Thomas Aquinas wrote and preached mankind had turned against God and was therefore 'fallen'. TA also told us this only affected man IN PART.
In his view the WILL was fallen or corrupted but the intellect was not affected and in this manner people could rely on their own human wisdom. I interpret this as people are therefore free to mix the teachings of the Bible with the teachings of non Christian philosophers.
Does anyone have any more views on this?
Love Gxxx
RE: Is mankind fallen or corrupted?
Hi Gilly,
Corrupted from whose point of view? The human perspective or that of unconditional Love?
NLI
RE: Is mankind fallen or corrupted?
Hi Nancy;)
From the human perspective IMO. I do not credit Spirit/God/unconditional Lovewith such irrationality.
I suppose I put the question here as I was in the middle of research - the kind of psychologial effects that one person's thoughts can have on another, depending on the energies of that person and the amount of power other people either perceive he/she has, or power which they themselves bestow on that person.
An individual such as TA has stood the test of time, insomuch as his thoughts are still with us and widely read within certain circles. In fact, my research tells me he was a mysoginist of the worse kind - so flawed yes, but powerful nonetheless. His writing shows much depth and understanding of human nature, as did Christ.
He was fundementally incorrect to think that anyone was corrupted, IMO, but, we see this chain of thought coming down through the ages to where we are now, through various religions.
I think the wisest part of his pronouncement was that our God given intellectis not affected by any 'corruption' and we are therefore free to disseminate and choose where we will.
Love
Gillyxxx
RE: Is mankind fallen or corrupted?
I think, and this is Nancy speaking, that the will has always been weak in humans, but it is because we teach ourselves to doubt our abilities, our purity, and our instincts.
We learn, from the very beginning, by hearing the word, “No!” Everything is fine until we do something wrong, then come face to face with negation and punishment. We are taught humility, often false, until we begin to internalize our worthlessness. We are told to live for others; that we are only here to do service. We learn in religious training that we are sinners or that karma will determine what happens to us. The celebration of self is not only frowned upon, it is outright maligned.
But think about what that does for religion. It creates a need in us to depend upon the intervention of holy people (whoever they might be). We buy the favor of the church and therefore of the creator. If I believe that I am able to think and act on my own, I have no need for organized religion and no need to worship another.
To be true to the self does not mean to negate the value of others. In fact, the more we can believe in the value of the self the more we respect every other person and their right to self-determination.
That includes not only the will but also the intellect. Rampant will (ego) is evidence of doubt. Rampant intellect is free-thinking.
RE: Is mankind fallen or corrupted?
Nancy, thank you for your thoughtful reply.
I can clearly see the truth behind your words, and haveonly to add that this'mindset' throughthe ages, which covers us allare purelythe religious/social/natural laws which protect mankind from each other (sad isn't it, that we need protection from each other, as yet)[:-]
They are in place because the majority of humanity has not evolved to a point where they can think and act freely without causing harm to others. There is a need for restraint, socially and within the individual himself. And these religious Laws give that very thing, PROTECTION, mainly because they scare you whilst you are very young, into believing in hell and damnation of some kind[&:] But they protect you from hurting another and by being hurt by another, or, are supposed to!
And adding to the above, good Lord Save Us, if you allowed FREE THOUGHT to WOMEN[sm=speechless-smiley-008.gif]over the last 6000 odd years - as we all know othey should be kept in the stables with the cattle for breeding purposes!!!
So, enlightenment and free thinking is not an easy path nor a fast one, as we can see when we look all around us. And it comes down to evolvement IMHO, of not just the soul, but of humanity itself - and reaching the point where none of us need to be governed or restrained will signify the end of the chains with which religion and other men's words bind us.
But, if we open our hearts, minds (and ears);)we can pick up those who are genuinly evolved and think for themselves, through Spirit, with no egomania - (silly to say no ego, because we all have to have one;)) Then we can surely seelots of peoplewho love themselves, purely BECAUSE they recognise they are a part of Spirit and therefore glory in that and their marvellous capability for free ranging intellect.
With love
Gillyxxx
RE: Is mankind fallen or corrupted?
Hi all - this is an interesting question and a good topic which couldbe fleshed outfor lenghty discussion on this forum. There is something about this in Hawkes, Ideology I recall.Along the lines of tracing distinct linesof ideologyduring different periods & marked in philosophical & religiousthought. That's a bit of a pandoras box - but there was a theory in there somewhereof 'materialism' as having surplanted the spiritual /god as 'our' collective ideology as the dominant [ ideology of modern consciousness]Iread it asimplying perhaps, an ursurpation of proper 'order' involving the juxtaposition of subject & object, order & chaos, as it were. The material as never having meant to gain that status . Perhaps that's representative of the fall of mankind, I don't know...Perhaps mankind is trapped itself in it's own fall by enveloping itself in a climate of acquisitiveness, aspiring to want, top fill the widening chasm of empty spirits.
If 'materialism' is the dominiant ideology of modern consciousnessthen perhapsby implication itis representative offalse worshipof something base, as the material ( object) derives from man, rather than fromthe higher grace of- God.
..I'm sure there's hope of redemption for all fallen angels..
[sm=FIFangel.gif]
RE: Is mankind fallen or corrupted?
Welcome to HP brotherbear!
I think along very similar lines to your words above.
I look forward to reading more of your posts.
Judy
RE: Is mankind fallen or corrupted?
ORIGINAL: brotherbear
..I'm sure there's hope of redemption for all fallen angels..
[sm=FIFangel.gif]
Very, very true when one redeems the principles of the divine feminine.
Human kind fallen and only now learning to be human beings, being Human KIND once again.
Spiritual beings having a human experience.
The human spirit/will is strong and can overcome the most amazing tragedy, yet depending on the impact of childhood issues the mind can be weakened IMHV. Children are corrupted by the society of the day, we just have to look at the materialistic society we have co-created full of selfish desire, emotional neediness, happiness and evulation outside of the self.
Love beyond measure
Kim xx