Hinduism

RE: Hinduism

Hi Lim Wing

Well, I can very much identify with your feelings. I am myself what I occasionally call a 'born again Hindu'. (I am English, Christian background but non-practising) Since I first visited India ten years ago I have been very much drawn to the Hindu way of worship and love going to temples both in India and UK.

I don't know where in UK you are, but I can tell you that I have generally felt at ease in Hindu temples. Basically I have found that the priests and devotees tend to leave you alone unless and until you request help and information, in which case mostly they are delighted to help.

For me, the Hindu path of devotion (bhakti) is what resonates with me. I LOVE it....

good luck with your temple visits....

With love
Sunanda xxx

RE: Hinduism

lim wing, hi,

I am just chipping in to give my opinion that Sunanda is someone who knows her stuff on Hinduism!

She lives it.

I don't mean to point the finger at any other religion, but I find Hinduism one of the most approachable. If I go into a mosque, people - apart from in Tunisia - tend to ask what on earth I am doing there. If I go to a church in England, there always seems to be a clique, or they want to convert me! I just got told that last week! But my experience of Hinduism is that it certainly is not out to convert you, and nobody gives you a second look. Or - they want to feed you like you've never seen! :DIt's a very easy religion to join IMHO.

Venetian

RE: Hinduism

Hi David

Might have known I'd see you on this thread!

I remember reading somewhere that Hinduism is the only religion that is not interested in gaining converts. In fact, I have been told that you cannot 'become' a Hindu, you have to be born into it. Fortunately for me, all my Indian Hindu friends just take it for granted that I have certainly been Hindu during many lifetimes and I have never been denied admission to any of the Hindu only shrines in India. (Mind you, there have been a few occasions when I had to really really want to get in....before Ma granted permission!)

I should say too that I found 'learning' about Hinduism was more like 'remembering'. I find it almost impossible now to realise that there was a time when I didn't know the names and attributes of the Hindu pantheon nor how to worship in a temple - and yet that time was only ten years ago! Amazing.

Lim Wing seems to have disappeared again otherwise I would offer to accompany her to a Hindu ceremony. The festivals are just the best....in some cases very cathartic. One feels reborn.

with love
Sunanda xxx

RE: Hinduism

Hi Sunanda,

I don't really "take" to the pantheon as being real. I think they are symbols for energies.

I completed my part-MA into World Religions last year and it was certainly a theme that Hinduism has no interest in conversion. As you know.

It is also not a "religion" of course, as it is far broader than that. The no-desire to gain converts makes it feel very safe to me. Oh, and a high percentage of myHindu friends are white and English! 😀

V xxxx

RE: Hinduism

Hi all and Lim specifically,

This is my FIRST post here. I normally post in the BBC 'Eastern Religions' MB.If I can answer anyone's questions, I shall be happy to help.

I am a Hindu. I was born and brought up in India. I have lived in the UK for over 40 years now.So I know a fair amount about both cultures.

Answering Lim specifically, no problem whatsoever entering temples in UK or in the West. Just walk in, ask questions, take in the atmosphere, walk out. You will be very welcome.

Same in India in the OVERWHELMING majority of temples. You might get MINOR problems in a tiny minority of temples. But the represents less than 0.01% of the total number of temples in India.

I and many Hindus prefer to callit Sanatana Dharma or Vedantism. I KNOW that Hinduism is a MISNOMER. If anyone is interested I shall be happy to explain.

Oh about conversion. Absolutely correct. Hinduism does NOT seek to convert. End of story.

In fact if a Christian asked me how he can be a Hindu, my reply would be "be the best Christian you can be".

Of course, as a Brahmin and a Dvija, I know thatsome formal ceremonies are offered by some. But these are QUITE UNNECESSARY.

Namaste. 😉

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

Hi Sunanda,

You wrote:

"I have been told that you cannot 'become' a Hindu, you have to be born into it. "

Not correct. Anyone can become one, if they so desire.

Regards.

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

Hi Prasha,

As Sunanda noted up above, I'm not sure if the thread-starter, Lim, is still around? If he is, in his reading on Hinduism, but more so in his or anyone's experience of it, many people find it useful - or it just happens to them - to decide just what kind of Hindu "worship" he wants to engage in! There are many different practices, paths, ways.

On Hinduism being a "MISNOMER", yes indeed. There are past threads here either on that, or going into it. The word itself is a Western invention, from the early 1800s when 'we' started deciding what to classify as "world religions" which we then tended to name and put "ism" on the end! :D"Hindus" were not conscious of being such, and indeed you might say there was no "Hinduism" until the late 1800s, when groups such as the Brahma Samaj, and Ramakrishna's disciples, adopted the English term in order to give themselves some self-identity as a group to classify themselves as 'not the other' e.g. not Western Protestants.

I see that you misunderstand Sunanda, BTW. I'm pretty sure that she was not talking in some immensely technical way requiring discussion, but simply that by "you have to be born into it" means that though there are a few exceptions in which people really radically change personality, people tend to be born - anywhere in the world, and thinking themselves Hindus or not - with a "Hindu" or broad spiritual outlook, whereas others simply never seem to resonate with any form of 'Hinduism', don't understand it, etc.

Welcome to HP! There's been a lack of 'real' Hindus on this Hinduism sub-forum!

Venetian

RE: Hinduism

Namaste Prashna

I too would like to welcome you to HP. As David says we don't see too many 'real' Hindus on HP.

When it comes to 'Hinduism' being a misnomer, is it not true that there are many people who would call themselves Hindus who don't actually follow vedanta? Or would I have to distinguish between advaita vedanta and dvaita - monism and dualism.

I have friends in Tamil Nadu who are Brahmin priests in a large Siva temple and when I asked one of them what he thought of advaita, he replied 'Oh we don't have time for all that. We are too busy with the gods!'

As to some temples not admitting non-Hindus into the sanctum sanctorum, I have found this to be quite arbitrary. To be allowed into the Vishnu Temple in Trivandrum some years ago, I was required to obtain a 'certificate' from the local Sivananda ashram and also to wear a sari. Nowadays I gather that non-Hindus are allowed in on payment of a certain amount of money (but the ladies still have to wear saris and the men lunghis or dhotis and no shirts.) In the Sri Mookambika temple in Karnataka (my absolute favourite, my spiritual home) all are welcome, women can wear whatever they like but men have to take their shirts off and not wear coloured lunghis. I have seen some wonderful sights where pilgrims who arrive not knowing the clothing rule have been reduced to seeking admission in their boxer shorts or with a towel wrapped around their waists. I have asked the priests why the men have to go in shirtless (and vestless) and am told that Mother likes to see her children as they were when they were born - but that obviously doesn't make sense when it comes to women, who aren't required to be topless.

Hari om!
Sunanda

RE: Hinduism

Hi Sunanda, [sm=angel-smiley-027.gif]

I do not know, yet, how to address you, but that will come. If you are perplexed by that, just look at your moniker and recall what it means in Bengal, where I come from.

I think it's better to start by introducing oneself,because that avoids so many misunderstandings and makes life so much easier. I come from West Bengal from a relatively small village in Birbhum. That you may not recognise, but you do know about Rabindranath Thakur. My home village is just three stations down the line from Bolpur, Shantiniketan. Bengali is my Mother Tongue and so I am fortunate enough to be able to appreciate the full beauty of RabindraSangeet in its original form and content.

I learned Sanskrit in school and therefore am able to read the ancient texts with relative ease in the original. Those include Sri Sri Chandi (you know it as Devi Mahatmyam) from which your moniker is derived. I also qualified in German though sadly I have lost my proficiency due to non-use.

I qualified from India and UK as a Civil Engineer and have spent most of my life in academia. Now, I am 64 years of age,retired and intend to devotesome of my timeto promote true understanding of Vedantism. It's surprising how many Hindus, even in India, lack that. Oh I forgot, if you guessed that I am a man, you are right. Prashna is not my real name, but I like it because of what it means and what it stands for.

I have lived for quite some time in the township directly opposite Dakshineswar and therefore know about Sri Ramakrishna and Vivekananda very well. Of course I am able to read their writings in the original, which is both firtunate and nice.

I cannot tell you how delighted I am that you come from TamilNadu, that sacred land where Sri Shankaracharya, Ramanuja and Madhva taught. Sadly it has not been my good fortune to visit that sacred land, but I do know about them. Perhaps it's a case of absence making it fonder, or something like that.

I am sorry to have bored you. I shall stop now and not take up any more of your precious time.

Regards, Sunanda. 😉

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

Hello Prashna

How very nice to 'meet' you. (I have said on another thread that I am happy that I was young when the world was less complicated than it is today but by the same token I should say that I am delighted to be able to partake of the amazing leaps in technological innovation that have taken place in recent years!)

So, firstly, I must tell you that I imagined from your earlier posts that you were resident in the west: your English is too good to be a second language. But you have also made a mistake about me: I am not from Tamil Nadu. I am a 56 year old English woman who has been spending half the year in India for almost the past ten years, mainly in the South (TN and Kerala) but also I know a little of the North. Calcutta though I have never visited but Dakshineswar is high on my list of places to see.

My base in the south has been for some years the town of Tiruvannamalai which is the location of the ashram of Bhagwan Ramana Maharshi. I spend a lot of time in the ashram there.

I'm afraid I must confess that I don't know the meaning of my name in Bengali. It was given to me by Sri Mata Amritanandamayi in Kerala and I was told it means 'always happy', a condition I aspire to. Nor do I know the meaning of 'Prashna'.

Your post was a delight to read - not boring in the slightest - and I do hope that you will continue to visit this forum. There are many other topics which you may find of interest.

Om namah Sivaya.

Sunanda

RE: Hinduism

Hallo from me too, Prashna.

I'm not formally "Hindu" but in an online test "What religion are you?" out of very many options I scored 97% as Hindu at the top of the list. ;)I actually more closely belong to little-known global esoteric groups, but sofar as large 'religions' are concerned I identify most easily with Hinduism - with your kind actually, and not the recognition of all the gods and goddesses as being necessarily real. (Take the recent invention of Santoshi Ma for example.)

Funny you should mention Ramakrishna. I am English and live in England, though I've travelled and lived elsewhere. But here I came into contact with a small ofshoot group associated with the Ramakrishna organisation, and feel very close to them. So I'd like to visit Dakshineswar, certainly.

I did have a bad experience regarding Calcutta, and only about 4 years ago discovered what it was all about! In 1975 I arrived as a very young man and alone by train to visit Calcutta, and stepping out of the station there were just tens of thousands - maybe millions - of people lying in the streets along the river and so far as the eye could see. All were starving and looked ill. I was very young and couldn't handle this for long, and didn't visit Calcutta really. I imagined this is how Calcutta is - my apologies. Only a few recent years ago was it made clear to me by Indians here in England that this was the migration into Calcutta o the starving millions in 1975 from Bangladesh. You see, I knew nothing then of the news or of global affairs. So Dakshineswar I have yet to see.

I have a miniature version of R's Gospel which I usually take with me on any journey.

Anyway, introducing myself then, I am "not quite a full Hindu" but have no problem with being one at times. It's more that I am one, but other things as well.

Forgive me - I wasn't quite clear. You live in or near Calcutta now, then, and not in the West?

Regards,

Venetian

RE: Hinduism

Hi Sunanda,

Thank you for responding promptly. And for complementing me on my English "your English is too good to be a second language.". Well, it's not. Not any longer. It used to be once, but that was nearly half a century ago and 5000 miles away.

These days both I and my wife are fully bilingual. She is from Bengal too, the daughter of a Sanskrit scholar and writer, a PanchaTirtha as it happened ( He is no longer with us). Yet these days when we talk to each other at home, we often change to English and revert back to Bengali in half-sentence without a pause or discontinuity in expression or thought.

There is another reason why my "English is too good to be a second language" apart from total immersion for over four decades. Before I joined BengalEngineering College, I studied for two years at St. Xavier's College in Kolkata and had the good fortune of being taught by Father Lewis in English. When I came to UK to commence my Master's course in Civil Engineering, he certified my command of English as 'Excellent' acting on behalf of the adjudicating Authorities as he had been asked to do. But since I have taught for over quarter of a century in one of the largest Universities in the UK at all levels upto First degree and beyond. So I have been fortunate to have been trained well.

Now the meaning of Sunanda. I shall give you the Sanskrit meaning because it's more significant in Sanskrit than in Bengali.

Ananda = a state of joy. Very significant as the last part of the only description of Brahman, sat + shit + Ananda = sachhidananda

Su= Good or auspicious.

Sunanda = Auspicious state of joy. (Actually this word is so rare. I have never encountered it. The feminine form, in contrast, is common and well-known.

SunandA, which is your name = As above, but the last vowel sound changes to indicatethe feminine gender.

I have delibearately put 'A' to indicate the phonetics
a I shall use to indicate the sound as in the English word "all"
A as in "father".

My nick name:

Prashna = question or to indicate a questor. That would be at a simple level.

At a higher level, Prashna is one of the Upanishads (the Prashna Upanishad)

It consists of a series of questions, the fifth of which is extremely significant. You are using it all the time, probably without realing it.

The fifth question deals with aum^, its nature and significance. It's the most significant word in the WHOLE of Sanatana Dharma. You write it as 'Om', probably not realising that you are indicating the pranab, or the Brahmanitself.

As for the lovely picture of Ma Kali beside your name, that would have to be another posting.

Regards. 😉

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

Hi Venetian,

THank you for your welcome. Please allow me to answer you precisely. Born 1942. First 23 years in West Bengal. Graduated 1961. Worked as professional Engineer in Bengal. Came to Leeds UK in 1965, . In UK ever since. Worked as a University Lecturer. Retired 1993. Lazed since, well not quite. Currently and for the last 39 years in the North West of England.

You wrote "In 1975 I arrived as a very young man and alone by train to visit Calcutta, and stepping out of the station there were just tens of thousands ...". I know very well the tragic situation you describe. But that WILL have to wait another day. It's the story of one of the worst acts of genocide since WW2, largely unknown in the West. But coming from Bengal, I know it's horrors only too well, though I try to forget.

But West Bengal is NOT like that. It is EXACTLY as Rabindranath Thakur described, in "BAnglAr mAti, bAnglAr jal..." for example. You know him as Tagore and his most famous work as GitAnjali, for which he was the first Indian to be awarded a Nobel Prize.

Oh, you also wrote "I am "not quite a full Hindu" Well , I know quite a few full Hindus, who are far less Hindus than you are. You also wrote "It's more that I am one, but other things as well." Well, I am surprised you wrote that. Isn't everyone? Am I not "other things as well?"

Don't answer that please, I am just being childish. After all, I am only a Taurus.

Regards. 😉

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

Hi again Prashna

So you have spent many years in UK? But now live in Calcutta? Now I understand....

Ma Kali is my Ishtha Deva. That's why I want to visit Dakshineswar. Like Venetian I am also a 'fan' of Sri Ramakrishna.

Thank you for your explanation of the Bengali meaning of my name. I was hugely tickled once to read that Sunanda Devi was the twin sister of Ananda Devi, the great peak in the Himalayas.

Good night.
With love
Sunanda

RE: Hinduism

ORIGINAL: sunanda

So you have spent many years in UK? But now live in Calcutta? Now I understand....

Hi Sunanda,

Seems clear to me that Prashna has retired and still lives in the NW of England ... 😉

RE: Hinduism

Hi Venetian,

" retired and still lives in the NW of England "Only from teaching Engineering... I have worked in a number of roles since, including various consultancies, acting as 'Expert Witness' to Courts, gathering yet more pieces of paper and so on. Learning never stops except on death...

You might have read this Sanskrit verse, which I translated some time ago:

Division cannot diminish it,
Thieves cannot steal it,
Giving it away only increases it!
Learning is truly the gem among gems.

If that does not ring a bell, here is the transliteration. I don't really like to write Sanskrit slokas in Roman script, because the loss is so drastic. Yet I just don't know any other way to cite the original.If you know a better way, I would be grateful ifyou could tell me.

Gyatirvi bantate naibo, chourenapi na niyate.
DAnenoibo kshaiam jati, bidyaratnam mahAdhanam!

Yes, I live in Merseyside, between the rivers Mersey and the beautiful Dee.

I am so happy that you carry R's gospel with you. I hope you would not mind my recalling a little story from R's life.

One day, a devotee asked R. It's alright for you and the Sanyasin in the Math. You can chant Ma, Ma without a second thought. But we householders have a living to earn, mouths to feed, place a roof over our family! What do we do?

R smiled. Just think of your dehati jhi. She works in your house all day, cooking, sweeping, washing, looking after your children. But she too hasmouths to feed; in distant Bihar that she can afford to visit only twice a year. What does she do for the rest of the year?

She works for you, sincerely and devotedly, yet her mind remains with her children and distant family. She has no education yet she manages that without problem. Why can't you, who are so well educated?

Why can't you work for a living and care for your family; yet keep your mind always focussed on Ma Kali?

May I say how much I appreciate your hosting this forum and express my gratitude.

Thanks again, 😉

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

Hi Sunanda,

I like the picture of Ma Kalibeside your name very much. No that's a lie, I absolutely adore it. From that it's obvious thatMa Kali is your Ishta DevatA, as she is mine. So you might have heard at least a few ShyamaSangeets by now. Being Bengali, I have a collection of those.It is difficult for those not fluent in Bengali to appreciate those.In that sense, you were right in stateing that it's not possible to convert to Hinduism, but necessary to be born in it. In my 40 years in Britain, I have known only one Englishman who is truly fluent in Bengali, William Radice of SOAS. You may have heard of him. Yet even he would have difficulty FULLY appreciating what I am about to write.

I translated this some time ago and it needs a revision. But here is the as yet unrevised version:

NO TIME...

I find time for all my work, yet not for calling you!
I seek not your company, onlythat of my friend and family!

I roam about in fruitless errands, yet never visit you!
I eat and drink and make merry, yet never try the nectar of your love!

I sing countless songs in hearty abandon, yet fail to sing to your glory!
I see near and far with my worldly eyes, yet never open my inner eye to you.

Othersservice I dedicate my life to, yet never at your feet!
I teach everyone rights and wrongs, only never to my own mind.

To help you recognise that song, here is the transliteration of the first line of the original (in Bengali) :

Ami sakala kAjer pAi he samai, tomAre dAkite pAi ne!

Enjoy.

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

I just wanted to say a warm welcome to HP to you Prashna, and to let you know how much I am enjoying your postings. I know very little about hindusim so am finding it extremely interesting.

Thank you so much for your contributions to this forum. I look forward to reading some more in due course.

Best wishes
x

BTWyou might also like to pop along to our new members' forum and say Hello here. I call it our 'meet and greet' forum. You are sure to get a good welcome here.

RE: Hinduism

Dear Prashna,

In response to the end of your post to me, we are the blessed for your presence here

I'm also posting just to say that your quote of Sri Ramakrishna's anecdote prompts me to say that though he was "uneducated" in the formal sense [uneducated! him! - as they write in Western emails, LOL ], I have never ever found anyone whose life is recorded to be better at instantly coming up with an inexhaustable fount of superbly apt anecdotes, allegories and parables. Ramakrishna was the story-teller par excellence, was he not? It must have made being in his presence so riveting, since he wasn't just spouting dry theory, but would usually colour it with one such story after another.

I'd recommend his Gospel to anyone!

Sincerely,

Venetian

RE: Hinduism

Hi Moonfairy,

Thank you for your very kind words. I am just up to my neck with jpbs today. So I cannot reply to your words in the words ofRabindranath, so many years ago. You would not know the poem. It starts "e monihAr AmAi nAhi sAje" "this garland of jewels becomes me not".

He wrote that immediately after Jalianwallabagh. You have seen that tragic event in the film: Gandhi.

Anyway I shall post that translation maybe tomorrow. Meanwhile here is another for you to ponder upon:

Morning Dew.

Over many years have I wandered in distant countries,
____To see mountains and oceans, canyons and glaciers.
But as I stepped out of my home, I forgot to lower my eyes,
____ On one drop of morning dew on one blade of grass!

Yes I shall visit that other forum, soon.

Thank you again.

Prashna 😉

RE: Hinduism

Morning Dew.

Over many years have I wandered in distant countries,
____To see mountains and oceans, canyons and glaciers.
But as I stepped out of my home, I forgot to lower my eyes,
____ On one drop of morning dew on one blade of grass!

Hi Prashna, I loved this poem. Thanks for this. Unfortunately I must be one of the few people who haven't seen the film Ghandi.Oh dear. Maybe I'll rent it now though.:D

Hope your chores go well. Don't work too hard.

Best wishes
x

RE: Hinduism

ORIGINAL: MM1942

You wrote "In 1975 I arrived as a very young man and alone by train to visit Calcutta, and stepping out of the station there were just tens of thousands ...". I know very well the tragic situation you describe. But that WILL have to wait another day. It's the story of one of the worst acts of genocide since WW2, largely unknown in the West. But coming from Bengal, I know it's horrors only too well, though I try to forget.

By sheer coincidence, I just came across a few lines about this period in a book. Obviously I could look up the whole story right now on the internet. But I just now read that there was a "war" in the early 1970s, resulting in about 10 million fleeing Bangladesh as refugees into Bengal. This will be when I arrived in Kolkutta, arriving at Howrah Station, and stepping out found myself looking along the river banks and toward Howrah Bridge, with all outside floor space covered with bodies so far as my eye could see.

You see, I was oblivious then, in youth, to geopolitics and to any news. I knew nothing of any war, and took this to be 'normal Calcutta'! And even until today, I didn't realise that Bangladesh was only formed in the 1970s? I know it used to be East Pakistan, but didn't know about a war.

Venetian

RE: Hinduism

Hi sunanda,

What attracted you to Ma Kali? I am intrigued.

Prashna

RE: Hinduism

Hi Moon Fairy, [sm=love-smiley-009.gif]

You will know me soon enough! And then you will NOT like me.

Of that, I am certain.

But the Huntress likes me, and what more could I possibly want?
SunandA cites the huntress. I hope she knows what she is citing!
Actually, she is SO GOOD, that I really believe she does. You might find out about her here:

[link= http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/5229/kali/kali.html ]http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/5229/kali/kali.html[/link]

But while you still like me, allow me to translate a little piece for you. From RamPrasAda (a famous devotee of Ma Kali), as it happens;

With eyes closed.....

“With eyes closed, some see light;
_____And others see nothing at all.
Some say the water is only knee-deep,
_____Yet others need to paddle.

Some say He is Love itself:
____Some see only despair.
Some say he comes when called;
­­­____Some say never, never.

Some say he is BEYOND all qualities,
____Some say he IS all qualities;
Some say he is the contained,
____Some say he is the container.”

Some see Him as the fearsome KAli,
___ Others see Him as the BanaMAli. (Sri Krishna)
Some see Him as false superstition,
___ Others see Him as nirAkAr. (formless)

Kanta says realise Him yourself;
___ push the arguments to one side.
Not this but that, or not that but this,
___ is aimless wandering in a maze.

Enjoy. 😉

Regards.

RE: Hinduism

Hi Prashna

I'm so sorry not to have replied to you before now but I am really tied up at the moment (metaphorically speaking rather than literally!:D)

I shall be happy to answer your question as to what 'attracted' me to Ma Kali some time in the near future when I can give you a full reply rather than just dashing off some facile paragraph now, when I am weary and not really concentrating. I really should just say though that She just caught me on her line and reeled me in like a fish. More later....

Love from
Sunanda

RE: Hinduism

Hi sunanda, [sm=nature-smiley-008.gif]

You wrote "She just caught me on her line and reeled me in like a fish." Well, you know Ma Kali; She is like that. Good fisherwoman, I say, instantly recognises who to reel in. I got caught in her tractor beam, a long time ago now. There is no escape from her grasp. I think of her as "The Black Hole". Not even light escapes, never mind us little flies!

That's why she is black. Did you ever think that? Even light does not escape her pull. That's why she cannot be seen and therefore black.

I look forward to your story. Meanwhile here is a little present, I translated just now for you. Enjoy:

your name

Let your name cleanse every word of mine;
Let your name be preserved amidst my silence.
Every drop of my blood every breath of mine;
Let your name fill with eternal peace and delight.

When I wake up after a night’s sleep
Among fading stars let your name still twinkle.
Let your name draw on my awakening brow
Awareness of your presence in the glow of dawn.

In all my wishes and hopes, let your name burn bright
In all my devotion and love, let your name be written.
Let your name shine through my work, when it is done;
Let me treasure your name in my tears and my laughter.

In the lotus of my life, let me hide the honey of your name
To offer you as I pass away, you are my love
My only love.

Let your name cleanse every word of mine;
Let your name be preserved amidst my silence.

Bless you.

RE: Hinduism

Hi Venetian,

What you saw was the hundreds of thousands of Hindu and some Muslim hapless people who left their homes with nothing. Fleeing from the terror launched by General Yahya Khan, the then Military ruler of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. There were several UN resolutions, all suppressed by the mighty USA, protecting its SEATO ally. To reach thE SAFETY of India. Kolkata and Howrah station was one of the nearest places of PHYSICAL safety.

If you search the UN archives you can still find these. But here is an account that you do not have to search for.

[link= http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html ] http://www.gendercide.org/case_bangladesh.html [/link]

The site gives links to five books that record the atrocities.

For your convenience, here is my summary in my own words.

February 22, 1971 – General (President) Yahya Khan authorises genocide, kill 3 Million if necessary (Background, Para 4)

March 25, 1971 – Genocide launched (7,000 killed in Dhaka in first night). 30,000 killed within one week.

April, 1971 – 30 Million people (ESTIMATED) wandering helplessly to escape the soldiers from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. TEN MILLION Refugees flee to India (out of a total population of 75 Million).

Gendercide against Bengali MEN - Pakistan Army sought out those most likely to join the Resistance. Bodies in Rivers, fields, near Army camps created a reign of sheer terror.
Especially see the FOURTH paragraph of the section, where Rummel’s description reminiscient of the Nazi procedure towards Jewish males are described.

GENDERCIDE AGAINST BENGALI WOMEN - First paragraph cites gang rape and murder. 200 to 400 THOUSAND women were raped, most of them Muslim, reflecting the population breakdown. But Hindu and Christian women were NOT exempt.

Paragraph FIVE reports that some women had been raped EIGHTY times in one night in the Pakistan Army’s Barracks.

The rapes, abductions and forcible prostitutions continued even after the first 267 days of the genocide.

HOW MANY DIED? (Last but one section) No records kept. The best estimates are between ONE and THREE Million. That was over ONLY 267 DAYS ! That makes it as one of the WORST GENOCIDES in the history of mankind!

There was a Muslim young woman who had just qualified from the University of Dacca as a Doctor. She lived through the SUBSEQUENT horrors and recorded it in a short booklet called <b><color=red> LAJJA </color></b> It was promptly banned in Pakistan and Bangladesh. You can find the English translation in Amazon if you search for Lajja, or Shame or Tasleema Nasreen.

That's her name and this is her official website.
[link= http://taslimanasrin.com/ ]http://taslimanasrin.com/[/link]

She had to flee her native land and has lived ever since in the West under an Islamic death sentence or fatwa.

I AM SORRY to have troubled you with this.

I am sorry.

RE: Hinduism

Dear Prashna,

Thank you for the summary and for the links.

It is no trouble to me. I like for the truth of any situation to come out and to be widely known. I was just a schoolboy during this, and perhaps it was not much reported on Western news anyway, but in any case I had no interest in world news at that age.

It is indeed a huge genocide which to this date is very little known of. I suspect few who read this thread will know of it. Certainly the aerage Western person doesn't, as you will know. (I even arrived into the aftermath, not knowing a thing about what to expect in Kolcotta. And I just thought in the end that it was starvation - a famine. I didn't know of the planned genocide.

I must have been in the East and travelling when Ravi Shankar talked to George Harrison about this, and the concert, and then single, and then album, of the Concert for Bangladesh was organised. I find it quite an impressive musical concert, and I've no doubt al who organised it, and all who went or bought the records, were well-intended. But all the same it came, from what you and I saw, not only too late, but as a grain of sugar when a 10-pound bag was required. Moreover, to this day the 1970s Bangladesh problems seem only to be remembered as a "famine". I don't know anything of them being, at the Harrison concert, or to this date, being called a planned genocide. I just assumed the crops had failed!

Venetian

RE: Hinduism

Hi Venetian,

At least you have a graphic idea of what genocide means, how the people of Darfur are suffering right now and under what conditions are they fleeing the atrocities.

As for Bangladesh, I regret to say that the violence there is continuing right now. Outside of Iraq, it has now the highest rate of killings in SE Asia. These links will give you some idea:

[link= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6093742.stm ]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6093742.stm[/link]

[link= http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E2304E10-6682-4B68-89AE-17F69944ACE5.htm ]http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E2304E10-6682-4B68-89AE-17F69944ACE5.htm[/link]

[link= http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200610/200610280012.html ]http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200610/200610280012.html[/link]

[link= http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-10-30T153742Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-274226-1.xml ]http://in.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-10-30T153742Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_India-274226-1.xml[/link]

Regards.

Prashna