I am the way, and the truth, and the life

Hi All,

Yes, as a side-topic from the actual thread, Francis of Paola was extraordinary in all recorded history, East and West. Do read about him: I've no idea why he is so little-known: maybe because people just find his life hard to believe?

I remember this little tad, of an hour of his life, which I found online:

"According to a famous story, in the year 1464, he was refused passage by a boatman while trying to cross the Strait of Messina to Sicily. He reportedly laid his cloak on the water, tied one end to his staff as a sail, and sailed across the strait with his companions following in the boat."

I looked him up on Wikepedia but the account there is pretty short and dry. He seems to have escaped major public recognition (which is what he wanted).

He's a wonderful person to read about. I hope the newer biog is OK. I can tend to be a bit "scholarly" in reading, so I'm grateful to my friend to pointing out how you can see the funny side to his life: he meant that miracles were occuring every day and hour, so the joy is in wondering just what that was like, to have been near him.

V xx

I know only very little about what other individuals have done to express their one-ness with God. I know that you have told me, for instance, that many Hindu holy men have been able to do extraordinary things, even ascend, but what troubles me is that their enlightenment seems to be for self, rather than for mankind (which is probably why it's not in the public - because it's for self?) I may be wrong and please correct me if I am, but I’ve never heard of anyone with the record of healing others that Jesus had.

Shirdi Sai Baba (1838 - 1918) was considered by his many Hindu and Muslim followers to be a very great saint who taught that God was One and available to everyone, regardless of their faith. The Hindus considered him to be an incarnation of Lord Shiva and many people gave accounts of miracles they had witnessed him performing; bilocation, healing the terminally ill, appearing in the flesh after his death, and many people today attest to having received help from Shirdi Sai Baba...

The yogis of India can appear to be seeking enlightenment for themselves alone but in Hindu philosophy God is described as Sat-Chit-Ananda; ever-existing, ever-conscious, ever-new Bliss. We, as individualized parts of Sat-Chit-Ananda each follow the impluse, in our different ways, to merge completely with it. The Hindu yogis do seek enlightenment for the Self, but a Self which encompasses all of creation.

The Adorable is One, passionless, formless, nameless, unborn, existence, thought, joy (Sat-Chit-Ananda), the Supreme Abode. He pervades all things. He exists in all forms. He assumes a body and performs many deeds simply for the sake of those devoted to Him. He is supremely merciful and full of love to His servants, very affectionate to those who are His own, and in His compassion is not angry with them. He is the restorer of that which is past, the protector of the humble, the sincere and powerful Lord.

- The Ramayan of Tulsidas (c.1532–1623)

But this thread is about Jesus' words, "I am the way, the truth and the life." To me, what these individuals have been able to do, as his followers, just points to the truth of Jesus' words.

I agree, Judy. Paramahansa Yogananda explained those words this way...

I (the universal Christ Consciousness in Jesus) am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father (mergence in Spirit beyond creation), but by me (ascension through the Christ Consciousness omnipresent in creation).

I've always thought that 'me' referred to the ever-existing, ever-conscious, ever-new Bliss, that Jesus identified with completely.

P.S. Regarding the Life/Light question, perhaps the words could be seen as interchangeable?

I am the light of the world, whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life. (John 8:12)

P.P.S. I know of one holy man in India today whose devotees regard him as being an avatar, partly because of the Christ-like miracles he has performed.

Ihave looked through the old testament for the use of God's words as 'I AM' rather than 'I am', the use of the latter far outweighs the former in instances - I have also looked through the new testament for Jesus' words of 'I am' and in many cases one would never translate it into 'I AM'.
The duality of Jesus, the man and God within may be the reason for this of course, it does not mean though that every case of 'I am' should be translated into 'I AM', in fact the duality says that it should not.
That does not say how the 'I am the way..." should be translated - it just opens the door to the possibility that 'I am' may be the correct translation.

How many then have asked Jesus? I see no mention from others above that they have done this and I wonder why.....surely the whole point is that he is still accessible and will give an answer if asked.

love
chris

Ihave looked through the old testament for the use of God's words as 'I AM' rather than 'I am', the use of the latter far outweighs the former in instances - I have also looked through the new testament for Jesus' words of 'I am' and in many cases one would never translate it into 'I AM'...

This is an explanation given by Sri Ramana Maharshi...

The Self is known to everyone, but not clearly. You always exist. The be-ing is the Self. ‘I am’ is the name of God. Of all the definitions of God, none is indeed so well put as the Biblical statement ‘I am that I am’ in Exodus 3.

There are other statements, such as Brahmaivaham (Brahman am I), Aham Brahmasmi (I am Brahman), and Soham (I am he). But none is so direct as the name Jehovah which means ‘I am’. The absolute being is what is. It is the Self. It is God. Knowing the Self, God is known. In fact God is none other than the Self.

Hi Barafundle,

Thanks very much for that! I appreciated all your quotes, particularly the Paramahansa Yogananda one!

Love and peace,

Judy

Great thread: hope to get back to it after virus.

Keep the posts coming as it's interesting.

V

Hi Chris,

I’m impressed at how deeply you are searching for answers!

As I think I said earlier, my understanding of I AM is that infinite Spirit (God) is the one I, while Spirit’s expression, immortal man and the universe is the AM, the Christ expressing Life, Love, Truth, intelligence (the one divine Mind) Soul and Principle as US! So I AM to me, is God and His idea, the spiritual universe, including man. And the spiritual is what is real and present here and now in what appears to be material, with all its limitations.

To me, Jesus is the Way-shower, the infinite Christ is the Way.

Mary Baker Eddy explains: (my highlights)

[COLOR="Blue"]The Christ was not human. Jesus was human, but the Christ Jesus represented both the divine and the human, God and man…
(Message to 1901 p 10)

…let us see what it is to believe. It means more than an opinion entertained concerning Jesus as a man, as the Son of God, or as God; such an action of mind would be of no more help to save from sin, than would a belief in any historical event or person. But it does mean so to understand the beauty of holiness, the character and divinity which Jesus presented in his power to heal and to save, that it will compel us to pattern after both; in other words, to "let this Mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus." (Phil. ii. 5.) (Miscellaneous Writings 197)

I have been looking at some of Jesus’ wonderful mission statements:

[COLOR="Purple"]I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. (John 10)

I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. (John 12)

To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. (John 18)

I love Eddy’s description here of Jesus’ example as the Way-shower:
[COLOR="Blue"]
Jesus taught us to walk over, not into or with, the currents of matter, or mortal mind. His teachings beard the lions in their dens. He turned the water into wine, he commanded the winds, he healed the sick,--all in direct opposition to human philosophy and so-called natural science. He annulled the laws of matter, showing them to be laws of mortal mind, not of God. He showed the need of changing this mind and its abortive laws. He demanded a change of consciousness and evidence, and effected this change through the higher laws of God. ……. Jesus required neither cycles of time nor thought in order to mature fitness for perfection and its possibilities. He said that the kingdom of heaven is here, and is included in Mind;.. (Unity of Good 11)

Thus the great Way-shower, invested with glory, is understood, and his words and works illustrate "the way, the truth, and the life." (My 349)

I have more to add Chris when I can, but just wanted to say that I’m really grateful you started this thread. We haven’t had a really good discussion like this for months!

Love and peace,

Judy

That does not say how the 'I am the way..." should be translated - it just opens the door to the possibility that 'I am' may be the correct translation.

How many then have asked Jesus? I see no mention from others above that they have done this and I wonder why.....surely the whole point is that he is still accessible and will give an answer if asked.

Hi again Chris,

I find this intriguing! I’m just wondering how to answer.

Of course there are probably millions of people who will turn to a priest, a saint, an angel or of course Jesus for help and guidance. That’s what works for them.

I have been brought up with the First Commandment, which, as Jesus said was,

[COLOR="Purple"]“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.” (Matt 22)
And of course, the way it was given to Moses:

[COLOR="Purple"]Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (Ex 20)

And Jesus taught us to pray, [COLOR="Purple"]“Our Father…” (Matt 6) (Actually, I normally pray, Our Father-Mother… )

You see, I believe Chris that we are each of us one with God, that we have a direct connection, that if we leave the human mind, we too can,[COLOR="Purple"] “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:.” (Phil 2) That is where I turn for answers – and they come.

Now I know that Jesus said:

[COLOR="Purple"]I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. (John 16)

But to me, this gets back to seeing Jesus’ true nature – the Christ, rather than petitioning Jesus the man. The use of the word ‘name’ in the Hebrew denotes nature, character, being, presence, prophecy and spiritual destiny. There were several characters in the Bible, who, after a spiritual transformation of thought, were given a change of name – Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, and Saul to Paul for instance.

While I totally disagree with this website’s declaration that God made Adam in His image and likeness (the two accounts of creation in Genesis were written at different authors and at different times) it gives one a good understanding of the meaning of the word “name” in the Bible.

So that was a convoluting way of trying to answer your question (which I thought was a very good one).

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi Judy,
The reason I asked was simple...
either we believe in life after death or we do not, Jesus is no exception (except of his God duality part of course).
So if there is life after death, and I've seen enough to be sure there is, then we can be in contact, not via a priest - who would like to act as translator in order to retain power, but direct contact, question and answer, exchange of concepts and feelings, exchange of love, with those who have passed on, and Jesus is no exception.
I do not beleive the church structure encourages this (except perhaps the spiritualists), yet there is no reason except for a loss of control by the institutuions that we should not contact Jesus, and God directly - not to beg for favours, for this is not right, we have free will we make our own favours, but to learn - and to love and support.
So the question remains - how many have been in contact with Jesus?

love
chris

Hi Judy,
You said:
"To me, Jesus is the Way-shower"
yes - this is why I started this - the way to God comes not from hoping that Jesus died to save our souls, or begging for forgiveness or depending upon a priest telling us to do some penance, but from living like Jesus, by the way, the truth and the life, that is all we have to do - he came to show us the way and so ave us, not to die for us, his death was the final expression of his steadfastness to the way, the truth and the life, he showed just how far it can be stretched.

Thanks for the quotes - it is so nicve to be able to search the bible for 'I am', quick and easy, and many things God (is purported to have) said, and Jesus make sense as I AM, but equally many do not, however I think that perhaps just like his duality there may be a bit of each in all of them.

glad you like the thread, I'm enjoying it too.

love
chris

So the question remains - how many have been in contact with Jesus?

Just curious Chris - have you? 😉

Love and peace,

Judy

Whenever I ask - Jesus, like God and the shamans, all of those in spirit are available whenever we ask - all we have to do is seek for the right reasons. Not many seek by the sound of it.
Many of those in spirit need healing just like those here, not much is different.

Edited to add (ar actually ask) - what are people doing when they pray? If all they are doing is asking for things and not listening then they will hear nothing, and their requsets are just begging, this is not what prayer should be about - it is communication with those we pray to, rather to ask what we can do to help and listen for the answer than loudly beg and hear nothing.
Remember also that Jesus was not only seen as a healer but as a teacher - he is still those things and will teach anyone who needs it to heal.

love
chris

Hi Chris,

Your question was how many have asked Jesus. Now, I've explained why I only ask God - and we all have a direct connection to the Mind of Christ. I take these words of Mary Baker Eddy very seriously:
[COLOR="Blue"]
There is mortal mind-reading and immortal Mind-reading. The latter is a revelation of divine purpose through spiritual understanding, by which man gains the divine Principle and explanation of all things. Mortal mind-reading and immortal Mind-reading are distinctly opposite standpoints, from which cause and effect are interpreted. The act of reading mortal mind investigates and touches only human beliefs. (Science and Health 83)

But I found this intriguing

Many of those in spirit need healing just like those here, not much is different.

Again, Eddy made these observations, which seem to back up what you are saying here:

[COLOR="Blue"] If the Principle, rule, and demonstration of man's being are not in the least understood before what is termed death overtakes mortals, they will rise no higher spiritually in the scale of existence on account of that single experience, but will remain as material as before the transition, still seeking happiness through a material, instead of through a spiritual sense of life, and from selfish and inferior motives.(Science and Health 290)

Existence continues to be a belief of corporeal sense until the Science of being is reached. Error brings its own self-destruction both here and hereafter, for mortal mind creates its own physical conditions. Death will occur on the next plane of existence as on this, until the spiritual understanding of Life is reached. Then, and not until then, will it be demonstrated that "the second death hath no power."
The period required for this dream of material life, embracing its so-called pleasures and pains, to vanish from consciousness, "knoweth no man . . . neither the Son, but the Father." This period will be of longer or shorter duration according to the tenacity of error. Of what advantage, then, would it be to us, or to the departed, to prolong the material state and so prolong the illusion either of a soul inert or of a sinning, suffering sense,--a so-called mind fettered to matter.....

If the departed are in rapport with mortality, or matter, they are not spiritual, but must still be mortal, sinning, suffering, and dying. Then why look to them ... for proofs of immortality, and accept them as oracles? (Science and Health 77 & 78)

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi Judy,
I'm not sure I see myself doing mind reading but I see the point you wish to make. I beleive not that I connect to the mind of God or Jeus, but that one to one communication is more like it - ok words are used but the communication is more than that, just as a hug can convey things that we do not have words for.
In all of this love and compassion are the keys that open the door, and we all know how to express love and compassion, we just do not always choose to.

Echoing the second part - there are many who have died who do find it hard to move on, or find themselves lost, or who are afraid to move on. They can linger for a long time until they are ready - and then with some love and unconditional acceptance, some healing and compassion they will move on and resume their journey. The things that they have done are not forgotten, or lost, for they are part of their journey past and are intrinsic to them, these will affect where they start their next life and stage of their journey. There are not just a few of these, but many and like all in need of healing they will gravitate to those who can help.
I'm not sure exactly how this alignes with the part above, but it certainly resonates a great deal.

love
chris

Mellen-Thomas Benedict had a profound NDE in 1982. I find his account really interesting, especially this bit, which Chris, would seem to tie in with what you've said above:

I had a descent into what you might call Hell, and it was very surprising. I did not see Satan or evil. My descent into Hell was a descent into each person's customized human misery, ignorance, and darkness of not-knowing. It seemed like a miserable eternity. But each of the millions of souls around me had a little star of light always available. But no one seemed to pay attention to it. They were so consumed with their own grief, trauma and misery. But, after what seemed an eternity, I started calling out to that Light, like a child calling to a parent for help.

Then the Light opened up and formed a tunnel that came right to me and insulated me from all that fear and pain.
[DLMURL] http://www.mellen-thomas.com/stories.htm [/DLMURL]

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi Judy,
You read vey widely I can see, and this bit does again ring a bell. Of course it is never quite as simple as any individual person sees it, but then detail is often tempered by our own experiences.
For instance we often see spirits and guides in familair guise, of course they really appear nothing like that, but this is their way of presenting themselves so that we can easily recognise them. The same is true of Jesus and God, their natural form is far different to what we see.
When I started this thread I never expected that this was where it would go - I have generally kept my work with lost souls to myself, not for fear of other people's reactions, but simply because I saw it as 'something I did'. I assumed that there would be others helping and that this was just something some people worked with - I assumed the same with speaking with Jesus, God and actually any of those in spirit that choose to respond when I ask.
There has been a very muted response (to say the least), perhaps people choose not to discuss this on open forum, perhaps not many have had the door opened to these things, I'm not sure.
We seem to have scared everyone off now - perhaps the thread has strayed too far from the origins - perhpas it has just reached a natural end.
Whatever - it has been interesting - and this is really the objective of all these discussions.

love
chris

Hi Chris,

I'm not "scared off" BTW! :p I simply replied to and do reply to posts that resonate. I wasn't sure where the thread was now going.

There are various people who work with 'lost souls': obviously they are in a real minority; but they are also extremely diverse. Some are overtly Christian, some are spiritualists, some "New Age". I forget the name of the organisation and it may have been set up by Peter Dawkins one of whose sites is (that one's on Shakespeare but may have links): that deals with 'soul rescue'. Etc, etc. Ascended Master students if you are familiar with the term do the same globally in a long service many hold each Friday evening.

V

. You simply HAVE to get the Catholic-published book on the "Other" Saint Francis. Not Saint Francis of Assissi. Hm, can I hunt down the physical copy .... yes, having woken in the night: "St Francis of Paola" by Simi and Segreti. Sub-title, "God's Miracle Worker Supreme." He only lived a few centuries ago, so a lot more is recorded of him than of Jesus. Publisher is Tan. Do obtain it!

People, I extremely-highly recommend this book to any reader. Oh, mine is from the 70s and by those authors I don't find it online: a big pity. I do find this on amazon which is a different biography:

Hi V,

I ordered the book in the link (had to get it from the US) and it's just arrived, but what a disappointment - it's a kid's book and not a particularly good one at that. Strange that the book you had hasn't been re-published!

Love and peace,

Judy

PS Just Googled it and Amazon UK have the original book that you were raving about - so that's on its way too!

Hi V,

I ordered the book in the link (had to get it from the US) and it's just arrived, but what a disappointment - it's a kid's book and not a particularly good one at that. Strange that the book you had hasn't been re-published!

Oh, sorry you ended up getting the wrong book, Judy!

It is actually very strange indeed to me that the book I have was not kept in print. IMHO it's an absolute spiritual classic. The problem may be that THIS St. Francis, extraordinary as he was, seems very little known. I'm grateful to the friend who tipped me off about him years ago.

I honestly can't think of any holy person, West or East or wherever, who has so many accredited or recorded miracles to his name. (He had zero ego about it.) It's why my friend who tipped me off, in a way, found the book "funny": that you just it seems couldn't be near this St. Francis without extraordinary things happening all the time!

V