Hello to the HP font of knowledge,
Can any one give me any information about the "Plymouth Brethren" in this country. I treat a number of patients who are from this religion and I believe that they have very strict "no-go" areas - such as they don't use computers, have TVs etc. I'd hate to cause upset through my ignorance if I said or implied the wrong thing during consultations. I've looked it up on the web but wonder if any of you have first hand knowledge you wouldn't mind sharing.
Thanks in anticipation.
RE: Plymouth Brethren
Dear Bellis
Sorry never heard of them but I agree with them about TV's, internet well the divine love creating synchronciity through this medium. Big smiles!
Try replacing the word ignorance with innocence it is so empowering.
What about showing your interest in them and their beliefs and ask your clients for some information. They will feel truly honored that you are paying homage to their sacred divinity I AM sure.
Blessings in Abundance
kim xx
RE: Plymouth Brethren
Dear Bellis,
I'm sure a net search would help? Otherwise I can't much. Only this:
Years ago I had the most amazing coincidence. I was on a train in India, and was reading Aleister Crowley's "Autohagiography". An Indian guy opposite tried to strike up a conversation and told me he was a member of the Plymouth Brethren, which I'd never heard of. I was more interested in my book, and turning back to it within minutes read that Crowley was raised in a family of Plymouth Brethren. I got the impression - yes - just think "Amish" and maybe halve it for the extent they go?
["Autohagiography": Crowley's own term for the book: autobiography of a saint. He did have humour. 😉 ]
Love, Light, and Life,
Venetian
RE: Plymouth Brethren
Hi Bellis
I know a little about the plymouth Bretherin, but not alot. The reason they don't have TV's, radios, mobile phones etc is because in one of the letters of John, it describes the devil as the 'prince of the air' being as these devices use airwaves, they are considered a taboo area.
Plymouth Bretherin will also not normally have fellowship or eat and drink with someone outside their denomination. Again, in John, it calls for Christians to be 'set apart - holy people' and the Bretherin have taken this to its most extream meaning.
Brethering women will not have their hair cut - it is their 'crowning glory' they will also always wear something on their head. Women are also always chaparoned if they are in public.
Bretherin do not celebrate easter, birthdays of christmas, as ther is no instruction in the Bible to do so - however, they do celebrate Good Friday, as it was an instruction from Jesus to remember is crucifiction.
This is about all I know - hope it is helpful
Waywood
RE: Plymouth Brethren
Dear Bellis,
Again, I can't help either, except that a lady at church came from a PB family and I spoke to her about it on Sunday. Her grandmother was one and she said that she remembers not being allowed to play games on Sundays, only allowed to read the Bible. No going to the cinema (there wasn't telly in those days). Wear modest clothing. It was very much living by the 10 Commandments - keeping the Sabbath holy, honouring your Father and Mother. Very simple, non-materialistic life. I have a feeling Venetian is spot on when he says Amish - have you seen the film Witness?
I'm sure Kim's idea is the best - just ask your client - show an interest and she will appreciate your respect for her beliefs.
Love,
Judy
RE: Plymouth Brethren
Hallo Bellis,
In trying to answer your question, it bought forth quite a lot of old info from my family. Very interesting, thank you for asking.
Puritanical sect founded in Plymouth, Devon in 1830, believeing the bible to be the sole source of truth
[DLMURL] http://withchrist.org/MJS/pbs.htm [/DLMURL]
Plymouth Brethren
Fundamentalist Christian Protestant sect characterized by extreme simplicity of belief, founded in Dublin in about 1827 by the Reverend John Nelson Darby (1800–1882). The Plymouth Brethren have no ordained priesthood, affirming the ministry of all believers, and maintain no church buildings. They hold prayer meetings and Bible study in members’ houses
I asked my great Aunt Poppy about this as she is a Quaker, and she told me they are actually an EXTREME form of the Quaker movement, and have no longer anything significant in common. Her words not mine;)
Quakers (a favourite of mine) do allow free will, and ask you to think for yourself, although to me, personally, they are still influenced too heavily influenced by the Bible which is , to me on a personal level, an historical document, and not to be taken as anything other than that, or moral concepts of life. Too heavily weighted against women too, if you read the OT, very constricting and overpowering of all female kind.
Love Gillyxxxxx
RE: Plymouth Brethren
Thanks Everyone for your responses.
I did think of Witness (Harrison Ford fan here!) when I first met the first patient who came to me from the Plymouth Brethren. It was fascinating to hear of the biblical references and you're so right Sacredstar - I have asked them about their beliefs & have met a mixture of willingness to share to almost hostile secrecy!
I have been involved with the treatment of quite a number of Plymouth Brethren families over the past 4 years or so (word went around their congregation!) and I do believe I am quite honoured to be involved in their healthcare - I know that if they had a homoeopath amongst themselves, I wouldn't be consulted at all. I thought I'd share my observations with you as you might meet them yourselves.
As mentioned, all the women have the most amazingly long hair and they all (even the little girls) wear headscarves when out in public. The men all have short back & sides haircuts. I haven't met a blond adult(!). On the telephone, the women are indistinguishable from each other - they all talk in exactly the same way - very hesitant - only speaking a few words before saying "erm" and their intonation, accent and use of language are identical. I have always found them profoundly respectful & polite and as I say, only met some guardedness when I asked about their religion (perhaps it was the way I asked?). They don't listen to radio, TV or have mobile phones although they do use telephones. In their businesses, they don't use computers at all (or have anything to do with them infact) and all their business paperwork is done by hand or typewriter. They seem to own their own family businesses and live in detached houses (don't want to share a party wall with non-Brethren). Marriages are small affairs carried out without pomp & circumstance. They meet in windowless halls (the local one is huge) on a daily basis and Sunday begins at 5am when they have some special breakfast I believe. Sundays are also days that they entertain other Brethren families. Unlike Witness - they do drive cars (all seem to have quite new models) - no horses seen! The younger children attend state schools but not pre-schools or nurseries and the older children are educated at home. They have a special fund that pays for this and they raise money through sales of their home made goods. I have been priveledged to go to one home which was very spartan but had rows & rows of little books which contain messages from their prophets I think.
That's all I can remember at the moment & hope I've not rattled on too long but thanks again for the information.
Kind regards x
RE: Plymouth Brethren
Dear Bellis
Thank you for sharing yes I get that picture of Harrison Ford as well!
Amazing that groups like this still exist today I wonder how they can justify car but not the computer hmm......very interesting......
You probably sounded too interested big smiles! Which took some into defensive maybe.....e.g suspicious of why you should wish to know. Even so you managed to find out a lot.
Just continue to give it the love that you are and I'm sure they will melt.
being love
kim xx
RE: Plymouth Brethren
Fascinating Bellis,
Thanks for sharing that with us! Fascinating. I'm sure that you really are honoured to have your services accepted like this. Does this mean that they prefer homeopathy to medicine?
I go to an ecumenical group of universty professors (I always feel very intimidated, but as I'm the only woman, they make quite a fuss of me.) One of the professors specialises in studying the ways groups of people speak - their jargon, the words they use, their intonaton etc (forgotten what it's called) - he'd be interested in what you've said about how they all sound the same.
Love and peace,
Judy
RE: Plymouth Brethren
Hi Gilly,
I haven't had anything to do with the Plymouth Brethren before, but it does sound as if they follow an extreme form of Quakerism. I 'tinkered' with the Quaker thought at one time and I found all Quakers to be welcoming, accommodating and very hearty people. I would go so far as to say that they were among the most tolerant of folks, too. They have a love of God, and see God in all things.
There is a sect of Plymouth Brethren not far from where I live. I hardly ever see them though, which is a shame.
Love,
Patsy.
xxxxxx
RE: Plymouth Brethren
Hi Patsy,
Me too, I love the Quakers! I have two very special Quaker friends and have been to Meetings, which I found very serene. I agree they see God in all things, but tend to keep away from preaching at other people, which is apt to happen with the stricter sects aka Plymouth Bretheren and JW's for two examples of many.
Love Gillyxxxxx
RE: Plymouth Brethren
I read with fasdination all the posts on Plymouth Brethren. Unfortunately the information supplied by you all so far is only remotely connected to the PB. I am a Plymouth Brethren writer and historian [, and let me add few comments here.
PB is a movement among Christians that started in Plymouth, England, in 1850s, and thus this name.
Eventually there were similar movements in many places worldwide, and today they all idenfity themslelves as PB, though they do not have their origin in Plymouth.
PB are not the narrow-minded sectarians that many of you feel they are. There is much more to them, and I will mention them in my posts.
Johnson C. Philip
It originated from Plymouth, not that there are any Brethren societies left in Plymouth (or none I know of). Apparently, the children were influenced by their primary schools, which is why the ratio of adults to children is well out of balance. They leave the faith when they come of age, so I would take care around children when the parents are around, as not to "upset" or "influence" the children, or parents.
Bellis, from the description you give it seems clear the people you were in contact with were Hales-Taylor Exclusive Brethren.
Exclusive Brethren are indeed an offshoot of Plymouth Brethren, and the Hales-Taylor or 'Taylorite' Brethren are a further ('closed') offshoot of the Exclusives. See
They are easily recognisable from your description; I know them well as I was raised within the group. In the mid-1980s aged 20 I voiced my disagreement with their practices and was disfellowshipped, losing my friends, family and my birth-culture.
There are around 15,000 Hales-Taylor EB in the UK (>40,000 worldwide: main proliferations NZ, Aus, Canada, US). During the mid-1980s when I was still a member, interest in homeopathy became quite rampant... and as they're such a closed group, news travels fast! So a sympathetic, not-too-nosey, decent-to-EB-eyes homeopath (or any person running a nonEB-type business, really!) soon becomes "today's news" amongst the flock, and mass Brethren migration to that business will often result, as you discovered!
IMO they are a cult, but even cult members recognise they sometimes need outside help (to the point, even, of friendship on odd occasions). So I'm glad to hear you were able to gain their confidence enough to get a few answers to your questions. I think you probably became aware that life 'inside' the EB is quite different in many ways, to life for nonEB people? E.g. women are to be 'subject' to men; real-life decision-making is heavily restricted in things such as employment, where to live, when/whom to marry, where to educate children.
Since your posts in 2004, there are a few changes within the Hales-Taylor EB to point out. Most notable is the removal of virtually all of their children from state schooling systems worldwide. Within the UK, Focus Learning Trust is the Hales-Taylor umbrella educational charity for the approx 60 schools the Brethren operate. They do now accept computers for business and educational purposes, although these 'WordEx' machines are provided by the EB leadership and are heavily monitored almost to the point of disablement I gather. Hales-Taylor Brethren are also allowed to use a limited in-house version of mobile phones.
Re Kyle's comment that "the ratio of children to adults is well out of balance"... Within the Hales-Taylor Brethren, there are certainly large numbers of children and this is because large families are encouraged and the group's leaders forbid contraception. Within other EB groups however, I understand the demographic is quite different... to the point of near-collapse in numbers. There is of course a concern that in-breeding is - or may shortly become - a problem within the closed Hales-Taylor group. Just one of many problems, from my perspective of now being "on the outside looking in" to where my family and loved ones languish within the cult. Just my thoughts.
Check out the offshoot of the "Exclusive Brethren"). It's really informative and accurate. The reason I know about all this is because I am in fellowship in an "open Brethren" assembly. (on a side note, we call our places of worship "assemblies" rather than "churches" because many of us believe that the "church" as the New Testament describes it is made up of all true believers in Christ from all denominations, and not just the people who worship in the same building as we do...so hence using "assembly" or "chapel" or "Gospel hall" instead).
The Wiki page explains it a lot better than I could, but the "open Brethren" and even normal "exclusive Brethren" (not all "exclusive Brethren" are like that one particular sect) are a lot different in their beliefs and practices than the "Taylorite" Brethren that dawnz describes above.
I know this thread is like 5 years old, but if you're still reading it, I am also convinced and in agreement with dawnz that the "Brethren" that are described in the original post are from this Taylorite offshoot, to which I would also consider a cult from everything that I've read about them. I've never encountered anyone who is part of that sect, so I don't know anything firsthand.
But I know that the "open Brethren" is a lot different from all that, and even a lot of the "exclusive" brethren (they call themselves exclusive because they only allow attendees of their assembly to break bread with them). We're more like mainline evangelical Christians than anything...we're definitely in no way "closed" to the rest of society or to other Christians and we don't shun modern technology like TV or internet (though most of us do believe it is wise to use discernment as to what we choose to watch/look at on the TV/internet). We dress modern just like most other people (though most of us choose to dress modestly; I love denim skirts but others never wear skirts and such), and I don't think I know anyone at my assembly who has insanely long hair (I personally have hair about 3-4 inches past my shoulder and trim it regularly).
At my assembly we allow any person who professes to have a personal saving faith Jesus Christ to break bread (partake in communion) with us. That person usually will either bring a letter from their elders if they come from a different assembly (who can attest that that person is indeed a born again Christian), or if they are from a different denomination they'll share their testimony with an elder before the start of the service and he'll permit that person to partake.
But theologically we're really not that different from other mainline denominations such as Baptists, and in fact a lot of the other denominations borrow things from the Brethren movement, such as expository preaching. There are just a few things that are different, such as the fact that no assembly has a head pastor (the reason being is because the Greek in the New Testament is always plural when it's talking about the leadership in the first century gatherings) and usually there are no salaried staff (there are exceptions...see the wiki link). Also, most if not all women elect to cover their heads during worship in obedience to 1 Corinthians 11. I do by my own choosing :). We don't take up offerings during the regular service because we don't want any non-believers visiting to feel like they're obligated to give or that they can earn salvation through giving. That's why the offering is usually done during the breaking of bread where only believers who understand the Biblical principles of giving are present.
Other than those minor differences, if you were to go into an "open Brethren" assembly (and you wouldn't necessarily know it cause we don't call ourselves "Brethren"...we simply call ourselves "Christian") you'd probably feel like you were in any other Bible-believing evangelical church.
I personally love fellowshipping with the "open Brethren" along with all my other brothers and sisters in Christ who worship in other denominations. We're a LOT different than the "exclusive" sect that dawnz described and had the misfortune of being brought up in :(. If someone leaves, no one shuns them or cuts them off or anything cultic like that.
So basically...long story short...not all people affiliated with the "Plymouth Brethren" are the same :), and the vast majority of "Brethren" are just like anyone from any other evangelical denomination.
Bellis, from the description you give it seems clear the people you were in contact with were Hales-Taylor Exclusive Brethren.
Exclusive Brethren are indeed an offshoot of Plymouth Brethren, and the Hales-Taylor or 'Taylorite' Brethren are a further ('closed') offshoot of the Exclusives. See
Hi
You can read a lot of the more "modern" information regarding the [url]Plymouth Brethren Christian Church[/url], their faith, their takes on technology, the Business people within their community, their families and beliefs here at this page
The Plymouth Brethren are largely involved in the community too and run the [url]Rapid Relief Team[/url] which is a non profit organisation made up of Plymouth Brethren Christian Church members who are at the ready to help at times of community disasters such as bushfires, accidents, flood and disasters.