Dear MC
The saddest part of all is that fundamentalists do not realise that a literal mind is a material and carnal mind and this is against God. These are strong words indeed.
“For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God” Rom.8.6-7 This antipathy turns back upon the self because if one does not understand the self one cannot understand the cosmos. So for instance when there are stories of Jesus bringing people back from the dead the reference is to the spiritually dead. He woke them up, they were resurrected (the original work means 'awaken]. They became spiritual aware, their eyes were opened by his light of love.
Jesus rebuked the apostles for not understanding the inner spiritual meanings of his teachings. He rebuked the Jewish priests as well for the same reasons he called them blind masters another term in 21st century language would be closed minded or narrow minded. To truly understand the teachings of God one has to move beyond the literal mind because the literal mind is blocked from seeing the bigger picture. One has to open up one’s awareness so that one can have ‘conscious vision’ of the metaphysics buried deep within the inner meanings of spiritual texts. To understand the language of symbology, allegory and the light of love that shines forth.
When Jesus sent the disciples out; he sent them to teach the new covenant of love that could heal the demons within individuals. He sent them out to heal others and teach them self-mastery over negative thoughts, words and life experiences. How many fundamentalists follow the way of their teacher and become healers, healers that heal with love and compassion. Calling people sinners is not the word of love, materialism is not the act of love, the carnal literal mind is not the spiritual mind and heart that Jesus did his best to cultivate IMHE.
He tilled the soil of the soul and fertilised it with love.....this was his way.....he told his disciples that they could follow him...go the way that he had gone....raising the consciousness of the self and others along the journey. A soul that is not lost does not need to be saved......
being love
Kim xx
RE: Fundamentalism
Kim, was this meant to be in reply to MC on another thread?
If so can you repost it on the correct thread and let a mod know so we can delete this one.
Love and Reiki Hugs
RE: Fundamentalism
No I think it deserves a thread of its own Giles. 😀
As it really applies to all fundamentalists whatever their persuasion.
Hugs
Kim xx
RE: Fundamentalism
Was just confused as you had addressed it to MC.
That's fine then. I'll leave it be.
Love and Reiki Hugs
RE: Fundamentalism
Hi Kim,
I know this is addrssed to Mc, but I am rathr concerned here by one of your remarks:
for instance when there are stories of Jesus bringing people back from the dead the reference is to the spiritually dead. He woke them up, they were resurrected (the original work means 'awaken]. They became spiritual aware, their eyes were opened by his light of love.
I hope that you are not trying to infer that Jesus did not actually raise the dead in a literal, physical way, because he most certainly did. (If you wonder why I am so sure, it's because his 19th C disciple Mary Baker Eddy was able to do so a few times and there have been other (albeit rare) cases since.) Nothing is impossible to God. Just don't want to think you might be de-valueing what Jesus did, that's all! 😉
Love and peace,
Judy
RE: Fundamentalism
Dear Judy
Perhaps you would like to provide some modern day evidence.
At this moment in time we do not have any real evidence of who Jesus was because we know that the bible can not be relied upon as a literal historical document and there is very little if any real evidence to support what there is. I have no doubt that an amazing person given the name Jesus actually did live but there are many conflicting avenues. Which is why I keep my mind open to all eventuality of new discovery.
being love
Kim xx
RE: Fundamentalism
Oh Kim,
I just don't want to go round and round in circles with you anymore. I could ask what evidence you have that Jesus didn't heal? You talk about an open mind but this seems to me to be just the opposite! It seems you are insiting on clinging onto the material sense of life which frankly puzzles me.
What is this resistance that you seem to have towards accepting the possibility of physical healing through spiritual understanding? You seem to want to undermine what Jesus showed us about the spiritual reality of life - that's what bothers me.
Venetian has accounts of Hindu gurus who are reported to have resurrected themselves from death, like Jesus.
When I first came to HP, it appeared to me that you didn't like me writing about healing and would write things like this, (which came in the middle of a thread where someone was asking me questions about spiritual healing in Christian Science.)
Kim
Omar my day-to-day guide also says that "some will remain lame and some will win the game" and this is what is meant in the bible when they speak of lame it actually means people with a lot of baggage to heal and when they speak of being blind it means those that cannot see the light or refuse to. Jesus also did not turn water into wine after his dear mother pointed out that different castes were drinking different things and that this was unjust he instructed the wine pourers to give wine to everybody. So simple yet so misconstrued.
I really thought you had progressed beyond all that Kim and am very disappointed. (I then immediately posted the healing of a woman who had been blind for 4 years because of diabetes, whose sight was then restored - and the diabetes healed - when she had Science and Health read out loud to her. I always keep files after I've laboriously copied out healings etc from books, which is why I've still got your quote from 2002)
If you go to the Christian Science Reading Room in the town where you live and ask to borrow the book "Mary Baker Eddy Christian healer", you will find (I can't remember if it's three or four) accounts where it was believed by all present that the patient had passed on and Mrs Eddy restored them to life through her understanding of the laws of God. Eddy healed thousands of every conceivable physical disease, disability, including those termed incurable or terminal.
In Science and Health (p 193) Mrs Eddy gives us an account of the complete healing of Mr Clark, who was near death.
I was called to visit Mr. Clark in Lynn, who had been confined to his bed six months with hip-disease, caused by a fall upon a wooden spike when quite a boy. On entering the house I met his physician, who said that the patient was dying. The physician had just probed the ulcer on the hip, and said the bone was carious for several inches. He even showed me the probe, which had on it the evidence of this condition of the bone. The doctor went out. Mr. Clark lay with his eyes fixed and sightless. The dew of death was on his brow. I went to his bedside. In a few moments his face changed; its death-pallor gave place to a natural hue. The eyelids closed gently and the breathing became natural; he was asleep. In about ten minutes he opened his eyes and said: "I feel like a new man. My suffering is all gone." It was between three and four o'clock in the afternoon when this took place.
I told him to rise, dress himself, and take supper with his family. He did so.
My mother, one Sunday morning, found one of our fishes had jumped out of its bowl and was lying still on the floor, completely dry and covered with dust. She placed it back in the bowl, but it simply floated on top, showing no movement. She told no one, but went to church and the Bible Lesson (that she had been studying all week) was on Life - a synonym for God. She applied every statement she heard about the eternality of Life, that life is not in matter e
RE: Fundamentalism
I hear you say fundamentalist call people "sinners." But we ourselves are sinners to. All people are. Listen, I'm not one of those fundamenalists who is going to go around preaching that people will "go to hell." That's not an effective way to witness to people and I shudder at those who do this. I do believe we are saved through faith in Jesus Christ, as is demostrated in John 3:16 or Ephesians 2:8-9.
"For God so loved the world, the He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish but have eternal life." (John 3:16 NIV)
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, not by works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9 NIV)
The Bible to me, clearly says we are saved through eternal life and only through Jesus Christ. I know what the Bible says about hell and everlasting life, so I have accepted God's free gift of eternal life. What will happen to those who don't? I know what I feel biblically, but I'm not the ultimate judge. God is. It's not up to me. All I can do is live my life the way the Bible teaches me to.
And Sacred Star, I do agree that Jesus rebuked the disciples for not understanding things, but many of them were Him foreshadowing His own death.He rebuked the Pharisees and Jewish leaders because they were arrogant and full of themselves.
RE: Fundamentalism
ORIGINAL: Principled
1. I could ask what evidence you have that Jesus didn't heal? You talk about an open mind but this seems to me to be just the opposite! It seems you are insiting on clinging onto the material sense of life which frankly puzzles me.What is this resistance that you seem to have towards accepting the possibility of physical healing through spiritual understanding?
This is your own perception Judy I have never said that Jesus did not heal in fact I have said many times he was probably one of the most amazing shamans ever to walk the planet.
2. Venetian has accounts of Hindu gurus who are reported to have resurrected themselves from death, like Jesus.
Well heresay isn't proof........its shame that we don't get to talk to the people who say they witness these events. Heresay and third party accounts do not hold up in a court of law. You know me Judy I only believe it if I see it with mine own eyes.
When I first came to HP, it appeared to me that you didn't like me writing about healing and would write things like this, (which came in the middle of a thread where someone was asking me questions about spiritual healing in Christian Science.)
Not all at dear heart I encourage Christians to follow in their role models steps to be healers....and so do tell me Judy do they teach spiritual healing in Christian Science churches?
Kim
Omar my day-to-day guide also says that "some will remain lame and some will win the game" and this is what is meant in the bible when they speak of lame it actually means people with a lot of baggage to heal and when they speak of being blind it means those that cannot see the light or refuse to. Jesus also did not turn water into wine after his dear mother pointed out that different castes were drinking different things and that this was unjust he instructed the wine pourers to give wine to everybody. So simple yet so misconstrued.
If you go to the Christian Science Reading Room in the town where you live and ask to borrow the book "Mary Baker Eddy Christian healer", you will find (I can't remember if it's three or four) accounts where it was believed by all present that the patient had passed on and Mrs Eddy restored them to life through her understanding of the laws of God. Eddy healed thousands of every conceivable physical disease, disability, including those termed incurable or terminal.
Well I am also aware of a case where a person thought they had been healed by Christian Science but masses of people were sending healing absently to the person concerned and the person had forgotten about that.
Goodness Judy I don't doubt that Christian Sciences helps souls to heal themselves. However, I am aware that no soul will heal unless it agrees to it.
If such healing is possible today and comes about through what Mary Baker Eddy discovered in the Bible from Jesus' healing works, how on earth could you, or anyone, believe that Jesus didn't heal (or even didn't exist?) It's the same metaphysical laws under-girding them all. Jesus was the Master Healer.
Not sure where you are coming from; you seem to have misunderstood me Judy. I am a healer myself, not only am I a healer but I teach others to be healers too! Why would a healer doubt that healing was possible you have lost me, it just does not make sense. I have also stated here on HP that I have also witnessed miracles and yes have even been known to raise the spiritually dead and feed thousands with food that feeds the soul. However, raise the dead? Well I guess in mediumship yes but literal dead physical matter no never, and I honestly do not believe that anyone else can either unless it was a mistaken OBE. I have experienced an OBE and can assure you that I was not dead!
Maybe that was it, maybe Jesus raised the dead by speaking to the dead........;) Just like Magdalene spoke to Jesus.....in the Gospel of Mary.
Love be
RE: Fundamentalism
ORIGINAL: mcnabbmcnow
I hear you say fundamentalist call people "sinners." But we ourselves are sinners to. All people are.
Well that is where we differ MC this doctrine is old theology belonging the Jewish religion. It is part of duality which Jesus came to help people move on from.
Listen, I'm not one of those fundamenalists who is going to go around preaching that people will "go to hell."
As someone who has been to hell a few times I agree with the Pope hell and heaven are within.
I do believe we are saved through faith in Jesus Christ, as is demostrated in John 3:16 or Ephesians 2:8-9.
The word faith was introduced by theologians in the 1500's the original translation of the word faith is 'trust'.
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, not by works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9 NIV)
Well this is where it all goes astray if one does not understand the true meaning of salvation and the convenant of love. I think I made a post on this a couple of weeks ago. One is only saved if one follows the spiritual path and the way of love that Jesus tried to show us. However, it is also clear from the bible and the Gospel of Thomas that if one was not sick or lost one did not need to be saved at all.
The Bible to me, clearly says we are saved through eternal life and only through Jesus Christ.
He showed us the way on the path of love.
I know what the Bible says about hell and everlasting life, so I have accepted God's free gift of eternal life.
Well yes we are immortal whether we believe in God or not.
What will happen to those who don't? I know what I feel biblically, but I'm not the ultimate judge. God is. It's not up to me. All I can do is live my life the way the Bible teaches me to.
Again that is where we differ. God does not judge it is only man that judges. Hence why it says 'Judge not or ye will be judged, condemn not or he will be condemned. I think Jesus must have been well ahead of his time scientifically because it is only now n the 21st century that scientists are now proving the power of words, thoughts, beliefs and perceptions on our cellular biology.
And Sacred Star, I do agree that Jesus rebuked the disciples for not understanding things, but many of them were Him foreshadowing His own death.
It was more than that, he got frustrated with them, practically called them stupid for not understanding the spiritual and certainly lost his patience a few times. Hence why he took Thomas aside and shared more with him in secret. He was more spiritually advanced than some of the others.
Check out the following Mt.16:2,3. Mt.16:7. Mt.16.II. Jn3:12. Mt.13:10-13 Mt. 13:16 and most of the GT he is teaching and rebuking them. I guess in modern language he would be saying 'For goodness sake do catch up' or 'wake up' I have been known to use a term of endearment wooden heads. LOL! 😀 The literal carnal minds just could not get it......they couldn't understand the inner meanings of the spiritual concepts that he was presenting to them. Jesus thought he was making it really simple expressing it in parables yet at times they still didn't understand him. In the same way that a lot of people do not understand now......yet it is so very simple....
He rebuked the Pharisees and Jewish leaders because they were arrogant and full of themselves.
It was a lot more than that they were holding onto the old theology and not embracing the new convenant of love that he was sent to bring. Jesus knew that law of love brought freedom, equality and liberation to the people. However, the priests held on to their old beliefs and their comfort zones and would not move with the times. Jesus knew how damaging this old theology of sin was to people's mind, body and souls. He knew what they were teaching was nothing more than pollution tha
RE: Fundamentalism
Dear MC
I was thinking for you and was shown these passages.
Matthew 7:7-29 (NIV)
Ask, Seek, Knock
7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
These are the mansions within.
9"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
We reap what we sow......the more love that we give the more love we receive.
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
This is very true........few arrive at the 'eye of the needle' and many are not prepated to let go of the past. The eye of the needle is slim indeed and one cannot take much with us when we go through it to the other side into the Kingdom of Love.
The Wise and Foolish Builders
24"Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."
This is what happens when the foundations are not built on the rock of truth and love. A house built on sand is a house built on lies and unfortunately Christianity has been built upon many lies, a great deal of deception and crimes against humanity. Sadly, it will pay the price because history repeats itself; it shows us that anyone that tries to control and/or dominate the children of God with false doctrines or an iron fist eventually destroys itself with its own hand. It is a nature of the natural spiritual laws of the cosmos.
28When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.
being love
Kim xx
RE: Fundamentalism
Kim, great verses, though I disagree with your interpretation of them. We do reap what we sow, but that is partially talking about sin. When we sin, there are consequences, both from man and from God. While it is important to love, there are a host of verses about judgement and sin that I believe you are ignoring or reinterpreting.
II Timothy 4:2
[link= http://bibletools.org//index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/29873/eVerseID/29873/version/kjv/opt/comm/RTD/cgg ]4:2[/link]Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
[link= http://bibletools.org//index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/29874/eVerseID/29874/version/kjv/opt/comm/RTD/cgg ]4:3[/link]For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
[link= http://bibletools.org//index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/29875/eVerseID/29875/version/kjv/opt/comm/RTD/cgg ]4:4[/link]And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Notice, verse 2 says to rebuke. It always has to be done in a loving way, and to help lead people out of sin.
John 7:24 Jesus says: “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” What Jesus does tell us is not to judge by our own opinions, but instead judge by the word of God, that is what it means to judge righteously. He always encouraged the people to judge
In 2 Thess. 3:14-15 “And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.” Strong guidelines that many avoid to do today. These are done not to condemn but to bring repentance and restoration.
Here is a great site on what the Bible ACTUALLY says about judging. [link= http://www.letusreason.org/Pent44.htm ]http://www.letusreason.org/Pent44.htm[/link]
RE: Fundamentalism
ORIGINAL: mcnabbmcnow
Kim, great verses, though I disagree with your interpretation of them. We do reap what we sow, but that is partially talking about sin.
No it is talking about karma and the first principles of the universe of cause and effect.
When we sin, there are consequences, both from man and from God.
We agree to disagree even the original word 'as to sin' was taken from archery and means to 'miss the mark'.
While it is important to love, there are a host of verses about judgement and sin that I believe you are ignoring or reinterpreting.Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
You are finding your own contradictions in the bible.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers;
Yes we see this a lot in Christian Fundamentalism there is a church on every corner in the US it seems to be the in thing to run a church which comes from sacrel chakra I WANT TO BE HAPPY and solar Plexux I AM POWER which is all about desire for self.
verse 2 says to rebuke. It always has to be done in a loving way, and to help lead people out of sin.
I agree with leading people out of the darkness of the spiritual wilderness. However, Jesus learnt the hard way that rebuking his fellow man did not acheive anything accept taking him to the gallows. Thats why he gave up with the priests and concentrated on helping those that were sick and lost.
7:24 Jesus says: “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment.” What Jesus does tell us is not to judge by our own opinions, but instead judge by the word of God, that is what it means to judge righteously. He always encouraged the people to judge
Again contradictions that need to be looked at chronologically because it is clear to me he moved on from judging others.
2 Thess. 3:14-15 “And if anyone does not obey our word in this epistle, note that person and do not keep company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet do not count him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.” Strong guidelines that many avoid to do today. These are done not to condemn but to bring repentance and restoration.
Again mans words not the word of God.
Here is a great site on what the Bible ACTUALLY says about judging. [link= http://www.letusreason.org/Pent44.htm ]http://www.letusreason.org/Pent44.htm[/link]
I have no need to look at these I have received directing teachings from God about zero judgement.
being love
Kim xx
RE: Fundamentalism
This is an old post
Christian Fundamentalists are against human rights!
Many Christian fundamentalists are no further forward then the Klu Klux Clan, the hatred and prejudice found for everyone that is not a Christian fundamentalist IS beyond belief. It was mainly due to these people that Bush got in again. Their minds and hearts are closed to love and so very hard for me to reconcile. They take bible text out of context to support their hatred and right to war with Iraq, in fact the priest that advises Bush appeared on television and stated that he would have sent in 500,000 troops instead of 125,000 to wipe out Iraq. They do not live the law of GOD 'thou shall not kill, turn the other cheek and love your enemies'. In fact they many glory in the end times and the tribulations being played out.
Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power US Christian fundamentalists are driving Bush's Middle East policy." George Monbiot Tuesday April 20, 2004 The Guardian [/b[
If you seek to understand this, the history of its development and is overall objectives and interference in world affairs this is a good link.
Christian Fundamentalism Exposed. What is Christian Fundamentalism?
This website defines "religious fundamentalism" of all kinds as political and social, not religious. Don't think for one minute these are a bunch illiterate rednecks, they aren't. Their main activists are rich, white, most are "baby-boomers, and their agenda is power and money. Their leadership is college educated and not a bunch of country bumpkins.
We are talking 30 million people in the US involved in this darkness.
[DLMURL] http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/fund.html [/DLMURL]
The current state of play in the UK
Fundamentalism is growing within Church of England and liberal Christian churches, and will become dominant
By Vexen Crabtree 2003 May 31
The church in the UK are also talking about ‘Heresy trials’ for priests that are telling the truth about the bible and Christianity.
The right of right is fascist and racist. I feel sure my socialist father is turning in his grave and Jesus cries with his head in his hands. Christian fundamentalists have developed the use of mass media advertising campaigns and "call centre" telephone contact with potential voters. Fundamentalists have focused particularly upon family values, organise against women's freedom and independence, and campaign against lesbian and gay rights.
* Racist policies have been aggressively pursued with campaigns against positive action and free cross border migration from south of the US border.
* White power music has been successful as a focus for racist and homophobic sentiments and in encouraging violent hate crime that has included bombings and shootings. White power music reflects all of these themes and they travel internationally through the sale of illegal CD's.
For more information see below
For sure it is a CULT! and you can understand why Islam act and speak the way that they do.
It is this kind of fundamentalism that is behind the Lord's Report on Complementary Medicine and the hidden agenda to bring spiritual practise under the control of the medical profession in the UK. The Lord's report said 'to weed out all the worthless cranks' this is exactly the kind of language that the Christian fundamentalists use, in fact they go one step further and state that people like me will be consumed in hell on judgement day! What they fail to remember is that the bible states the first will be last and the last will be first. So why will they be last to enter the Kingdom of Heaven here on earth ?
They do not live by the new convenant brought by Jesus the convenant of LOVE!
RE: Fundamentalism
Wow, Kim, you really went off the deep end with this post. What rights are being taken away by fundamentalists? None of them are for a Theocratic government. They just want their kids to live in a society where they are not surrounded by temptation...where a kid can grow up in a godly manner. And actually, in the United States, it is the atheists who are the ones trying to take rights away, such as reciting "under God" in the Pledge of Allegience and taking Christmas ornaments off public streets. They are trying to ban religion from public schools.
Don't group Christians with the Ku Klux Klan. First, I don't consider them Christians, but merely people full of hatred. Secondly, even if you consider them Christian fundamentalists, they make up .00001% of all Christians in the US, so they are hardly represenstative. I don't even know one Ku Klux Klan person, nor do any of my friends.
Did the fundamentalists get Bush elected? Sure. Why? Because we don't believe in taking innocent lives (abortion) and we don't believe in gay marriage. We also don't believe in porn on the internet. No one is outlawing letting gays do what they want to in their private homes, but the problem comes when they start forcing their opinions on others, which has happened. They are trying to insert their pro-gay beliefs intopublic schools, where they have no place. Keep in mind, we as parents are paying for those schools, so we should have some say in the curriculum. 60% of people in the US think marriage is between a man and a woman, and some of these people are atheists. Some are Jews, Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons...they are not all fundamentalists. The biggest mistake you are making though is assuming the fundamentalist Christian movement, or evangelical movement, is a political one. It's not. People vote because of their moral conscience, and there heart is on winning people to Christ, not winning elections. Most of them are not political people.
Hate crime is being way, way overrated. Several years ago, the Center for Disease Control did a study. In one year, four people were killed in the USA for crimes related to their sexual orientation. Four is too many, but let's face it, four people die in car accidents every second. Out of all the milllions in the US, all they could come up with was four? The truth is, there are FAR more hate crimes because of race and religion than there are because of sexual orientation. However, there is a campaign by gay leadership to make you think gays are oppressed. Why? Because then they can enact the legislation they want to.
ORIGINAL: Sacredstar
This is an old post
Christian Fundamentalists are against human rights!
Many Christian fundamentalists are no further forward then the Klu Klux Clan, the hatred and prejudice found for everyone that is not a Christian fundamentalist IS beyond belief. It was mainly due to these people that Bush got in again. Their minds and hearts are closed to love and so very hard for me to reconcile. They take bible text out of context to support their hatred and right to war with Iraq, in fact the priest that advises Bush appeared on television and stated that he would have sent in 500,000 troops instead of 125,000 to wipe out Iraq. They do not live the law of GOD 'thou shall not kill, turn the other cheek and love your enemies'. In fact they many glory in the end times and the tribulations being played out.
[link= http://christianexodus.org ]http://christianexodus.org[/link]
Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power US Christian fundamentalists are driving Bush's Middle East policy." George Monbiot Tuesday April 20, 2004 The Guardian [/b[
[link= http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1195568,00.html ]http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1195568,00.html[/link]
RE: Fundamentalism
Feel free to discuss the fundamentalist aspect of this thread (as that's what it's about) but please refrain from making political references as this is against HP Guidlines.
Thank you
Love and Reiki Hugs
RE: Fundamentalism
ORIGINAL: mcnabbmcnow
They just want their kids to live in a society where they are not surrounded by temptation...where a kid can grow up in a godly manner.
What you do not realise is that your beliefs are causing harm to your children biologically. CF children are often filled with guilt, shame and self condemnation. I have worked with enough catholics to experience this first hand.
but merely people full of hatred.
Sadly this has been my expeirence of CF's from the US.
Did the fundamentalists get Bush elected? Sure. Why? Because we don't believe in taking innocent lives (abortion) and we don't believe in gay marriage.
What right do you have to decide for others? Jesus stood for liberation, equality and freedom and it seems you and your own stand for the opposite.
We also don't believe in porn on the internet.
Nor do we.
The biggest mistake you are making though is assuming the fundamentalist Christian movement, or evangelical movement, is a political one. It's not.
Of course it is MC take off the glasses........I have now seen two pastors on UK TV who advise Bush. Sadly, Christiantiy was born out of politics and still has its roots within it. I agree with Richard Dawkings on this one what sense is there in denying contraception in Africa when there is ten million children dying of AIDS?
People vote because of their moral conscience,
A conscience to support killing and war is no conscience at all. Thy shall not kill! Those that vote for warmongers have blood on their own hands. The true Christ heart of conscience would never ever support war.....would Jesus go to war...no he would become a human shield, he would lay down his life to protect others from being harmed, he would turn the other cheek....if they took is jacket he would give them his shirt.
there heart is on winning people to Christ
Christ does not need you to do that the love of Christ is in every man and will grow at their own pace in their own time.
'Christ is rising in the heart of man, love is entering every door.' from Sacred Words
not winning elections. Most of them are not political people.
We will have to agree to disagree, these are not just my views they are the views of the British press too! Did you know that the Church of Rome was involved in laundering money for the Nazi's? Did you also know that Germany is the biggest European financial contributor to the Church? Not really surprising that there is now a German Pope who was once a Nazi. I remember after the Pope was elected and the divine responded 'it is genocide for the church'.
Love beyond measure
Kim xx
RE: Fundamentalism
Kim,
Abortion and Gay rights issues are moral issues, not contained in any one religion. If I told you that all people must be baptized and take communion, and say "Christ is Lord", that would be inflicting my religion on someone else. But I can find atheists, Protestants, Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Jehovah's Witnesses, Hindus, Mormons, etc...on BOTH sides of these issues. They are simply issues of right and wrong and should not be tied to Christian fundamentalism. How else do you explain an atheist who believes homosexuality is wrong? Alright, I have to get off politics.
I'm not Catholic, and don't believe in a works based theology. There is no reason to feel guilty, because God has forgiven me of my sins since I have asked forgiveness for them and accepted Christ's death on the cross.
Regarding war, read Romans chapter 13. God puts people in power and gives them the power "of life and death to punish wrongdoers of evil." When Jesus says "do not kill", he's talking about you are your neighbor, not about governments. Jesus also told his disciples to "take two swords." Because the world is full of sinful men and women, sometimes war is a necessary evil to save lives ultimately. In a perfect utopia, I'd be a pacifist, but to be that in today's world I think is a little nieve and short-sighted, just my opinion.
RE: Fundamentalism
Let me just correct myself there, as I didn't word it correctly. [:o] (hey we all make mistakes :D)
Discussing the connection between fundamentalism and politics is acceptable, but please can we avoid making specific references to any particular political person or party as this is against HP guidlines.
Sorry, I'll let you get back to it now. 😉
RE: Fundamentalism
ORIGINAL: mcnabbmcnow
They are simply issues of right and wrong and should not be tied to Christian fundamentalism.
That is duality and Jesus taught his disciples to move beyond the duality of right and wrong so that they could become enlightened. Duality is limitation and stops people coming into oneness with the source of all creation.
'Reality can be disturbing but to the enlightened mind it is not so' from Sacred Words
I'm not Catholic, and don't believe in a works based theology.
Well you do not follow Jesus Christ then because he constantly told his disciples to do good works. Just like he did......good works those that follow him should follow him in all his ways....So to be a true follower one should be a healer of lost souls.
There is no reason to feel guilty, because God has forgiven me of my sins since I have asked forgiveness for them and accepted Christ's death on the cross.
That is old theology there is no sin unless YOU perceive it to be so and GOD does not need to forgive you because there is no sin in Gods eyes. 'When the crucifix is removed from earth so will all the pain and suffering be removed from earth' from Sacred Words.
Regarding war, read Romans chapter 13.
I provided a whole thread on this the root of the word war is actually 'confusion and 'contention'.
God puts people in power and gives them the power "of life and death to punish wrongdoers of evil."
As St Augustine said to St Jermone the real meaning of Evil is less good so in essence there is no such thing as evil in Gods eyes because there is no sin.
When Jesus says "do not kill", he's talking about you are your neighbor, not about governments.
How blind can you be Jesus is talking about every sentient being on this planet.
Jesus also told his disciples to "take two swords."
No this is where the literal carnal mind cannot understand spiritual symbology; in ancient symbology the sword represents 'truth' and Jesus tried to teach us how to communicate from the heart.....for it is an art indeed.
In a perfect utopia, I'd be a pacifist, but to be that in today's world I think is a little nieve and short-sighted, just my opinion.
If Jesus was here today he would be the same pacifist who turned the other cheek like he was 2,000 years ago. It is very sad that CF's do not follow him and his glorious ways........ Cf's certainly are more than a little nieve and short-sighted they are indeed the same as Jesus said to the Jewish priests Blind Masters. If there are any true Christians still remaining I would say that they are Quakers, Christian Spiritualists, Christian Scientists and Gnostics.
Thank you Giles.
being love
Kim xx
RE: Fundamentalism
Dear Kim,
Thank you for putting my mind at ease about believing that healing is possible. One day I hope that you will understand the principles behind Christian healing and see that raising the dead is but the next step above the physical healing of those still "living".
I always find it interesting to see that Jesus started his healing ministry step by step. According to the gospels, he didn't start raising the dead until he had gained the insight, understanding and confidence that came through his spiritual growth and communion with God. He raised the Jairus' daughter (Matt 9, Mark 5, Luke 8 who had just died; the son of the widow woman (Luke 7) within 24 hours of death; then with Lazarus, (John 11), Jesus deliberately delayed going to him until he had been in his tomb for four days. His greatest triumph over the beliefs and so-called "laws" of matter was of course his own resurrection.
Mary Baker Eddy wrote about his raising of Lazarus:
Jesus said: "I knew that Thou hearest me always;" and he raised Lazarus from the dead, stilled the tempest, healed the sick, walked on the water. There is divine authority for believing in the superiority of spiritual power over material resistance.
A miracle fulfils God's law, but does not violate that law. This fact at present seems more mysterious than the miracle itself. (Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures p 134)
Jesus said of Lazarus: "Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep." Jesus restored Lazarus by the understanding that Lazarus had never died, not by an admission that his body had died and then lived again. Had Jesus believed that Lazarus had lived or died in his body, the Master would have stood on the same plane of belief as those who buried the body, and he could not have resuscitated it.
When you can waken yourself or others out of the belief that all must die, you can then exercise Jesus' spiritual power to reproduce the presence of those who have thought they died,--but not otherwise. (Science and Health p. 75)
I found a very special healing among my files which I will copy out:
The writer had, as a child, eaten some peaches from a rusty can and had developed ptomaine poisoning. After three weeks of medical treatment, she had grown much worse and the doctors tried to prepare her parents for death. As a last resort, a Christian Science practitioner was called. After about half an hour of prayer beside the moaning child, the little girl sat up and asked for something to eat, went back to sleep after eating some tiny sandwiches, and the next morning was up playing with her dolls. After that experience, God became the family's physician.
Years later, when her second son was only three or four months old, he had been unusually quiet all day and then:
"That night, several hours after I retired, I was wakened by a strange sound from the baby. I dashed across the room to his crib, bumping the bed of our older son in the process. He started to cry, so my husband turned on the light and went to comfort him. As I reached over to pick up the baby, I realized that he had stopped breathing. My fear was overwhelming - so much so that when my husband asked if the baby was all right, in order not to frighten him, I said yes. I refused to voice - even to myself - the great fear that gripped me. I carried the little one to the bed and sat cross-legged with the covers over both of us."
She goes on to tell how several passages from the Bible and the writing of Mary Baker Eddy came to her thought, like: " No evidence before the material senses can close my eyes to the scientific proof that God, good, is supreme." (Miscellaneous Writings p. 277) She found the first Commandment "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Exodus 20:3) an effective aid and also the "scientific statement of being" * from Science and Health, which supported her sincere desire to lean fully on God - especially the sentence " All is infinite Mind and its infinite manif
RE: Fundamentalism
Yes Judy welcome back and hope that you had a good time.
Well has he said to me 'hold my hand, trust me you can walk on water' what he is talking about is waliking above the sea of emotion in self mastery.
The divine have shown me that so much of the bible is symbolic and not literal.
Divine Love
RE: Fundamentalism
I see you have changed your identity yet again Kim!! [&:]
I wish you'd warn us as it's very confusing to us mere mortals you know! I'm just trying to remember what you have been - there was your full name, then Beinglove, Sacredstar and now Divine Love and I'm sure there have been others I've forgotten. were you ever Enlightnment, or was that someone else?
Love and peace,
Judy
RE: Fundamentalism
Dear Judy
Well I couldn't access my account wrote various emails to mike and no response. So had no choice, very clear divine intervention as we raise our consciousness and frequency so does everything else. I never change forum name through choice but due to the synchroncity of this great cosmos and for sure God works in mysterious ways; intent on ensuring that I leave all of the past behind now that I have fully moved through the eye of the needle. Celebrations indeed! A lot of water has gone under the bridge since this particular forum began in September 2003 unification is the key and yes I do feel unified in more ways than one!
I think scientists call it the 'unifed field'. Those that know about science will understand...;) what has been accomplished.
I came into post this from an ex-fundamentalist I found his view and reasons interesting.
"At the risk of sounding extremely optimisitic, it is my opinion that christian fundamentalism is about to face it's 'Alamo" in the not to distant future. It is my humble opinion that the discovery of the Nag Hammadi "library" in 1948 will prove to be THE watershed event that will unravel the whole ball of yarn. For the first time the 'heritics' have a voice that will echo louder than the endless drivel of lies and revisionism of the fouth century 'historian' Eusbias. The novel and soon upcoming film 'The DiViance Code' will alert the American sheeple to the 'gnosis' of the Nag Hammadi's existence. Regardless of the novel's fictional 'baggage' about grails, bloodlines and other assorted nonsense. I believe it will deliever to the public the diamond in the rough it needs; that the first two centuries of christianity were much different then what 'conventional wisdom' (fourth century 'truth') has reported as 'fact'. Don't forget that the money follows the people's intrest. No grail, no bloodline, no mystery, the truth is it never happened.
For those of you who feel this kind of shift in public opinion is impossible, I once was a fundamentalist christian of the 'first order' and I changed my mind when presented with the facts of archeology, biology, honest biblical scholarship, geology, but most of all when I quit reading the bible in a vaccum. I was 34 years old when I changed my mind. It can happen. Chin-up peolple there is hope yet."
Divine Love