god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

Dear Andre,

I can’t get these channels (only the 5 terrestrial ones!) so I really can’t comment. However, I have often been curious about these healing meetings, coming as I do from a background of Christian Science, which is based on original, pre-Constantine Christianity, in which healing through prayer was a normal part of one’s faith and understanding. I would love to learn that these "mass" healings are permanent – I really would and if anyone is reading this who knows, please enlighten us!

A few weeks ago, Venetian started a thread which became very lively, on the findings of the charming Prof. Kathy Sykes’ three programmes where she looked at alternative healing and the placebo effect.

During the programme, she went to one of these charismatic meetings, which she obviously felt very uncomfortable with. She used the words: "high level of expectation"; "emotional build-up" and "manipulation" with her description of the mass healing show at the football stadium.

I shard this account which I have always found thought-provoking. Share it with no comment from me:

From a testimony in the Dec 1986 Christian Science Journal.

The writer, from Argentina, had a growth at the base of her skull, which had started to enlarge and become very painful. She had rejected conventional material medicine and had investigated all sorts of alternative and complementary therapies.

"We had been told about a minister of a certain Christian denomination (not Christian Science) who was said to heal as Jesus did. With great faith and hope I attended his church at some distance from our home. I joined in the religious ceremony there, during which those present glorified God with shouts and with their hands lifted into the air. At one point, because I was seeking healing, the minister put his hand on my forehead and prayed aloud. I began to feel ashamed and doubtful, then suddenly I fell backward but felt no pain as I hit the floor behind me. I only heard voices saying "Hallelujah" and "Glory to God.’ When I got up unassisted, I touched my neck and the growth was gone! With great emotion I glorified God with the congregation and then left for home, full of joy. But as the bus to my town travelled along, my neck began to swell and become painful again. By the time I got home to my husband, a growth on my neck was fully in evidence, just as before."

She then remembered that she’d been given the name and address of a Christian Science practitioner but had forgotten where she had put it. After earnest prayer, she got up and went right to the book it was in, on her bookshelf. She contacted the practitioner who prayed for her and by the end of the week, she was permanently healed.

"In the years following this healing I often wondered: What is the explanation for what happened with the faith healer, who was – I must point out - a very good, sincere and loving man, dedicated to his ministry? The answer came when I read these statements in Science and Health (p. 101): "In no instance is the effect of animal magnetism, recently called hypnotism, other than the effect of illusion." Earlier on the same page Mrs Eddy writes: "If animal magnetism seems to alleviate or to cure disease, this appearance is deceptive, since error cannot remove the effects of error." Also, our dear Master, Christ Jesus told us (Matt. 7:16): "Ye shall know them by their fruits."

Love and peace,

Judy

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

hi judy

a numder of years ago i was taken in strongly by joyce meyer ,my life changed as a result of listening to her from day one,from then on i recorded her everyday on sky, i was enthralled by her words, everything impacted me in every way.
she put the bible in her own words of today.

i waited and saved up to go to her meeting when she arrived in britian at the nec,i got in and was very near to the stage it was electrifiying. there was looked like thousands,
i thought i am seeing joyce meyer after many years of watching her on tv,camera crews were there and being taped for her videos.

i sat down and she came on , it was sureal!, now i witnessed something that was never shown on any of her programs.
she started by saying,about how good her ministry was and that she did not need our money! that she could pay for all this trip to the uk if she wanted to. i thought what are you talking about?
she carried on saying that everyone should get out their wallets credit cards accepted and cash of all types and give now !, there will be many people coming around with baskets.
suddenly as if everyone were like automated robots were writing out cheques and putting credit card numbers on papers, i witnessed this next to me.
i thought ,what the heck is going on.

i didnt feel good!, its not because of the giving money it was something deep inside me saying " (GET OUT NOW), i stood up ,pushed past people in their seats writing cheques and i quickly got outside.

and that i walked across the nec carpark that was deadly quiet, and heard the sound of roars of the people inside at their praise to joyce.

not a soul was about ,i stopped and thought to myself, there is a mass of people in there why is it only me that walked out, i kept looking behind to see if others had walked out too.but not a soul

it took me a while to get to my car, each time i looked back no one else came out.the car park was quiet,no one about

i wonder to this day why i had that message inside me.

it felt like a controlled cult!!!!!!!!!!!, i tell you what you see on tv is largely edited, inside that place were like hypnotised robots.

i love god the father and jesus but, that was not right in there,

phew!!!!!!!!!!!went on a bit there.

but i do now look at things differently, but still amazed at the masses of crowds that follow them, i am still unsure as to the healing that is a miracle , but when you watch someone like benny hinn, who has thousands following him
,its a im not sure?is this actually real?thought , but if sometimes you notice before the person comes on stage to say what has happened to them while in the audience, the men in suits are whispering in their ear,mmmmmmm.

he said to the tv a woman has been cured through the tv now!
by him saying,you are cured in the name of jesus, no more cancer, the tumour has gone! a pretty hefty statement to make, these are serious illnesses.

what do others think also?

god bless
andre[sm=FIFangel.gif]

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

Some days ago (I forget the title) there was a TV docu on the rise of Christian fundamentalism here in the UK. It was quite an eye-opener. Rich Christians build schools now in some UK areas, and teach a strict evangelistic line e.g. evolution is put down and the world began 6,000 years ago. But they're new state schools, so that the parents and children have no choice but to go to them, which is outrageous. Admittedly the guy making the programme had a bit of an axe to grind, but it made me pretty suspicious about the agenda here. According to him, anyway, if you follow-up on "healed" people from these mass rallies, they aren't healed at all, or it quickly passes.

I was persuaded years ago to go to one Benny Hinn event and I found it very disturbing, and not at all spiritual (IMHO). My body was crying out, "Get me out of here!!!" IMO an awful vibration. I'd have to say it seemed like hysteria: he waved his hand, and thousands of shouting people all fell onto the floor. The pounding rhythm of the music was louder than most discos.

I haven't got the religious channels either, but are they anything like the ones in America? Preachers just come on in the ads and don't even give a spiritual message! [&o]- they basically just say "Send all your money to this address. Or here's the phone number. Have your credit cards ready!" I couldn't believe it. The ads must work or they wouldn't pay for them.

Venetian

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

hi ventian

sky has i would say about 8 channels, a new one has just come on called god uk, since i started watching joyce years ago on sky the channels have doubled.
some of the channels are so poorly recorded with distorted sound and looks liks pirate recordings type quality.

when joyce visited the uk, the nec was full, so she must be as big in the uk,year before she went to ireland belfast.

but to be honest somtimes i now and then still have a look at joyces programmes ,i do like somethings the thingsshe says and it feels good, but then i am put off by her wealth hanging from her.

and if you notice they always talk about tithing, the big word,,,they say",if you tithe daily a third of your money then you will reap back 100 times more as jesus said, give now".

but yes sky is adding them on, i suppose as long as sky is paid then they will put it on.

its missions week this week ,this morning this chap said at least give 500 pounds! WHAT 500 pounds,
not whatever you can give but now telling you what amount, benny hinn also said this morning give 200 dollars and i will send you a little orament

(i am not always watching these channels ,i watch to see what i cannot believe, it like a sort of entertainment)

why dont they give people advice how they can help there community and people suffering illnesses around them, to help the hurting,lonely and poor around us,not only giving money but personally getting out and calling on someone for a chat whom needs company.
the sad thing is that we hear on the news of so many millions has been given and most of it is swallowed up by red tape,or taken in the profits of these people.

i do not like to speak wrong of people but these people whom flaunt the word of god for wrong reasons and personal wealthis not right.
only a small portion actually reaches those who need it as to show that something has been done.

oooooooohhhhhhh ,dont get me started![sm=jump3.gif]im on a roll! anyway there we are i have had a release there[sm=nature-smiley-008.gif]

god bless
andre[sm=FIFangel.gif]

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

Traditionally, and in the Bible, tithing is to give one tenth of your income to a worthy cause. I'm not sceptical about the fact that it can create a "flow" for you: esoteric Laws can work that way. But I never heard of it being a third (!); nor does it sound right to put a figure on it.

Obviously churches and religions need income. I understand that: how else do you build a church, even economically? But it's when money becomes, seemingly, the whole and main point... Which of course has happened with 'religious leaders' of East as well as West.

V

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

Good morning Andre and Venetian,

It doesn't surprise me that you both had similar experiences and Venetian, I remember you telling us of how, when you were young, you were at a meeting of a scary mind-control cult. Everyone around you was behaving in a possessed way, but you were untouched by it. Independent thinkers you two.

By coincidence, as I was waiting for my computer to boot up, I opened the Feb issue of the CS Journal at a Q&A page where the question for the month was "Do Christian Scientists believe in tithing?" 😉

One of the people who answered recounts how she attended the church of a school friend of hers and how, during the service, an announcement was made about those who were badly behind in their payments. Everyone was named, including her friend's family. She was deeply embarrased by this and it seemed so unfair as the father had lost his job and was struggling to pay the household bills.

In case you wondered, in our Church Manual, Mary Baker Eddy wrote:

Per Capita Tax. SECT. 13. Every member of The Mother Church shall pay annually a per capita tax of not less than one dollar, which shall be forwarded each year to the Church Treasurer.

Even though a dollar was worth much more a hundred years ago, that hasn't changed and never will. Anything else is left up to the individual, both in donations towards our Mother Church and for our branch churches. All is completely private - it's a personal expression of gratitude.

One of the other people who answered tells of the experience of a friend of hers who was struggling financially and then had the idea that she would really love to give a tithe as an expression of her gratitude. She realised that there was a Biblical principle underlying this idea and that principle had to do with the divine economy - the perfect law of supply and demand. She further reasoned that if 10% (according to Scripture) is the amount needed for a church to fulfil its purpose, then surely, God's law of perfect economy would provide that amount for each member above what they would have otherwise?

The first month she did this, her income doubled. It doubled again the second month and so on until all her financial security was wiped out. By investing 10% in Church, she received a 90% return!

Love and peace,

Judy

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

Hi Judy,

Yes, to clarify, I do believe in tithing as something that can work through, as you put it, the Divine Economy. People who clutch at every penny or cent for themselves, and I do know people like that, have no flow - no sense of the abundance of the universe. I "tithe" myself though not ten percent. It's a standing order so you don't notice and just forget it. To my belief, mild tithing really can increase your economic flow, like sucking water through one end of a tube and it just keeps flowing. However the "return" may not be monetary (and that's never the motive!), but is also in good works. But I wouldn't suddenly grab my credit card because of a TV evengelist I never heard of!

A good example of "giving back" would be the inspirational business leader, Anthony Robbins. He's rolling in it, but has established various charities and started out in the first place just wanting to help others.

As you mention "when you were young, you were at a meeting of a scary mind-control cult", I wouldn't quite call it mind-control, or scary, or even a cult (!) but it was Subud and I did find it very wierd. As I wrote, yes, a very real "possession" jumped from one to another till everybody was really possessed. Not really scary, as they were used to doing this regularly. But that's right, it was my initiation meeting, and I just stood there in the middle with nothing happening, as if it couldn't touch me. They're welcome to it, but I don't think they really understood what was going on. People were crawling around and roaring like a lion, or others were speaking in languages they didn't know. Their eyes were closed but they were all moving around and never hit each other. You're not meant to look but obviously with all that going on I had to peek! Not my cup of tea, thanks!

Subud members (it began in the East)think they're in something quite new and unique, but IMO it's just the same phenomenon as happens in some Christian congregations.

Venetian

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

I've only watched these types of shows on friends telly's cos we only have the 5 channels ourself. Every time I've seen it, I just can't help laughing at the bizarreness of it all. All those people, almost appearing as if they are brainwashed into believing whatever it is they are told. The media is biased on all fronts so you can't take anything as read, but I've seen programmes on tv showing these church leaders and how they drive around in their flashy cars with their big houses and expensive clothes, whilst their followers are just so happy to give them all their money and posessions. IMHO, some of these poeple need to start thinking for themselves and having their own beliefs without being told what to believe by others. It's all a bit cultish to me.

Saying that though, I was at sixth form in a Roman Catholic school (yes, me an atheist!), and I recall the first assembly I went to. We were all sat there and listening to whatever was being said, and then the catholic priest said something and all of a sudden everybody was crossing themselves. I was amazed at how robotic and automated everyone was just from the saying of a few words. At the time I just thought "they're all brainwashed". It just seemed like they were all of a totally different frame of mind to how they were when they were going about their day to day school life. Their religion just seemed like a "switch on - switch off" sort of thing.

Ah well, it didn't inspire me, and as I've always said, each to their own beliefs.

Love and Reiki Hugs

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

Hi Giles,

Well, on flashy cars and so on, some years back two of the most famous American TV evangelists were indeed exposed as having incredible personal wealth from all this. They were also exposed as having been involved in sexual shenanigans of exactly the kind they preached against. Off-hand I forget the name of one, but the actual name of the other was Oral Roberts, which turned out to be a bit unfortunate (or apt!).

I know nothing of his personal life, but when I saw Benny Hinn live he had a pretty normal appearance of a guy in a smart suit. But some years later I saw him on mainstream TV and he had the most huge and ridiculous front quiff to his hair! - quite hilarious, it must have been about three inches high. 😉

V

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

hi all

when i was in deep with the joyce meyer period i came across this website that i used to contribute my views to.an awful lotis discussed here about the likes of :joyce meyer,benny hinn,joel osteen etc etc. and to the bone!!!!

ifyou click on [link= http://www.rateitall.com ]www.rateitall.com[/link]
and enter into the search bar on the site joyce meyer,benny hinn ,you will see plenty of opinions most fully against and most for. a lot of people have really much praise on here.
a very interesting read ,

so search for: benny hinn in the search bar on this sitefor example and you will find a whole array of this world. see what you think.there was one listing where a man gave so much to joyce meyer ministry that he found financial difficulty,he tried to ask joyce for help,but no replies, didnt want to know.

a little more info.

god bless
andre[sm=FIFangel.gif]

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

Hi Andre,

Looks like an interesting link. I had a glance but am short on time now today, so could return to it. It certainly can be opinionated! I must in fact do a slight, possible about-face. There's a friend of mine who's one of the most discerning people I ever met; I doubt it was any of these names he was telling me about as it was 1970, but for the record I must admit he did go to one of these meetings. He actually wanted a vital question answered, and there were at least hundreds of people there. The evangelist lady was actually finished and off the stage when he sent out the thought of his deep question. She reappeared, walked straight past everyone else, went right up to him and gave him the sign he'd silently asked for.

So - I don't know what to make of that. Good ones and bad ones?

V

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

Dear Andre

An interesting thread and sounds like your soul intuition is spot on! Mind-control and brainwashing indeed and Anthony Robbins is also an expert at that, interesting that I have met quite a few people lately who have attended his seminars and the response was at the time they felt fantastic but the feeling soon wore off and maybe it is the same for the churchgoers so it becomes a drug for the high. However, the root causes of their own unhappiness within themselves are not healed hence why they need the drug.

I agree if the evangelists were telling people the true scripture of giving and helping the poor etc and not their own organisation that would be great and pure intent. Jesus warned against people building buildings e.g. churches upon his foundations and he said this would come into the light of day during the end times which I feel we face now as people are waking up more and more to mind control methods used in a majority of religions down the ages.

This is something that I wrote a few years ago about charity.

THE MOST IMPORTANT SPIRITUAL VIRTUE

CHARITY

Charity is the opposite to selfishness and is one of the foremost spiritual virtues. In ancient Egypt and other ancient civilisations the wealthy gave a percentage of their wealth to the priests in the temples. The priests realised that, if they were to fulfil their duty of compassion in the land, they must take from the wealthy some of their substance so that it could be shared amongst those who were poor or worse off. This was called a levy, whereby a certain sum of each man's wealth was given freely for the use of the priests and a certain part of each man's harvest was to be donated for the free use of the priests, so that it could be given in charity to the poor.

You might ask why was a levy considered necessary? Why didn't the wealthy give from the generosity of their own hearts? They did not give for the same reason that we do not give in today's society. Mankind came to love their own treasure and to love the prestige that it portrayed, they were blinded by self-concern and did not see the suffering of those of the poor and sick – and so charity became established in the upper and lower lands of Egypt.

To encourage the giving by the wealthy to the poor, the priests devised a means by which at a certain season of the year, when the harvest was gathered, a great festival of giving would take place, it was called the 'Festival of Rejoicing', the Festival of Giving ( from which originated the Christian Harvest Festival).

What importance did this spiritual virtue have to the growth of our soul? It was not the importance of generosity, it was not the giving of love, but it did have importance because often the giving was painful to the giver and therefore it was savoured with the quality of sacrifice. The Egyptians believed that this symbol of sacrifice illumines the aura of the soul with a bright flame which is a light that can be seen by the angelic realms. The priests would say to the people have you contributed anything unto the flame, the fire which burns within your temple? The temple being the physical housing for our soul.

Many years later this teaching was taken from Egypt by the Israelites, who inherited so much of the ritual and wisdom of Egypt. When they left the wilderness, they remembered some of these teachings. Moses the Law-giver remembered what he had learned in the Lands and realised that he too must teach mosaic law so he introduced a levy. Each year every man contributed something to the wealth of the new-born nation.

This was also developed by the early Christians. But in today's society the original meaning of Charity has been forgotten and the priests do not demand a tenth of each man's wealth. (This does not include the US). It has simply degenerated into a simple festival of thanksgiving where no sacrifice is made. Charity is not just about sharing our wealth in financial terms, for those that have less, sharing a meal, providing a food package, lendin

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

I once turned on the tv when I was deeply troubled. I needed help on a specific issue. Joyce Meyer was preaching and, at the moment that I turned on the tv, she spoke exactly the word I needed to hear. I sent a donation immediately, because I believe in feeding what feeds me spiritually. Since then, I've listened to Joyce many times and never gotten a word again, the way I did that day.

When you ask, the answer will come and God can use any vehicle to bring it to you. Does that mean the vehicle is infallible? Not if they are human.

Benny Hinn? I've watched him closely, very closely indeed. I've watched every program I could find on him because he fascinates me. I do feel that something moves thru Benny. Something divine. I don't feel that it always moves. Again, he is human. Some days, perhaps more willing to let the personality self move out of the way so that the divine can enter in.

Is it mind control? For some, yes. For others, life changes forever.

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

Hi hnasc,

Welcome to HP!

You are so right - God comes to us exactly where we are at the time to give us the answer we need. Glad you had a good experience there.

I would still love to hear from someone who was supposedly "healed" to find out whether it was a permanent cure or whether the problem came back once they were away from the mental influence of the charasmatic.

Love and peace,

Judy

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

Hi Everyone

The Lord speaks to us in many ways and through many vehicles and what is right for one is not for another. If you have benfited from any of these ministries then that is great, take on board what God wants to tell you then move on......if you want to contribute financially to any of them do it because it is what the Lord wants.

Joyce Meyer has 'spoken' to me a great many times through the last 2 years and her minisitry actually does incredible missionary work overseas whether we like it or not.I go on the Lord's guidance with ministries and am not a slave to any of them, I just take what Jesus is trying to tell, advice meor even correct me on. I try to be obedient to his ways for me.

As in every way in life we also need to be discerning in our spiritual walk with God as not all spiritual ways are from the Lord I hate to say, 'but seek the Lord with all your heart and he will keep your paths straight' Proverbs 3 v6.............

As for Sky Christianchannels, with the exception of Revelation TV all the others are broadcast outside the UK hence having 'Missions' weeks throughout the year. Due to the strict UK broadcasting rules about asking for money on air, Revelation TV don't/can't have these 'missions' weeks so they really do need financial support from the public.

As for some of these ministries having great wealth, remember Soloman had wealth beyond all understanding which was for his obedience to the Lord (yes I know he later sinned). God is not opposed to wealth but will give this to you if you will submityour life to him for his purpose in your life and the Lord likes a cheerful giver!

[sm=nature-smiley-008.gif]Have a lovely day everyone.

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

Hi Jacque,

A very intelligent post - thanks. However, coming from a background of Christian healing as I do, have you any knowledge of anyone has has been permanently cured through these meetings?

I really would love to know.

Love and peace,

Judy

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

Judy

I've never attended any of these conferences but am thinking of attending Joyce Meyer in Houston, Texas (also to see friends there) if the Lord desires, so I can't speak from experience.

The Bishop of our small church here on the Costa Blanca is a Spaniard whose diocese also covers certain parts of South America and Africa. He has seen miracles in healing through prayer in these countries. At Easter when he and 2 of our congregation who are also mature theological students were in Brazil they were witness toa blind man regain his sight through intercessory prayer of which they were a part. Apparently healing miracles are commonplace outside of Europe where faith in Jesus is very strong.

[sm=nature-smiley-008.gif]From a warm and very sunny Spain

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

ORIGINAL: Jacque

As for some of these ministries having great wealth, remember Soloman had wealth beyond all understanding which was for his obedience to the Lord (yes I know he later sinned). God is not opposed to wealth

I do agree that God is not opposed to wealth.

As far asI recall from weeks back, this thread went into the famous American evangelists who were exposed as being hypocrits in the 1980s - they were seeing prostitutes and then in the same day preaching against "sin". So far as money was concerned, it wasn't the "ministries" that had wealth but the personal people, the self-appointed American TV"ministers" who became rich on the backs of the gullible.

That's the point here - that such people existed and will continue to exist.

V

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

Hi Jacque,

Thanks for getting back to me! Yes, I am aware of some wonderful healings that are happening around the world - it's what we have always hoped for - that other churches besides our own would take up the whole way of following Jesus.

I'll be interested to know how you feel about the meeting if you do go. What I want to know is whether these mass meetings under the control of a charismatic preacher (that frankly look to me like mass hypnotism or hysteria) actually has lasting effect. Obviously, I've only seen these on television, but my form is worship is in quiet dignity and it doesn't appeal to me at all, but I must not let those prejudices affect my thought if it is genuine - each to his own.

Love and peace,

Judy

RE: god channel,joyce meyer,benny hinn!,,healing??real?

i was to believe the bible when god says-"you should annoint a person with the oil of my people" which is olive oil! a christian, not only a pastor or reverend, should place a dab of olive oil on the persons forehead and pray for a healing. the oil doesnt do the healing, being obedient to GOD and his divine intervention does the healing!!