Love

Hi Meta,

Love is a complex word, that's why the greek of the New Testament had several words for it. But to imply is that the Christian god has a monopoly on love, which is something I can't agree on.

To me love is the centre of the human experience and far more than just an emotion. Love is the expression of the soul, the channel whereby the soul can communicate. It connects all of creation and without love creation morns.

Love includes compassion for our fellow man and does not judge based colour, creed or sexuality. Therefore love is inclusive and does not exclude anyone.

Love is not a club to join, we're already a member, although many choose to leave it.

Love costs nothing, we don't have to pay to receive it, it's totally free. If we expect payment for love, we will receive nothing in return. But if we give love freely, then the returns are immeasurable.

So perhaps the answer to your question..... Look inside yourself and find love and then light it and you may see the love of others.

Myarka.

Is love an energy, or a force. If so, can it be measured. What then is the ultimate purpose of love.

Love is at the centre of our world, however, I think the human experience is so off centre it's sometimes difficult to find.

Hey, there are some great replies here! I asked a very similar question myself on another thread in response to this:

The main argument against the existence of god is the total lack of evidence of said entity.

Can Love be quantified Bosun? Can Love be measured? When did Love begin?
But there's plenty of evidence for Love (and that is another name for God) 😉

Myarka, I love your answer and totally agree with it, except that if you read meta’s question carefully, he is not saying that the "Christian god" (whatever you think that is, when God is Love itself!!) has a monopoly on love. He is pointing to the fact that we all experience and give love, whether religious or atheist, therefore, it must be universal. If we all believe in Love and Love is God, that is the end of atheism! It's the CONCEPT of God that people argue with, not the reality.

As you say yourself, Love is so much more than just a human (or animal) emotion.

To me love is the centre of the human experience and far more than just an emotion. Love is the expression of the soul, the channel whereby the soul can communicate. It connects all of creation and without love creation morns.

I have had several occassions when I have been so aware of the presence and power of divine Love, when I have either felt all wrapped up in love ("enfolded in Love" as Julian of Norwich saw) just before a physical healing becomes apparent, or once, when in extreme danger on an aircraft, I just turned to that everpresent and omniportent power, Love, put us all in Its care and felt a tangible warmth all around me, as if I was ringed with electric fires. What happened then was described by the captain as a "miracle".

Love is something we can always turn to because we can never be separated from it. With the human expression of divine Love, the interesting thing, as you have said Myarka, is that we can never obtain it, only give it away.

My signature is one of my favourite descriptions of God, infinite, divine Love and these words of Mary Baker Eddy's are another:

[COLOR="Blue"]Unfathomable Mind is expressed. The depth, breadth, height, might, majesty, and glory of infinite Love fill all space. That is enough! Human language can repeat only an infinitesimal part of what exists. The absolute ideal, man, is no more seen nor comprehended by mortals, than is his infinite Principle, Love. (Science and Health 520)

Love and peace,

Judy

Love is at the centre of our world, however, I think the human experience is so off centre it's sometimes difficult to find.

I thought the centre of our world was a solid inner core consisting mostly of an iron-nickle alloy! Sheesh, what they teach in schools these days... 😀

Principled....I am going to go back to my original question. Is love an energy that can be measured.
Christian Science rightly identifies that science, logic, and method is apparent in God's creation. Then science must be present in what we experience as love. How is this science then identified and what is its purpose. I do not believe that it is chance that has made love so important to us, or that it has just been introduced to reward or gratify our feelings....I believe there is a more important reason.

Hello Scom,

Yours are brilliant observations and questions. I wasn't ignoring that post, but it was easier to answer Myarka first! :p

I don’t know your background, but you obviously have an enquiring, scientific mind. Of course, physics deals with measuring time, space, matter, while metaphysics deals with the immeasurable; such as eternity, infinity and spiritual reality (which used to be seen as almost exclusively the domain of religion, though now thankfully, that view is beginning to change.

So to attempt to answer your first question, “Is love an energy that can be measured?” I would have to say no, because human or animal love, as I see it, is simply an expression of divine Love (what I call God) which is everpresent, infinite and eternal and cannot be contained within any mortal measurements or limitations or even mental concepts.

What is science? A dictionary defines it as: “…certain knowledge; the comprehension or understanding of truth or facts of powers, causes, or laws.” At its zenith, pure science surely is absolute Truth, immutable law, but in our human academic progress, we have not reached that point of understanding or knowlege yet. Again, won’t pure religion (or spirituality) ultimately find its truth in unconditional Love and won't that ultimately cause all religions and faiths to come together? I believe that one day both science and religion will come together for they will find that they are the same.

I just love your insights here:

I do not believe that it is chance that has made love so important to us, or that it has just been introduced to reward or gratify our feelings....I believe there is a more important reason.

I can’t remember the source for this, but the apostle John is said to have called people to come to a meeting at which he was going to make a very important statement. They traveled for days to get there and some were furious (though I’m sure that when they reflected later they understood) because all he did was to stand up and proclaim three words, “God is Love”.

I think you’ll find your answer in the Bible, particularly from I Cor 13 and I John 4. Here are a few sentences from John’s letter:

[COLOR="Purple"]Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

What did Jesus say were the two great commandments? Love God and love your fellow man. This is brought out so beautifully in the wonderful little booklet titled, The Greatest Thing in the World by Henry Drummond. This is the beginning of it and I’ll put a link at the bottom for anyone who would like to read it all.

THE GREATEST THING IN THE WORLD
Henry Drummond.

EVERY one has asked himself the great question of antiquity as of the modern world: What is the summum bonum—the supreme good? You have life before you. Once only you can live it. What is the noblest object of desire, the supreme gift to covet?

We have been accustomed to be told that the greatest thing in the religious world is Faith. That great word has been the key-note for centuries of the popular religion; and we have easily learned to look upon it as the greatest thing in the world. Well, we are wrong. If we have been told that, we may miss the mark. I have taken you, in the chapter which I have just read, to Christianity at its source; and there we have seen, “The greatest of these is love.” It is not an oversight. Paul was speaking of faith just a moment before. He says, “If I have all faith, so that I can remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing. “So far from forgetting, he deliberately contrasts them, “Now abideth Faith, Hope, Love,” and without a moment’s hesitation, the decision falls, “The greatest of these is Love.”…..

Nor is this letter to the Corinthians peculiar in singling out love as the summum bonum. The masterpieces of Christianity are agreed about it. Peter says, “Above all things have fervent love among yourselves.” Above all things." And John goes farther, “God is love.” And you remember the profound remark which Paul makes elsewhere, “Love is the fulfilling of the law.” Did you ever think what he meant by that? In those days men were working their passage to Heaven by keeping the Ten Commandments, and the hundred and ten other commandments which they had manufactured out of them. Christ said, I will show you a more simple way. If you do one thing, you will do these hundred and ten things, without ever thinking about them. If you love, you will unconsciously fulfil the whole law.

Christian Science rightly identifies that science, logic, and method is apparent in God's creation. Then science must be present in what we experience as love. How is this science then identified and what is its purpose.

"If you love, you will unconsciously fulfil the whole law." Doesn't that answer your question? Doesn't it also answer that great question, "What is truth?"

There's a saying I once heard that I love, as it lifts the concept of love out of the human romantic or sentimental emotion, right up to its real source, divine Principle, Love (God)

"Principle without love is like an iceberg.
But love without principle is like a wobbly jelly."

I have more to add, but don’t want people to get lost in a huge long post so will come back!

Love and peace,

Judy

I thought the centre of our world was a solid inner core consisting mostly of an iron-nickle alloy! Sheesh, what they teach in schools these days... 😀

nope Scott....school taught me nuffink about luurve!!

Hallo sweet people
Is Christian love the same as Atheist love? If God is Love and Atheist or any other faiths do love the same as Christians. We must then all belief in God. unless there is no God, and love is an unexplainable emotion. If it's not an emotions, and non believers love the same as believers, things become a bit hard to explain. No? Yes?
Regards Meta

Hi Meta,

I see love as not something that depends on belief. I don't believe in a creator God but I do believe that the love that is found in an open heart may ultimately overcome all causes of pain and suffering. Where does this force come from? I don't know. I know that I cannot know yet I know that it is the greatest force there is and opening my heart is the greatest work there is.

It doesn't matter what you believe in it's how you think and act that counts. Love is like gravity perhaps. Where is gravity? It is a force of attraction between objects that have mass. Somehow it is not there without objects of mass and it doesn't matter if you have a name for it, it was there before Newton discovered it. Love is different to gravity in that it's power is not dependent on anything at all apart from the heart's opening to it.

And surely it is the same thing; the open heart and love. Which comes first? The open heart or the love of the open heart? Is it love that opens the heart or is it the open heart that allows this force to be expressed? Where is this love without an open heart? Does it matter? I feel the answer to this question is "no it doesn't." What matters is doing the work to open the heart.

Norbu

Expanding on love....As a child, I remember a story in the Bible of the three servants who were given coins by their master who was leaving but would return.
On the masters return, he found one servant had lost the coins, one had hid the coins, but returned them intact. the third servant however had invested the coins and gave the profit to the master. This servant was praised.
If we substitute love for the coins it makes more sense to me.
I was told that on birth we are actually given a portion of love. It is not something that we haphazardly find, after we are born. Our earthly role is to grow this love and when we pass on we return this love. Love serves a purpose, not just on earth but eternal

Expanding on love....As a child, I remember a story in the Bible of the three servants who were given coins by their master who was leaving but would return.
On the masters return, he found one servant had lost the coins, one had hid the coins, but returned them intact. the third servant however had invested the coins and gave the profit to the master. This servant was praised.
If we substitute love for the coins it makes more sense to me.
I was told that on birth we are actually given a portion of love. It is not something that we haphazardly find, after we are born. Our earthly role is to grow this love and when we pass on we return this love. Love serves a purpose, not just on earth but eternal

Scommstech is so wise, wowwwww how sweet

Truth is being true

Norbu....It is strange that you introduced gravity into the theme on love.
This is the direction that my thoughts have taken me. We know the Universe is expanding, so the gravity that holds it all together must be weakening. If this gravity failed the universe would fly apart. It has crossed my mind that we may have been designed to supply the energy to replace this weakening gravity. Love is an essential force that we produce. Could this be part of our design plan to support the universe.
This to me would complete the circle. The Universe being designed as a system and a force introduced to maintain that system....or am I way off beam

Norbu....It is strange that you introduced gravity into the theme on love.
This is the direction that my thoughts have taken me. We know the Universe is expanding, so the gravity that holds it all together must be weakening. If this gravity failed the universe would fly apart. It has crossed my mind that we may have been designed to supply the energy to replace this weakening gravity. Love is an essential force that we produce. Could this be part of our design plan to support the universe.
This to me would complete the circle. The Universe being designed as a system and a force introduced to maintain that system....or am I way off beam

Hi Scommstech,

All I know is that order seems to emerge in the universe and the opening heart seems to me to be the greatest wonder of nature. A least this is the experience of it and it is an experience that seems to be deeply connected to reality. Who knows how this all works?

Norbu

This thread has moved on since I was last able to pop in, but just wanted to share a few thoughts. From my perspective, I do not believe that we are given only a “portion” of infinite, immeasurable Love. In our human sense, we live on a planet surrounded by air – it’s not something we often think about (unless the air is polluted or we have breathing troubles) We don’t worry that we have not been given enough air, like fish don’t worry that they have not been given enough water! The supply is always more than we ever could use! When parents have another child, the love they have doesn’t have to be divided between the two children – it simply multiplies because the source of that love is infinite divine Love, God.

I mentioned above how I have felt the tangible presence of divine Love at times of danger and just before a healing has become apparent - it is something that is impossible to describe in words. We reflect Love when our thinking is pure and spiritual and of course, when we open our hearts to let Love pour in! As Mary Baker Eddy explains:
[COLOR="Blue"]
The manifestation of God through mortals is as light passing through the window-pane. The light and the glass never mingle, but as matter, the glass is less opaque than the walls. The mortal mind through which Truth appears most vividly is that one which has lost much materiality--much error--in order to become a better transparency for Truth. Then, like a cloud melting into thin vapor, it no longer hides the sun. (Science and Health 295)

Here’s the reminiscence of a mother who was invited to a gathering where Mrs Eddy was the hostess, which illustrates what I’m trying to say:

I wish I could make the world know what I saw when Mrs Eddy looked at those children. it was a revelation to me. I saw for the first time the real Mother-Love, and I knew I did not have it. I had a strange, agonised sense of being absolutely cut off from the children. it is impossible to put into words what the uncovering of my own lack of real Mother-Love meant to me.

As I turned in the procession and walked toward the line of trees in the front of the yard, there was a bird sitting on the limb of a tree, and I saw the same love, poured out on that bird that I had seen flow from Mrs Eddy to my children. I looked down at the grass and the flowers and there was the same Love resting on them. it is difficult for me to put into words what I saw. This Love was everywhere, like the light, but it was divine, not mere human affection.

I looked at the people milling around on the lawn and I saw it poured out on them. I thought of the various discords ……. and I saw, for the first time, the absolute unreality of everything but this infinite Love. It was not only everywhere present, like the light, but it was an intelligent presence that spoke to me, and I found myself weeping as I walked back and forth under the trees and saying out loud, "Why have I never known you before? Why have I not known you always?"

I don’t know how long it was until my boy came to me and said, "Come, mother, they are going home." I got into the carriage and drove back to the hotel, but that same conscious intelligence and Love were everywhere. It rested upon everything my thoughts rested upon."

When we got back to the hotel, there was no boil on my child’s head. it was just as flat as the back of her hand……" (12 Years with Mary Baker Eddy I.C. Tomlinson)

Here MBE explains how to be in that divine consciousness:

I saw the love of God encircling the universe and man, filling all space, and that divine Love so permeated my own consciousness that I loved with Christlike compassion everything I saw. The realization of divine Love called into expression “the beauty of holiness, the perfection of being.” (S&H p 253) which healed, and regenerated, and saved all who turned to me for help. (Reminiscences by Abigail Dyer Thompson in We Knew Mary Baker Eddy p 68)

Love and peace,

Judy

I think love can simply be looked at it two ways. Conditional love (the giving of love with a requirement to get, or expectation of getting, something back in return) and Unconditional love (the giving of love without any requirement or expectation of getting something back).

Whether someone is Christian, Atheist or any other faith, there will always be people who always give love unconditionally and those who only give love if there's something in it for themselves. And of course there are those who sometimes give unconditionally and sometimes conditionally. I don't believe that the religious beliefs come into it. However when you talk of God being Love, if that is how you truly perceive God to be then it would be fair to say that even Atheists can believe in God. The issue comes when the teachings of what God is turns to it being some "other" entity, seperate from ourselves. That is when Atheists have to say they don't believe in God. First define God clearly and then we can truly answer if Atheists and Christians alike believe in God.

Can Love be measured? If you put a measure on Love then you are attaching value to it, and therefore making it conditional love, not unconditional love. You can measure unconditional love by what you get in return, but you cannot measure unconditional love, for it is given without measure.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Hi Judy,

I very much liked the account of the woman encounter with "Mother-Love." It was clearly a very clear experience. I think records like this are invaluable. But to me they just point out that it is an experience which comes from an opening up of something - a realisation of some kind. What it is that is seen is hard to say but everything changes as a result of the way we see things that's for sure.

On a slightly different but not unrelated subject, talking to a clinical psychologist, she said that "self-compassion" is the best predictor of improving psychological health in clinical case studies.

Norbu