On The Non-Reality of Satan aka Lucifer

Lucifer was actually a pagan god in Italy and consort of Diana, father of Aradia and "the light bearer" (which the name actually means), also a Roman astrological term for Venus.

The name Satan is actually a derivative of Set from the Egyptian pantheon.

Dualism is a relatively modern concept which christianity took from the Persians. Of course, basing the "evil" or "dark" side of dualism on Pagan Gods is very effective when attempting to convert the masses.

Of course, basing the "evil" or "dark" side of dualism on Pagan Gods is very effective when attempting to convert the masses.

Satan also, in the popular imagination, takes the form of the Greek god Pan.

Lucifer was actually a pagan god in Italy and consort of Diana, father of Aradia and "the light bearer" (which the name actually means), also a Roman astrological term for Venus.

The name Satan is actually a derivative of Set from the Egyptian pantheon.

I don't read Hebrew (O.T.) or Greek (N.T.), but the article is saying that these words, translated as such in English versions of the Bible, aren't there at all in the original languages, if I follow.

So the worthwhile point apears to be that many Christians believe in the reality of a being, which they've created as a myth and more-or-less inserted into the Bible themselves e.g. 'Lucifer' actually in the Hebrew version being a Babylonian king, not 'Lucifer' and not a fallen angel or dweller-in-hell.

V

Hi V,

Interesting bit and it makes sense as far as the one reference to Lucifer is concerned. However, there are 55 references to Satan, so that explains why the fear of and belief in its existence is so strong:

I Chron 21:01 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number
Job 1:06 present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
Job 1:07 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou?
Job 1:07 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in
Job 1:08 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job,
Job 1:09 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy
Job 1:12 So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
Job 2:01 and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.
Job 2:02 And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou?
Job 2:02 And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the
Job 2:03 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job,
Job 2:04 And Satan answered the Lord, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a
Job 2:06 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save
Job 2:07 ¶So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job
Ps 109:06 thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Zech 3:01 of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Zech 3:02 And the Lord said unto Satan, The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan; even the
Zech 3:02 ''
Matt 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written,
Matt 12:26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall
Matt 12:26 ''
Matt 16:23 unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me:
Mark 1:13 forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts;
Mark 3:23 and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
Mark 3:23 ''
Mark 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand,
Mark 4:15 the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately,
Mark 8:33 he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou
Luke 4:08 Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship
Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Luke 11:18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand?
Luke 13:16 daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years,
Luke 22:03 ¶Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number
Luke 22:31 Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may
John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him.
Acts 5:03 why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost,
Acts 26:18 them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God,
Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.
I Cor 5:05 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
I Cor 7:05 come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
II Cor 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of
II Cor 11:14 no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
II Cor 12:07 the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above
I Thess 2:18 come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
II Thess 2:09 whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs
I Tim 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan,
I Tim 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.
Rev 2:09 which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Rev 2:13 my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Rev 2:24 and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak;
Rev 3:09 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they
Rev 12:09 called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:
Rev 20:02 which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:07 thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Jesus called Satan a liar - that's how we see it in Christian Science - as simply the denial of the truth - not a personal devil! Mary Baker Eddy writes:

We cannot bring out the practical proof of Christianity, which Jesus required, while error seems as potent and real to us as Truth, and while we make a personal devil and an anthropomorphic God our starting-points,--especially if we consider Satan as a being coequal in power with Deity, if not superior to Him. Because such starting-points are neither spiritual nor scientific, they cannot work out the Spirit-rule of Christian healing, which proves the nothingness of error, discord, by demonstrating the all-inclusiveness of harmonious Truth. (Science and Health p 351)

ADVERSARY. An adversary is one who opposes, denies, disputes, not one who constructs and sustains reality and Truth. Jesus said of the devil, "He was a murderer from the beginning, . . . he is a liar and the father of it." This view of Satan is confirmed by the name often conferred upon him in Scripture, the "adversary." (S&H 581)

Jesus declared that the devil was "a liar, and the father of it." A lie is negation,--alias nothing, or the opposite of something. (No & Yes 32)

And the only way it should be acknowledged are in his words "Get thee behind me, Satan!"

Love and peace,

Judy

I was told many years ago that Satan was within us all and that we all basically have a Jeckle and Hyde personality (schizophrenia).
Hence the statement “Get thee behind me Satan”, which basically means that we are shutting down our satanistic thoughts.

And within the 55 references to Satan listed by Principled you can easily adapt them to that concept.

Hi Healistic,

Yes, that is the orthodox Christian belief about evil, which stems from identifying yourself with the Genesis 2 material creation – Adam and Eve and fallen man! :007:

The trouble with that one, is that it keeps you in that mind-set, of duality, as being outside of all good. :012:

I would always prefer to see evil as a hypnotic suggestion, a lie, a denial of the truth of the Genesis 1 spiritual creation, man “made in the image and likeness of God” and seen as “very good”. :FIFangel:

Note evil’s description in Rev 12:09 “…called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world” :035:

Have you seen The Matrix? I see it a bit like that. I found these two articles concerning Satan on

[url]Nothing to fear[/url]

[url] 'My redeemer liveth'[/url] and this one is about the Job allegory.

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi Healistic,

Have you seen The Matrix? I see it a bit like that. I found these two articles concerning Satan on
Love and peace,

Judy

Very interesting, Mary Baker Eddy makes some very good points thank you.

I have found myself drawn to her writings since I have been on HP and can begin to see some logic in some of what she says. I particularly like the following:

The evil is aggressive because it pushes, assaults, and attacks. It’s mental because the aggression takes place within thought. And it’s suggestion because it’s something that’s put into thought.

Perhaps what I should have said is that it is the love and our belief within us that destroys our satanistic thoughts.

I agree with Healistic in that I've always thought of 'Satan' as one told to 'get thee behind me' is a reference to the lower part of ourselves. I still do think that way about it ..... except that I also agree with you, Judy, 🙂 in that I don't see any human's reality as being half-white / half-dark as in Jeckyll and Hyde. That gives too much reality to the unreality of the Hyde part, which can simply be dissipated and never was meant to be IMHO.

I just came across the link that I began with, in my first post here, and didn't take the time to look or think more deeply. I already see the article as being much too simplistic. Even while reading it, I was thinking, 'Hang on, though. What exactly do all the many references to Satan, not Lucifer, mean? They aren't about a Babylonian king.'

Wikipedia is decent on its Satan entry, and includes:

'Satan' is שָׂטָן Satan in Standard Hebrew, Śāṭān in Tiberian Hebrew, סטנא Saṭänä in Aramaic, Σατανάς Satanás in Koine Greek, اهریمن Satanás in Persian, شيطان Šayṭān in Arabic, ሳይጣን Sāyṭān in Ge'ez, Şeytan in Turkish, and Shaitan शैतान in Hindi.

There's also a reminder there that the Book of Enoch, which really is about fallen angels, has one called Satanael.

Further, 'Satan' can be used to refer to any evil spirit, and in Islam could sometimes refer to a jinn. Now, a lot of people have encountered such things - even so down-to-earth a person as ... I think it was Ranulph Fiennes, and if not then an SAS man who lived a similar adventurous life - has referred to his Arab troops being prey to a jinn one night on a gloomy and strange hill, the jinn seeming to jump from one soldier's body to another.

Oops, so my whole thread-title somewhat turns around upon me, and there are some forms of reality behind the name. 😮

V

When you start to clear karma, very often you are clearing karma with Lucifer and many other 'fallen angelics'
(Budharas, Wesadaks, Uriel, Gabriel etc etc.)
As they have been the Original Karmic Perpetrators on this planet.

Many people channel Lucifer today, this being is very real - and he is still lying and deceiving those he channels.
(and he will not call himself Lucifer either, he will give himself quite another persona to these people ... basically what they want him to be)

There is a 'Satain' family - the Annanuki .. the greek gods. A race of people created by the 'fallen angelics' to control at a physical level of being. (Lucifer, Hilarion, Budharas, Wesas and other 'seraphim & angelics' are the unseen controlling force.
For further info on these agendas read )

The further one goes into their 'clearing process', the further you are taken back in time, until the ascending initiate is clearing karma from the times of our very first seedings (200,000 years ago on earth).
The karma clearing process, allows the initiate to reveal the truths of all these unseen, and up-til-now unknown realitys
(because these unseen beings wanted it that way - for their own controlling continuence.

But now it is our Ascension Cycle - and all truths must be known, All Veils must be Lifted. One cannot ascend in any ignorance. Really none of the old works of any hold much truth, as all masters have been manipulated in one way or another. And NONE have any ascension information.

And clearing with or from the Annanuki - the fallen angelics, and all the false gods (now called 'ascended masters' .. which are another interfering dark agenda) allows each initiate to finally reveal the truths of all these dark agendas.
How they control
Exactly who they all are.
And whether they really existed at all.

Namaste and Blessings
oKa

Hi Oka,

Thanks for your post, yes, I agree that the truth must be known!

Very interesting, Mary Baker Eddy makes some very good points thank you.

I have found myself drawn to her writings since I have been on HP and can begin to see some logic in some of what she says.

Hi Healistic,

Thanks for that - Christian Science is a science in that it moves one from blind belief to understanding. It corrects misconceptions (like the many contradictions in the Bible) doesn't rely on blind faith and above all, is based on a repeatable and demonstrable principle. But you have to be prepared to think things through and work them out for yourself.

Perhaps what I should have said is that it is the love and our belief within us that destroys our satanistic thoughts.

I totally agree with that, but would remove the word "our" before "satanic thoughts". We must be careful not to identify ourselves with anything un-godlike!

Love and peace,

Judy

Further, 'Satan' can be used to refer to any evil spirit, and in Islam could sometimes refer to a jinn. Now, a lot of people have encountered such things - even so down-to-earth a person as ... I think it was Ranulph Fiennes, and if not then an SAS man who lived a similar adventurous life - has referred to his Arab troops being prey to a jinn one night on a gloomy and strange hill, the jinn seeming to jump from one soldier's body to another.

Hi V - sorry, but that sounds like mass hysteria to me, rather than an entity called an evil spirit! I absolutely believe that this happened and was witnessed, but was simply contagious fear. One would think that tough soldiers could resist this, but have they been taught how to resist hypnotism?

Do you remember V when we had a Christian visiting HP. He had convinced himself that every time he walked past a Chinese temple in Hong Kong evil spirits came out of it and attached themselves to him.

If we fear something enough, it will appear – whether as the form of a ghostly being or as a cancer, or even an accident. I remember when you witnessed a group of people being “possessed” – but it didn’t touch you. Also, there are some books I love by a Christian author called Catherine Marshall. In one of her books she tells of visiting a church where they all start speaking in tongues and rolling around laughing (is that called the Toronto wave or something?) Well, it didn’t touch her and I wasn’t surprised as she was a clear-thinking, logical person and would not give her permission mentally to get caught up in what appears to me to be a form of mass hysteria.

Back in the '50's, there was a rubber planter in the Far East who was hated by the locals, They decided to get rid of him. They started banging drums in the hills above the plantation. For three months the planter heard these and thought nothing of them. He knew that when the locals put curses on people they did it by banging drums, but he didn't connect it with himself.

Then one day he asked the gardener who they were banging the drums against and the gardener said "They're banging them against you - they hate you and they want to get rid of you." The planter became so ill that he had to return to Britain to save his life. Now, did those drums have any power? Did that curse have any actual power? NO! The only power they had was when the planter gave his consent and feared them.

Mary Baker Eddy writes on this subject:

There are evil beliefs, often called evil spirits; but these evils are not Spirit, for there is no evil in Spirit. Because God is Spirit, evil becomes more apparent and obnoxious proportionately as we advance spiritually, until it disappears from our lives. This fact proves our position, for every scientific statement in Christianity has its proof. Error of statement leads to error in action.
God is not the creator of an evil mind. Indeed, evil is not Mind. We must learn that evil is the awful deception and unreality of existence. Evil is not supreme; good is not helpless; nor are the so-called laws of matter primary, and the law of Spirit secondary. Without this lesson, we lose sight of the perfect Father, or the divine Principle of man. (Science and Health p 206)

The maximum of good is the infinite God and His idea, the All-in-all. Evil is a suppositional lie.
As named in Christian Science, animal magnetism or hypnotism is the specific term for error, or mortal mind. It is the false belief that mind is in matter, and is both evil and good; that evil is as real as good and more powerful. This belief has not one quality of Truth. It is either ignorant or malicious. The malicious form of hypnotism ultimates in moral idiocy. (Science and Health 103)

The mild forms of animal magnetism are disappearing, and its aggressive features are coming to the front. The looms of crime, hidden in the dark recesses of mortal thought, are every hour weaving webs more complicated and subtle. So secret are the present methods of animal magnetism that they ensnare the age into indolence, and produce the very apathy on the subject which the criminal desires. (Science and Health 101)

Much of Africa is still held in the grip of malicious witchcraft (interesting history – the natural spirituality was stamped out by the well-meaning missionaries and that allowed its very opposite to take hold) Here is an interesting article by a Christian Science Teacher in Africa who lectures on how to overcome witchcraft and this brings up huge opposition, mainly mental, which has to be faced up to. In this case his latent fear caused malaria but he was healed when he dealt with the belief in witchcraft.

[url]Nothing can resist my prayer[/url]

There is only one REAL power and that is the power of good, God. The power of Love and Truth and Life.

Evil actually has no power of its own. It is a lie, a denial of the truth. The only power a lie has is our belief in it – once it’s been exposed and the truth is put in its place, it has to fall. It has no cause, no intelligence and no law under-girding it. In fact, the only power evil has is to destroy itself.

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi V - sorry, but that sounds like mass hysteria to me, rather than an entity called an evil spirit! I absolutely believe that this happened and was witnessed, but was simply contagious fear. One would think that tough soldiers could resist this, but have they been taught how to resist hypnotism?

All it can come down to is opinion, Judy, as one way or the other it can't be proved. However, these were battle-hardened soldiers, and from my own experience of seeing people possessed (when silly parents had trained their teens to become mediums) I recognised it as real. "Evil"? No, I wouldn't call it that. Just disembodied. However on the setting of a strange dark hill at night, and with the sounds and words it uttered, it really must have been spooky.

I don't recall the guy you mention re Hong Kong temples. There have been a few with a couple of 'loose crucifixes' haven't there. 🙂

I also have a friend who actually came to believe in God (as he found a way to protect himself associated with spiritual belief) only when, in South Africa, he came under psychic attack in a very real way, as objects flying at him and invisible blows to the body. So, sorry, we each have our opinion, and IMHO these things are very 'real' (in quotes). Not, however, a guy with a pichfork who lives with very turned up central heating. :p

V

As (I supose) a non christian I do have a beleif in the Angel Lucifer and of Satans, fallen angels and evil also. Admittedly as you know I'm not religiously educated or well read on it & go by my own perceptions (which alter often). I do think that a person or people give evil 'forms' power through fear & I do think that some branches of religions are responsible for that with fear of the devil & hell ect, fear (IMVHO) is in the perseption, if humans where born with the knowledge of what their place is within the 'grand scale' or things they wouldnt' be affraid, but our mission (or whatever) is to find the truth hense 'evil' is a nessicary part of exsistance that helps us to experience and learn...I don't mean by doing evil things but by being aware of the wrong that is real...switch on the news, you know what I mean;)

xxx

I also have a friend who actually came to believe in God (as he found a way to protect himself associated with spiritual belief) only when, in South Africa, he came under psychic attack in a very real way, as objects flying at him and invisible blows to the body. So, sorry, we each have our opinion, and IMHO these things are very 'real' (in quotes). Not, however, a guy with a pichfork who lives with very turned up central heating. :p

V

Hey V,

I could do with that guy with the turned-up central heating around here with our bare floorboards with cracks - lovely and cool in the summer, but ...:dft007:

Yes, these things are very "real". Cancer is very real, blindness, disability, diabetes, depression, epilepsy etc. is very "real", but I know that they can all be cured through understanding their unreality and the All-ness of God, good! That isn't opinion - that can be proved!

These paranormal phenomena do happen – people see ghosts, they feel presences, but, as Eddy describes it:

Mortal mind sees what it believes as certainly as it believes what it sees. It feels, hears, and sees its own thoughts. …..
Though individuals have passed away, their mental environment remains to be discerned, described, and transmitted. (Science and Health p 87)

It should not seem mysterious that mind, without the aid of hands, can move a table, when we already know that it is mind-power which moves both table and hand………

It is mortal mind which convulses its substratum, matter. These movements arise from the volition of human belief, but they are neither scientific nor rational. Mortal mind produces table-tipping as certainly as table-setting, and believes that this wonder emanates from spirits and electricity. (Science and Health p 80)

A colleague in the airline came to me once, very troubled by what seemed to be a poltergeist in her flat. Curtains that were open in the room when she left it would be closed when she returned. Fruit used to jump out of the bowl on its own etc. After I prayed about the situation, all these disturbances stopped permanently.

In Jesus’ time, epileptic attacks were seen as possession by demons, as were violent mental conditions. In the 3 gospels there is the account of when an insane man was healed and the “demons” went into swine which plunged down a hill and were drowned. (my mother always gets upset for the swine in that story!)

Eddy describes this so:

It is recorded that once Jesus asked the name of a disease,--a disease which moderns would call dementia. The demon, or evil, replied that his name was Legion. Thereupon Jesus cast out the evil, and the insane man was changed and straightway became whole. The Scripture seems to import that Jesus caused the evil to be self-seen and so destroyed.
The procuring cause and foundation of all sickness is fear, ignorance, or sin. Disease is always induced by a false sense mentally entertained, not destroyed. Disease is an image of thought externalized. The mental state is called a material state. Whatever is cherished in mortal mind as the physical condition is imaged forth on the body. (Science and Health 411)

I personally know of three individuals who have been completely cured of medically-diagnosed and treated epilepsy through the understanding Christian Science gives of the nothingness of any power opposed to God. They now live completely normal lives, driving, working and are free from the drugs that before were so needed to control it (though they could not prevent it!) From my viewpoint, a violent epileptic attack isn’t any different from those “jinns” affecting the Arab soldiers.

The “poltergeist’ disappeared when I prayed to understand its nothingness and unreality.

….whatever is wrongfully-minded will disappear in the proportion that Science is understood, and the reality of being--goodness and harmony--is demonstrated. (Miscellaneous Writings p 366)

Just my opinion! 🙂

Love and peace,

Judy