Extreme Pilgrim - BBC2

Just watched the third episode on BBC iPlayer (don't have a pesky telly thank goodness, but get to watch some tv for free! hehe!).

I thought out of the series that, in this episode, Peter really connected with himself... managed to find himself. Perhaps, and this is only speculation, it was because he was looking at his the belief system/concept of 'god'/(however you wish to descibe it), or at least one that is close to one that he practices, rather than exploring one that is different.

He seemed to be able to commit to the period of being alone easier than he had previously... maybe he was more prepared because of the earlier attempts... maybe it was because it was his own path.

I really enjoyed this series, even if I didn't agree with some points of it (e.g. drug-taking for spiritual enlightenment...)

Lisa x

Hi ya

Principled: There was Nestle bottle of water in the Egyptian cave as well. prehaps we can never get away from the modern world!

Cheers

Reiki Pixie

Hi Reiki Pixie,

Yeah, I saw that too, but in the middle of a desert region, it doesn't bother me (though the beautiful monastery below must have had a spring for that lush garden). The Chinese mountain was lush and green and must have had springs or streams. Oh well.... One thought I had though was that the water bottles might have been specially ordered for the BBC crew! 😉

Vegan Soul - I'm sure you're right, that while it was very different from his own Anglican Christianity, it was still Christianity and something he could relate to more.

and everybody - I am still thinking about why I appear to come across as being critical of monasteries.... I'm actually not critical - everyone has the absolute right to live their lives as they wish to and if they are searching for enlightenment and find that living a monastic life is what appeals, then good for them if they find it and can keep it. But there is something about their choice that disturbs me from a religious viewpoint and I've been really thinking about this asking myself why.

I think that I'm really looking at it from a Christian viewpoint -and after all, here we had an Anglican vicar trying to find God/himself etc by these pilgrimages and by trying out the life of fellow holy men from three very different and yet similar belief systems.

I've been thinking about it a lot and asking myself what is it that bothers me about someone who cuts himself off from the world to find God. I've realised what it is - I'm actually taking Jesus as my role model. He desperately needed his mountain top experiences. It says often in the NT that he took himself away from the crowds and went up into a mountain to pray all night. BUT he didn't stay there! It was the mountain-top experience that re-charged his spiritual batteries and he always came back down from his deep communion with God, refreshed, strengthened and then what did he do - he went straight back to the crowds of people to teach them, comfort them, heal them, to meet their human needs (not just his own spiritual ones.)

It was those last two lines of the poem I quoted above which gave me the clue:

We go to meet our brother's need,
And find our home in every place.

But then, there have been mystics and sages throughout the centuries who have lived apart from society and devoted their lives to God - the Venerable Bede in this country was just one of them, Julian of Norwich another who springs to mind ...

Father Lazarus said that what he was doing was for the world and I really respect and understand that. I have an example closer to home.

Mary Baker Eddy, in 1866, after the healing which she called her “falling apple” cut herself off from society for three years to search the Scriptures, to pray and to seek answers as to how she had been healed, then she worked tirelessly, healing, teaching, lecturing, writing, founded a church, a publishing society, a metaphysical college all with the aim of showing people how they could find a way out of the limitations and suffering of our mortal existence.

However, in 1889, aged about 70, she again turned away from her very public life and for the next 20 years tried to find seclusion to pray for the world and her young metaphysical movement. She wrote:

I shall be with you personally very seldom. I have a work to do that, in the words of our Master, "ye know not of." From the interior of Africa to the utmost parts of the earth, the sick and the heavenly homesick or hungry hearts are calling on me for help, and I am helping them. (Miscellany p 147)

She therefore remains unseen at her post, seeking no self-aggrandizement but praying, watching, and working for the redemption of mankind. (Science and Health 464)

The eternal and infinite, already brought to your earnest consideration, so grow upon my vision that I cannot feel justified in turning aside for one hour from contemplation of them and of the faith unfeigned. When the verities of being seem to you as to me,--as they must some time,--you will understand the necessity for my seclusion, and its fulfilment of divine order. "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord." (Miscellaneous Writings p 136)

So I think I’ve answered my own illogical question!

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi Judy,

On monasteries. I'd challenge anyone to say they haven't, if on a spiritual path, felt like going to one, or a nunnery of some faith, at least once. You sum it all up: "He didn't stay there!" [Jesus in the desert or on a mountain.] But I can't judge other peoples' needs, and there have been short times when I've felt that way, so I just went and did it. Last year, maybe a total of 5 weeks. Obviously I didn't stay there. But if people find the need, I suppose we should support what they feel they need to do? So long as it is practical.

V

Hi Judy
I see you finally answered your own question before I could do it for you! LOL
What I had been going to say to your obvious - would 'antipathy' be too strong a word? - to monasteries was that I don't believe that those individuals who are called to a cloistered life are led thus in order that they may find God, but rather they retire from the world in the belief that by adding to the deep pool of prayer which emanates from such places they are doing their bit to alleviate the suffering of the world. (Phew - sorry for such a long sentence.) I've heard you say many times that you have prayed - and that your prayer had potency and was heard and answered, whether by healing or something else. So it isn't hard to believe that prayer offered selflessly and endlessly by sometimes hermit monks can only benefit all mankind. This is my belief - and I disagree with Venetian that there is any kind of radius within which the prayer is effective. I think that there is no limit on the power of prayer.
(I am reminded of a teaching given by a young holy woman called Radha, who lives in Tiruvannamalai in South India. The joy of visiting her is that she speaks perfect English and is disposed to answer questions. So one afternoon a small group of seekers, myself included, were asking her how we should conduct ourselves in our search for God. Should we meditate? we asked. 'If you like,' she said 'but it's not necessary'. 'Should we go to the temple?' 'If you like but you don't have to.' 'Should we go on retreat?' To everything we suggested we should do she displayed disinterest. 'It won't hasten your journey' was her implication. 'When the fruit is ripe it will fall from the tree' was one of her favourite remarks. Then I said to her 'What about prayer, Ma? Should we pray?' expecting that she would say no to this too. Instead she smiled. 'Ah yes, you should pray. Prayer is very necessary.' Point taken.

xxxx

I see you finally answered your own question before I could do it for you! LOL
What I had been going to say to your obvious - would 'antipathy' be too strong a word? - to monasteries was that I don't believe that those individuals who are called to a cloistered life are led thus in order that they may find God, but rather they retire from the world in the belief that by adding to the deep pool of prayer which emanates from such places they are doing their bit to alleviate the suffering of the world.

Well, I agree! I've spent years of my life doing it partially, but also sometimes keeping a 9-5 job while living in a monastic/nunnery community, myself. I did write at the end of my post, but trying to down-play it, that the prayers and lives of spiritual people can emanate out across the entire universe. I do however belive that we benefit most those closest to us - within 100 yards, or 50 miles ... but it is moot. 🙂

But I also understand the need to "come back out" to serve the world, as Jesus and Gautama did. Those who remain life-long within a spiritual community with little contact with the world IMHO must have some personal issues to address. Yet, sometimes, it may not be the best way to address them, as the world is a great teacher.

V

Those who remain life-long within a spiritual community with little contact with the world IMHO must have some personal issues to address.

If instead you'd said "must have some personal spiritual issues to address" I would agree with you, and I think a convent or a monastery would be a very good place in which to address them. The monks and nuns of my acquaintance I admire very greatly.

That's what I meant, yes. In fact most 'issues' are spiritual in some way.

The monastery I have most experience of provides a refuge from the worldly distractions. Staying there for me has been like drawing water from a well when parched. It's like the calm eye of the storm, a real umbrella of divinity.

The example set by the monks and nuns there is inspiring, and the spiritual strength they gain through their life of devotion is very obvious.

Venetian, Sunanda and Barafundle,

Thank you all for deep and insightful posts! I think this has been a good thread in as much as Peter's rather unusual "journey" has made us all think and question.

In many ways, I can see that it is actually much harder trying to live a spiritual life at one with God out "in the world" as it was rather than cloistered in a community of fellow believers. Well, if these monasteries etc provide a haven and a spiritual batter-recharging centres for those of us who need it, what wonderful places they are and how grateful we should be for them!

Watching those other television series on the monastery and the convent also was an eye-opener and yes, the purity and goodness of the holy men and women certainly shone out. As Barafundle says:

Originally posted by Barafundle:

The monastery I have most experience of provides a refuge from the worldly distractions. Staying there for me has been like drawing water from a well when parched. It's like the calm eye of the storm, a real umbrella of divinity.

The example set by the monks and nuns there is inspiring, and the spiritual strength they gain through their life of devotion is very obvious.

...I don't believe that those individuals who are called to a cloistered life are led thus in order that they may find God, but rather they retire from the world in the belief that by adding to the deep pool of prayer which emanates from such places they are doing their bit to alleviate the suffering of the world.

Thanks Sunanda, that's beautiful and I am more than comfortable with that motivation!

I've heard you say many times that you have prayed - and that your prayer had potency and was heard and answered, whether by healing or something else. So it isn't hard to believe that prayer offered selflessly and endlessly by sometimes hermit monks can only benefit all mankind. This is my belief - and I disagree with Venetian that there is any kind of radius within which the prayer is effective. I think that there is no limit on the power of prayer.

I have heard from many many Christian Science practitioners, including my own Teacher, that when they have been praying for a certain part of the world - for instance, Kenya right now, that as they have finished their specific prayer, so the phone has rung and the next two or three people who had never contacted them before, but who lived in that particular place would be on the other end of the phone.

A friend of mine in Singapore where I grew up, had an abcess on her tooth. She relied completely on spiritual laws for healing as I do, knowing herself as a perfect spiritual idea of God, rather than as a suffering matter-based body; but this time, the situation had not been healed through her prayers. She sent a telegram to London to a Christian Science practitioner (this was in the days before international telephone calls or e-mails), asking for help through prayer.

A few hours later, these words from Science and Health came into her thought. "A spiritual idea has not a single element of error, and this truth removes properly whatever is offensive." (S&H 463) Instantly, all pain and swelling just disappeared and she was completely free.

I think it was the next day that she received a telegram back from the practitioner in reply and they contained the citation number to the very same sentence that had come to her thought and when she checked the time the telegram was sent, it was the exact same time that she had her healing.

Another awesome healing I read about was on the set of a film starring Steve McQueen, set in Hong Kong. This stuntman was bitten by a viper as he prepared to have a lunchtime nap. He didn't realise what it was and thought nothing of it and went to sleep. When he was woken by the noon cannon, he realised it was serious. He was barely conscious, in great pain and very swollen.

The medical team on the set wanted to rush him to hospital to have his arm cut off, but he managed to get a taxi to his hotel, ask them to put him through to his practitioner back in the US, (the operator said it was taking up to 3 days to put calls through) The call came through immediately, but he just mumbled and then passed out. Well, the practitioner had to know what she was dealing with so opened her Bible "at random" to Paul's healing of the viper bite (Acts 28)

By the time the film crew burst into his room, he was peacefully asleep on his bed and so they left him and he was absolutley fine, all swelling and discolouration and organ shut-down gone.

The Truth is without national, international or even universal boundaries! The divine Mind is instant - it is not limited by time or space.

Love ane peace,

Judy

Hi ya Principled

I'm very interested in your comment about, quote: The divine Mind is instant - it is not limited by time or space.

I think too often we are limited by our perception of time and space, and prehaps is a good excuse at times to withdraw from the "world", to understand our delusions or illusions, and to be more centred and clearer in thought.

I hope that matey on the Extreme Pligrim programme was able to touch upon this. It has certainly inspired me to take a deeper view of life, especially the spiritual side.

Best Wishes

Reiki Pixie

To Judy and all,

I don't know if I'm repeating what I've already posted on this thread, but I feel that on a 'spiritual path' everybody does what they feel is best for them. (Yes, some logically must make bad choices, but that's another topic.) Personally I've tended to oscillate or change depending upon what was needed and what was available. I've only very, very limited experience of the monastic life wherein nothing was perceptively being done 'to help others' - just a few weeks, as a trial and to experience places. The three ways of living I'm most used to are (1) spiritual communities dedicated to helping the world - and if you find a good one it's a great way to live; (2) spiritual comunities of a small size where you all live together but just about everyone also goes out to work in the city, and also trying to help the world - these are great, and balanced, because you do have to get out there and spend eight hours in mid-week with 'normal' people, but it is demanding time-wise, and you hardly get a moment free;

(3) Then of course there's trying to be like all the above, yet doing it 'outside' in the world, having to deal with either mortgages or rent, and come evening you are either a single person or a couple often with no other face-to-face spiritual contact for that day. Now, this is hard! I mean, it can be easy enough as you might cop out and watch TV soaps all evening I guess. But to live "out in the world" entirely and to get things done all the same as with (1) and (2) - believe me, I've swopped around from all three situations quite a bit and (3) is hard. Yet I think it has its own merits: if you can keep yourself dedicated to a cause, without anyone around you daily to keep you on track, it's very strength-building. As I wouldn't put the more monastic ways down whatsoever, but frankly it does make things easier. I have quite literally seen hundreds of peoples' reactions and how their lives went when their chosen spiritual community ended or shrank or wasn't there for any reason. It can be very note-worthy to see, as most people I've known who spent many years in a place like that which came to an end found that that they couldn't handle the so-called real world. The were, IMHO a bit unbalanced. Some came across as nut-cases.

So in all I'm not "for" living in spiritual communities for years upon years, without working out in normal jobs at least. I think the reality-check of facing the world is good tester.

V

Well said, both of you!

I just wanted to quickly say that for me, the best way (but, yes it is hard) is to be IN the world, but not OF the world!

Love and peace,

Judy

Well said, both of you!

I just wanted to quickly say that for me, the best way (but, yes it is hard) is to be IN the world, but not OF the world!

Love and peace,

Judy

It's a great way to be and to live one's life according to. LOL, but as someone I esteem highly once said of being born to this life, and married, children, etc., and worldly problems, "I landed with a bump!"

V 🙂