Worshipping false idols

RE: Worshipping false idols

Hi Amber

Gosh, no judgement or condemnation, yours is a perfectly reasonable query and I think is open to personal interpretation. The 'thou shalt not worship false idols' is one of the Ten Commandments, isn't it? so therefore a basic tenet of both Christianity and Judaism.

Now, speaking personally, I am very taken by the Hindu religion which seems to answer my own need to display devotion to a formless God/Goddess. It's a widely held belief that Hinduism means worshipping a wide pantheon of gods, but actually Hindus also believe in 'One God' (the eternal Brahman, or Supreme Consciousness) and see no anomaly in worshipping aspects of that formlessness. Indeed, as puny humans, it's thought that it is easier for us to practise (as it were) worshipping a form rather than going straight to the formless, which is a kind of advanced element.

But your point was specifically Christian in nature as you mention the Virgin Mary and the Saints. Well, as far as I know, and I'm not an expert on christianity, Catholics hold that it's fine to worship the one God through the medium of the Saints and the Virgin, while Protestants, especially the stricter kind, will have nothing to do with intercessors of this nature. You pays your money....

Basically, my own take is that God (aka Supreme Being, Source, Universal Consciousness) is a pretty inclusive Being and doesn't mind one jot what or whom anyone worships as long as we remain in the realm of goodness and light. I feel that all this 'this is wrong/this is right' stuff has been invented by man, along with 'my religion is the only way' which ultimately leads to 'my God is better than your God'....

I don't know if this helps but I really think you shouldn't worry too much. God is everywhere and everything so if you were to worship the pavement outside your house (for example) you would still be worshipping God, IMHO. Worship is the key....

Love
Sunanda xxx

RE: Worshipping false idols

Hello Amber,

I entirely sympathise with your question! 🙂

The Church of Rome was born in the AD 300's when the Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and almost (but not quite) he ordered the whole Roman Empire to become Christian. Up to then, it was idol worship (or Caesar worship). The temples became churches, the priests switched, but kept much of their attire. Many of the rituals and traditions of the old Roman temples transferred to the Church.

My take on this is that some people find it hard to understand the infinite, the spiritual and need a human manifestation to pour their personal adoration on.

I remember visiting a Catholic church in Budapest once with a 'born-again' Christian and he shuddered when he saw a statue of the Virgin Mary. He said to me that it sickened him to see people worshipping Mary, but I had to say to him, that I felt deeply uncomfortable about other Christians (like him!) idolising Jesus because that was the last thing he wanted. Whenever people tried to worship him, he would gently try to turn their thought back to God.

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. (John 5)

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Matt 19)

The 1st Commandment is “Thou shalt have no other gods before me.”

Love and peace,

Judy

RE: Worshipping false idols

Hi Sunanda,
Thanks for the reply!

Re not worrying about it, it's not something that worries me, more something that confuses me - not only is it worshipping a false idol, but to me it's also a bit like only being able to get to God via [insert your favourite prophet's namehere] or via a priest/rabbi/other religious leader. Why not go direct? It niggles me because on one hand some people will lecture others on the 10 commandments, and on the other hand they'll go into church on a Sunday and pray to Mary and/or the saints, but refuse to see the anomoly in this. The same people will then tell others that if they don't go to church, if they don't take communion, etc., then they will not get into heaven no matter how much they've lived a good, loving life. It all seems like a big contradiction to me - but then so does so much of organised religion! [&:]

I think my take is similar to yours, rather than a beardy bloke who sits in judgement I think of the divine being as formless; as being everywhere and nowhere at the same time; as being a part of all of us (or us as a part of the divine); as beinginclusive; whosimply wants us to live in goodness and love and light. I have never felt the need to go to church to worship within the constraints ofa man-made religious structure as to me the whole world is God's church. For me prayer is often like conversation, me chatting to a friend about the good and not so good of my day, my life, what is going on in the world, etc.

Anyway, going slightly [sm=offtopic.gif]there!!

I guess it works for many, just as my way works for me.
Love,
Amber
xx

RE: Worshipping false idols

Hi Judy,
Thanks for the reply - I hadn't thought to link it to the Roman temples, but yes, it makes sense.

I am also uncomfortable with people worshipping Jesus - by all means recognise the value and goodness of Mary, Jesus, the various saints, but to me there is only one divine being and there is no need for a middle-man between us and God (although I have to admit I'm not entirely comfortable with the word God either, but that's simple down tomy aversion to organised religion and how they portray God!).

I guess I just don't understand the need for a human manifestation to worship, and if there is a need I don't understand why that manifestation can't be of God or a symbol to represent God rather than of people that are seen to represent God. And yes, I know before anyone points it out that the bible also says that we should not make any image of God, but how is that any different to worshipping a false idol?

It seems now that I've been brave enough to ask my original question, I'm getting brave enough to ask other questions! 😉
Love,
Amber

RE: Worshipping false idols

Hi Amber,

You must have posted your reply to Sunanda at exactly the same time as I posted mine!

I wrote in haste yesterday but just wanted to add that the belief that we cannot go direct to God, surely is some form of feeling unworthy? I think again, one can trace its roots back to the time when the Bible was only written in Latin, which meant that ordinary people couldn’t read it and the priests only gave the people the bits they thought they should have, verbally. Sometime soon, I will re-post my thread about the potted history of the Bible and you’ll see how many people actually lost their lives or were tortured, imprisoned or had to flee their countries just because they tried to make the Bible accessible to everyone. Why were those in power so afraid? Because understanding the spiritual meaning of the Bible gives one freedom!

I’m sorry you feel uncomfortable with the word God – it actually is the word for GOOD in more than 20 languages!
There are so many other names one can use – the Muslims have 99 names (but not Father or Mother). I think Love gives the clearest (and nearest!) idea of God.

In the book I study, which unlocks the healing power of the Bible, there is a definition of God I’m sure you’ll agree with:

Question.-- What is God?
Answer. -- God is incorporeal, divine, supreme, infinite Mind, Spirit, Soul, Principle, Life, Truth, Love.

Question.-- Are these terms synonymous?
Answer. -- They are. They refer to one absolute God. They are also intended to express the nature, essence, and wholeness of Deity. The attributes of God are justice, mercy, wisdom, goodness, and so on.
(Science and Health p 465 by Mary Baker Eddy)

She also wrote, on a more human note:

Do I believe in a personal God?
I believe in God as the Supreme Being. I know not what the person of omnipotence and omnipresence is, or what the infinite includes; therefore, I worship that of which I can conceive, first, as a loving Father and Mother; then, as thought ascends the scale of being to diviner consciousness, God becomes to me, as to the apostle who declared it, "God is Love,"--divine Principle,--which I worship; and "after the manner of my fathers, so worship I God." (Miscellaneous Writings p 96)

The belief of having to go through an intermediary – whether it’s a priest, a saint, Mary or Jesus, surely is a form of mediumship? We each of us have a direct connection to God – in fact we are one with God. Jesus said:

“I and my Father are one.” (John10:30)

He also said to Mary of Magdala:

“Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.” (John 20:17)

The early Christians were healers – there are many reports of healing being a normal and natural outcome of their practice of Christianity. However, as a result of a decision by certain bishops at the Council of Nicaea in AD325, most of the Christian church declared that Jesus was God. When Jesus was declared God, healing practically died out in the Church, (apart from a few individuals who walked in the light) because, as Jesus was God, how could mere men possibly be able to do the things he could?

My church is “designed to commemorate the word and works of our Master, which should reinstate primitive Christianity and its lost element of healing.” We see Jesus Christ as the coincidence between the human and the divine, but, how could the whole of infinite Spirit be contained within a human body? To me, it doesn’t make sense! A ray of sun is one with the sun, but is not the sun itself. If anyone reading this is interested, this is part of a platform of metaphysics in Science and Health which is the first page of three about Jesus and the Christ. (read pages 332-334)

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RE: Worshipping false idols

ORIGINAL: Amber Lady

And so my question: If we accept the above, how can so many people worship at, and pray to, the various statues of saints and the Madonna? They are not gods, they do not come before the one god, so why isn't this seen as worshipping false idols?

Amber

Hi Amber Lady,

I know your question is not pointed to any particular religion or persons, but I shall answer you as a Catholic since we seem to have more statues in our churches than other Christian churches:D.

We do not worship statues or pray to Saints, we only pray to God, we can however ask Mary and the Saints to pray for us such as in the prayer the litany of the saints:

We have a special devotion to Mary because she was chosen to be the Mother of Jesus, but we do not worship her as in we do God (to point out that the word worship has changed dramatically and was refered to mean holding someone worthy of beingin in honour or respect of someone, so in that sence we do honour Mary).

We may pray in front of statues of the saints but we do not pray to them.

Do you not have a picture of those dear to you around your home? so it is with Catholic Church, all the statues of Christ, Mary and the Saints are there because they are dear to us; they do not replace but remind us of them as do your pictures of your loved ones;)

RE: Worshipping false idols

Well the way i would look at it is that yes it would seemingly be the worship of false idols but it is not actually the statue or whatever that you are worshipping and believing has power, it what it represents! Thus the energy of whaterever god is chanelled through it. I suppose it may be easier to go direct to the god but directing at a statue or whatever may be more effective as u then have something tangible to focus your energy on. Does this make sense??

RE: Worshipping false idols

Hello Amber,

I liked reading peoples' answers, but I think that the crux of the question is 'why do people worship representations of God' rather than 'false idols.' There is a difference. One can call anything a 'false idol' - even the statues of Jesus in churches is idolatory.

A bit of history to add to that which has been written - this idea of 'idol worship' stems back to Judaism, before Christianity put in an appearance. In those times, the Jews frowned upon anyone who made representations of God e.g. the Egyptians, and they (the Jews) would never even mention the God by name, let alone make a statue of it. This thought found its way into the Old Testament, and if we remember that Jesus himself was a Jew who worshipped in the synagogue, he would have been familiar with all this thinking. This has transmuted itself to us in the present day so although we fashion statues of the Virgin Mary and St Michael for example, no statue exists that represents the deity.

Representations of the saints is purely based on paganism, of which Catholicism usurped much. Today, representations of the saints in statues and relics form part of Catholic worship, but they are not 'false idols'. The 'false idols' idea came from peoples who lived in lands where statues of gods were worshipped e.g. Osiris, and who would never have worshipped Osiris themselves. Anything foreign was 'false.' Nowadays, statues are a focus for prayer, but they are not prayed to, as Magno says. It is the deity that is worshipped, not the statue.

Love,
Patsy.
xxxxxx

RE: Worshipping false idols

Hi again Amber

Patsy's post above makes a lot of sense. And when you say

I guess I just don't understand the need for a human manifestation to worship,

the only thing I can say is that everyone is different. This is what makes the world go round, IMO. So what's right for me by no means has to be right for you or for anyone else. This is in fact the issue I have with organised religion: the regimentation of everyone and the demand for conformity. I believe we should all be free to worship as we see fit, as long as it harms no one.

Much love
Sunanda xxx

RE: Worshipping false idols

Hi sunanda,

Exactly. It was the original misinterpretation of other peoples' religious practices, from which this idea of 'false idols' came. These ancient people travelled much, either from choice e.g. as traders or by necessity e.g. slavery. Tales of the mystic East abounded, and so did hyped-up stories of 'idol worshipping heathens' in these lands.

I know from my Hindu friends that although represenations of their particular deity (in my friends cases, Ganesh) are esconced in their home, these statues and pictures are merely foci for worship of the deity, and that is also true in Roman Catholicism. It helps those who are worshipping to have a picture of the god/saint in his/her mind because it helps the prayers to speed to the god/goddess.

Love,
Patsy.
xxxxxx

RE: Worshipping false idols

Wow! I haven't checked in for a while and now there are so many replies! I'm at work at the moment so won't be able to really digest them and reflect until later, but one thing that has been said by a few people is that these statues are a focus for prayer but that the prayer is to the deity and not the statue or the person that it represents. What is a deity - is the deity the God of that religion, or are Mary and Jesus (and the various others) considered deities?

I can see that statues as a focus for prayer may be the case for many, but I know several people who say
"I pray to Mother Mary and Mother Mary will answer my prayer" or
"I pray to Jesus and Jesus will answer my prayer"
and when I ask why they don't pray direct to God the answer is often "Oh no, I couldn't do that, Mother Mary/Jesus will do for me thank you".

Hence my question of why people felt it OK to pray to statues and the person that they represent. But of course this gives rise to another question in my curious mind (and sorry if this has already been answered, as I say I haven't fully digested the replies yet!) - do some people pray to statues and other religious figures because they don't feel able to/worthy of going direct to God?

It may seem that I'm focussing on Catholics here, but that's just because I'm referring to the saints etc., there are various statues in other religions too so please don't think I'm picking on one religion.
Yours, struggling to understand,
Amber

RE: Worshipping false idols

Hi Amber

is the deity the God of that religion

My answer to this has to be another question: how can there be a different God for each religion? God is God is God is God, no matter what name, image, sex, attributes you give Him/Her/It. It's precisely this divisive thinking which causes such bloodshed through the world forever and ever amen. 'My God is better than your God.' It's not possible. God is God. And it shouldn't, and to me, doesn't matter whether you believe that Jesus is God made flesh and Mary is the Mother of God. It's all a mystery anyway. Follow your heart. You will never get a definitive answer to your questions because everyone has their own beliefs. If you don't feel comfortable with the idea that Jesus is divine, then that's cool. I appreciate that you are curious , which is great, but in the final analysis, you will believe what you want to believe. And so will I. And Judy. and Patsy and all of us.
And thank God for that!:D

Much love
Sunanda xxx

RE: Worshipping false idols

Hi Amber,

Latin 'deus' = 'god.' 'Deity' is from the Latin and it means 'supreme being/god.'

Love,
Patsys.
xxxxxx

RE: Worshipping false idols

ORIGINAL: Amber Lady

I can see that statues as a focus for prayer may be the case for many, but I know several people who say
"I pray to Mother Mary and Mother Mary will answer my prayer" or
"I pray to Jesus and Jesus will answer my prayer"
and when I ask why they don't pray direct to God the answer is often "Oh no, I couldn't do that, Mother Mary/Jesus will do for me thank you".

Hence my question of why people felt it OK to pray to statues and the person that they represent. But of course this gives rise to another question in my curious mind (and sorry if this has already been answered, as I say I haven't fully digested the replies yet!) - do some people pray to statues and other religious figures because they don't feel able to/worthy of going direct to God?

It may seem that I'm focussing on Catholics here, but that's just because I'm referring to the saints etc., there are various statues in other religions too so please don't think I'm picking on one religion.
Yours, struggling to understand,
Amber

Hi Amber,

When we pray we are speaking to whom ever we are praying to, we can ask Mary the Mother of God to pray for us or people could say they are praying to her, but only God grants our prayers.

In the Catholic and Orthodox religions Jesus is considered the second person of the Trinity : The Son and so therefore He is considered to be God; Jesus is the Word (God) made flesh.*

In the beginning was the Word:
and the Word was with God
and the Word was God.
He was with God in the beginning.
Through him all things came into being,
not one thing came into being except through him. (John1:1-3)

RE: Worshipping false idols

amber, the people who are warshipping false gods and idols are people who are not saved! they dont believe in GOD cause if they did the would do as GOD wanted. most people will only believe in something that they can touch, feel, or see!

RE: Worshipping false idols

ORIGINAL: sunanda

Hi Amber

is the deity the God of that religion

My answer to this has to be another question: how can there be a different God for each religion? God is God is God is God, no matter what name, image, sex, attributes you give Him/Her/It. It's precisely this divisive thinking which causes such bloodshed through the world forever and ever amen. 'My God is better than your God.' It's not possible. God is God. And it shouldn't, and to me, doesn't matter whether you believe that Jesus is God made flesh and Mary is the Mother of God. It's all a mystery anyway. Follow your heart. You will never get a definitive answer to your questions because everyone has their own beliefs. If you don't feel comfortable with the idea that Jesus is divine, then that's cool. I appreciate that you are curious , which is great, but in the final analysis, you will believe what you want to believe. And so will I. And Judy. and Patsy and all of us.
And thank God for that!

Much love
Sunanda xxx

I would have to dissagree on this just for the reasoning that not any 1 religion can claim that their God accounts for all the other "Gods" of the opposing religions. The God you believe in which you so happen to think IS the God that everyone else believes in but, just a diffrent name, form, body, etc etc etc is not the same God. This article will show diffrences between Hinduism and Christianity.

[link= http://biblia.com/theology/hindu-christ.htm ]http://biblia.com/theology/hindu-christ.htm[/link]

You can't exactly call yourself a Christian if you don't believe that Jesus did infact die for our sins and that he IS the 1 and only true Lord and savior whos of the Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) that you WILL goto Hell if you do not believe in him and only him and NO prophet other than him.

Not exactly the way of a Hindu I take it

Aslo is not the way of a Muslim since they only believe in a single God. Their God condemns those (Kafir) who don't read the Qur'an and worship Allah 5 times a day and attend mecca once a year etc etc etc.

You can try to rationalize your beliefs anyway you please but, it's only going to be you who believes that you will find a place in whatever "good" area the afterlife brings. You just will not be accepted by the God or Gods according to others that strongly believe in their faith. It's the main reason why there are more Holy wars than any other types of wars in history. How the idea, the belief in a Supreme intelligence with Omnipotent power is the best way to control the masses using fear as their all powerfull driving motivator such as any King would do to his people. King Henry, Ceaser, Hitler, Stalin, Napoleon, Kangus Kong, etc etc etc

The #1 fear of all Humans = Death

Is it any wonder why an Athiest wouldn't all the sudden convert to some belief in God/Gods during a time of near death? Im sure not all Athiests do but, that alot may convert to some belief other than not believing at that critical stage.

RE: Worshipping false idols

ORIGINAL: godschild0690
amber, the people who are warshipping false gods and idols are people who are not saved! they dont believe in GOD cause if they did the would do as GOD wanted.

Many of those that I suspect you are talking about do believe in God, and faithfully do as God wants (according to them...) What is it exactly thatproves they are wrong and you are right?

ORIGINAL: oblivionlord
The #1 fear of all Humans = Death

Wrong!...:eek:

(In the unforgettable Northern Irish tones of "Catchphrase" Roy Walker)... "It's Goood... But it's not right!"...🙂
I'm sure I'm not the only person on Earth who hasno fear of death whatsoever, my number one fear is spending the last 10 to 20 years of my life without control of my bowels with my middle-aged children having to clean up after me, my number 2 fear is what I am capable of - if I really 'lost it' [:o]
In fact my wife's 'Number One' fear is err... spiders :)(she certainly doesn't fear death in the least!)

RE: Worshipping false idols

the bible says it, and proves it! And you dont think your afraid of dying, but you havent been faced with it yet! And are you saying that i'm a conspiritualist?

RE: Worshipping false idols

ORIGINAL: Godschild0690
the bible says it, and proves it!

Forgive me for doubting your word, but please can you show me where it “proves it”… over and above any other faith that claims the same thing?[sm=scratchchin.gif]

ORIGINAL: Godschild0690
And you dont think your afraid of dying, but you havent been faced with it yet!

Nope, I don’t just think it… I’ve never been afraid of dying, I’ve been afraid of being paralysed, suffering brain damage, spending my life on a machine, leaving my children before they could fend for themselves etc… etc; but NO, I’ve never been afraid of dying… and I’m sorry to tell you that the second part of your sentence is also just another incorrect assumption on your part.🙁

ORIGINAL: Godschild0690
And are you saying that i'm a conspiritualist?

Why? Do you know what one is (as I just made the word up – and it’s meaning)?
But no… I’m saying I am… err, that’s why I call myself ‘conspiritualist’ see?;)

RE: Worshipping false idols

Well yo dont have to be a smart ass about it! I was just asking!!!!

RE: Worshipping false idols

ORIGINAL: godschild0690

Well yo dont have to be a smart ass about it! I was just asking!!!!

[sm=rollaugh.gif]OK, please accept my apologies Calissa!
But, are gonna try and answer my question?

RE: Worshipping false idols

And you dont think your afraid of dying, but you havent been faced with it yet!

Hi calissa, long time no see;)

This seems to be going 'off topic' but I wonder if 'fear of death' is more likely for those amonst us who beleive in tales of hell & eternal punishment and scary beasts. As far as I'm aware, most people who are (erm) 'spiritually aware' have no fear of death, I too am more scared of spiders[sm=speechless-smiley-040.gif]

Love
Amy
xx

RE: Worshipping false idols

GOD just says that we are not to worship false gods and idols. we are to worship HIM! But your right, I cant prove it in a way that everyone would take it as fact, I just believe the bible,and alot of people dont. To Amelia... if you dont believe in a hell or eternal punishment then what do you believe happens when you die?

RE: Worshipping false idols

OK, but you said this quite matter-of-factly

ORIGINAL: godschild0690
the people who are warshipping false gods and idols are people who are not saved! they dont believe in GOD cause if they did the would do as GOD wanted

And this: -

ORIGINAL: godschild0690
the bible says it, and proves it!

And then despite admitting that you are unable to back up your sweeping statements of fact (which is as anyone would suspect) you preface it with words that effectively say “God told us to worship only him, and him alone”…

ORIGINAL: godschild0690
GOD just says that we are not to worship false gods and idols. we are to worship HIM! But your right, I cant prove it in a way that everyone would take it as fact, I just believe the bible,and alot of people dont.

So can I ask, which of the Gods mentioned in the Bible (as I assume that’s what you’re talking about) do you prescribe we should worship in order to ensure that we are (as you put it) “saved”?
[sm=scratchchin.gif]Coz I can count at least TWO distinct versions of God (both in description and name) in that book, and am keen to know which one you picked!

RE: Worshipping false idols

if you dont believe in a hell or eternal punishment then what do you believe happens when you die?

I had all this "hell and damnation" stuff shoved down my throatat school (I went to a Convent) and it scared the living daylights out of me! Until, I discovered a more sympathetic philosopher in the shape of Lord Buddha who said - basically - if you lead a good life you will come back to a better onethe next time round.

Anddon't tell me, Calissa, that I am damned to hell for believing in the words of this man![:-] As I mentioned in a thread a while back called Jesus and Buddhism, I believe that Jesus's original teachings were based on the tenet of buddhism (probablyunder another name at the time) as there is a school of thought that believed Jesus travelled to Kashmir in the missing 18 years and probably learnt the buddhist philosophy. Jesus never said "go to hell".

Love

RE: Worshipping false idols

ORIGINAL: Conspiritualist

ORIGINAL: oblivionlord
The #1 fear of all Humans = Death

[color="#0000cc"]Wrong!...

[color="#0000cc"](In the unforgettable Northern Irish tones of "Catchphrase" Roy Walker)... [color="#330000"]"It's Goood... But it's not right!"...
[color="#0000cc"]I'm sure I'm not the only person on Earth who hasno fear of death whatsoever, my number one fear is spending the last 10 to 20 years of my life without control of my bowels with my middle-aged children having to clean up after me, my number 2 fear is what I am capable of - if I really 'lost it'
[color="#0000cc"]In fact my wife's 'Number One' fear is err... spiders (she certainly doesn't fear death in the least!)

Id like to see you say this when you are about to take in your last breath while being held up by a knife or gun knowing that you will die. How about when you've been injected with a poison that causes you immence pain to eventually die wishing someone will just end your life. How about someone drugging you making you immobile yet knowing your own judgement but, at the same time cutting you up limb from limb. How about someone capturing you as a hostage and killing you while being blind folded as a statement to other countries to pull out of the "holy land".

If not the death of yourself then how about a loved one such as your children? I can think of many sadistic ways to torture a small child in front of the parents face making them submit to my needs. It is said that a mother is considered the true God of a child. You may not fear death for yourself but, I'm sure as a father you would get extreamly angry or sad if you saw this happen in front of your eyes with absolutly no way to stop it.

It's always the words of a fearless one who would say such things but, was never really put on the spot. Have you ever been in any of these situations? I know people who have. The truth of a man really reveals himself at that point. I'm possitive alot of you would act diffrently when the time comes.

RE: Worshipping false idols

ORIGINAL: oblivionlord

ORIGINAL: Conspiritualist

ORIGINAL: oblivionlord
The #1 fear of all Humans = Death

Wrong!...

(In the unforgettable Northern Irish tones of "Catchphrase" Roy Walker)... "It's Goood... But it's not right!"...
I'm sure I'm not the only person on Earth who hasno fear of death whatsoever, my number one fear is spending the last 10 to 20 years of my life without control of my bowels with my middle-aged children having to clean up after me, my number 2 fear is what I am capable of - if I really 'lost it'
In fact my wife's 'Number One' fear is err... spiders (she certainly doesn't fear death in the least!)

Id like to see you say this when you are about to take in your last breath while being held up by a knife or gun knowing that you will die. How about when you've been injected with a poison that causes you immence pain to eventually die wishing someone will just end your life. How about someone drugging you making you immobile yet knowing your own judgement but, at the same time cutting you up limb from limb. How about someone capturing you as a hostage and killing you while being blind folded as a statement to other countries to pull out of the "holy land".

Have you ever been tortured? I'm talking actual torture that will kill you unless stopped. The truth of a man really reveals himself at that point.

< Message edited by oblivionlord -- 26 October 2006, 5:08:28 PM >

Hahaha, you crack me up ‘guvnorofnowt’… wassamatter? Find out your assumptions are flawed?
I’m not here to have a d*ck waving contest with you about who’s faced the worst scenarios…Mate, you know sod all about me, or things that have happened to me in my life, so save yer stupid childish rant and deal with point in question…
Your statement about “The #1 fear of all Humans = Death” is rubbish, and you know it… LOL, you even state it yourself in your reply to me when you’re trying to argue the opposite …. “How about when you've been injected with a poison that causes you immence pain to eventually die wishing someone will just end your life" [sm=rollaugh.gif][sm=rollaugh.gif]

RE: Worshipping false idols

As if you would willingly admit anything here.

How about you save me my time of reading your responces

RE: Worshipping false idols

ORIGINAL: oblivionlord

As if you would willingly admit anything here.

How about you save me my time of reading your responces

How 'bout you read your own "responces" to make sure you don't contradict yourself... fool! 😀