Worshipping false idols

RE: Worshipping false idols

Dear Matthew,

I can clearly see the point you are making. What strikes me though is that, apart from the few people who have passed on and then been resuscitated (or raised through understanding prayer) on their death beds, no-one (especially as far as I am aware on HP) can speak with experience about this subject, so it is all in the realms of hypothesis and really there’s no point arguing about it! 😉

I feel that death is utterly unique to each individual, but I’m sure that if we really do understand that life is eternal and that there is nothing to fear, that it can be a peaceful and even joyful experience. However, very few of us, as you say, would go without deep regrets for things not done, unkindnesses not cleared up, resentments not forgiven and above all for not telling and showing others how much we appreciate and love them.

In all the near-death experiences I have read, the individuals experience a bright light shining and a wonderful sense of peace and bliss that defies human description (I felt and saw this once during an out of body experience following a healing, but I was not near death and there was no tunnel). In each case I have read, they have not wanted to come back.

Mary Baker Eddy discovered Christian Science on what should have been her death bed and she writes of this experience:

St. Paul writes: "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." This knowledge came to me in an hour of great need; and I give it to you as death-bed testimony to the daystar that dawned on the night of material sense. This knowledge is practical, for it wrought my immediate recovery from an injury caused by an accident, and pronounced fatal by the physicians. On the third day thereafter, I called for my Bible, and opened it at Matthew ix. 2. As I read, the healing Truth dawned upon my sense; and the result was that I rose, dressed myself, and ever after was in better health than I had before enjoyed. That short experience included a glimpse of the great fact that I have since tried to make plain to others, namely, Life in and of Spirit; this Life being the sole reality of existence. (Miscellaneous Writings p 24)

She also describes this experience in Science and Health on page 108 and the marginal heading is; “Light shining in darkness.” The understanding that came to her was so clear that she was able to heal thousands, including those close to death and in a few cases, those who it appeared had already passed on. Interestingly, the early Christians carried on Jesus’ healing work and not only healed the sick but also raised the dead until the time of Constantine when the vital spark was lost (except to a few enlightened individuals throughout history). Irenaeus, the leader of an important Christian group in provincial Gaul in the second century wrote that many newcomers came to Christian meeting places hoping for healing, and some found it: “We heal the sick by laying hands on them, and drive out demons,” …”We even raise the dead, many of whom are still alive among us and completely healthy.”

Eddy described death as: “the great fear that besets mortal existence”, so you have an ally there! 🙂

When it is learned that disease cannot destroy life, and that mortals are not saved from sin or sickness by death, this understanding will quicken into newness of life. It will master either a desire to die or a dread of the grave, and thus destroy the great fear that besets mortal existence.

The relinquishment of all faith in death and also of the fear of its sting would raise the standard of health and morals far beyond its present elevation, and would enable us to hold the banner of Christianity aloft with unflinching faith in God, in Life eternal. (Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures p 426)

Love and peace,

Judy

PS I'm puzzled as how we got from worshipping false idols to the fear of death! 😀

RE: Worshipping false idols

ORIGINAL: Principled
PS I'm puzzled as how we got from worshipping false idols to the fear of death! 😀

I think it's a very tenuous link between peoples need to worship and believe in something to assist them with their fear of death (assuming people do fear death that is).

Ideally, if we want to continue the topic of fear of death, in a spiritual/religious context, then I would suggest that whoever wishes to do so, starts a new thread in this same forum for that topic, and we focus mainly on the worhipping of (false) idols in this thread.

Love and Reiki Hugs

RE: Worshipping false idols

"In all the near-death experiences I have read, the individuals experience a bright light shining and a wonderful sense of peace and bliss that defies human description (I felt and saw this once during an out of body experience following a healing, but I was not near death and there was no tunnel). In each case I have read, they have not wanted to come back."

Of course we need to know the information on these individuals belief systems. If they are a religious person to start with then it's no surprise that they would "see" a light or something in that sense. LSD, a powerful hallucinogenic drug, can make any person "see" things that they don't normally see. Not to say that religious people take LSD, but I'm saying that the mind can make anything visible depending on the situation if one 'Wants' to believe it to be.

How many athiest near death cases have you read about in comparison to religious near death experiences? I'm sure you would get a much different story from them, or does it just prove my point that in any near death situation.. anyone will believe in anything for comfort of the situation?

"and I told her that luck had nothing to do with it."

How many times have you taken a diffrent route, be it on the road or other times in life, and nothing has happened, but when something does happen you take notice? When does convenient coincidence prevail as a sign from God?

"Agreed, it is purely down to subjective interpretation. When dealing with the subjective, there is no such thing as misinterpretation as that is purely your own subjective interpretation. "

I'll agree with you that your interpretation in your own subjective understanding is correct; however don't forget that many people misinterpret what other people have said or written. So one can indeed "misinterpret" or "be misinterpreted" no matter how subjective or objective the situation may be.

RE: Worshipping false idols

oblivionlord,

just for your info, you can quote sections of peoples posts either by using the quote button at the top right of their post or by including the text you want inside quote tags e.g.

 
Original: Energylz
 This is something quoted by Energylz
 
 
 And then your text goes outside the quote tags.
 

Altermatively you may highlight a section of text in someone's post and click the reply button at the top of their post, which will automatically quote that section of text in your reply window.

Love and Reiki Hugs

RE: Worshipping false idols

Original: oblivionlord
How many athiest near death cases have you read about in comparison to religious near death experiences? I'm sure you would get a much different story from them, or does it just prove my point that in any near death situation.. anyone will believe in anything for comfort of the situation?

Well I've heard frequent stories of atheists having near death experiences, who come back and are converted to relgion because of the experience.
However, as you say, the mind is very powerful, and they may be influenced simply by their own knowledge of religous people's near death experiences.

Love and Reiki Hugs

RE: Worshipping false idols

My point would be to ask why we are discussing this? Oblivion lord may well be scared of death or dying....other people are not. Sorry, but I wonder why it matters. We're all going to discover who's right and who's wrong at some future date. Meanwhile you might like to ponder a passage in the latest Conversations with God books (this one is called Home with God and talks a lot about what happens at death) where 'God' says - through Neale Donald Walsch - that whatever you believe death to be, that is what death will be for you. So as I have no fear, my death will be wonderful. But someone who fears descending into hellfire will indeed do so. Interesting theory eh?

With love
Sunanda xxx

RE: Worshipping false idols

Indeed you are right Sunanda.
Enough of the talk of death, unless it relates specifically to worshipping false idols.

Love and Reiki Hugs

RE: Worshipping false idols

ORIGINAL: sunanda

My point would be to ask why we are discussing this? Oblivion lord may well be scared of death or dying....other people are not. Sorry, but I wonder why it matters. We're all going to discover who's right and who's wrong at some future date. Meanwhile you might like to ponder a passage in the latest Conversations with God books (this one is called Home with God and talks a lot about what happens at death) where 'God' says - through Neale Donald Walsch - that whatever you believe death to be, that is what death will be for you. So as I have no fear, my death will be wonderful. But someone who fears descending into hellfire will indeed do so. Interesting theory eh?

Of course you say you have no fear of death and your death will be oh soo wonderfull which is the whole purpose for you believing in what you believe in compared to others. Going off of this, why wouldn't someone question the authenticity of someones idol or religion compared to theirs? I mean what proof do you actually have to say that there is infact an afterlife to guarantee you comfort when you die?

EDITED to add quote box and clarify that this post was in reply to sunanda and not as indicated by the auto 'reply to'.

RE: Worshipping false idols

Why talk about worshipping false idols eh?
Despite being repeatedly asked to (and very nicely too) when we can continue to veer totally off thread and drone on about your Necrophobia… (Seems it’s a lonely place to be btw:eek:)
Then you can persue the forcefeeding of us with your nihilistic belief system until we too breakdown and admit that…
“yes… I am afraid, very afraid of death…🙁”

There, I’ve said it… ya happy now [&:]

ORIGINAL: oblivionlord
I mean what proof do you actually have to say that there is infact an afterlife to guarantee you comfort when you die?

Personally, I’d say “mind yer own”… but the real answer (as I’m sure you’ve guessed) is – "What proof do you have that there isn’t one OL?" -
… see. It’s a ‘cul-de-sac’… (Ooo! I made a funny!:D)

Seriously though, why don’t you start your own thread on it mate, and let the thread get back to it’s original ‘subject’ eh?
Or are we forever destined to fully explore & post mortem your own personal existential crisis mate? <yawn>

RE: Worshipping false idols

* With moderator's 'hat' on *

oblivionlord, there have been repeated requests to return to the topic of this forum, both officially by several moderators and by other members.

We must ask - again and finally- that you now adhere to these requests and please return to the topic, while feeling free to start a new thread on the subject of fear of death if you so wish.

Please would you also clearly indicate to WHOM you are addressing your replies, by typing in the name of the person if you do not wish to use quote boxes, as in my edit of your post # 68 above.

I have also sent you a PM.

Holistic
On behalf of the Moderating Team

RE: Worshipping false idols

ORIGINAL: seersha

Where is the peace and love and understanding that so many religions claim is their guiding tenent? Reading this thread on a site where I hoped there was a more enlightened attitude saddens me. Maybe the message for Amber isto find your own path, listen to your own heart. You don't need organised religion to become close to the Creator Spirit-just take a walk in Nature and there you may findthe answers you seek.

Well said seersha. 😀

RE: Worshipping false idols

Worshiping false idols

God is Love, the Alpha and Omega - formless infinite Love beyond measure or description

So to make anythingimportant other than Love is to worship a false idol - building your home on the sand.
Love as described by Jesus - unconditional - love thy enemies - higher vision - non judgemental - timber out of own eye to remove splinter from brothers etc etc

False Idolswould include anything in form including a belief in bodies and the associated death/fear idea - valley of the shadow of death - shadow isnt real !

How can God have created anything that dies - Are we so arrogantto believe we can kill God and as such why would we believe in death - we are told we will not see God with our eyes - doesnt that mean what our eyes show us isnt real - If God is everything and we dont see God through eyes - they must be lying to us right now ?

We are all One and there is Only Love/God

Religion has painted a picture of death and fear upon our thinking interpreting the Bible as literal - Worshiping the body of Jesus when he quite clearly gave his body up - He knew it wasnt required - He knew it was his spirit created by the Father that was everything. Jesus was Love - thats all he had and that all he has now - because it is everything!

God our Father wills us to return to him and we ALL will however long that may take
God is Love and he asks us to be gentle on ourselves as would any loving parent looking upon his child having a bad dream.

We are all the beautifull sons of God forever - all we need do is wake up through the Golden rule - to look upon all with Love - To see with a higher vision - through Gods eyes

If you truely want the truth, make room in your minds that your ideas may be wrong about everything - that you simply dont know and ask - and you will recieve

God is all knowing - not us !
Make room for his vision

God bless you all precious sons of God