Do you believe in God?

Should a brain surgeon have had to have undergone brain surgery?

Yes, people may expect that all priests, vicars (etc.) would be believers in the god(s) of their church, but in truth, what is it their job to do? They are there to provide the teachings of the church and allow people to find their own connection to 'god'. The teachings themselves of most religious texts don't require an actual belief in some god or other, they are typically moral teachings about living life in the way that the perceived god would wish, and about cultivating a mind set to live the best one can live.

I would say that I don't believe in 'God' in the typical christian sense, as in there being some other supreme entity out there looking down on me, so typically I would call myself an Atheist. That doesn't mean that I haven't studied religious and philosophilcal texts of various religions and philosophies, and I can see a) a large crossover and commonality between the various ones, and b) that many of the teachings are illustrative of a way of living a 'good life' and c) they teach a way of understanding one's Self, which in some people's eyes is referred to as becoming Enlightened, or finding 'God' within.

A priest/vicar etc. isn't someone who is going to give God to people, and they cannot impart Enlightenment on people, they can only provide the teachings and wisdom from their own experience and knowledge of the texts, and allow people to find God themselves, whatever that may mean to them. The churches are properly intended to be a common place where people seeking the same wisdom can congregate.

Commonly, in churches, we do see where power and ego has taken over, and people are expected to blindly believe in what they are told by the church authority, and in some cases to actually 'fear' god as if it is some other entity that will punish them. This is not what I would consider to be the truth behind religious and philosophical texts, or how they were intended to be passed to others, but rather has been corrupted purely for the ego, power and control it can give... no better than skilled advertisers or salespeople getting you to buy something you don't need, as it's purely for their own benefit.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Should a brain surgeon have had to have undergone brain surgery?

Yes, people may expect that all priests, vicars (etc.) would be believers in the god(s) of their church, but in truth, what is it their job to do? They are there to provide the teachings of the church and allow people to find their own connection to 'god'. The teachings themselves of most religious texts don't require an actual belief in some god or other, they are typically moral teachings about living life in the way that the perceived god would wish, and about cultivating a mind set to live the best one can live.

I would say that I don't believe in 'God' in the typical christian sense, as in there being some other supreme entity out there looking down on me, so typically I would call myself an Atheist. That doesn't mean that I haven't studied religious and philosophilcal texts of various religions and philosophies, and I can see a) a large crossover and commonality between the various ones, and b) that many of the teachings are illustrative of a way of living a 'good life' and c) they teach a way of understanding one's Self, which in some people's eyes is referred to as becoming Enlightened, or finding 'God' within.

A priest/vicar etc. isn't someone who is going to give God to people, and they cannot impart Enlightenment on people, they can only provide the teachings and wisdom from their own experience and knowledge of the texts, and allow people to find God themselves, whatever that may mean to them. The churches are properly intended to be a common place where people seeking the same wisdom can congregate.

Commonly, in churches, we do see where power and ego has taken over, and people are expected to blindly believe in what they are told by the church authority, and in some cases to actually 'fear' god as if it is some other entity that will punish them. This is not what I would consider to be the truth behind religious and philosophical texts, or how they were intended to be passed to others, but rather has been corrupted purely for the ego, power and control it can give... no better than skilled advertisers or salespeople getting you to buy something you don't need, as it's purely for their own benefit.

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Hi
and thank you for replying
I'd probably agree with you that churches are really more to teach how to live morally, and love their neighbor.

I suppose I just fall in with the old belief, that a priest would automatically believe in God, or else he wouldn't be there, churches priest and God, go together in my mind..
.you say you would probably class yourself as an atheist, and that you don't fall in to the Christian sense of belief ( I believe this is). Good!

I do not believe that they teach all the truth as God intended, in fact I know they don't.
I agree that they should teach that we should live together in harmony, and not benefit from someone else's downfall.
It is said "Love thy neighbor as thyself"if we follow these words I believe we are pleasing to God, whether you believe in Him or not.

You say where people can congregate, I believe that this is the attraction of Homogeneous species, one of the laws of Creation, such as drinkers to drinkers, smokers have fellow feelings etc.
you say you have studied a great deal, which is good, but I believe that many of the churches, and of the Inquisition, put a lot of people of from seeking for something beyond the Earth because of the fear they've put into people, having people murdered in the name of God, praying out loud to drown the screans of people that were screaming in pain from being tortured..

I also believe that the majority of people that attend churches are suppose to believe in blind faith, which I also believe to be wrong, as God wants free thinkers not church slaves..
you also say (but rather has been corrupted purely for the ego, power and control it can give) this I agree, even at the time of Jesus they had him murdered, because he didn't fall in with their teaching and interfered with in their power and money making little else.

Peace and light
Peter.

God wants free thinkers not church slaves..

What is your evidence?

Hello Peter - welcome to HP!

I more than "believe" in God, I am as sure of the existence of Goodness, of Love, of Life, of Truth, of Spirit, of the one divine Mind he Source of all intellegence, as I am of my own existence - in fact, could we have sunbeams without the sun?

I have had countless healings through prayer all through my life, plus protection, guidance, supply, companionship etc. all through an understanding of what God is and what our relationship to Him/her is.

Recently I was told of a priest that came on television and was I believe retiring, but he never believed in God it was just a job.
I was amazed that a person could take on such a position and not to believe in God.

How could a person do a job without believing in what he did or preached, to people that may of came to him for enlightenment of the Creator.

surely he should not have been in the position he was in!

It must have been the same man I heard on the radio. I too thought it was very strange!

Blessings,

Judy

What is your evidence?

Hi
I am sure, my belief is that the interpretations in the Bible made why so many religions, and yet there is only one God, then why so many religions that all preach to have the truth?

I have been to alpha courses, to find seekers, and expected to have free opinion and open discussions, yet when I went there everything was laid out and you had to believe what was said or else you weren't welcome, I was even guarded to make sure I never put my opinion forward.

I believe God wanted us to sense things intuitively, as I believe how He also talks to us not in blind faith, of the other ways people see things and interpret them, we should become free thinkers not puppets.

Peace and light
Peter

Hello Peter - welcome to HP!

I more than "believe" in God, I am as sure of the existence of Goodness, of Love, of Life, of Truth, of Spirit, of the one divine Mind he Source of all intellegence, as I am of my own existence - in fact, could we have sunbeams without the sun?

I have had countless healings through prayer all through my life, plus protection, guidance, supply, companionship etc. all through an understanding of what God is and what our relationship to Him/her is.

It must have been the same man I heard on the radio. I too thought it was very strange!

Blessings,

Judy

Hi and thank you for the warm welcome

The lovely to hear from someone who believes to a similar degree that you do yourself, all energies healing come, from the Creator, we just need to open up to them!

How did we come here, I keep asking the disbelievers,.

Like yourself I believe in the Creator as much as my own body being upon this earth, or having a family as I do.

Yes it was a good possibility of being the same person on the radio, I was shocked, to hear such a person held a position of a servant that was to enlighten people of the knowledge of God, which is one reason why I have such a low opinion of the churches, we need a medium to talk to the dead, but we do not need a church to talk to God.

We are past the introductions of the knowledge that we both believe in God, do you believe that God spoke to us in other ways other than through the Bible?

Peace and Light
Peter

How did we come here, I keep asking the disbelievers,.

One could ask the same of believers.

Neither party would be able to give a proven answer.

One could ask the same of believers.

Neither party would be able to give a proven answer.

No probably would not because you cannot put Creation in a test tube or even the knowledge of God, we have a shut our self's off for so long from the knowledge and guidance from God, it is more difficult now to find our way back.

We need God, God does not need us, as I believe some people are under the impression, hopefully as you said previously if we live properly we are living as we should without harming other people.

Peace and light
Peter

I am sure, my belief is that the interpretations in the Bible made why so many religions, and yet there is only one God, then why so many religions that all preach to have the truth?

But that “there is only one God” is also your opinion. To hear it from you is no different than to hear it from an Alpha course. Everyone has their own opinion, you , me, Alpha course people. I have my own experiences to back me up. Alpha course people have the Bible. I was simply asking what your evidence is.
You say,

I believe God wanted us to sense things intuitively, as I believe how He also talks to us not in blind faith, of the other ways people see things and interpret them, we should become free thinkers not puppets.

Why do you believe this?

We need God, God does not need us

Hello Peter
Welcome:)

I like some of your thoughts and view on god.

I grew up in a strong christian family. at the age of 12 I read the new testament through twice and thought it was a wonderful book. I read through the bible but struggled with the comparison with the old and new testament. However it was when I had the thought about how sinners would be treated and about the commandments to be obeys that caused a change in my belief. I mean sinners for example for just such small things like thinking or speaking wrongly I expect everyone does each day. I felt they were such a suppression in todays society.

I thought how can an all loving god speak about his children in this way? to talk about punishment? when you mentioned " god does not need us" I agree and feel in a way enforces my new direction. I dont know why I should need a non loving god? I cannot find a reason.

There was an element of feeling I was cheated,mis lead, and what I felt an annoyance of being lied to through all my upbringing about a picture of god.

Today I remain 'neutural' not a believer as I used to be, an element is still there but expect it will be from conditioning. but still open to what life brings me with a view to question anything that comes to me as claiming to be connected or is an element of some form to god.

I have met leaders of god in churches whom by their character does not set a representation to keeping in with the church as a good faith. but seemed as just the way the job goes.

In my view I felt the image of god serves people for a time that is needed for them in their lives, maybe that was the case for me?, once that time has healed for whatever purpose , then the value of a god to them doesnt seem as needy anymore.
People created a god because they needed one.

.:)

Blessings

Sacrel

But that “there is only one God” is also your opinion.

Hi Crowan,

I hope you don't mind me butting in on Peter's answer, but I just wanted to share. I think it all comes down to what we perceive God to be. That is where the many opinions come in.

However, if you understand God (another word for Good) to be a universal divine Principle that is absolute Truth, that lifts it out and oabove human and religious opinions.

I love these words of Mary Baker Eddy's

God
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

The Truth I’m talking about is the absolute Truth that is spiritual, like 2+2=4, which never began, will never change and will never end. In other words, something that is eternal and infinite. To me, Life is God and God is Life. Love is God and God is Love. Truth is God and God is Truth. Immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.

Take those words of Eddy’s above: They can also be put into these other terms:

Life
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

Love
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

Truth
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

But I also believe Jesus when he said “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32) – he understood the universal laws of the universe and was able to demonstrate his complete control of all the limitations of matter. To me, vague theorising isn’t enough – I have to have proof.

I will let my friend Tony say the rest as I agree with every word he has written. He is a student and practitioner of Christian Science. (He gave me permission to share this)

I think that there is an absolute truth, and I believe that absolute truth is God, good. I also follow a religious walk devoted to discerning, uncovering, and even demonstrating that Truth (with a capital "T") in healing. However, I genuinely respect the spiritual walk that others are taking in their own search for Truth, and I have found that I can learn from believers of other faiths and of none, as well as from literature and art.

I also respect those who conscientiously believe that there is no absolute truth, and I share their concerns about the attitudes of absolutists who are dogmatic in preaching that only their way has any truth to it. I don't think that the problem is with Truth being absolute, though. I think the problem arises when a denomination thinks it IS that Truth - rather than being a lens through which that Truth can be viewed - or that it has a monopoly on Truth.

Truth, to be Truth, has to be universal. Can you imagine if the laws of gravity applied only in one location? Or if you were only able to benefit from them if you happen to be a paid-up member of a particular gravity-believers club? Gravity-believers might feel that they can do a better job of harnessing the laws of gravity in their own lives and for the common good, because they are more focused on understanding those laws and are in discussion with others who have already proved their many wonderful applications. They can never, however, have more access to those laws than other believers or even non-believers.

So it is, I feel, with God's goodness. It is available impartially for all and it can, and does, work through all people - whatever denominational label we wear, or even if we shun all such labels, or consider ourselves humanists, agnostics, and atheists.

Tony Lobl

I thought how can an all loving god speak about his children in this way? to talk about punishment? when you mentioned " god does not need us" I agree and feel in a way enforces my new direction. I dont know why I should need a non loving god? I cannot find a reason.

There was an element of feeling I was cheated,mis lead, and what I felt an annoyance of being lied to through all my upbringing about a picture of god.

Today I remain 'neutural' not a believer as I used to be, an element is still there but expect it will be from conditioning. but still open to what life brings me with a view to question anything that comes to me as claiming to be connected or is an element of some form to god.
l

Hi Sacrel,

Now I'm butting in on your post to Peter! I was very moved by your account and totally understand where you're coming from. It reminded me of this healing of a tumour and the change of thought that led up to it:

[url]MY JOURNEY FROM 'TERMINAL' TO JOYFUL AND HEALTHY*/*Christian Science Sentinel[/url]

The author had been diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumor, and told she had two months to live and her marriage was on the rocks. [In fact, her husband left her - kind of him when she was dying!] She also suffered from chronic depression. She'd been raised in a devout Christian family, but her childhood had not been happy.

“I believed that God was going to "get me," if my daddy didn't first. Love and God were just empty words to me in a religious climate where the emphasis was on hellfire and brimstone.”

But then she started questioning. Though at that time she didn’t feel she deserved a different verdict from the diagnosis, she rebelled against the idea that a loving God could deliberately deprive two little boys of their mother. She finally concluded that it was impossible for God to be so cruel to two innocent children.

“One day, I finally came to an incredible place of peace. Although I still wasn’t sure that I knew who God was, I could feel this presence with me, and I somehow knew that my boys were going to be fine, whatever happened to me….

As I lay there, I thought about God. Was He kind and loving? Did He have something to do with this peace that I’d found about leaving my boys? Then the most revolutionary (and funny) thought came. All those years in Sunday School had taught me my Bible pretty well. I remembered that in the Old Testament there was all this talk about smiting—the Israelites smiting so and so, and being smitten by so and so. But now, I knew, God wasn’t “up there” with a big “smite button,” and He would never say that today was my day to be the one who gets the smiting! It sounded so crazy that I laughed out loud. At that moment I knew that there was an answer for me—and that it would be a spiritual answer.”

It's that feeling of indescribable peace that comes just before a spiritual healing that always makes me know and feel the presence of God, infinite Love. And to me, it's all about Love, not wrath, punishment and hell.

There are many accounts from people who have had near death experiences of seeing individuals in "hell" but it is a hell of their own making and exists only in their own consciousness, but in all the accounts I've read, there is a light (the Christ) right next to them, but they are so obsessed with their own hatred, cravings or misery, that they don't see it or reach out for it. I've also read accounts which say that people on the other side actually experience the pain they have caused others and that makes perfect sense to me, as the way that evil is destroyed is by destroying itself - through suffering.

I've just done an edit to add that re: the Old Testament punishments - you know it was written thousands of years ago and by many different men, of varying degrees of spiritual understanding (no, I don't believe that God dictated every word of the Bible!) In ancient days, men might see a bolt of lightning strike a village and kill innocent children, but they didn't understand how nature works and the explanation they came up with was that the villagers must have sinned and were being punished. This was passed down orally from generation to generation. But there are many sublime passages of inspiration and revelation in the Hebrew Scriptures, plus incidents of the superiority of Spirit over matter, so don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

Love and peace,

Judy

Hi Peter,

Now I've finally got round to answering you! 😉

do you believe that God spoke to us in other ways other than through the Bible?

Absolutely, except that i would say "speaks" rather than "spoke"!

Why should inspiration and revelation just stop?

Love and peace,

Judy

Truth

Hi Crowan,

I hope you don't mind me butting in on Peter's answer, but I just wanted to share. I think it all comes down to what we perceive God to be. That is where the many opinions come in.

However, if you understand God (another word for Good) to be a universal divine Principle that is absolute Truth, that lifts it out and oabove human and religious opinions.

I love these words of Mary Baker Eddy's

God
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

The Truth I’m talking about is the absolute Truth that is spiritual, like 2+2=4, which never began, will never change and will never end. In other words, something that is eternal and infinite. To me, Life is God and God is Life. Love is God and God is Love. Truth is God and God is Truth. Immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.

Take those words of Eddy’s above: They can also be put into these other terms:

Life
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

Love
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

Truth
is universal;
confined to no spot,
defined by no dogma,
appropriated by no sect.

But I also believe Jesus when he said “Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.” (John 8:32) – he understood the universal laws of the universe and was able to demonstrate his complete control of all the limitations of matter. To me, vague theorising isn’t enough – I have to have proof.

I will let my friend Tony say the rest as I agree with every word he has written. He is a student and practitioner of Christian Science. (He gave me permission to share this)

Hi
please don't worry about butting in on the discussion, I intend to draw as many people as possible into it, I am very pleased that you have joined and are giving opinions that are a very valid, I have enclosed a passage on "What Is Truth", this is not my own work but I would love you to read it and pass comment on it.
I also believe God to be an Eternal and also Truth, in the divine Realm I do believe they' know anything but the truth, and to experience lies, an envoy from the Light has to come to the earth before they would know what a lie is.

Question: What is Truth?

Answer: Truth is the Eternal-Unchangeable! Which never changes in its form, but is as it has been eternally and will ever remain, as it is now. Which can therefore never be subjected to any development either, because it has been perfect from the very beginning. Truth is real, it is “being”! Only being is true life. The entire Universe is “supported” by this Truth! –

Therefore only that which issues from the Truth is really living; everything else is subject to transformation through death. For this reason only that which issues from the Truth will alone continue to exist, and everything else will perish. Finally nothing will remain in existence but the Word of the Lord, which issues from the Light and from the Truth, and can only be brought by Messengers of God, who themselves stand in the Light and the Truth, who are thus really alive within themselves. No human spirit, no spirit in the beyond, is in a position to do this. There is no possibility whatsoever for it to do so. For this reason those things thought out by the human mind and recognised by the human spirit can never bear genuine life within them. They remain theories and recognitions, which lack the power of the Living Truth.

To awaken to life through the Word means: To awaken to the recognition of the Truth! As a sleeping person can be awakened to the day, so one who is spiritually dead is awakened to the recognition of the Truth through the Living Word. However, just as he who has been awakened from sleep to the day can never become the day itself, so also the one awakened from spiritual death to the Living Truth will not himself as the same time thereby become Life! He will only have his eyes opened for the recognition of this Life. He can never himself become Life or Truth, but only wander on their paths! He becomes one raised from the dead.

Here, too, the Word of Christ is also to be applied: “Let the dead bury the dead!” That means: Let the many people who wish to be leaders and teachers go on teaching those who absolutely want to listen to them, and who thus systematically close themselves to the Living Word. Let these dead leaders with their dead words quietly bury their deadlisteners for ever, and therewith exclude them from the possibility of an awakening, But you who are seriously seeking, do not listen to these!

This applies not only to the many sects and societies, but also to the false dogmas of all the great religions. At present no congregation follows the actual true path. Neither zeal nor enthusiasm will help to put right the signposts which, through human cleverness, have often been quite wrongly placed on the right path. Whoever trusts in them will never reach the goal, even with the best inner abilities.

Every one who genuinely exerts himself for it will discover the meaning of what has thereby been said. However, it requires deep reflection, selfless searching. Such is not for those who think they already know, or for superficiality!

Peace and light
Peter

Hi Peter,

Now I've finally got round to answering you! 😉

Absolutely, except that i would say "speaks" rather than "spoke"!

Why should inspiration and revelation just stop?

Love and peace,

Judy

hi
yes my choice of words probably should have been speaks rather than spoke, but I also believe he has spoken to us in other ways, a minor point just words formed by the intellect.
I also do not believe God would not leave us to our own devices without some guidance while on planet Earth, where I believe we experience both good and bad, because this is the only level in the creation were good and bad are side by side all other levels that we'd go to are homogeneous. Like to like.

Peace and light
Peter

Hi Crowan,

I hope you don't mind me butting in on Peter's answer, but I just wanted to share. I think it all comes down to what we perceive God to be. That is where the many opinions come in.
However, if you understand God (another word for Good) to be a universal divine Principle that is absolute Truth, that lifts it out and above human and religious opinions.

Butt in all you like, Principled.
Understanding god to be a universal divine Principle that is absolute truth is, however, still an opinion. And that’s my point really, in what I was writing to PJ7 – some people believe this to be fact. Some don’t. I imagine that a lot of what I believe to be fact, you (and PJ7, and many others) would believe to be opinion. Some opinions are better backed up than others – so I was asking PJ7 in particular where his beliefs came from.
Pricipled, Is your belief that god is “universal divine Principle that is absolute truth” based entirely on Mary Baker Eddy’s writing – and what led you to think she was the one to believe?

I like some of your thoughts and view on god.

I grew up in a strong christian family. at the age of 12 I read the new testament through twice and thought it was a wonderful book. I read through the bible but struggled with the comparison with the old and new testament. However it was when I had the thought about how sinners would be treated and about the commandments to be obeys that caused a change in my belief. I mean sinners for example for just such small things like thinking or speaking wrongly I expect everyone does each day. I felt they were such a suppression in todays society. Sacrel

I am surprised to think this way; sounds like the interpretations of the Commandments come through the churches, how they interpret then and pass it on to us, that we are all going to hell if we don’t go to the church.

I thought how can an all loving god speak about his children in this way? to talk about punishment? Sacrel

You talk of us as his children, we are not, we must progress to be as his children, In the Lord’s Prayer, it starts Our Father who art in Heaven. This means that we ask God to treat us as a father would treat his children.
God is love, and punishment I believe is the wrong word to use, the greatest part of love is severity, to explain this I will try.
Say when we commit a sin, we need to recognise the wrong in it, if we do not recognise that we have sinned, we cannot rise to a higher level in creation as we cannot take this sin with us? Remember Jesus said my Father’s house has many mansions/rooms; these are levels Jesus was referring to where we must go after death of earthly body.
Therefore it is in love not severity; as if we were left to our own devices we would not rise in Creation, but stay on the same level but through learning that we were wrong we can rise to the higher more luminous levels.

when you mentioned " god does not need us" I agree and feel in a way enforces my new direction. I dont know why I should need a non loving god? I cannot find a reason. Sacrel

God is love beyond the human comprehension, God is a loving God, without love they would be no severity.
You talk of your new direction in what way does this go are you still seeking?

There was an element of feeling I was cheated,mis lead, and what I felt an annoyance of being lied to through all my upbringing about a picture of god. Sacrel

You can never form a picture of God, although the imagination does try, I agree and understand you’re being annoyed of being lied to throw your upbringing, but try not to be too hard on the ones that taught you, as they were probably also taught wrongly and passing on what they thought to be the Truth.

Today I remain 'neutural' not a believer as I used to be, an element is still there but expect it will be from conditioning. but still open to what life brings me with a view to question anything that comes to me as claiming to be connected or is an element of some form to god. Sacrel

I can understand you remaining neutral, it sounds as if you still have the yearning for God, this is in built into every body, I believe most people recognise the yearning for God, some try to replace the yearning with material, in this way it never goes away, and after the first million you just want to make another million, and so it goes on never satisfying the yearning.

I have met leaders of god in churches whom by their character does not set a representation to keeping in with the church as a good faith. but seemed as just the way the job goes. Sacrel

I have had several similar experiences, when I was younger I was amazed that a person who I assumed that served God acted in such a way.

In my view I felt the image of god serves people for a time that is needed for them in their lives, maybe that was the case for me?, once that time has healed for whatever purpose , then the value of a god to them doesn’t seem as needy anymore. Sacrel

God is always there, it is said when you are at your lowest, God is closest.
He never leaves you to fall, it is when you realise, if you ever do you would pray for forgiveness of your thinking like this (I do),He always watches over us continuity without a break.

People created a god because they needed one. Sacrel

No God created us, the reasons why and what for are too hard for me to explain here, it is like a jigsaw puzzle there are many pieces and we have some of them and try to form a picture, but we have not got enough pieces to form a picture we need all the pieces, and only God can give them to us.

Peace and Light
Peter

But that “there is only one God” is also your opinion. To hear it from you is no different than to hear it from an Alpha course. Everyone has their own opinion, you , me, Alpha course people. I have my own experiences to back me up. Alpha course people have the Bible. I was simply asking what your evidence is.
You say, Why do you believe this?

because it is true!

Peace and Light
Peter

Hi Peter/Principled.:)

Thank you for your replies, I feel you both have such a profound passion in your faith which is wonderful.:)

I respect there are people who strongly believe in some kind of god in some form or other. In some way I do too, there is no doubt an element through upbringing conditioning which we all bury away.

I have come across people who have claimed to experience god in many ways and commonly using the universe. These people are quite amazing as they shine through their passions.

Ok rant on :rolleyes: How do we know? Some say because of the inner voice? How we know it is not our own consciousness, our thoughts, our own mind that speaks to us mistakenly taking the connection from god, is there no other frame of reference to compare to conclude that what seemed to be felt as god is correct?.

If we say ‘I just know’ is it possible there will be somewhere within to be an internal question of your own reality? which we choose not to face that which could be hidden from consciousness which asks ‘Ah! But what is it truly that you know? How do you know for sure? You cannot! If you do then prove it!’

People find signs in everyday life? Relating to a sign from god!. For example some say they know for instance coming across a feather on the floor is a sign from an angel? We read books and preach from what is learned from that book. How do you know what’s within is true? Whoever wrote the book where did they get the information to which they thought was a true source! Taking this further from the source of the thought even that person could not be certain as to where an idea came from!.

Maybe once we become more believable in our abilities life changes, we may believe some external source or the universe has guided us or god has brought blessings upon our lives for these life changes! Therefore we end up putting to one side our own abilities.

I wonder is it not the thought that as humans became aware of their existence they became fearful from a thought that one day they will no longer live. The thought of one day not existing seemed so deeply affecting that humans instantly created within the thought of an external protector i.e. god. In order to find some form of relief that they will be saved and continue to live on in some form. Some say it is the created ego seeking answers?

Have we given our lives away to religion? To something we may see as saving us from an eternal death in the belief of a form of god?. Is it possible humans need ‘something’ in order to believe they continue forever.

The question in the end which I feel that cannot be answered by any person on the earth, past and present is that ‘no one knows’ No matter what status a person claims in life is it possible that in the end they still suffer the hidden silent voice that says’ but you don’t know, as distressing it may seem and cannot prove it’. Is this the truth? Is this a pain we all wish not to face? Is this belief so crushing we choose to ignore? Is this why we needed to create such a most powerful image of god? To save us from this reality! This thought! Or maybe not!

Yet we all continue to live as we do, believe in what we all believe, live the ways in which we choose as I myself no different. Is it possible the human race needs to be distracted from the reality with which our busy world shows. Maybe the person who took on a position within a church doesn’t believe in god? Maybe they are looking for salvation. To somehow find god, to be saved, to find meaning in life and to be distracted from the silent little voice ‘you cannot know! Prove it!’. How truthful this may feel!
Even as we continue to discuss god, in our answers and thoughts must come from somewhere, to try to prove our beliefs, to somehow prove in any form god exists, to show our belief is the way.

Thinking at this point I believe people search for something in life but does not know what? As each path and avenue is explored, something new is found, to an end finding that what they thought seemed as truth was not, that something which was once looked upon as truth loses its meaning in a person’s life, the person throws their bag over their shoulder and begins a new search. The drive for answers. And IF we found the answer, we would even then still question its truth and validity, because we don’t know what it is we look for ?,but look we must.:rolleyes: Ok rant over 🙂


But seriously I thought to post an idea of the theme of my reply. To put a thought in.Hope everyone gets my drift.
I have walked many searches. And still continue to I expect as so many others. In the end I found that in all my searching to date what I find is myself and each other.:) this has brought a sense of peace and contentment. ' which I cannot express':rolleyes:

Blessings

Sacrel:nature-smiley-008:

Truth

Hi Peter/Principled.:)

Thank you for your replies, I feel you both have such a profound passion in your faith which is wonderful.:)

I respect there are people who strongly believe in some kind of god in some form or other. In some way I do too, there is no doubt an element through upbringing conditioning which we all bury away.

I have come across people who have claimed to experience god in many ways and commonly using the universe. These people are quite amazing as they shine through their passions.

Ok rant on :rolleyes: How do we know? Some say because of the inner voice? How we know it is not our own consciousness, our thoughts, our own mind that speaks to us mistakenly taking the connection from god, is there no other frame of reference to compare to conclude that what seemed to be felt as god is correct?.

If we say ‘I just know’ is it possible there will be somewhere within to be an internal question of your own reality? which we choose not to face that which could be hidden from consciousness which asks ‘Ah! But what is it truly that you know? How do you know for sure? You cannot! If you do then prove it!’

People find signs in everyday life? Relating to a sign from god!. For example some say they know for instance coming across a feather on the floor is a sign from an angel? We read books and preach from what is learned from that book. How do you know what’s within is true? Whoever wrote the book where did they get the information to which they thought was a true source! Taking this further from the source of the thought even that person could not be certain as to where an idea came from!.

Maybe once we become more believable in our abilities life changes, we may believe some external source or the universe has guided us or god has brought blessings upon our lives for these life changes! Therefore we end up putting to one side our own abilities.

I wonder is it not the thought that as humans became aware of their existence they became fearful from a thought that one day they will no longer live. The thought of one day not existing seemed so deeply affecting that humans instantly created within the thought of an external protector i.e. god. In order to find some form of relief that they will be saved and continue to live on in some form. Some say it is the created ego seeking answers?

Have we given our lives away to religion? To something we may see as saving us from an eternal death in the belief of a form of god?. Is it possible humans need ‘something’ in order to believe they continue forever.

The question in the end which I feel that cannot be answered by any person on the earth, past and present is that ‘no one knows’ No matter what status a person claims in life is it possible that in the end they still suffer the hidden silent voice that says’ but you don’t know, as distressing it may seem and cannot prove it’. Is this the truth? Is this a pain we all wish not to face? Is this belief so crushing we choose to ignore? Is this why we needed to create such a most powerful image of god? To save us from this reality! This thought! Or maybe not!

Yet we all continue to live as we do, believe in what we all believe, live the ways in which we choose as I myself no different. Is it possible the human race needs to be distracted from the reality with which our busy world shows. Maybe the person who took on a position within a church doesn’t believe in god? Maybe they are looking for salvation. To somehow find god, to be saved, to find meaning in life and to be distracted from the silent little voice ‘you cannot know! Prove it!’. How truthful this may feel!
Even as we continue to discuss god, in our answers and thoughts must come from somewhere, to try to prove our beliefs, to somehow prove in any form god exists, to show our belief is the way.

Thinking at this point I believe people search for something in life but does not know what? As each path and avenue is explored, something new is found, to an end finding that what they thought seemed as truth was not, that something which was once looked upon as truth loses its meaning in a person’s life, the person throws their bag over their shoulder and begins a new search. The drive for answers. And IF we found the answer, we would even then still question its truth and validity, because we don’t know what it is we look for ?,but look we must.:rolleyes: Ok rant over 🙂


But seriously I thought to post an idea of the theme of my reply. To put a thought in.Hope everyone gets my drift.
I have walked many searches. And still continue to I expect as so many others. In the end I found that in all my searching to date what I find is myself and each other.:) this has brought a sense of peace and contentment. ' which I cannot express':rolleyes:

Blessings

Sacrel:nature-smiley-008:

Hi and thank you
for such a lovely reply very explanatory and I shall have to read it again to understand it in its entirety, many years ago I had the urge to awaken, I searched down many passages many churches, many avenues, at last I was led to a healing centre, where I went for spiritual healing, the healer shook my hand, and something passed from me to him, he never told me what it was.
During the session with him he told me of a book, the following day I went to Waterstone's the bookseller and ordered a copy, when I 1st read it, it meant nothing I would have made more sense in reading the newspaper.
I phoned the healer and explained this, he said you need to read it again, you read it too quick. So I read it again and still read it today after many years.

These are the words of the author =

Your salvation now lies in the Word Alone. During the time of Christ on Earth anyone who would receive the word had to come to Him personally.
Now you have the Word in a book "In The Light Of this Truth".
Anyone, no matter how poor he is, can afford it and even if he were to starve himself in order to possess it, he would only gain thereby.

As with a horse you can only lead it to water you cannot make it drink it.

Peace and light
Peter

"As with a horse you can only lead it to water you cannot make it drink it."

Maybe the horse isnt thirsty yet? and when the horse becomes thirsty once he knows before him is water,........ he will drink.:)

Thank you Peter for sharing your experiences. Reading your reply I could relate with so similar to your path to which I had a similar hungar for years ago. Forgive me for asking but in my way of thinking is it possible the urge for awakening was triggered by some other experience which can be unconciously buried?. Seeking without a knowing is something that I too experienced and I expect a common theme in society.

Is it possible that the passages travelled led you to what you felt was needed?
The book with such wonderful Nice words of the author seem to fill the seeking? so strongly that nothing else seems questionable?. Unless an unforseen future moves onto another path in turn questioning your current belief?.

I say this because I too experienced similar. To date with a contented stillness. even at the mention of a book my first thought was how can the concious mind arrive to put so much faith in a writing from where we are not aware it come from?.

As a person questioning I find with everyones discussion quite intresting.:)

Blessings

Sacrel

In your first post of this thread, you asked,

Do you believe in God if so why, or if not why not?

Why are you asking a question that you will not answer?

because it is true!

not only doesn’t answer my question, but also gives the impression that you only posed the question in the first place rhetorically.
Understand – I am not challenging your belief.( I don’t agree with it but the Christianity forum is scarcely the place for my beliefs) What I am interested in is how you came to those beliefs in the first place.

Hello again Peter and Sacrel,

I Just had a quick check before bed and find all these wonderful posts from both of you. Away all day tomorrow, but hope to come back Sunday evening. I just wanted you to know that I'm not simply ignoring you both. :p

Love and peace,

Judy

I have enclosed a passage on "What Is Truth", this is not my own work but I would love you to read it and pass comment on it.

Ummm..... is that a piece of spirit dictation Peter? It sounds like the sort of writing I've read on this website in the past.

I also believe God to be an Eternal and also Truth, in the divine Realm I do believe they' know anything but the truth, and to experience lies, an envoy from the Light has to come to the earth before they would know what a lie is.

Peter, did you mean to say that in the divine realm they don't know anything but the truth? Yes, I would agree with that. "God is light and in him there is no darkness at all." (I John 1:5)

Blessings,

Judy

Pricipled, Is your belief that god is “universal divine Principle that is absolute truth” based entirely on Mary Baker Eddy’s writing – and what led you to think she was the one to believe?

Hi Crowan - it's the inspired Word of the Bible that is my "sufficient guide to eternal life"

I don't believe in anything that can't be proved - at least to some degree - I don't just take things on faith because other people tell me to! But when people have had profound revelation (which in the case of Mary Baker Eddy unlocked the healing power of the Bible) then why re-invent the wheel?

What I love is that on the very first page of Science and Health she writes:

The time for thinkers has come. Truth, independent of doctrines and time-honored systems, knocks at the portal of humanity. Contentment with the past and the cold conventionality of materialism are crumbling away. Ignorance of God is no longer the stepping-stone to faith.
[DLMURL="http://christianscience.com/read-online/science-and-health/preface#sthash.dla9jngG.dpuf"]Preface*/*Christian Science[/DLMURL]

And further on she writes:

"You can prove for yourself, dear reader, whether the author has given you the correct interpretation of Scripture."

She says, don't take my word for it - prove it for yourself. I and millions of others have proved the worth of her discovery and remarkable insights into the spiritual, practical meaning of the Bible. I am learning every day, but there has never been a question that hasn't been answered, a need that hasn't been met.

I'm sure you've read some of the healings I've had and also experiences of protection and guidance when I worked as cabin crew for an airline. Captains used the word "miracle" more than once and while I think such things are actually divinely natural and according to divine law, it's never the physical healing or the relief of being safe, but the knowledge that God is ever-present and all powerful and the feeling of being enfolded in Love, which to me is most important. And each and every one of us is also enfolded in that Love.

Blessings,

Judy

I'm sure you've read some of the healings I've had and also experiences of protection and guidance when I worked as cabin crew for an airline. Captains used the word "miracle" more than once and while I think such things are actually divinely natural and according to divine law, it's never the physical healing or the relief of being safe, but the knowledge that God is ever-present and all powerful and the feeling of being enfolded in Love, which to me is most important. And each and every one of us is also enfolded in that Love.

Thank you for your reply, Judy. However, I have had (and witnessed other people having) just such miracles through shamanism.
I realise that we are all going to turn to the way that works for us individually, but the same spirits who give me love, wisdom and compassion direct me away from what you understand (or what I understand you to understand) as ‘God’.
I think it’s a shame in a way that this conversation is on the Christianity forum – a question such as the one PJ7 posed (Do you believe in God?) might be easier for those of us who would answer, ‘no’ if it were in the General Faiths forum.
But your answers are always carefully thought out and explained and, therefore, help me to understand your point of view. Thank you for that.

Thank you for your reply, Judy. However, I have had (and witnessed other people having) just such miracles through shamanism.

Well, as my friend Tony said (quoted in an earlier post), there is only one universal Truth. I also quoted where Eddy says that God [Truth] is universal, defined by no dogma, appropriated by no sect, so if that is so, why shouldn't everyone be able to access these spiritual laws? After all, as Tony said, you can use the laws of mathematics whether you're a Muslim or atheist! 😉

I think it’s a shame in a way that this conversation is on the Christianity forum – a question such as the one PJ7 posed (Do you believe in God?) might be easier for those of us who would answer, ‘no’ if it were in the General Faiths forum.

Yes, I agree, but then I didn't start this thread!:p

But your answers are always carefully thought out and explained and, therefore, help me to understand your point of view. Thank you for that.

Thanks for your kind words - I try to respect everyone I speak to and it's nice when it's reciprocated.

Blessings,

Judy

In your first post of this thread, you asked,
Why are you asking a question that you will not answer? not only doesn’t answer my question, but also gives the impression that you only posed the question in the first place rhetorically.
Understand – I am not challenging your belief.( I don’t agree with it but the Christianity forum is scarcely the place for my beliefs) What I am interested in is how you came to those beliefs in the first place.

I will answer

I believe God has spoken to us in many ways, but many people believe the Bible to be the only way!

The Bible I believe was written on a spiritual level not and earthly one and many people believe that there interpretations of the Bible is the only one.

I read another book besides the Bible, which I draw the knowledge of creation from, as I wants believe was promised by the creator.

Peace and light
Peter

What is your evidence?

Hi
In reading the book!

Peace and light
Peter