Hinduism

RE: Hinduism

Hi Prashna

Thanks so much for the poem.

Ma Kali is always there for me. When things get tough I have to remind myself that I am not the doer. If I turn the problems over to her, then I no longer have the problems.

My blessings to you too.

Sunanda

RE: Hinduism

Thanks for the links, Prashna.

This has become a wide-ranging thread but I'm sure none of us mind that. I just had a meal with an English Hindu couple, of the Ramakrishna movement. Their son is employed as part of a fast-response aid team in Sri Lanka. My point, in the light of your links on Bangladesh too, is that we get to know so little on the mainstream news. The news I was told tonight, though I of course knew there is a Tamil Tiger problem, is that the death rate through the violence is up to 2,000 per month or 500 per week now in Sri Lanka. How often do we hear that on the TV news? Do they not consider it news? 😮

Venetian

RE: Hinduism

Hi Venetian,[sm=grouphug.gif]

All I know about you is that you are from Somerset and that your interests include 'truth'.

Well, that's a very GOOD Start.

You might not be interested to know that I have THREE Apple trees in my not-so-large garden. Big Deal, you say. Well, I did say "not-so-large"! In fact, it's quite small.

Well, tough! I am going to tell you anyway! Cox's Orange Pippin, Laxton's Superb and Bramley's Seedling. Well, you got a Taurus, what do you expect?

As for Venice, have you been there? I assume you have, from your moniker. What do you think of it?

Well, what has it all got to do with Hinduism? You are absolutely right, as usual. Oh, I hate you when you are right, ALL THE TIME!

What else are you right about? I have not got all day to list them, you know! And it's a lot!

You wrote "This has become a wide-ranging thread but I'm sure none of us mind that." Well, you are far too kind for your own good! I mind it for the simple reason that a long thread detracts from clarity. And clarity is crucial. If a message does not get through, what's the point in sending it in the first place?

So I shall start a new thread soon. But first let me tie up the loose ends here. Taurus' are 'fixed organisers' to an extreme fault.

For now, would you please thank the English Hindu couple that you mentioned on my behalf. Compared to their son, I feel so useless. But their son needs to be careful. Real bullets are flying in that area!

Thank you for just being there.

Prashna.

BTW, Rabindranath Thakur was a Taurus.

RE: Hinduism

Hi Sunanda,

Why do you trouble me so? You wrote "Ma Kali is always there for me. When things get tough I have to remind myself that I am not the doer." Well I am so delighted that Ma Kali is there for you as much as she is for me. In the last half a century, humans have failed me many times, although of course they have helped me more often. Ma Kali has never failed me. Not once, NOT EVER. And you know what? I don't expect her to! Now isn't that great.

A lot of people would say that you and I are deluded. And I could draw their attention to the pieces of paper that say I am most certainly not. But I won't. Instead I shall cite someone far better than me:

O Wilful Mother!

All is your will, Wilful Mother are you.
Your work you get done, yet people say that I do.

Entrap the mighty elephant in clinging mud, you do;
Get the lame to cross forbidding mountains, you do;
Give somethe sancred feet of Brahman, you do,
Yet allow others to sink into evil, you do.

I am the lifeless instrument, you are the player;
I am the empty house, you are the keeper;
I am the riderless chariot, you are the charioteer;
I only take the path that you find for me.

You also wrote: "If I turn the problems over to her, then I no longer have the problems. " Well, this is what Rabindranath Thakur, had to say on the subject (Only the translation is mine. I could not have fooled you anyway. So I better fess up, in advance)

In your Infinite Creation:

In your Infinite creation, with all my heart and all my mind;
However far I search, I find no grief, no death, no parting.
In ALL your Infinite creation...

Death puts on its fearsome mask, grief deepens its bottomless pit;
When I turn away from you, and look inward in my little self.

O Complete One! At your feet, whatever can be is all there, all there;
No fear exists, that is ALL MINE, Night and day I cry in my grief.

The gloom in my mind, the burden of life, lift in the blink of an eye;
When in my heart I realise, ALL your glory and ALL your self.

If you wish, I can give you the links to the original songs. You WILL enjoy hearing the beautiful Bengali songs and their sweet, sweet rendering, even though you may not understand. I hope that my translations will help a tiny little bit!

Regards.

Prashna.

RE: Hinduism

Hi there,
Sorry to barge in on this thread, and with such a pedantic message too. Just a thought on the post above regarding the meaning of the name sunanda; I think it's better to derive the name from the laudatory particle 'su' + the word nanda (from the verbal root nand), rather than ananda. Of course, the words nanda and ananda are related, but if you say the latter then you have to account for the dropping of the initial 'a' in the name, which is not possible.
It does of course mean 'delighting' or 'most-pleasing' and is also a name of Uma, as well as being used as a name for one of Krishna's wives.
Hope that may be of interest.

RE: Hinduism

Dear Prashna,

Just to reply to you on Venice, since you ask. ;)No, I'm not from Venice, though I've been there twice, and once as recent as last year. "venetian" was an old username from somewhere else and before I joined HP. I happened to choose it for HP, and I still have it three years on!

Venetian

RE: Hinduism

Hi Shankara,

Or should I say, "Dr. Livingstone, I presume"

You would know of course how familiar I am with your name(even if not with you personally) and how I revere that name. Maybe another day, I can quote from the Svetasvetara Upanishad, but it will have to wait.

You are right, of course. Simply for brevity (noy my strong point) I did not elaborate on Ananda. But now that you mention

Ananda = A + Nanda (from the root nand, I do not know what it means. Perhaps you could say)

I know that King nand raised Sri Krishna, but beyond that I really do not know at this time.

A = qualifyingprefix, as inAmul, orAmrityu and so on. Meaning right up to, or to the root of or more simply utterly.

As for Shri Krishna's wives, I am sorry. I need to be silent on that, as I am of the Advaita Vedanta stream of Sanatana Dharma.

Anyway, enjoy this forum. I couldn't ask for a more delightful host than Venetian or more enjoyable companions than Sunanda, Moonfairy and so many others. I hope you find it as rewarding as I do.

Regards. 😉

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

Hi Venetian,

You have been to Venice, twice, you say. Just as well, before it sinks completely.

At the present rate of global warming, it should not be too long!

I have been there only once, but it was truly delightful.

Regards. 😉

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

Namo namah MM1942, and hello to everyone else on this forum. Thank you for your kind words - I hope I didn't come across as too forward in my last post.
To your (MM1942)question, the Sanskrit root (dhatu) "nand" means to be glad, to rejoice, to be pleased etc.
I am glad also to hear you are a fellow advaita vedantin and I look forward to discussing all matters pertaining to uttama mimamsa with you.
Jaya Samskrtam.
Shankar.

RE: Hinduism

Brother Shankara,

At last! I have waited so long!

"uttama mimamsa" ? Surely, you mean, Uttara Mimamsa. I take it that you are familiar with the Upanishads.

You would know about Prashna Upanishad, then. It's from there, especially the fifth question, that I have borrowed my Miniker. A bit bold perhaps.

No need for namoh, of course, especially if you are an Advaitin. But I would prefer prashna. MM1942 is so impersonal.

Shanti.

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

By the way, dear Prashna,

My apologies in misunderstanding that you were not "internet shouting" :D. So many do. Of course, I understand and I also use capitals for emphasis wherever italics are not possible (or even if I'm in a hurry ...) .

In the box you type your reply into, just at the top of it, to the left, You'll see a boldB, an italicised I, and an underlined U. You highlight the text you want to effect by right-clicking the mouse and dragging the cursor over the text to high-light it. Keep it highlighted and then click on the B, I, or U for their effect. 😉

I'm also interested in how an Advaita Vedantin views those who worship or seek darshan with various deities, and also vice-versa (which I expect to be more liberal). I can start a thread on that, but not tonight. I'm reminded that Sri Ramakrishna seemed to be both, a foot in both camps. But perhaps that can be a new thread rather than yet another subject placed inside this one!

Venetian

RE: Hinduism

Prashna-ji,
Thank you once again for your kind words; I did, of course, intend 'uttara' instead of 'uttama' - a brief lapse in concentration, and I do appreciate your moniker of prashna. Perhaps Satyakama would be a more appropriate name for you(etad vai satyakama param caparam ca brahma yadonkarah)!
Maybe we could start another thread for this, but aside from the prasnopanisad, do you have any favourite texts - ones that are very dear to your heart?
Om shanti,
Shankar.

RE: Hinduism

I'm genuinely interested in how those holding to Advaita Vedanta tend in reality, not just written theory, to look upon deity-worship, so did begin a thread on this:

[link= http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=394578 ]http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=394578[/link]

RE: Hinduism

Hi Venetian,

You asked a question that can confuse most Hindus. So your puzzlement is understandable.

To avoid replying twice on this highly specialised topic, I shall post my response in the other thread in which Shankara replied to you.

With extreme competence even fluency, I might say.

Regards.

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

Hi Shankar,

It's difficult for me to use that name, for reasons that you will know better than most and that are well enough explained in Svetasvetara Upanishad. It's such an auspicious name and one to which every Hindu should be eternally grateful. For when Sanatana Dharma faced its greatest threat and near-oblivion, its greatest exponent was born (about 1218 years ago now). He carried your sacred name and saved Sanatana Dharma from extinction. Yet, how many Hindus even, let alone non-Hindus know that?

You asked a question that is almost impossible to for me to answer. Actually totally impossible. I know only four languages, have limited and fading vision and impaired hearing. But even if I knew a hundred languages, had the sight of a Shakun (Vulture, venetian), the hearing of a Whale, the speed in air of a Peregrine Falcon swooping down, in water of a dolphin diving; even then how could I describe ekakshara (pranab or aum^ to you venetian). And even if by some miracle, I could describe the first three phonemes, how would I describe the last, the silent one.

But I shall try:

Gita, of course. But I like Sri Sri Chandi, (Devi Mahatmyam) more, I am sorry to say.
BrahmaSutras, especially with Shankara Bhasya.
ALL the Upanishads.

I have already mentioned Svetasvetara. How can I leave out Chandogya, (the essential text for a vedantaTirtha). Or Mandukya, How would I chant the aum^ without it? Or Mundaka, or Taittiriya, or Brihad aranayaka? I can't leave out any. How can I?

Still Prashna 5 remains my favourite. I hope to tell you why one day.

But I would be grateful if you could answer some questions. Actually if you put as many of these info in your personal profile as you feel able to, that would be nice.

Where are you from and where are you located now? How and where did you learn such superb Sanskrit? How I envy you! How old are you and if it is not too much to ask what is your Sun Sign. Mine is Taurus, as you probably know already.

Have you read Isaac Asimov? I, Robot, The rest of the Robots, and The Foundation stories are the most favourite of mine.

Apart from being superb works of fiction, I believe these are the finest exposition of Sanatana Dharma since Sri Shankaracharyya.

aum^ shanti.

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

I read those Asimov books so long ago that I no longer really recall the content. Is Sanatana Dharma in there so clearly that you think or know that Asimov was conscious about doing it?

Venetian

RE: Hinduism

Pranams Prashna-ji,
Thank you for taking the time to pen such an inspiring and poetic answer - your breadth of reading and understanding is indeed admirable and rare in these times - even inside Bharata!
I too love Shankaracarya's bhasya on the Brahma sutras - particularly the catur-sutri for it contains in just 4 short commentaries the very heart and essence of the non-dual truth. Also, the mandukyopanisad and agama-shastra texts are quite beautiful too for in them are the seeds of Adi Shankara's own expression.
Your comments on failing and sight and hearing are sad - I hope you are not too troubled by them. Though I remember once sitting in a Meditation hall before an eminent teacher. Stands up one older gentleman "Oh, I am old now, and my sight is almost completely gone"
To which guru-ji replied "Count yourself lucky - you have one sense fewer to restrain!". All laughed, none so loudly as the questioner.
I haven't yet found the "profile" function, but will perhaps fill it out when I have a few spare moments. For now I will say I am a Gemini, and studied Sanskrit here and there, including Pune.
Yours,
Shankar

RE: Hinduism

Hi Shankar, <ok>

I shall try to post a thread on Sri Shankaracharyya on this MB soon. I would like you to look at it critically and correct my errors for I might make a lot. I am sure you have a lot of Acgarya's works but hereare even more:

1. [link= http://kids.swaminarayan.org/storytime/shankaracharya.htm ] http://kids.swaminarayan.org/storytime/shankaracharya.htm [/link] Good story AND acknowledgement of 3 canons of Hindu_D, Brahmasutra + Upanishads + Gita.

[link= http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/texts/shankara_works.html ] http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/texts/shankara_works.html [/link] COMPLETE works of Shankaracharyya.
[link= http://mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=local&newsid=34745 ] http://mangalorean.com/news.php?newstype=local&newsid=34745 [/link] News 20/10/06
[link= http://www.ambahouse.org/bhaja.html ] http://www.ambahouse.org/bhaja.html [/link] MohaMudgar (Bhaja Govindam) This home study course has 4 lessons. Course includes original Sanskrit verses, transliterated version, word to word meaning and brief commentary. There are 2 apprehension quizzes.
[link= http://www.kakaji.org/printsatsang_ele.asp?id=13 ] http://www.kakaji.org/printsatsang_ele.asp?id=13 [/link] SEVEN main streams discussed INC. Advaita, Bishshta Advaita and Dvaita.

[link= http://www.kamakoti.org/bhaja/bhaja.html ]http://www.kamakoti.org/bhaja/bhaja.html[/link] MohaMudgara and others excellent coverage.

You would be familiar with the MohaMudgara otherwise called Bhaja Gobindam. Many including myself would say that is his most moving work. Not there the brilliance and erudition of his Brahmasutra Bhasya or his bhasyas on the eight Upanishads. Only sheer beauty in essence. Venetian please read and enjoy.

In the others I mentioned, you will find analysis, that is sharper than a Ruby Laser. MohaMudgara is different. Here you see that rare gem, analysis AND synthesis combined. You see the total impersonality of Jnana Yoga combine with the total intimacy of Bhakti Yoga. Or the philosophy of 'neti' combine with that of 'eti'.

The purpose of analysis is dissection, looking deeper and deeper into a human body, or a scientifc theory, or a philosophical hypothesis. The purpose of synthesis is to put it together back into a working whole, to see the body function again, to see the theory find its fulfilment in application. You need both.

Shankara, please, it is easy for me to bamboozle Venetian with my knowledge. I don't think I have erred, but if I have, would you please correct me.

Don't concern yourself with my health, please. It's excellent for my 64 years. I have 20/20 vision, admittedly with spectacles, and I can still listen to the Rig verses and Sri Sri Chandi with delight. All I have to do is to turn up the volume control a bit on my television set, which is a nuisance. But I do have superb headphones if I ever need them.

Have you read Sri Sri Chandi (Devi Mahatmyam). If so, I shall recall a few verses from it. Venetian, this is where the story of Ma Kali is found.

I shall end with a poem for you. I think you of

RE: Hinduism

No Venetian,

And that's the beauty of it. I believe that Asimov never knew that page by meticulous page he was expounding the finest principles of Vedanta and Gita. And I never got a chance to meet him. Allow me to explain with his famous

Three Laws of Robotics:

1. A robot may not harm a human being or through inaction, allow a human veing to come to harm.

2. A robot must obey orders given to it by a human being, except when such action conflicts with the first Law.

3. A robot must protect itself, except when such action conflicts with the first or the second Law.

Substitute the word Robot with Yogin and human with 'sentient' and you have Advaita Vedanta.

If you don't believe me, ask Shankara. Only tell him that one of the instances I shall quote in support is the story of Shankaracharyya and the Tantrik and the tiger.

He will know.

Regards.

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

Thanks for the mystical translations, Prashna.

On Asimov, yes, I see it now. It's the story-line plots I don't remember after many years, but I do recall those Laws.

Venetian

RE: Hinduism

I'm with Venetian in saying, "bahu dhanyavad" for the beautiful verses. I can see Prashna that we are of the same mind in holding Bhaja Govindam as perhaps the most beautiful of Adi Shankara's works, and the story accompanying its composition only adds to its charms.
I used to sing this hymn all the time withone of my teachers (he was of the Nath lineage, and loved to chant) and your mentioning it only recalls the sweetness of those times and the beauty of moha-mudgara's composition. How lively it sounds in tripping off the tongue - like a dance almost.
One of my favorite verses is:

kastvam ko'ham kuta ayatah
ka me janani ko me tatah /
iti paribhavaya sarvam asaram
vishvam tyaktva svapnavicaram //

"Who are you? Who am I? From where have I come?
Who is my mother, who is my father?
In this way investigate everything, leaving the wholeworld aside, forit isessenceless, like a dream"

I have also one beautiful recording of this song, made, I think, by Chinmaya mission. If you can get hold of a copy you will be rewarded for your efforts. It is quite sublime.

Shankar.

RE: Hinduism

Hi there !

I am 'Bhaava-Vibhora' going through such an interesting and in-depth discussion on Hinduism.

Here I am, from New Delhi/INDIA a hindu by birth and following, widely studied, learned Sanskrit and Hindi languages alongwith English.

Thanks for such a delight on this forum.

namah to that GOD in you - Namaste !

Krishan

RE: Hinduism

anujA anubhooti,

It is delightful for me to welcome you. Not only for your belief but for your knowledge of Sanskrit. A knowledge that I have nearly lost through lack of use in this green and pleasant land.

But I have to say hello and goodbye. I shall try to express my feelings with another translation, for I have no light of my own. All I see ar a thousand Suns, each brighter than the the one before. All I can do is to reflect their brilliance, dimmed as it is by my dulled wit and intellect. As Sir Isaac Newton said:
"If I have seen further than others,
it is because I have stood on the shoulders of GIANTS."

But I shall be back. I leave you in the more than capable hands of Shankara.

Ayushmati bhabo.

Prashna.

anuja Shankara,

Yes I used to recite Bhaja Gobindam too. "kA taba kAntA kaste putrah" and so on.

Only I used to know it as mohaMudgara. Venetian, that word means:

mohamudgara = moha + mudgara = attachment + club.

The idea is to beat attachment with a club till it disappears and Brahman is seen.

Could you help me with one quotation please. I used to think it belonged to mohamudgara but it doesn't. Could either of you locate it for me, please:

"mA kuru dhano jano jaubana garbam,
kAlam harishyati nimesham sarbam..."

For Venetian.

Do not be proud of wealth, power or youth.
Kala snatches them all, in an instant..."

As the victims of the recent tsunami in SE Pacific can testify.

Now that temporary farewell:

The clouds murmured….

The clouds murmured, “We’re going, going
The night whispered “I’m nigh gone”
The ocean said “I’ve found the shore,”
My friend, “I’m no more”.

Grief whispered “I remain silent, like footprints on the sands of time”
I remembered “Union is all I seek, nothong more….nothing more.”

The Earth said “for thee awaits my garland of flowers”
The sky murmured “for thee twinkle a trillion stars”