Something to think about-- I Suppose all Christians and some not Christians, Do believe that Jesus walked on water. My question is- Did His feet get wet or not?
Thank you meta for an interesting question at last, instead of just abstract metaphysical statements (which frankly to me mean nothing without proof).
None of us knows the answer to your question. I wonder whether even Peter did? However, I had a slightly similar experience about 15 years ago in Egypt when the travelling companion I was with was so addicted to ill health and expectant of everything going wrong all the time, that I found myself deeply studying the Bible and Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy instead of guide books! :rolleyes:
Everyone was going down with "Pharaoh's curse" and I succumbed for a day, but was able to carry on with all but one temple visit. That night I saw so clearly that I was not guilty (it was the end of the allegory of the court case in case anyone is familiar with S&H) that in the morning I was completely well (this stomach bug hung about for 3 weeks with all the other people on our trip, despite taking various medications.) My travelling companion went down with it that morning, but I was just filled with love for her and persuaded her to come to the Valley of the Kings, as it was the highlight of our trip and tried to make it easier for her in any way I could.
After we had all been to see the tomb of King Tut. the others collapsed in an air-conditioned restaurant (it was very hot), but I desperately wanted to see 3 very deep tombs which had wonderful wall paintings. I had that feeling of elation and being wrapped in love that comes with a spiritual healing and went down the 3 tombs completely alone. Each time, I floated weightless up the hundreds of steps.
I once had an out of body experience (again following a healing) and though it was not as dramatic as that, I felt it was a glimpse of my immortal, spiritual identity and one-ness with God.
So, my conclusion, based on what I experienced, is that no, Jesus did not get his feet wet, he floated just above the water. But I might be totally wrong!
Love and peace,
Judy
Thank you meta for an interesting question at last, instead of just abstract metaphysical statements (which frankly to me mean nothing without proof).
None of us knows the answer to your question. I wonder whether even Peter did? However, I had a slightly similar experience about 15 years ago in Egypt when the travelling companion I was with was so addicted to ill health and expectant of everything going wrong all the time, that I found myself deeply studying the Bible and Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy instead of guide books! :rolleyes:
Everyone was going down with "Pharaoh's curse" and I succumbed for a day, but was able to carry on with all but one temple visit. That night I saw so clearly that I was not guilty (it was the end of the allegory of the court case in case anyone is familiar with S&H) that in the morning I was completely well (this stomach bug hung about for 3 weeks with all the other people on our trip, despite taking various medications.) My travelling companion went down with it that morning, but I was just filled with love for her and persuaded her to come to the Valley of the Kings, as it was the highlight of our trip and tried to make it easier for her in any way I could.
After we had all been to see the tomb of King Tut. the others collapsed in an air-conditioned restaurant (it was very hot), but I desperately wanted to see 3 very deep tombs which had wonderful wall paintings. I had that feeling of elation and being wrapped in love that comes with a spiritual healing and went down the 3 tombs completely alone. Each time, I floated weightless up the hundreds of steps.
I once had an out of body experience (again following a healing) and though it was not as dramatic as that, I felt it was a glimpse of my immortal, spiritual identity and one-ness with God.
So, my conclusion, based on what I experienced, is that no, Jesus did not get his feet wet, he floated just above the water. But I might be totally wrong!
Love and peace,
Judy
Judy
Thanks for a honest reply, I myself don't think his feet got wet, but I can't prove it, I also can't prove the nature of individuality. or an infinite God. Do you think we shoud stop using those words altogether, and only use words we can prove. In fact I can't think of any word I can prove That why S+H is called the textbook I suppose. I can't even prove my own existance to others. I witnessed many healings, but I can't prove it was God doing it. I knew an atheist who healed himself of cancer. I read some statistics last week about life expectacy among Christians, and surprise, surprise, Christian Scientist were the lowest, and that, I tottaly don't understand. Regards Meta
Do you think we shoud stop using those words altogether, and only use words we can proof. In fact I can't think of any word I can proof.
Let me put it another way meta. Jesus said [COLOR="Purple"]" Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." (Matt 2:20)
Thanks so much for bringing up the supposed statistics without first checking on the facts. :confused: I'm sure no-one else here is interested, but I would hate anyone to read your words and go away with the wrong impression, so here are corrections from The Mother Church in Boston.
The study from the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) purports to compare the proportion of deaths among alumni from Principia College (a college established for Christian Scientists) with deaths among alumni from the University of Kansas. It was published 19 years ago.
A look at the study’s methods and figures by both Christian Scientists and people in the medical community reveals serious distorting factors that directly affected the study’s results. As noted in material provided to reporters who asked the Christian Science church for an assessment of the data,
Quote:
“The distorting factors in the JAMA study are specific and have considerable statistical weight. At the very least, they show the evidence presented in the article to be extremely questionable. Such evidence would not have been acceptable as conclusive if the study dealt with, say, AIDS drugs or causes of cancer, and it really shouldn’t be held to a lower standard in this case.”
What are these factors? For one, the study assumed that University of Kansas alumni for which the University has no current address have, to use the study’s words, “the same mortality rate as their registered classmates of the same sex. The mortality data for the University of Kansas has been adjusted to reflect this assumption.” But, since death is obviously one of the reasons that a school loses track of a graduate, isn’t it more reasonable to assume a greater proportion have died among alumni for which the University has no current record? There were many more missing Kansas alumni than Principia alumni (13% to only 3%), so this factor has tremendous statistical significance. Even a relatively small adjustment of the data to reflect this factor would erase all the differences on which the study’s author based his conclusions. So it seems likely that Principia appears to have a slightly higher death rate not because the rate actually is higher but because its alumni records are more complete than those at the University of Kansas.The study also assumes that all or nearly all Principia graduates remain practicing Christian Scientists—a mistaken premise. Denominational colleges of various stripes discover that their graduates are not an essentially homogeneous group whose members continue to adhere to the particular denomination. Principia is no different. Some graduates who value the education they got at Principia remain active alumni even if they haven’t continued their church commitment in later years. This obviously makes any deductions about health care based on alumni data particularly problematic.
It’s also worth noting that life insurance figures—the most direct evidence on Christian Scientists’ comparative longevity—have shown a somewhat longer life expectancy among Christian Scientists than others. These figures were not considered in the JAMA study.
Such are the flaws in the JAMA study—which, by the way, was authored by a disaffected Christian Scientist, another factor that affects its credibility.
My goodness what a blame I get, typical, They're not my statistics, in fact I don't care about statistics whatsoever. apparently all you don't agree with, you reject as disaffected Christian Scientist. well for your imformation I.m not disaffected. Nothing is closer to my heart than Christian Science. And your statement, no-one is interested of what I write, suggest you speak for all of them. Why don't you just say get of this forum, WE don't need you. At least that be honest, It seems all that offend Boston you defend blindly. I worked as Christian Science nurse in the U.S.A for some years, and I tell you now, It is not all good I saw there. But all of that has nothing to do with CS. it stands apart from Boston and all organized dogma. I,m in Mary Baker Eddy's Church daily.And Christian Science wil still be with humanity, when the Boston Church lie in ruin. Regards Meta
Meta, while you are free to express your views, please respect others in accordance with the language section of the guidelines as yours comes across as confrontational and dismissive to say the least.
On behalf of the Moderating Team,
calla lily
Hi
Just read an interesting article about walking meditation by Thich Nhat Hanh.
The Miracle is Walking on Earth
Walking with ease and with peace of mind on the earth is a wonderful miracle. Some people say that only walking on burning coals or walking on spikes or on water are miracles, but I find that simply walking on the earth is a miracle. Neige Marchand, when translating The Miracle of Mindfulness into French, entitled the book La Miracle, C’est de Marcher sur Terre. I like that title very much.
I thought this was a far more interesting statement, not whether someone 2000 years old walked on water or not. Living in the moment, step by step is the miracle!
The sun has just popped out and I'm going to do this myself - walking meditation.
Best Wishes
RP
Hi
Just read an interesting article about walking meditation by Thich Nhat Hanh.
The Miracle is Walking on Earth
Walking with ease and with peace of mind on the earth is a wonderful miracle. Some people say that only walking on burning coals or walking on spikes or on water are miracles, but I find that simply walking on the earth is a miracle. Neige Marchand, when translating The Miracle of Mindfulness into French, entitled the book La Miracle, C’est de Marcher sur Terre. I like that title very much.I thought this was a far more interesting statement, not whether someone 2000 years old walked on water or not. Living in the moment, step by step is the miracle!
The sun has just popped out and I'm going to do this myself - walking meditation.
Best Wishes
RP
Hi Reiki Pixi That is such a beautiful concept, wowwwwww indeed. Love Meta
Hi Meta
Glad you liked it. I did go for my Sunday morning walk on the cliffs and was mindful of my steps.
Cheers
RP
Meta, while you are free to express your views, please respect others in accordance with the language section of the guidelines as yours comes across as confrontational and dismissive to say the least.
On behalf of the Moderating Team,
calla lily
I was surprised that you highlighted Meta's response as I thought that parts of Principle's response was also rather dismissive.
I've always enjoyed Principle's posts as they are normally uplifting and encouraging.
I am trying to understand Christian Scientists theology especially with regard to healing and if any doubts are expressed I rather they were addressed in a constructive and positive manner rather than defensive.
Regards at all.
Dear Scom,
I’m really sorry that you thought my post above came over as “dismissive”.
Let me try to explain. Paul wrote: “The carnal (fleshly) mind is enmity towards God.” When Jesus was here, his message of salvation enraged that “carnal mind” (I see it as quite impersonal) Men tried to kill him to stop the message spreading.
When Mary Baker Eddy discovered the lost healing element of Christianity, she was mocked, reviled, slandered and persecuted, partly because her ideas were such a challenge to the theology, medicine and science of her day, but mostly because she was a woman in what was very much a man’s world. (You only have to see the hostility towards female clergy in the 21st Century to realise what it must have been like in the 19th towards a woman who dared to interpret the Bible spiritually and who even organised a Church!) This hostility towards the message of Christian Science continues today and the internet in particular is full of falsehoods about it, but they mostly take the form of attacks against Mary Baker Eddy. If I ever see things that I know are untrue, then I usually try to correct them.
Let’s look at what I said above:
Thanks so much for bringing up the supposed statistics without first checking on the facts. :confused: I'm sure no-one else here is interested, but I would hate anyone to read your words and go away with the wrong impression, so here are corrections from The Mother Church in Boston.
First of all, I put the smiley in to show it was tongue-in-cheek, but in all seriousness I do believe that one should never blindly accept what one reads on the internet (in any area) without first checking facts, especially when the result could be harmful.
Where I wrote “I'm sure no-one else here is interested” – I meant that I was sure that no-one else was interested in reading what I was about to copy and paste!! I didn’t mean not interested in what meta was writing, but sadly, he took it that way. Again, I have never suggested that meta was a dissident Christian Scientist – in fact, until this post, I didn’t even realise he was student of Christian Science. I honestly thought he was from one of the New Thought movements who borrow a lot from the writings of Mary Baker Eddy. Why meta reacted the way he did to the explanation from the correction, that the author of the survey was a dissident Christian Scientist I have no idea.
If you wondered about the “ye shall know them by their fruits” go to post 9 onwards on this thread:
When Jesus was asked by the disciples of John the Baptist whether he was the Messiah, he didn’t say yes or no, but he pointed to his works – the fact that the blind see, the lame walk, the dead are raised etc. Also, when Jesus taught, he illustrated what he was saying with parables and of course, proved what he saying with his works!
Mary Baker Eddy included 100 pages of testimonies of healings at the back of Science and Health, sent in by the early readers of the book and also in another of her works, Miscellaneous Writings. She made provision for testimonies to be included in every single Christian Science periodical and for weekly Wednesday testimony meetings. She wrote: “Testimony in regard to the healing of the sick is highly important. ”More than a mere rehearsal of blessings, it scales the pinnacle of praise and illustrates the demonstration of Christ, “who healeth all thy diseases.” (Ps 103:3)(Church Manual)
I would so love to hear testimonies from others here – of whatever denomination, religion, faith, philosophy etc. I really would.
I will certainly take on board what you said about posts should be constructive and positive. Thanks Scom.
Love and peace,
Judy
I was surprised that you highlighted Meta's response as I thought that parts of Principle's response was also rather dismissive.
Hmm, I've re-read what was posted above and the only dismissive thing about Judy's post is that she is dismissing what appears to have been posted as a statement of fact without any foundation or evidence to back it up, and then she has supplied the relevant evidence to show why. That IMHO, is part of the discussion. However, if you disagree with the moderating team it is probably best you contact them directly rather than post about it on the forums as it simply detracts from the topic of discussion. 😉
Talking of which....
Something to think about-- I Suppose all Christians and some not Christians, Do believe that Jesus walked on water. My question is- Did His feet get wet or not?
I think he did, the proof is right here...
Seriously though...
I think this comes down (once again) to whether you take the words of the bible literally or whether you look at what the story is illustrating metaphorically.
Often in the present day we forget what life would have been like back in the days when such texts were written, so misinterpretation is so easy to do.
At the time of the texts, the sea was a chaotic monster that could draw you away from the land and take you off the end of the world, never to be seen again. It was something to fear, and as such, it was a symbol of fear. Travelling on the water was dangerous, but also necessary.
When Jesus left the disciples to cross the water, he, as the manifestation of God in their eyes, would still have been with them. When storms came and they found themselves in fear of their lives, it was the teachings of Jesus that came to them, from across the water where Jesus had remained. These teachings no doubt included having faith in God to protect them and it was this faith that could bring them out of their fear and into the present moment so that they could do what was necessary to act in the moment rather than re-act based on the fears. Depending on how literally you want to interpret the story, you could say that perhaps Peter was the one who had this realisation to become present and let the fear go; this realisation that only by acting and remaining present would they be able to act and save themselves from the chaos of the water. This is perhaps why Peter was also seen to "walk on water" like Jesus. The mentioning of him sometimes sinking, could simply be due to the moments where he lost himself from the present moment and started slipping back into fear, but then managing to get his faith back and become present once again.
It was this faith and becoming present that allowed them to save themselves.
Jesus may not have been physically with them, but he was with them in the teachings of wisdom that he had given them.
This is just my own interpretation of the story and I know there are many others out there, some more literal than others.
Was it a miracle? In a sense, yes. To people who were used to living in fear, it would be miraculous that their faith in the teachings of Jesus' wise knowledge had saved them. Of course they would be thankful for what had happened and want to keep hold of and share these miracles.
Should it be taken literally that Jesus walked on water. IMHO, no.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Hi Judy
I said parts of your post, not all the post.
It was the bit about " nobody being interested " that was taken
as a comment, regarding Meta's opinion. I must have had the wrong glasses on, as others appear to have read it as you intended.
Regards