To ace88: "the prayer of faith shall save the sick"

Dear Ace,

I noticed your posts about your son Derek (and also your brother-in-law’s son) in the “Autism in my family” thread. Well, I just felt moved to write to you and I hope you will read this in the spirit in which it has been written - from one Christian to another, written with love.

You are a Christian Ace, so must believe in (and have experienced) the power of prayer and I’m quite sure that you and your family are praying for Derek.

The angel Gabriel said to Mary "For with God nothing shall be impossible.” Luke 1:37

James 5:14-16
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up;…... The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

So what is effectual prayer?

Well, surely no one has known more about effective prayer than our Master, Jesus Christ? Especially in the healing of Jairus’ daughter and Lazarus, it is clear to me that he understood that the perfect spiritual reality of God (the Kingdom of Heaven) is intact, whole, perfect now, which is why he was able to say in each case, in direct contradiction to what the material senses were saying, that they were not dead, only sleeping, and how, despite the mocking of the onlookers, he was able to raise them to life (and of course, to go on to raise himself from the grave).

Jesus gave us the Lord’s Prayer, which covers all human needs and surely there is also a hint of how to pray here:

I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. Mark 11:24&25

So, believe (know) that Derek, as the beloved child of God, is already whole! How could you believe that he has health and wholeness if you also believe at the same time that he has behaviour problems, disability or disease?

Jesus also said:

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:32

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48

Surely here, he is referring back to the spiritual account of creation in the first book of Genesis where man is made in the image of God? Could the image of God include autism?

Genesis 1: 26-28, 31; Gen 2:1

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion …..

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

My next door neighbour used to be verger at her former church and was also involved with its prayer group. Whenever something came up that she felt overwhelmed with, she would come to me and ask me to also pray. One day she told me about a teenage boy who was in hospital and all hope was gone. He had some terrible condition that had caused his organs to come away from the wall of his body. She asked me to pray that God’s will be done so he would have a quick death. Well, I replied that I was always happy to pray for God’s will to be done, but that God was Life itself and that Life’s will surely could only be for life, not death?

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John1:3&4

I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. John10:10

I urged my friend to go back to her prayer group and to start praying the prayer of affirmation – the prayer of life, not death. I reminded her of the spiritual account of creation in Genesis 1 where man is made in the image and likeness of God and given dominion. Well, the result of the change of direction of the prayer group was a complete healing within just a few weeks. The doctors could not understand it and pronounced it a miracle.

Yet the Lord will command his lovingkindness in the daytime, and in the night his song shall be with me, and my prayer unto the God of my life. Ps 42:8

Here are three healings of children on that I hope you will read to encourage you in your prayer. The first is of a little girl who had extreme behaviour problems. The family live in India and the doctor did not give a name to the condition, but it sounds to me like it could have been something similar to what you have been told your little boy has.

[url]We began to see that our daughter was already complete[/url]

The other two, I include for you to see HOW they prayed. I especially love the third, where a little boy had been born deformed as a result of a difficult birth and was never expected to be able to walk, stand straight, or live a normal life. What a cruel sentence! How could a God who is Love create such suffering or wish His beloved children to suffer like that? If it was God’s will for us to suffer, be ill, to be disabled, then why did he send His Son to heal these conditions and to save mankind from sin?

[url]Child’s hydrocephalus—healed[/url]

[url]Christmas—its promise and fulfillment[/url]

We all have a right to protest at anything that is unlike perfect God!

God bless you and your family, Ace!

Love and peace,

Judy

Judy, thanks so much for thinking of me and my family. My son's autism has been challenging for our family, but he is making progress. He used to always talk about events in the past, but now he talks more in the present about what is happening right now. His public violent temper tantrums (which were terrible at one point to the point where we could barely go out in public) seem to be dying down. He still cannot relate well, however, to kids his age or really have social conversations well. His attention span is not real good. We've put him on a special diet, done exercises with him, and now we are getting a hyperbaric chamber, which seems to help kids with autism. I have a lot of hope, but whatever God's will is, is fine with me.

As a Christian, I feel that I have neglected my responsibilty to pray enough. And this just came up in a Bible study the other night. When we pray, do we really believe God will answer our prayer? I sometimes doubt that I am fervent enough in my prayers. We rely too much on ourselves to get things done, but it is so much more peaceful when we put things in God's hands. While having an autistic son is tough, it has taught me a great many lessons. There are kids and parents who have situations much worse than myself. I am thankful to God for Derek and what he brings to our family. Thanks again for your kind words.

Hi Ace,

I'm so glad to hear of Derek's progress and yes, we do need to be so grateful for the challenges that come our way for they force us to grow! (Have you ever read that brilliant book "From Prison to Praise" - I think it was by Mervyn Carruthers (sp.) I'm sure that Derek has brought a very special dimension and blessing to your family.

I have a lot of hope, but whatever God's will is, is fine with me.

I truly believe Ace that God's will for His beloved children is only for good, for blessing.

As a Christian, I feel that I have neglected my responsibilty to pray enough. And this just came up in a Bible study the other night. When we pray, do we really believe God will answer our prayer? I sometimes doubt that I am fervent enough in my prayers.

Hey, don't beat yourself up! Your are doing fine! God loves you unconditionally and you're not doing this on your own! 🙂

We rely too much on ourselves to get things done, but it is so much more peaceful when we put things in God's hands.

Yup, been there, done that got the T-shirt! :p

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi both
Sorry for butting in like this but this is relevant to me at this time: I'm writing an academic essay on healing for my degree course.

In it I have to define healing. There's a lot of questions coming up for me now: what are we asking for when we pray for healing? What does this say about our attitudes to our situation and our condition? What do we expect to happen, and how much is this expectation reflected in the outcome of the situation? Where does the healing come from?

As you can see this discussion is giving me more cause for thought on these issues, and I am glad for the Christian Science viewpoint, Principled, as I can see I have to include this in the essay as an example of faith healing. Ace, you may wish to consider the questions I'm asking in relation to your own situation: and I'm constantly reminded of the phrase "Be careful what you wish for"!

May your God go with you, as Dave Allen used to say.

Hi Chris, welcome! 🙂

What an interesting project! I have written a thread on Healing through the Christ Consciousness you might find helpful:

You might also like to have a look at Norbu’s thread on Bruce Lipton’s book (which also covers many of those topics)

In it I have to define healing. There's a lot of questions coming up for me now: what are we asking for when we pray for healing? What does this say about our attitudes to our situation and our condition? What do we expect to happen, and how much is this expectation reflected in the outcome of the situation? Where does the healing come from?

From the Christian Science perspective, healing is the revealing of the perfection and wholeness of spiritual reality - the Kingdom of Heaven that Jesus proclaimed and demonstrated (and which John saw in Rev 21) that already exists right where the material senses are screaming the opposite.

what are we asking for when we pray for healing?

Here are some answers from Mary Baker Eddy:
[COLOR="Blue"]
Prayer cannot change the Science of being, but it tends to bring us into harmony with it. (Science and Health 2)

True prayer is not asking God for love; it is learning to love, and to include all mankind in one affection. Prayer is the utilization of the love wherewith He loves us. Prayer begets an awakened desire to be and do good. It makes new and scientific discoveries of God, of His goodness and power. It shows us more clearly than we saw before, what we already have and are; and most of all, it shows us what God is. (No & Yes 39)

Ages ago, I started a thread on Effective Prayer, but never had time to complete all the posts that were shortened when the software was changed. One of these days I’ll get round to re-writing it all. This healing is at the beginning and I include it as it's been deeply looked at:

In the 1950’s two similar incidents happened with two very different results:

1) A workman at a Cadillac plant fell into a relatively dilute three foot deep cyanide tank, was promptly lifted out and sprayed continuously with a hose while his clothes were removed, then washed thoroughly until his death in about ten minutes. There was no break in this man’s skin.

2) Another man, Dr Lyons, (a chemist with a long career in technology and academics and author of numerous papers on electrodeposition and a contributor to technical publications) was working preparing a compound, that he had to start with potassium cyanide. This was melted over a powerful burner. He had been stirring it and had placed the rod on the side of the pan when he inadvertently picked it up at the wrong end, severely burning his hand. The wound, which extended across the right palm, exposed the tendons. There appeared to be several masses of white crystals in the fluids and burned tissues. He washed his hand in water and wrapped it in a towel, and was able to go ahead and complete the preparation. Three days later, there was barely a scar and within a week all effects had disappeared. An expert on cyanide poisoning told Dr Lyons that such an experience would ordinarily prove fatal in a few minutes.

So what made the difference in the outcome of the two experiences? Effective prayer, based on eternal, repeatable divine law.

Here is an excerpt from his account in 1955 on a TV programme recorded as part of the series "How Christian Science Heals".[COLOR="DarkGreen"]

“I was working preparing a compound and I had to start with potassium cyanide…. To start the work I melted the potassium cyanide in an iron dish over a powerful burner. I set the iron stirring rod on the edge of the dish and turned away briefly. When I reached for the iron rod again I picked it up by the hot end. I dropped it immediately, but not before my hand was severely burned and I could see crystals of the poison dislodged from the rod in the wound.” "… I was not frightened of poisoning for I was conscious of the presence of an infinite Life, God, overruling the picture of accident and possible death. I washed my hand in water and wrapped it in a towel, and I was able to go ahead and complete the preparation. Within three days scarcely a scar remained and in less than a week all effects had disappeared. Later I talked to an expert on cyanide poisoning and he told me that such an experience would ordinarily prove fatal in a few minutes."

After this had been viewed on television, a woman wrote to Dr Lyons saying that she had watched the programme with her lodger who was a chemical engineer who stated that this whole thing was impossible and was obviously fraudulent. The critic himself also wrote stating that Dr Lyons was doing a dis-service to the chemistry profession. He pointed out that many chemists handle dangerous and deadly poisons and do not suffer from them if handled intelligently. He accused Dr Lyons of not being able to determine the amount of cyanide absorbed into his system at the time of the accident and felt he was hoodwinking members of the public who did not know all the facts.

Dr Lyons reply to him is printed, which is even more interesting than the original testimony. He stated all his degrees and professional qualifications and background. He gave a detailed account of the accident, saying:

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]"I was preparing potassium cyanide in order to carry out the Wohler synthesis or urea. The wound, which extended across the right palm, exposed the tendons. There appeared to be several masses of white crystals in the fluids and burned tissues, but naturally I did not take time for an extended inspection."

He went on to give five possible explanations for his survival, but showing the impossibility of the first four proposals:

1) That the material was not potassium cyanide – he then gave technical data which proved that it was.

2) The shock and pain made him imagine crystals in the wound – again he said he was surprisingly calm and as the stirring rod was heavily coated in crystals, it seemed virtually inconceivable that some were not dislodged.

3) The amount of cyanide absorbed was below the lethal amount – but he said this was virtually impossible as the lethal level is so small and besides he did not have any symptoms expected even with a lower dose.

4) The cyanide was washed out of the wound without being absorbed. He then described how a workman at the Cadillac plant fell into a relatively dilute three foot deep cyanide tank, was promptly lifted out and sprayed continuously with a hose while his clothes were removed, then washed thoroughly until his death in about ten minutes. There was no break in this man’s skin.

5) His fifth proposition was that cyanide was absorbed but was rendered harmless by the higher law of life.

He writes: [COLOR="DarkGreen"]"The existence of a higher law, which can save life and relieve suffering in even the most hopeless circumstances, is so important that I am constrained to bring my experience to public notice. ………. The exceedingly stringent demands made by Christian Science frequently lead me to examine and re-examine my reasons for accepting it, one of which is the experience recounted, but each time I have been forced to recognize that here is the science of sciences, the rational explanation of Jesus’ healings, the answer to every need of humanity. I feel my protection was in direct fulfilment of Jesus’ promise, "If they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them."

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi Chris....
Just wondering how you are getting on with this....

In it I have to define healing. There's a lot of questions coming up for me now: what are we asking for when we pray for healing? What does this say about our attitudes to our situation and our condition? What do we expect to happen, and how much is this expectation reflected in the outcome of the situation? Where does the healing come from?

It is just I think would make a wonderful new thread?

Hi Chris....
Just wondering how you are getting on with this....

It is just I think would make a wonderful new thread?

I've now opened one in the Spiritual Healing forum entitled "Healing and Philosophy" if you'd like to join me there!