This follows on from a discussion on a previous thread ([link= http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=269276&mpage=1&key=?? ]Devotion and Love in Hinduism[/link]).
ORIGINAL: Sacredstar
Is it not also true David that Shiva is also portrayed dancing? And one of his titles is Lord of Dance.
It is not also true that the Temple dancers were called devadasis ("servants of GOD"). They have emulated Shiva for thousands of years. In addition to dancing these women honour the dieties and convey the divine feminine energy to male worshippers through the sacred act of creation e.g. the cosmic dance of sexuality.Perhaps you and Cub could enlighten us further on this type of love and devotion in Hinduism.
Not sure what to say on the love and devotion bit, but Shiva is the Lord of the Dance. It however has a purpose. It is the dance of destruction. In the trinity of Creation (Bramha), Preservation (Vishnu) and Death (Shiva), Shiva always seems to have the last card to play, as without an end there could be a no new beginning. From that comes the idea of endless rebirth/renewal. For me, this has always cast a positive light on the idea of death - it's merely the end of a chapter. Along with the dance is an emphasis on rhythm. Shiva traditionally beats a drum. For me, this again harks back to the rhythm of life (and death), showing that it's a two sided coin.
There is a sexual element to the dance of destruction as He supposedly dances with such abandon and is naked. But I wonder how much of the interplay between men and women using dance over the centuries has been socially driven? I'm not sure that temple dancers were dancing exclusively for men - traditionally in some parts of India only men were allowed to dance, and dressed up as women.
Cub
RE: Heavenly dance
Thanks, Sunanda, for letting me know about the programme on the Sufis. I watched it this evening and enjoyed the mesmeric whirling of the dervishes :D. And David, my partner and I are tempted too to make a trip to Fez for the international music festival one day - sounds like a truly pleasurable holiday.
Someone wondered earlier in the thread why the Sufis don't take political control and overcome the hardline approach of the fundies [LOL - funny expression!). What I enjoyed about the prog was that the emphasis was on working on the inner spirit. I almost used the phrase 'control the inner spirit', but I think it's learning to grow with the inner spirit and 'proving' it to make it more flexible. When the inner is what matters, what need have you to control others? They have their own lessons to learn. By focussing on the positive in your life you will draw those very same good feel vibrations in and around you!
The hypnotic trance of rhythm, movement and music of dance seems to be a release for the human spirit to reach for the heavens (remember the Morrocan ladies who healed through their mystical singing?). I find that image inspiring. I don't mind what others are doing. In the throes of dancing I'm safe and protected. I live in the moment. I am at one with the spirit of God. What more do I need?
Cub
RE: Heavenly dance
Hi Cub,
Just to agree yet again on the "destruction" meaning and Shiva. In particle physics, at least at the theoretical level, there are particles which are naturally formed or 'appear', exist for a brief span, and then are un-formed once more. Yet matter-energy is made up of these particles, though they only work by coming and going.
Yes, those who believe in reincarnation have much less (if any) fear of death, I'm sure. I've also found it a huge solace when others pass on as they are not really 'gone' - in fact some I know may be 'back' by now.
On the Sufis and politics, I can see from the programme that they may not be interested in politics per se (as I suggested above), or may just be keeping their heads down (such as in Iran) - but it was an eye-opener to me as most of my previous knowledge of Sufism was simply from books - Idries Shah's but also others. Here, in books, a very different picture is painted: of Sufis as being secret, 'hidden' groups with secret meeting places - not flats as in the prog :Dbut mysterious underground villages etc., and are depicted as being very politically active behind the scenes - prime movers in fact - yet clearly the fundies have won in Iran, in much of Afghanistan outside Kabul, and are present elsewhere. But it was interesting to see Sufism with a broad and large public face, and people as you say concentrated on their art (and God), not, it seemed, on worldly affairs.
V
RE: Heavenly dance
Dear Cub et al
I am acquainted with Ardhanarishvara (Southern spelling!) but didn't know that the melding of Siva and Parvati came about through dance. Thank you for this. This subject is so fascinating: doors just open and open.
I am so glad you enjoyed the Sufi programme; I too was inspired by the Festival of Sacred Music in Fez. I just looked it up on the web and it seems next year's festival will take place between 3-11 June. Wouldn't it be wonderful to go? If we could get a little group together, I doubt if it would be too costly. Unfortunately, it will be more difficult for me to organise it from India but, off the top of my head, I bet STA Travel could put a little package together - or all bookings could be done by internet. Now I'm getting ahead of myself, but I know I wouldn't go alone so how about it?
Love
Sunanda xxx
RE: Heavenly dance
I wouldn't rule it out, but can't promise at this stage. Wow, what an HP get-together! Why don't we pencil in our names even if the chances are just 5 percent for ourselves right now? So I'm in.
I'd want to do it real economy-style, no Western hotel etc. If it could just be the return flight for a week, say, food is nothing, and then some kind of local-style accomodation. I was in Morocco in the 70s and 80s and local-style could be almost nothing - though I guess in Fez it all rockets in that week...
Venetian
RE: Heavenly dance
HP goes on holiday! Cool, it wouldn't be so difficult in catching up with the posts as you guys would be computerless too! 
Happy to pencil it in. Don't think my partner, Polar Bear, could do without air conditioning in the height of summer tho', David. He melts in our British summers what with global warming and all ruining his natural habitat! We don't have to stay in the same hotel, so long as we can find each other easily. I guess best time to look into flights etc. would be in the new year.
Cub, xx
RE: Heavenly dance
I really am just finely pencilled in as I really should be going elsewhere too on a very expensive trip indeed. So we'll see.
Yes, the heat will be something. I was once in Marrakech in July or August, and it reached 130 F. I have a conversion chart here but it only goes up to 90F which is 33C. :DWater bottles aplenty needed.
RE: Heavenly dance
I've just realised that it will probably clash with the World Cup. How sad is that?
RE: Heavenly dance
Oh! VERY sad as it makes me rethink instantly. [&o]
But I WAS in Morocco for the 1986 WC, all of it. I saw every England game as they show it in their version of pubs, which is the cafes. I almost got lynched for cheering just once when England actually played Morocco in that (0-0).
It's be a bit of a clash but for the Mexico '86 time zone games it just involved getting into a cafe at 4 pm.
V
RE: Heavenly dance
oh... did football culture club get moved? 😉
well i was in portugal for the 2002 WC... and yes, we went to bars for the early kick offs... i think one of the england matches was a 7.30am of some such. full english, washed down by beer for some (ugh!) and footie... great fun! but we chose our venue wisely... some bars were not good fun!
i'll nip back to where i belong now :eek::D
RE: Heavenly dance
Too hot for me sadly 😉 So I will settle for the world cup!
being love
Kim xx