I am the way, and the truth, and the life

Hi Chris,

What a surprise to find this post on the general discussions!

You say:

This is not a Christian message, but is universal.

But I would say that is IS the Christian message but it's also a universal message.

I haven't a lot of time right now, but am sure I'll come back to this thread, but just wanted to share an insight from the Christian Science periodicals into what Jesus' real mission was - what made him the way, the truth and the life.:

Jesus' life was not an illustration of how God could be manlike. Instead, his life afforded incontestable proof that man's true identity is Godlike. Jesus illustrated how each individual can realize himself to be the likeness of God. To define Jesus as God would misrepresent the nature of God, who is All, infinite Spirit.
*
On the other hand, to define Jesus' true nature as a mortal is to misrepresent his real identity. Jesus came not to show us that God can be a man but to disprove the belief that God's man is a mortal...
Christ Jesus and True Sonship by Nathan Talbot

Jesus fully demonstrated the spiritual man of Genesis 1, "Made in the image and likeness of God" - the man blessed and given authority. That is us, the man and woman of God's creating - not the counterfeit Adam and Eve, made of dust and weak and disobedient.

It is our awakening to the fact that God is Life, Truth, Love, Spirit, Soul, Principle and Mind and that man expresses this limitless consciousness that enables us to know our eternal coexistence with God that has never been broken. Man has never fallen. Our eternal selfhood, which is present, here and now, as Jesus showed us, is sinless, pure and free!

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi Judy,
Thanks for your reply (so far), I look forward to more.
Yes it is also a Christian message but I wanted to expand it because of its (as I saw it) relevance to so many other aspects of our existence, and to other religions of course.
I do not see Jesus as merely mortal, he was in part but was also much more, however these words were (again imo) directed to others to offer guidance, indeed to allow them to become more godlike if you wish or perhaps just to guide thier journey towards its optimal conclusion (whatever that translates out to people).
There is nothing stopping any one of us following this way, truth and life, we just have to see the obvious benefits and realise the harm of not following it - and this i think translates into healing (which does of course have relevance to Jesus), but also to those we touch and those who touch us as we journey, each connection being changed by our attitude to way, truth and life.
love
chris

Hi Chris,

Just a quickie for tonight - but wanted you to know that I completely agree with you! 🙂

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi Chris,

Thanks for a deeper kind of thread.

If I may add my two'pence-worth, yes, of course it's possible to envision that Jesus was talking about himself - whether we view him as mortal or not. But all my lifetime, I've understood this phrase to mean that he was pointing at something other than himself ... though he embodied it.

IMHO when Jesus said "I AM" (this or that), there is clear Biblical evidence, but also esoteric wisdom, that he meant something else. "I AM" is a fundamental name - of the One. It's also an affirmation; you can follow "I AM" with untold statements of power. The phrase is such as was revealed to Moses in the burning bush. Moses asked God if He had a name, and it was revealed as 'I AM THAT I AM'. That phrase in translation is often found in Hindu Scripture too: I AM THAT and etc.

So I think Jesus was saying that The One - the One God (by any name) is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life". He wasn't saying, as I might, "Hey, my name is Joe, and I am the way, the truth..." It wasn't about Jesus the person or man. He was pointing to something above and beyond himself.

But that's a "something" all of us can embody - we might call it God Consciousness, or whatever. Having typed that, frankly it looks trite to me as so many write of these things today, but don't really get near to it. (In the 'New Age'.) But certainly IMHO one can envision Jesus, a man, as having embodied it, yet saying something not about himself as a person. It was in my humble opinion a statement which is Cosmic and true even had Jesus never lived.

The "I AM" is the core of us. It's the core nature of the Godhead. It's the core nature of where Consciousness, in a Divine way, comes into being.

My own chosen "religion" is called "The I AM Faith".
One can read here about the "I AM" Activity: in other words, a spiritual movement called the "I AM".

Not that that should lead away from your original and basic discussion.

V

Hi Venetian,
Thanks for the input.
I am aware of the I AM THAT I AM discussions that have been going on and of some of the many translations of it.
I'm not sure how much of this can be translated into the words of Jesus, I think one has to look at who he was talking to and perhaps the context of the discussion.
However, one of the things about a great orator like Jesus is that their words can mean different things to different people, and as he often spoke in parables so that the people of the time would understand the meaning he wished to convey we (in today's world) are often left finding many translations - all relevant somehow.

Added..
I also only quoted the first bit of this (which did make it a bit out of context) because i'm not convinced that Jesus would have said the "Nobody Comes To The Father Except Through Me", mainly because it was too exclusive and would have made no sense - what about all those already who had found 'the Father', and what about all those who would not have heard of him.
So I think that the second part would have been more about 'this is the way to reach God - by understnding what i've just said - it is the example I set of the way, the truth and the life' - now that makes sense to me, it has no political (perhaps added later) overtones, and texturally it is far more loving and compassionate.

love
chris

Hi Chris,

Thanks for a deeper kind of thread.

If I may add my two'pence-worth, yes, of course it's possible to envision that Jesus was talking about himself - whether we view him as mortal or not. But all my lifetime, I've understood this phrase to mean that he was pointing at something other than himself ... though he embodied it.

IMHO when Jesus said "I AM" (this or that), there is clear Biblical evidence, but also esoteric wisdom, that he meant something else. "I AM" is a fundamental name - of the One. It's also an affirmation; you can follow "I AM" with untold statements of power. The phrase is such as was revealed to Moses in the burning bush. Moses asked God if He had a name, and it was revealed as 'I AM THAT I AM'. That phrase in translation is often found in Hindu Scripture too: I AM THAT and etc.

So I think Jesus was saying that The One - the One God (by any name) is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life". He wasn't saying, as I might, "Hey, my name is Joe, and I am the way, the truth..." It wasn't about Jesus the person or man. He was pointing to something above and beyond himself.

But that's a "something" all of us can embody - we might call it God Consciousness, or whatever. Having typed that, frankly it looks trite to me as so many write of these things today, but don't really get near to it. (In the 'New Age'.) But certainly IMHO one can envision Jesus, a man, as having embodied it, yet saying something not about himself as a person. It was in my humble opinion a statement which is Cosmic and true even had Jesus never lived.

The "I AM" is the core of us. It's the core nature of the Godhead. It's the core nature of where Consciousness, in a Divine way, comes into being.

My own chosen "religion" is called "The I AM Faith".
One can read here about the "I AM" Activity: in other words, a spiritual movement called the "I AM".

Not that that should lead away from your original and basic discussion.

V

Venitian is wise indeed Regards Meta

Added..
I also only quoted the first bit of this (which did make it a bit out of context) because i'm not convinced that Jesus would have said the "Nobody Comes To The Father Except Through Me", mainly because it was too exclusive and would have made no sense - what about all those already who had found 'the Father', and what about all those who would not have heard of him.

Absolutely, Chris.

It seems impossible to me that Jesus meant "I" in a purely personal context. That takes us back into the errors of Christian theology whereby nobody could be "saved" before Jesus lived - which is hardly rational. Well, I don't think of it as "saved" but as evolved or spiritually grown.

So in my books, Jesus was either talking totally impersonally - "I AM" being the One, and not himself - or, of course, there's no dichotomy in thinking either that he meant the "I AM" or One Presence, which can be present in anyone including in him. But he wasn't talking about his human personality.

Slightly off-topic, but I heard an ancient, very ancient, name for the One which I think is wonderful. It's: The All-Perfect One Living Being Itself. What an all-encompassing phrase for God or The One.

V

Um, I thought it was 'the way, the truth and the light'.

Two more things on this fascinating phrase, "I AM".

First of all, think of "AM" as being impersonal, rather like thinking of the omnipresence of God, yet without a personal or focussed consciousness, rather like how we find God all throughout Nature. So that's the "AM" part.

The "I" part is that God Individualises - such as in people such as you and me, or Jesus. We are the focal points of consciousness that's ultimately Divine. Yet if we were ONLY individual, we wouldn't be a part of God or the One. So the One is both impersonal (not in a bad sense but in the sense of being everywhere, in every cubic inch of the universe), but the One also Individualises as beings with self-awareness. It is such beings, such as you, I Jesus, and readers here, who can proclaim; "I AM!" And that's a fiat, and it has creative power to create and to make things happen.

The other thing is that Jesus in the New Testament was challenged by the scribes (who were going to kill him for it), for claiming God was in himself. This relates to this thread. They still intended to kill him (but he "disappeared"): however, he first justified his own Sonship - that he was a Son of God (or a part of God) by quoting the Psalms. This was very clever as he was clever, since the Psalms were part of the sribes' own OT Scripture. He quoted the line in which God Himself apparently speaks to humanity in the Psalms, saying, [COLOR="Blue"]"I have said, ye are gods - all of you!"

So Jesus was justifying his own Sonship not as being a different species to you and I, but by citing that we are all "gods" (or Sons/Daughters of God).

The exact reference for this line of the Psalms can be found via Google - excuse me for not looking it up.

V

Um, I thought it was 'the way, the truth and the light'.

Nope, it is indeed "life".

V :p

Sorry for being 'enthused' but I like this kind of thread. 😮

In speaking of the "way", "truth", and "life" it might also appear as though Jesus was just being kind of chatty. I mean, as though he might have chosen any number of other words instead. I actually believe that the words are extremely carefully chosen.

Notice that they are three i.e. a Trinity. Almost every religion and spiritual Path has the/a 'One' which then becomes a Trinity. Obviously in Christianity. But in Hinduism there's Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. Many Hindus personalise these words as being gods; but in esoteric or deeper Hinduism it's always been understood that they are three categories of energy or aspects of the One.

In the late 1800s, in the West, Theosophy began talking of these three energies too, and the teachings on this continued throughout the 20th century in different movements. Modern movements tend to talk of "Will, Wisdom and Love". I can easily see how Will relates to the "Way", Wisdom to "Truth", and Love to "the Life". So I think Jesus was referring to this Trinity of aspects of the One.

But they are far from being just mere emotions or states - Will, Wisdom and Love. They are merely words, and behind them we find the whole of Cosmic Reality. In All, there's first a Trinity coming out of One: you find it in the three primary colours, in the positive/neutral/minus of maths, in physics it's in the positron, neutron, and electron. The list is endless. In esotericism, the universe is considered to be created and sustained by three primary forces too: kundalini, fohat, - and I forget the third.

So I reckon this was a very exact and precise thing Jesus was saying; as exact as a scientific equation, which basically is what it was and is.

V

Nope, it is indeed "life".

V :p

'Nope' sounds a bit dismissive to me. 'Life' didn't sound right so I did a quick google, of course both versions are there. Not being a scholar of religion I don't know what to make of this.

Many years ago it was always 'light', I never heard anything else in church or at school. We also heard 'hallowed be thy name', which I gather is now said 'holy is your name' or something. Is this a case of dumbing down? Dumbing up? Are there two versions? Were we taught the Catholic version or something?

It never occurred to me that nobody else would think this sounded odd until I asked. Anyone else think it sounds wrong?

Hi everyone I find this thread fascinating and will return to it later when I have a minute to read it properly. I have been thinking about something along the same lines namely "Be still and know that I Am God"

Kvdp I think I was taught at school that it was the way the truth and the light, however I now believe it to be the way the truth and the life.

Look forward to joining in later.

Love and Light
Linda

'I am the way, and the truth, and the life' is from the gospel of St. John, chapter 14 verse 6. The word 'life' is 'Zoe' in the original Greek, from the verb 'zao', to live. So it is, correctly, 'life', not 'light'.

'Life' didn't sound right so I did a quick google, of course both versions are there. Not being a scholar of religion I don't know what to make of this.

Many years ago it was always 'light', I never heard anything else in church or at school. We also heard 'hallowed be thy name', which I gather is now said 'holy is your name' or something. Is this a case of dumbing down? Dumbing up? Are there two versions? Were we taught the Catholic version or something?

Hi kvdp,

Derek is right and the quote of this thread has the word life. Here are a few translations:

However, looking at that, I was reminded of this other Bible passage, also from John's gospel:

[COLOR="Purple"]John 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

Perhaps you are getting confused between the two?

Love and peace,

Judy

Just to touch quickly on the I AM discussion. I have always understood this to be referring to God and His idea, the universe, including man (but the spiritual sense of it, which is the real and actual – not our corporeal sense of it.)

So, in a very basic way, God is the one I, man is the AM – God's expression.

Though this article was prompted by the 7/7 bombings in London, Marta discusses the concept of I AM in the second part (underneath "God is the only presence and the only power"):

[url]Suicide is not the way out[/url]
[COLOR="Teal"]But what is I AM? I see this name for God as pointing to true being, to our source, our real nature, our real self, and nothing else. Our actual identity is found in our connection with God, who is always present within our thoughts as His universal Christ. Science and Health explains the Christ at one point as “the real man and his relation to God.” Christ is always showing us our place within the I AM.

Love and peace,

Judy

I think we sometimes examine things too closely and put too many layers of construct on them. I went back through the new testamant and searched for 'I am' from Jesus - there are plenty, and in most cases one would never attach the I AM translation onto it.
Now as far as life and light - both, given the obvious aura that Jesus projected in his lightbody and the life he led could be correct - they both support that what he was urging was a way of being that was good, truthful and loving and compassionate - and that he saw this as the path to spiritual journeying and advancement, the simple explanation fits perfectly well, it makes sense and in my miond needs no further translation -if you are in any doubt then ask him, he will tell you.

love
chris

"I am the way, the truth and the life."

I take the belief that Jesus is the purest form of Love.

Following on from that, I see that the words could mean..
Love is the way, the truth and the life.

There are some other words that I love.

They go something like..
"Ask and it will be given to you...
seek and you will find...
knock and the door will be opened to you."

I see it as asking and accepting Love,
seeking and finding Love and
allowing the Love that is within to flow through inner doorways....

'Nope' sounds a bit dismissive to me. 'Life' didn't sound right so I did a quick google, of course both versions are there. Not being a scholar of religion I don't know what to make of this.

Sorry kvdp. I didn't mean to come across as dismissive. I was about to go out I think so was a quick post. It's just my style of writing, not meant to be dismissive. I was simply making the point that "life" is the actual word. However, you did make me do a double-think at the time, as "light" sounds plausible and sounds similar. So I had to look it up. :p To be sure. But while I'm not big on being a Biblical scholar, I was pretty sure that it was "life".

And it is, so that's really fascinating is it not, to figure out just what Jesus meant by (in English) "way", "truth" and "life". Especially "Life". What is meant by "I Am the Life?"

V

Ye Are Gods, All Of You

The other thing is that Jesus in the New Testament was challenged by the scribes (who were going to kill him for it), for claiming God was in himself. This relates to this thread. They still intended to kill him (but he "disappeared"): however, he first justified his own Sonship - that he was a Son of God (or a part of God) by quoting the Psalms. This was very clever as he was clever, since the Psalms were part of the sribes' own OT Scripture. He quoted the line in which God Himself apparently speaks to humanity in the Psalms, saying, [COLOR="Blue"]"I have said, ye are gods - all of you!"

So Jesus was justifying his own Sonship not as being a different species to you and I, but by citing that we are all "gods" (or Sons/Daughters of God).

The exact reference for this line of the Psalms can be found via Google - excuse me for not looking it up.

V

I thought I might as well look that up. The original, from before the times of Jesus, is in Psalms 82:6, and reads, "I have said ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes".

And in his own life, when challenged for seeming to feel he was more than just mortal, Jesus cited this, saying to the deadly scribes, "Is it not written in your own scripture, Ye are gods?" (He was referring too to the next bit - "all of you" - meaning that if all of us are gods by the scribes' own scripture, so was he.)

P.S. Fundamentalist Christians, who do indeed believe we are mortal and have no divine inheritance apart from "being saved by the Saviour", have an answer to this. It often amuses me.:p In the original text, before translation into English, the phrase clearly means in a literal sense, "You are Gods, all of you".

But fundamentalists, who are often NOT the best of scholars, have passed this off as meaning (since they only read English translations), "Ye are gods", and they claim this means:p, "Ye are God's" with an apostrophe (which isn't there) i.e. "You all belong to God". This isn't at all what the Psalm means, or what Jesus cited either. 🙂

But they always find some way out, don't they, in proving they contain no Divinity? How sad.

V

"I am the way, the truth and the life."

I take the belief that Jesus is the purest form of Love.

Following on from that, I see that the words could mean..
Love is the way, the truth and the life....

I see it as asking and accepting Love,
seeking and finding Love and
allowing the Love that is within to flow through inner doorways....

That is so beautiful Flit, thank you! 😉

And in the same vein, isn't Jesus also the highest and purest expression of Life (God) Of all men, Jesus expressed his dominion and authority over all mortal fears and beliefs about corporeal life, healing the sick and raising the dead, including himself!

And isn't Jesus also the highest and purest expression of Truth (God)? He said, "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free."(John 8) And to Pilate he said, "To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth."

To me, that truth is (as I said in my first post here) that Jesus came to show us that we too are the man of Genesis 1 and not the counterfeit Adam and Eve, we are the image and likeness of God, given dominion and blessed (not cursed!) Jesus showed us that our real self-hood, which is present here and now, our eternal and immortal manhood and womanhood is God-like; not that God became man-like in order to save only Christians.

Mary Baker Eddy gives (to me) a sublime description here of Jesus as the Way-shower:

[COLOR="Blue"]Through the magnitude of his human life, he demonstrated the divine Life. Out of the amplitude of his pure affection, he defined Love. With the affluence of Truth, he vanquished error.(Science and Health 53)

MAGNITUDE: Greatness; grandeur.
AMPLITUDE: Largeness; extent of means or power; abundance; sufficiency.
AFFLUENCE: A flowing to, abundance of riches; great plenty, wealth. (Webster's 1828)

Love and peace,

Judy

Hello everyone!

I'm new here, and probably don't live anywhere near any of you (I'm from Australia). But I'm glad to have found these forums, as I love the gracious, open-minded, thoughtful and caring attitude you all show to each other here. So I hope I'll fit in too. 🙂

This thread is on a topic that's very close to my heart too, which is why I finally decided to join in. I'm coming from a specific spiritual perspective: like Principled, I'm a student of Christian Science. I didn't grow up with any religion or faith, however, and when I finally found my spiritual home, one of the biggest things that appealed to me was this teaching's clear emphasis that God is universal, and that everyone is God's perfect, spiritual, beloved child.

So I agree completely with Venetian and Chris - when Christ Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life; no-one comes to the Father, but by me", there's no way he could possibly have meant himself as a person whom we have to worship in order to reach God, let alone that anyone who didn't would be lost for eternity. As Chris said earlier, that just doesn't make sense.

As I understand it, the "I" and "me" in that sentence are Jesus referring to his spiritual, divine nature - the Christ. This Christ wasn't and isn't confined to the person of Jesus. It's actually the true nature of each one of us, as the image and likeness of a God who (as the Bible says) is Spirit, Life, Truth, Love itself.

Jesus' whole life - healing every kind of dis-ease, turning people's lives around, and finally overcoming death itself and all the limitations of materiality - showed forth the presence and power of the Christ in the most complete way that humanity could see and understand, which is why he was called Christ Jesus. At the same time, he illustrated the fact that the Christ-nature belongs to all of us. It's not a person or a personal power, but the way God shows each one of us who we truly are. It's what enabled Jesus to heal, and the prophets before him, and his followers after him; it's what has enabled every spiritual thinker throughout history, whatever their chosen religion or spiritual path, to bring healing and blessing and comfort to others and the world. Wherever and however (and to whomever) spiritual understanding breaks through to human consciousness, to transform and heal - that's the Christ in action.

I'm thinking of a couple of quotes that illustrate this concept, but I'll put them in a separate post, so this one doesn't stretch on for too long. 🙂

Here are a couple of quotes I love from Mary Baker Eddy, who founded the Christian Science church. These quotes come from her seminal work Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures (some of you may know of it):

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]"Christ is the true idea voicing good, the divine message from God to men speaking to the human consciousness. The Christ is incorporeal, spiritual - yea, the divine image and likeness, dispelling the illusions of the senses; the Way, the Truth, and the Life, healing the sick and casting out evils, destroying sin, disease, and death." (p. 332)

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]"The advent of Jesus of Nazareth marked the first century of the Christian era, but the Christ is without beginning of years or end of days. Throughout all generations both before and after the Christian era, the Christ, as the spiritual idea, - the reflection of God, - has come with some measure of power and grace to all prepared to receive Christ, Truth." (p. 333)

In that light, to me, even the "no-one comes to the Father but by me" line isn't a claim to religious exclusivity at all. Whatever path we follow, we can only truly come to know God by coming to know ourselves and all humanity as God's image and likeness. And that's what the Christ - this "divine message... speaking to the human consciousness" - is showing each one of us constantly, in whatever way we can understand right where we are. If anyone were ever left out of it, well, God just wouldn't be God. 😉

Hello Charis - welcome to HP!

We do have members here from all over the world, but the vast majority are from the UK. Good to have an Aussie on board too. :p

I look forward to reading more posts from you.

Love and peace,

Judy

And in the same vein, isn't Jesus also the highest and purest expression of Life (God) Of all men, Jesus expressed his dominion and authority over all mortal fears and beliefs about corporeal life, healing the sick and raising the dead, including himself!

Hi Judy,

This is just a very slight comment as we tend to see eye-to eye in most things so you may agree with me.

IMHO Jesus ( and the thread is under Christianity) was the most famous and best exponent or example we know of as a human embodying God ... but again IMHO this is only because it was actually a part of his calling and Mission to do it all in full view, in public. I mean, if you believe Acts (I do) he even Ascended physically in public.

However, I don't believe he was necessarily the greatest spiritual person who ever lived. It's just that it was calling to do it all openly. Or rather, there have been others his equal. I believe that MANY people over the ages have achieved the same, but it's usually done in private. For one thing, not doing all that in public makes it easier, as Jesus' public role meant that he was subject to derision and attack. It's more easily done in private.

But - especially in reading Eastern literature - just in my humble opinion, many others have acheived the same Oneness with the One; have done ALL that Jesus did. It's there if you look for it, reading outside of Christianity. Otherwise, if we stick with a "Jesus was the best" idea (and I'm not saying you do?) then we are still too close for comfort to the dangerous and idolatrous nature of flawed Christian doctrine i.e that Jesus was "different" (as a species) from all the rest of us.

That idea is a religious virus which destroys the spiritual paths of most people, since they feel inferior and unable to achieve the same.

V xx

Hi V,

Let's see if I can address some of your concerns. Firstly, I do not idolise or worship Jesus. Reading the Bible, I feel quite sure that it the last thing he would have wanted - in fact, when people tried to do that to him, he would gently turn their thought back to God, as in:

[COLOR="Purple"] ...there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. (Mark 10)

I know only very little about what other individuals have done to express their one-ness with God. I know that you have told me, for instance, that many Hindu holy men have been able to do extraordinary things, even ascend, but what troubles me is that their enlightenment seems to be for self, rather than for mankind (which is probably why it's not in the public - because it's for self?) I may be wrong and please correct me if I am, but I’ve never heard of anyone with the record of healing others that Jesus had.

At the end of the gospel of John, there is this tantalising line:
[COLOR="Purple"]
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.

I guess too, that I feel that Jesus is special – not in his one-ness or abilities, (because, after all, he said, [COLOR="Purple"]“He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” John 14) but because he was the fulfilment of prophesy. We are all sons and daughters of God, but as he was born to a virgin (and yes I really do believe that) that to me makes him pretty unique, wouldn’t you say? I mean, i don't know of it happening before or since?

V, we go back many years and theologically, as you say, we are very close. But this might be a case of having to agree to disagree! You have your own cherished beliefs, I have mine.

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi Judy,

Yep, it's nice to be near to each other in theology, but then it also gets a bit sticky when tiny differences emerge! I mention that as a few years ago on an MA course, I learned that there are ... I presently forget the precise number, but it was something amazing like 400,000 different Christian denominations, all having differences with each other! How sad that from one man's teachings there are now 400,000 different opinions! (I realise you are not conventional Christian: I'm just citing that amazing fact.)

This will have to remain as opinion as I wouldn't know how to prove it, but yes, I believe that Jesus' achievements are relatively rare of course, among humanity (so far) but in numbers quite a lot of people around the world have achieved the same, but not publicly. He was an exemplar IMHO chosen to do it all publicly. Yes, there's not quite such an example from the East who did it so publicly I can think of none other like Jesus, whose mission was so public.

I know and respect your emphasis on healing. Now, I've mentioned this book before on HP over the years. You simply HAVE to get the Catholic-published book on the "Other" Saint Francis. Not Saint Francis of Assissi. Hm, can I hunt down the physical copy .... yes, having woken in the night: "St Francis of Paola" by Simi and Segreti. Sub-title, "God's Miracle Worker Supreme." He only lived a few centuries ago, so a lot more is recorded of him than of Jesus. Publisher is Tan. Do obtain it!

People, I extremely-highly recommend this book to any reader. Oh, mine is from the 70s and by those authors I don't find it online: a big pity. I do find this on amazon which is a different biography:

Judy and all, I'm sure Jesus did MANY unrecorded healings, so it's not a 'competition'. 😀 But I was first told about this saint and the book by someone I now virtually consider a 'saint' himself, and at the time, as he also has humour, he said to me that the book actually starts to get "funny" as you read it - because Francis of Paola worked miracles of healing seemingly every hour of his life, and people around him recorded them. You only had to be near him, it seems, and amazing things happened. He could walk into furnaces, make the wind change to bring a sailing ship back, etc, etc. It was all as routine to him as talking and walking to us! So do read this (or a) book if you are interested in (1) miracles (which are much more recent), and (2) another example of a great healer.

It's strange that he's relatively unknown! My point is that in terms of recorded healings he did many more than Jesus, and just as spectacular. Jesus was not unique, except in the sense that everyone is.

V

Hello Venetian and everyone,

I'd love to read that book too - it sounds fascinating! But in a way, not so surprising. Francis of Paola was a follower of Christ Jesus. And Jesus, according to the Bible, explicitly said (as Principled quoted earlier):

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to my Father." (John 14:12, New King James Version, emphasis added)

It would seem that Francis was simply doing precisely what his master-teacher expected and commanded.

Love to all,

Charis

Thanks V,

I remember you mentioning him before and I certainly will get the book this time. One of the Catholic saints who fascinated me from my years in the Far East, was Francis Xaviour of Goa. He body was hastily buried in China and then dug up three months later but had not deteriorated. It was then moved to Malacca in Malaysia and then to Goa. At one point, an arm was sent to the Pope and legend has it that it bled. Until the 20th Century, the body continued in a good state. But I don't know if he did much if any healing of others!

Mary Baker Eddy also did some phenomenal healing, curing cancers etc instantaneously, changing weather as well as physical and mental disease. She would go out for a carriage drive every day and people were often healed as she went past. One experience I love is when the milkman said that his well had dried up and there was no water for his cows. Mrs Eddy was told and the next day, his well was full, though there had been no rain.

Similar to Xaviour, when she died at nearly 90, the undertakers voluntarily made a statement expressing their surprise at the remarkable state of the body, which had not deteriorated (albeit after a few days rather than months!) but they also stated it was like a body of a young person.

But this thread is about Jesus' words, "I am the way, the truth and the life." To me, what these individuals have been able to do, as his followers, just points to the truth of Jesus' words. Eddy said,

[COLOR="Blue"] "There was, is, and never can be but one God, one Christ, one Jesus of Nazareth. Whoever in any age expresses most of the spirit of Truth and Love, the Principle of God's idea, has most of the spirit of Christ, of that Mind which was in Christ Jesus. " (Pulpit and Press 74)

So she points it all back to God and our one-ness with Him - the Christ.

Love and peace,

Judy