hell

My understanding of Christianity (bear in mind I'm not a believer of God in the religious sense) is that God is all forgiving and all compassionate. Why would the Christian God allow his children to suffer after they have suffered in life? There is no reason and as far as I understand it the only concept of Hell is that which we create within outselves during our lifetime. There is, IMHO, no such thing as Hell that we go to after we die if we have not been good all of our lives. As far as I understand, such a concept of "you will go to hell" is a means of control used by churches to put fear into people and try and make them do what the church wants.

You will get different concepts of heaven and hell and interpretations of what it all means depending on which variation of christianity you listen to.

My advice would be to use your own common sense and 'know' within yourself what the truth is. 😉

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Oh for heaven's sake!!!! What you or your family believe is not going to make one iota of difference to what happens to your cousin now that he's left this life. I'm sorry but it makes me really upset to hear this rubbish - one rule for believers and one rule for non-believers - what about believers from other religions or even other Christian denominations??? I'm not going to write any more because I don't want to upset you or insult you or hurt your feelings, but if your family is Christian and yet you don't know whether or not God has compassion and mercy...well, I just don't know what to say. You can of course go on believing whatever you choose - when you die, you'll discover the truth. As will we all. And the truth is that God is Love. And that there is no such place as hell.

xxxx

I wholeheartedly agree with the other postings, that there is no such thing as "hell". If there is a God/Higher Power/Universal Consciousness etc whatever people of different faiths and denominations believe in - I am convinced that they/(s)he/it would have to be loving and compassionate rather than vengeful and punishing. The latter is an invention of people who use fear to control others.

Masha

At the end of the day whatever crime we've committed and religon we are we all go back to the same place that we came from - heaven! I agree with all of the above that God is all love and he's with all one of us.

i am a christian, but a lot of my family are not.
recently my 37 year old cousin died. but he had such a bad time he had given up the alcohol and getting on his feet and he just died.
what gets me becuse of what we believe as he did not beleave in jesus that means he has gone to hell.
so waht is getting me is if you have a crap life and then you die and go to hell. what is the point of living?
is there any hope for non beleavers? does god have compassion and mercy?
what do you think??

Oh froggy, the doctrine of predestination is a man-made dogma – it has no connection with God who is infinite, unconditional Love. Hell and heaven are states of consciousness which we experience right here on earth! Your cousin is safe in God's loving arms right now.

Mary Baker Eddy who was a heart in protest, (like you) even from her childhood, wrote:
[COLOR="Blue"]
The author became a member of the orthodox Congregational Church in early years. Later she learned that her own prayers failed to heal her as did the prayers of her devout parents and the church; but when the spiritual sense of the creed was discerned in the Science of Christianity, this spiritual sense was a present help. It was the living, palpitating presence of Christ, Truth, which healed the sick. (Science and Health p 351)

The circumstances when she was 17 years old, which led to her acceptance of membership in that church (which she continued with until she founded her own) were interesting:

… Before this step was taken, the doctrine of unconditional election, or predestination, greatly troubled me; for I was unwilling to be saved, if my brothers and sisters were to be numbered among those who were doomed to perpetual banishment from God. So perturbed was I by the thoughts aroused by this erroneous doctrine, that the family doctor was summoned, and pronounced me stricken with fever.
My father's relentless theology emphasized belief in a final judgment-day, in the danger of endless punishment, and in a Jehovah merciless towards unbelievers; and of these things he now spoke, hoping to win me from dreaded heresy.
My mother, as she bathed my burning temples, bade me lean on God's love, which would give me rest, if I went to Him in prayer, as I was wont to do, seeking His guidance. I prayed; and a soft glow of ineffable joy came over me. The fever was gone, and I rose and dressed myself, in a normal condition of health. Mother saw this, and was glad. The physician marvelled; and the "horrible decree" of predestination--as John Calvin rightly called his own tenet--forever lost its power over me.
When the meeting was held for the examination of candidates for membership, I was of course present. The pastor was an old-school expounder of the strictest Presbyterian doctrines…… I was ready for his doleful questions, which I answered without a tremor, declaring that never could I unite with the church, if assent to this doctrine was essential thereto.
…..I replied that I could only answer him in the words of the Psalmist: "Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting."
This was so earnestly said, that even the oldest church members wept. After the meeting was over they came and kissed me. To the astonishment of many, the good clergyman's heart also melted, and he received me into their communion, and my protest along with me (Ret 13)

At the age of 45, after much physical and emotional suffering, on what was expected to be her deathbed, she asked for her Bible, read one of Jesus’ healings and had a glimpse that life was entirely spiritual, she rose out of her suffering, completely healed. Studying the inspired Word of the Bible for the next 3 years, she wrote a book explaining the spiritual meaning of the Bible and how the Hebrew prophets, Jesus and his disciples had been able to heal. At the back of the book are testimonies sent in by the early readers – here’s an excerpt from one:

SEVERE ECZEMA DESTROYED
…For five years I suffered with that dreaded disease, eczema, all over my body. Five doctors said there was no help for me. The suffering seemed as terrible as the hell fire that I had been taught to believe in. When Christian Science came to me two years ago through a dear friend, she gave me a copy of Science and Health and asked me to read it. I told her that I would, for I was like a drowning man grasping at a straw. I had been a Bible student for twenty-eight years, but when I commenced reading Science and Health with the Bible I was healed in less than a week……
Mrs. M. B. G., Vermilion, Ohio. (Science and Health p 665)

And here’s a modern day healing of someone who found that her prayers were not effective until she learnt a new way to pray. It’s a lovely healing of a tumour on a dog and then of a still born puppy coming back to life.

[url]Now my heart sings[/url]
[COLOR="Green"]Here I was facing two different views of God. Which one was the truth? I didn’t know. I was crying. What I did know was that one version hurt when I thought about it, and that the way Mrs. Eddy talked about God made me love Him. I just couldn’t get enough of those ideas of Him. How big and wonderful and loving He was! I felt so starved for the understanding that God really was the way she saw Him.

You might also find it helpful to read the first post on my thread “Does God send suffering?”

You go on protesting Froggy – God is Love and loves ALL Her children unconditionally!

Love and peace,

Judy

Froggy, firstly I am sorry to hear of your loss, and am sending healing and prayers to your family.

I'm quite suprised at how one-sided this thread is actually, and don't find it particularly respectful of others faiths.

I can see how we feel the need to console Froggy, that's understandable, but the Catholic faith, of which I was received into at Easter of this year does believe in Hell as a specific place. You can't just go changing that just because you fancy it! You can't just turn around and say we're ridiculous for believing in Hell which is what certain posts amount to!

I have my own views on Hell, most of which are not relevant to this thread as they would be offtopic more than anything else, but I felt this thread was terribly unfair to the Catholics amongst us.

At the end of the day we all have our own beliefs, and each one is as justified and relevant as the next.

I wish you and your family all the very best Froggy, I am sure your cousin is at peace. For I feel it is what is in the heart at the time of death which is most important.

Sorry, Huntress, if our posts have upset you. Of course you are entitled to your own beliefs and I wish you joy of them (though what joy can be found in visions of your loved ones possibly suffering the torments of the damned for all eternity is beyond me.)

so waht is getting me is if you have a crap life and then you die and go to hell. what is the point of living?
is there any hope for non beleavers? does god have compassion and mercy?
what do you think??

These were Froggy's original questions. I think most of us were keen to point out to him that there is certainly a point in living because most of us don't believe that a loving God would condone sending his children's souls to a physical place called hell. We (that is most of us on this thread) believe that God is Love. Mercy doesn't come into the equation, IMHO. Is there any hope for non believers? Well, of course. Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Indeed, many people believe that we manifest our own reality. Thus my reality contains no concept of hell. Your reality obviously does contain this concept. As I said before, I wish you joy of it.

xxx

My understanding of Christianity (bear in mind I'm not a believer of God in the religious sense) is that God is all forgiving and all compassionate.

I agree with Giles on the above point. I’m Catholic and my perception of God is someone who made us all (whether we are Christian or not) and loves us totally, who is compassionate and forgives anything if we are sorry – even after death.

I can’t say what happens after death – no-one can. However as I said before, God loves us all, wants to have a relationship with us and will do anything to bring us to him/her. It may be interesting that the Catholic Church teaches about purgatory. This is because hardly anyone dies free of sin. For example even if you’d led a really good life and then you had a bad thought about someone and then died suddenly – would you go to “hell” just because you had a bad thought before you died ? The majority of people die being “in sin” and the Catholic church teaches about purgatory because God needs to “speak” to us after we die and before we enter heaven. It can be a place of repentance so even if someone has led a bad life, purgatory can be a place where God shows his mercy, love and compassion before we really enter heaven (which simply means that we are with God for eternity).

Hell is also not the fire and brimstone stuff. It simply means a separation from God (or love). You can therefore be in hell whilst alive. A bit like living in a box with only yourself for company and only your own thought to think for eternity. Sometimes very selfish and self-centred people are like that. They only live for themselves but have no love.

No-one has the right to say that anyone has gone to hell. If they do then they obviously think they know exactly what God is doing or has decided. I remember being told I’d go to hell because I have a relationship with a Muslim. I just felt sorry for this person who obviously wasn’t able to see that God loves Muslims just as much as he loves anyone else !!

No-one truly knows what is in the heart of another but God is all loving and compassionate and knows our problems even before we do and I feel that this positive message from God gives hope to everyone.

I just wanted to add that I fully agree with both Sunanda's viewpoints, Energylz and Masha B.

I believe that life on earth is very important to learn the lessons that we do, and that earth itself is not the only plane of existence in the universe. As we learn our lessons, so we progress to higher levels of existence.

I have believed in God since I can ever remember, and I always will, no matter what happens on this earth or whatever anyone says. I also believe in Karma and reincarnation.

So, Froggy, I really think that to get your answer, you need to read the relevant books that are out there, and decide what it is that you feel you are most comfortable with, and what is right for your belief system.

At the same time, I feel sorry that you have lost your cousin and are upset, and would hope to reassure you that there is a reason for everyone's life on this earth planet, and definitely life afterwards.

Candlelight 🙂 x

Having a belief and being able to analyse those beleifs are what seperates humans from the rest of the animal Kingdom froggy.

Personally speaking I do not believe in either heaven or hell as places of angels strumming harps, or the devil stoking the coals. But another persons belief system might make it so for them. Neither is proven right or wrong, for who is to judge and prove it?

I can feel and believe heaven and hell being present in my life by how I perceive situations in my life. As far as I am concerned I have experienced both. But my hell compared to another's may seem mild to those who may seem to have suffered more. We are all here to learn.

If your cousin has suffered addictions and self destructive emotions whilst on earth froggy, perhaps he is now in a soothing embrace from whatever he perceives his heaven to be. May he rest in peace :hug:, and be brought to a place of self healing and love.

Hell is a state of consciousness, as is heaven. But once departed from this world we do IMHO gravitate to 'vibrational realms of existence' comparable to the state of consciousness we have. Thus "hell" is a place that the departed may be in for a while, and is simply a level or plane of vibration. (No fire and brimstone.) It's not God's Will that she should go anywhere but to the perfect place; however He gave us free will, and it's with that free will that we can abuse it and end up in "hell" (in quotes).

According to my belief-system, the esoteric system of belief basically, ending up in a'dark' place after life can and does happen, but only for as long as it takes for a 'purging' of the self from aspects of the misuse of mind and emotions. It's as if fine atoms are gradually purged from us, and thus we rise once more into a higher and better place after weeks or years (or earth-time).

It's all impermanent anyway, and people don't end up there forever, since IMHO reincarnation is a fact, and gives us the chance to do better next / this time.

Human concepts of hell are human mind-creations for the purpose of crowd control. ("If you don't obey your Pope you will go to Hell", etc., etc.)

V

("If you don't obey your Pope you will go to Hell", etc., etc.)

I don't want to go :offtopic:here but if you read about Catholicism - it states that Catholics should follow their consciences first not the Pope - hence the reason why many in the Church currently lobby for the Church to recognise contraception, homosexuality, re-marriage for divorcees etc etc - which are against what the Pople has stated. Also as I mentioned before, hell is not a fire and brimtone place but simply being separated from God and being separated therefore from love. Put simplistically - if you behave badly then you are not acting from a place of love (i.e. God) and are therefore separated from love (God). However Catholicism teaches that there can be a second chance even after death - which many other religions do not teach.

Apologies, Happygirl. My words were a bit quick off the draw there, as I didn't mean to point to Catholicism at all, but the general principle of "hell" as a concept to control people by. In the past, the threat of hell was certainly used by the Catholic Church, but these days I'd say you hear the heck of a lot more about "hell" and "the devil" from, of course, Protestant fundamentalists or born-agains.

Froggy didn't go into a lot of detail in the first post, but I hope the questions posed there are all amply answered by folk in this thread by now. It's a thin and insufficient form of "Christianity" in my humble opinion, if one can be one yet have so many strange beliefs and doubts as in that first post; but nevertheless, well done Froggy for sticking with your religion if "many of (your) family" do not.

I'd just suggest that you widen your horizons about what Christianity is, and the many forms it takes. Don't get trapped into a narrow-minded subset of Christian belief. Try getting some more general books on Christianity such as from the library, and not from any particular church you are presently in, just to get a wider vision and understanding. 🙂

V

Also as I mentioned before, hell is not a fire and brimtone place but simply being separated from God and being separated therefore from love. Put simplistically - if you behave badly then you are not acting from a place of love (i.e. God) and are therefore separated from love (God).

I think,HG, with all due respect that it's so sad that a religion would teach that it's ever possible to be separated from God's love. It's my humble opinion that God's love is eternal and unconditional and we can never be separated from it or from God.

xxx

It's my humble opinion that God's love is eternal and unconditional and we can never be separated from it or from God.

I know to people on HP this will be a truism, and obvious. But as you know, S, God's love to us is unconditional and forever, but people separate themselves from it - by not returning it to 'God', themselves, or other parts of life. And when people express the opposite of Love, then that's like the personal globe or aura in which they find themselves, and all they are aware of is that "hell". It becomes 'real' to the person as the only experience of existence they're aware of at the time.

But IMHO the Light always breaks through (or breaks out) in the end. And yes, it's not much of a 'religion' when such things are taught, believed, and gotten confused over.

V

I think,HG, with all due respect that it's so sad that a religion would teach that it's ever possible to be separated from God's love. It's my humble opinion that God's love is eternal and unconditional and we can never be separated from it or from God.

xxx

I don't really undertsand your quote here Sunanda. Possibly you don't like organised religion and that's fine. Personally I think people do make a choice of whether they separate themselves from love or God (not the other way round). I've said before that the Church teaches that no-one knows what happens after death however the Church believes that we are given a second chance after death - even, if in life, a person hasn't led a good life or had a life not operating within love i.e someone like Adolf Hitler. Frankly i don't see what's wrong with that - but obviously I think you do.

My initial reposnse was to give comfort and hope to froggy who lost her cousin and my posts have been made to show that God is all compassionate. However I do believe that we have to account for the things we've done wrong - even though we are forgiven (even after death) if we are sorry.

Apologies, Happygirl. My words were a bit quick off the draw there, as I didn't mean to point to Catholicism at all, but the general principle of "hell" as a concept to control people by. In the past, the threat of hell was certainly used by the Catholic Church, but these days I'd say you hear the heck of a lot more about "hell" and "the devil" from, of course, Protestant fundamentalists or born-agains.

V

V – I just wanted to say that I know that perhaps you made a throwaway remark about the Pope and hell. I wasn’t initially going to make any comment as I felt it was going "off topic" and this thread was started by someone wondering about a cousin who had passed away. I did eventually answer your remark because I felt that other readers may get the wrong impression of Catholicism.

Froggy started this thread due to the fact that a cousin had died after a difficult life. So many posters on this thread have provided comforting replies about a compassionate God from both their Christian and non-Christian backgrounds. I gave my response to froggy to hopefully give hope and comfort. From a personal perspective – it’s not the right thread to discuss what others have to say - when that’s all they’ve done is try to provide comfort to another person. There are posts on here which I may disagree with – but it’s not for me to tell them that they are wrong or that I don’t think that what they’ve said is right.

What I’m saying is – is that I’m happy to discuss faith matters on another thread but not on this one. I’m politely asking any poster who wishes to discuss the rights/wrongs of any answers on this thread to "count me out" - as I personally feel it’s inappropriate.

Thanks.:)