is church really important to ones love in god?

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

I think you pose a very interesting question, Andre.

I'm a lapsed Catholic, and sat through 18.5 years of Sunday evening services (dad made us go, I never wanted to), and I remember sitting there, even as a 12 year old thinking, "My god (no pun intended), you're all being brainwashed." I agree, very 'cold', repeating words/prayers/responses verbatim that I still remember now (nearly 33 yrs old).

I believe the essence of one's spirituality lies in the way we act from day to day, not whether we turn up to meet at a particular building and conform to what everyone else is doing and saying. I can also agree very strongly when you talk about how people act once outside the church: my mum used to be taken to Methodist church every Sunday morning, and a CofE one every Sunday evening. She said that once outside, all the ladies in their lovely sunday best would start to b1tch about other people.

Also, the much-hyped 'missing' Gospel of St Thomas places doubt on the validity on the places of worship, as you made in your initial point, Andre: it's said that the reason it would bring down the church if it was made public is that it states that Jesus wanted followers to worship wherever they were, that specific places were not necessary, and that it was not a faith based on hierarchies. That would pretty much negate both the buildings and the priest/bishop/cardinal/papal system that's in place across Christian faiths. I think I'm right in thinking that the pope has Thomas' gospel locked away in the vatican somewhere. Hmmm, wonder why we can't all have a peek? 😉

Great thread Andre, I hope more people enter into it.

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

Quite simply No:)

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

hi red bess

im glad someone else knows the feeling too,im in no way against the church and those whom enjoy it,.its just in my experience.

but i feel that its a culture that seems to raise a competition as to who is the most dedicated to going church,or who has done the most for the church,then they hold their head up high above everyone else and say"im more holy or god sees me more as what i do in the church for him".
so this makes you feel that you are less towards godas these people put themselves on a pedestal.

i feel that whatever way you go to god in your own home,car, park even on country walks etc.god still hears,an their is no tenseness and whos the closest to god competition,you are on your own with your inner voice.

as long as god sees your heart and thoughts,and he hears your sincerecall to him whereever you are,then thats fine.

i do often think how long some churches can go on for the future, as this new generation and as time goes by are moving more away form the church,it doesnt appeal to them,maybe the church needs to think how to get accross to todays generation,not only to survive but to spread the word of god without pushing youngsters away.

i am speaking like this as i do feel that god is very important in our lives,and youngsters and young adults are falling away from belief,how can a future generation be guided to live a good, loving to others,and fruitful life without knowing?
i feel churches just seem to cater for senior citizens(nothing wrong in that at all),but its the upcoming generation that is concerning.

i plucked up the courage to go,and i came out,with the thought of "no thanks!",sorry no disrespects to the church,but i just felt it to me a dull,boring and lifeless moment,

i want to feel the atmosphere,i want to walk in and feel jesus in there,i want to listen to the talker with amazement to the bible and the books,people need to relate to everyday life of the bible,to walk out of the church feeling refreshed,to go out into the world ready for a challenge knowing that the holy spirit is with them.until another energy recharge next sunday.

energy,energy.....feel the love of everyone together.

just my thoughts...im sure there is much more deeper to this subject.

andre

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

Well yes there is also a passage in the bible where Jesus says to pray alone and where did Jesus communion? In the garden on a mountain always in nature.

Red Bess the Gospel of Thomas has been published for a long time, you can access it on the internet and I recommend the translation by scholar Hugh McGregor, the book is simply called The Gospel of Thomas, you may also enjoy the Gospel of Mary Magdalene by Jean-Yves LeLoup he provides a wonderful narrative, beautiful. Gospel of Philip and Gospel of Truth are also worth a look. In fact, all the Gnostic gospels are interesting.

Divine Love

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

Hi pthree,

You already knew the answer to your question but you do raise a very interesting point for Church onlookers. I was like Red Bess and knew at a very early age that the 'ranting' that was being dished out week after week was nothing to do with a Divine Being, but ordinary people wanting to exercise power under the religious umbrella.

Your quiet time in Church is that wonderful time when you connect with Spirit. I'm not religious at all, but I used to go into the Abbey in St Albans from time to time just to sit in the atmosphere, but it still, was 'never' as good as when I sat in a field on a sunny day - in fact it didn't even come close; but I liked the building and sensed the dedication that had been selfleshly given by the stonemasons of centuries past.

The reason why the teachings -that Jesus gave 2,000 years ago - have been given again in the year 2006 is exactly as you perceive, that Spirit wants all mankind - as individuals -to reconnect with Spirit, without the limiting structures of organised group mentality. (For those who do not want it, may I add)

Nice thread 😉

Best wishes
Publisher

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

Hello PThree

This one is on my mind a lot. I've had links with the church for many, many lives [&:]and in this life both my grandfathers, along with my father and my uncle, have been priests. Ouf! I feel maybe my karma is offering me the chance to re-negociate the relationship on better terms;)

It troubles me because if we can't fit in the church, we're left with fairly poor choices. Many non-church spiritual groups or gatherings promote a spirituality with Eastern origins, or else are very woolly and have no particular focus at all. I am a Westerner and my spirituality is centered around the Christ and Christ-consciousness - and that has to be OK! But the church drives me to despair and there is little else for me. I'm a keen member of the College of Psychic Studies, but the nearest they get to Western spirituality is shamanism which doesn't really meet all my needs, even though I have a lot of time for it. And although I'm a healer, the NFSH is so politically correct that any kind of spirituality is studiously flavour-free!

The solution, I'm thinking, is to decide exactly what kind of church I'd like, and to invite a few carefully-selected like-minded people to come along. Maybe a sort of every-other-Friday-night thing, with meditation and distance healing, readings and contemplation, maybe a little music, prayer and then a shared meal remembering the last supper. But definitely Christ centered where I'm concerned, which makes me a Christian regardless of what the Church definition may be.

Maybe you could think about doing something along the same lines?

Love and light
BigVoice

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

[link= http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t009.html ]http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t009.html[/link]

church itself doesn't save you, but it is absolutely important, particularily for accountability. In the NewTestament, it is assumed that believers are not in insolation but part of a group. If you're church is boring, perhaps it is time to find a new church, not leave church altogether. It is very hard to spiritually grow by yourself. As for Divine Love bringing up praying in isolation, that is because the Pharisees liked to have everyone see them pray these fancy prayers - they were't humbly praying for the right reasons. It is not saying worship in isolation.

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

It is very hard to spiritually grow by yourself. 

Only if you believe it is so, what you believe you create with your intent.

As for Divine Love bringing up praying in isolation, that is because the Pharisees liked to have everyone see them pray these fancy prayers - they were't humbly praying for the right reasons.

Remember winners write the history and those that write the texts are writing it from their own perspectives.

It is not saying worship in isolation.

Actually he did say to pray in isolation.

Divine Love

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

ORIGINAL: Divine Love

It is very hard to spiritually grow by yourself.

Only if you believe it is so, what you believe you create with your intent.

As for Divine Love bringing up praying in isolation, that is because the Pharisees liked to have everyone see them pray these fancy prayers - they were't humbly praying for the right reasons.

Remember winners write the history and those that write the texts are writing it from their own perspectives.

It is not saying worship in isolation.

Actually he did say to pray in isolation.

Divine Love

Jesus said pray in isolation, but again, you have to look at the context. Who was He speaking to? The Pharisees. Why? Because they were praying fancy prayers in front of large audiences simply to get noticed. Secondly, prayer is nottotallythe same thing as worship. Worship can be singing, meditating, reading Scripture aloud, etc...Was Jesus in isolation? Did you see him not interacting with other religious people - of course not.

What do you mean by "winners write the history". I am not quite sure what you are saying there...please explain? In the Bible, those that write the texts claim the opposite, "to be carried along by the Holy Spirit", not to be writing their own words, as you claim.

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

I think church is useful to remind you of what you need to do and how you should behave. Sometimes we all forget. Otherwise, it's like expecting to become a martial arts master by reading the odd book or watching a DVD.

Repeating prayers can seem like that but if you analyse what you're saying then it is a good weekly reminder of various things. I would only discount church and my religion once I'd fully understood it and knew that it definitely wasn't correct. As it stands, I prefer to add to my beliefs by reading other stuff eg books on Buddhism and books by Deepak Choprah, Caroline Myss etc.

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

Personally, I don't think church is important, no. To quote a Catholic friend of mine:

"The church is just a building, but my church is out there in the world."

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

Its a shame !,as the church has an atomosphere and energy of its own.
I like being in that atmosphere just walking around an empty church, (feeling the energy tingles)if you know what i mean.
,and looking at the artwork in much of the construction of centuries back.

However, the church does seem to be getting less popular in this day and age in relation to attendance.
But i do feel that, as guinevere states.the church is out in the world !
All around and within us. the divinehears us where ever we are.

But the church did have the " coming together of all", status, that helped communities giving love and help to each other.
I feel that was important, in this day and age where everythingmost peopledo is done from an "armchair culture".
There is less "people connection" and giving of help to others as there used to years ago.
,computers,texting, online chatting,TV,TAKE AWAYS,VOILENCE IN THE STREETS.etc.etc , tends to move others back to the safety and comfort of their own home.
This is the concern where the public is not mixing anymore,talking as one,

"remember the years where there were street parties ?,when all the estates would come together as one,children playing, adults getting to know each other?.everyone pulled together."
The church at least tries to maintain a gathering where all can at least meet with love, but sadly this and future generation maybe moving away, makes you think how the church will be in many years to come.
Only the people can make this change, to realise that to gather together with love is good, to help create a more friendly culture.

sacrel

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

I am a catholic i believe in god etc in they way i want to not by how the church might say etc as i do not think it is possible for everyone to agree on everything the same, i do not go to chapel, i have done on the odd occassion but i dont enjoy it if i am honest it like everyone is robots and must say this at that time etc etc.

I often pop in to chapel and light a candle for loved ones and say a prayer when there is not a service on simaliar to quiet time i guss and i feel thats what makes me happy in my faith and believes.
so the long and short of it is NO you do not need to go to chaple/church to prove you love or faith etc in god.

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

I used to think not and didn't attend church for 33 years until last October. But now I do think church is important if you are a christian and the scriptures are quite clear in that. Don't go to any church but the one the Lord is directing you to - that's the important thing. I travel 100kms door to door every Sunday and not by choice, I'd rather be in bed relaxing!

Church is not the building but the group of people that God wants to join you with and who makes up the body of Christ.

Since becoming a Christian (was brought up Church of Scotland) 2 years ago and since attending church not by my own will but that of Jesus (a big difference) I have greatly matured spiritually and learned so much from Jesus himself, things that just wouldn't have been revealed to me on my own.

Best.............Jacque.

'All roads lead to Jesus but only one to God'

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

Hi Jacque,

I completely agree with you! Church has nothing to do with a building - it's the love and support you get from a group of like-minded people. I also think the most important thing is not "What can I get out of church?" but "What can I give to church?"

A flock of geese flying in formation gets 80% more lift than one flying solitary. There's a lovely story of the vicar visitng a parishioner who had stopped coming to church. As he met him at the door he said "You can come in and have a cup of tea but don't try to talk me into coming back to church." The vicar didn't. He simply picked up the fire tongs, took a brightly burning coal from the centre of the fire and laid it to the side. The glow quickly faded out and the heat died.

Love and peace,

Judy

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

Hello pthree,

My own view, is that people do not have to attend church to express their love of God. A simple prayer or act of devotion is all it takes and that can be first thing in the morning, last thing at night, or some other quiet time set aside for it. I have never been 'churchy' at all, but I can understand why some worshippers need the fellowship of other like-minded souls and it is nice for some who worship God quietly in their homes during the week, to come together on Sundays. It really is personal choice and nobody should be dictated to about when and if, they attend church regularly. Whatever feels right for you,I say.

Love,
Patsy.
🙂

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

there are people who physically cant go to church, JESUS said, where two or more are gathered in my name, i am there also! so say your watching a godly program, church on T.V., arent there two or more gathered in his name? so dont worry, i dont go to church either because i cant find one that has the same beliefs as i do so i watch" Sheperds Chapel" and worship my own way! GOD knows my heart!

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

Hi Calissa,

Sorry to keep picking up on what your saying but I'm finding things interesting to read at the minute. I noticed you said...

ORIGINAL: godschild0690
JESUS said, where two or more are gathered in my name, i am there also!

That sort of implies that when we are on our own then Jesus would not be with us. Surely that isn't the case?

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

we were talking about whether its ok to not be a part of a church! and thats what JESUS said about that!

RE: is church really important to ones love in god?

Hi.

The established church always fails to point out several instructions and guidlines on the subject of church.

"The church is within"
"Build not an alter unto us lest we see your nakedness"

With all the spiritual awakening at this time, would it not be more productive to seek the truth than follow an age old convention that you were clearly told not to do.

The established church grew from adapting pagan ceremonies, even using the dates and celebrations and converting them to christian events. The chuch just wants to retain its power and status.

Government have a good idea of what is happening but they will never tell you. They would definately loose control.

Humankind has developed since the teachings of Jesus.

What would he reveal today?
Perhaps we could accept/understand greater revelations!