Palace in Cochin, India - there's Krishna larger than life using all his arms and both legs, not to mention other appendages, to pleasure a number of women at the same time. He was such a renowned lover that when he danced with the Gopis in the rasa lila, each one of them thought he was dancing with her alone. And I do recall there was an instance of him hiding their clothes when they were bathing.....Baby Krishna was a bit of a handful too, stealing butter was his thing....But everyone loved him. Always.
xxx
I feel like writing, Sunanda, that what Krishna could do, in your last post - no prob. :rolleyes: But not a fitting comment for this thread, hey? :p
V
Sorry, but I can't agree with either of you. Isn't the whole point that Krishna was not a prophet but God incarnate. Wikipedia has the following:
so we're talking about a long long time ago.I can indeed imagine all that and don't see why its not possible. I'm sorry, Niranjan, I'm not putting your post down and have the utmost love and respect for Sri Krishna but I just don't believe that there's any need for any kind of spiritual one up manship where deities are concerned.
Hi Sunanda.:)
I am not trying to say that Krishna is superior to the other figures.That would be defeating the ideal of universalism there is in Hinduism, which reveres the divine in all religions.
I am only trying to pinpoint out this particular trait of Krishna, which I believe is important as well.
I don't believe there is nothing wrong in enjoying life, as long as one is detached from the sources of pleasures without any psychological clinging, as Krishna himself taught.
What I wish to emphasize through this post through Krishna's example is that spirituality does not need to be necessarily synonymous with pain and suffering, as some people erroneously feel.
You can enjoy life and be spiritual at the same time too. :dance:
What I wish to emphasize through this post through Krishna's example is that spirituality does not need to be necessarily synonymous with pain and suffering, as some people erroneously feel.
You can enjoy life and be spiritual at the same time too. :dance:
Oh, I couldn't agree with you more, niranjan. In fact, I've just come back from Spain where I was overwhelmed by the doom and gloom, the pain and the suffering depicted in the Catholic churches and cathedrals there. I have no idea how people can subscribe to a religion which tells them that God is wrathful and terrifying and will punish them for their sins. Or indeed that they are full of sin in the first place. I am all for joy and happiness. It's surely the whole point of being in a body at all.
From that point of view, I absolutely agree that Krishna is a very worthwhile deity to revere and worship; one who celebrates life and living, dancing and singing. Yes, I'm with you on that all the way.
xxx
Though the other figures don't all have complete biographies known to us today, and some people differ over whether they did or said or meant this or that - they were real, living, historical figures. (I'd class Gautama as just about historical, anyway.)
Well Krishna has his biography known to us through the Mahabharatha and Bhagavatham. Same too with the Buddha whose life is described in the buddhist scriptures , the Sutras.
Krishna is a deity. As wikipedia says: "a deity worshiped across many traditions of Hinduism in a variety of different perspectives".
Yes, Krishna is a deity , worshipped as God-incarnate, or as the Avatar of the Divine, as is taught in the Bhagavad Gita, the Mahabharatha and the Bhagavatham.
He's whatever people wish for him to be to them, but is not an historical figure who lived and has a life that we know of. He may be pure invention, to be blunt.
Krishna is worshipped as an Avatar of the Divine by more than a billion Hindus and is also worshipped by the Jains and the Buddhists. As for the 'historical figure part', the extensive scriptures mentioned above with respect to Krishna shows that such a person indeed must have existed.
Using your yardstick, we also then have to admit that the details of the lives of the other prophets , barring Mohammed ( who lived much closer to our era ) is also vague to a large extent.
It should be understood that Krishna lived 5000 years back,more ancient than the other figures, and accuracy will inevitably be a bit corroded with time.
Writings such as the Bagavad Gita, for example, were built up over time. It's symbolic, a composed poem, and not the actual events of that day.
This may be your educated opinion, but need not be necessarily true.
We believe that these events have happened. Also the Bhagavad Gita is a treatise that deals with advanced philosophy and metaphysics based on Krishna's discourse to Arjuna.
And the essence of Krishna's teachings keep manifesting in the enlightened masters of India from age to age, as in Adi Shankaracharya, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Shirdi Sai Baba, Meher Baba, Ramana Maharshi, Aurobindo, Paramahamsa Yogananda, Sree Narayana Guru, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Mata Amritanandamayi and others to the present age.
Scholars believe parts of it were composed or altered (on caste for example) by Brahmins to reassert their sway at a time when they were losing power and control.
If that is so, I must say that there is no substance in these beliefs. Krishna's teachings on caste has nothing to do with the birth based caste system, but only on the caste that has its basis on actions or karma or tendencies and the gunas sattva, rajas and tamas.
The Vedas and the Bhagavad Gita has nothing whatsoever to substantiate the birth based caste system which is nothing but a feudal structure akin to those in Japan, Europe and Russia.
You can see from the scriptures itself that Krishna lived among the cowherds during his childhood and adolescence, which were a lower caste in itself.
Also when he came to the Kauravas for diplomatic purposes , he refused their hospitality even though they were high-born kshatriyas, and accepted the hospitality of the saintly Vidura who was born of a shudra mother and who was noted for his wisdom and noble character.
There's no real birth-date for Krishna either, of course.
We have our own calendar in India, and Krishna's birthday is celebrated every year on Janmasthami with great pomp and celebrations.The present year according to the Hindu calendar is 5110 . It should be remembered in this context also that the western and arab numeral system comes from India and is based on the Hindu numeral system, and we have a long history with numerals and mathematics.
According to the western gregorian calendar , I believe that Krishna was born in July 20,3227 B.C close to the dates given by the scriptural details and astrological calculations.
All in all, then, Krishna is indeed different to the figures you also mention! They came to teach people how to live; as Sunanda points out, Krishna is supposed to be God (Vishnu) Incarnate - not a state we ourselves are exactly aspiring to, as we might, say, aspire to be like Jesus.
Krishna indeed came to earth to teach people and strengthen justice and righteousness, as was the purpose of his avatar. The Bhagavad Gita is nothing but Krishna's teachings on how to conduct oneself in life according to yoga.
(I don't believe Jesus did live a particularly austere life at all times, by the way, and certainly not always one of self-denial in the negative sense.)
I believe so too. Check out some of Jesus's teachings...
"A happy heart is good medicine and a cheerful mind works healing, but a broken spirit dries up the bones." Prov. 17:22
"A merry heart makes a cheerful countenance, but by sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken. All the days of the afflicted are evil, but he who is of a merry heart has a continual feast." (Pr 15:13,15)
I also sometimes like to think of 'Krishna' as a Hindu word for what in the West might be called the Christ-principle, or the potential for Christhood/Krishna-hood within all of us. 🙂
V
Yes, Krishna-consciousness, Christ-consciousness,buddha-consciousness, Allah -consciousness , cosmic consciousness are all one and the same.
"Truth is One; sages call it by various names .
--Rig Veda