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The Cornish Language

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lightwinds
Posts: 8327
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(@lightwinds)
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'Deth da, Da yu genef dha weles'....The ancient Celtic language of Cornwall was reportedly last spoken by Dolly Pentreath of Mousehole who died in 1777. There is also however, a tombstone at Zennor churchyard to John Davey of Boswednack (1812-1891), 'the last to possess any traditional considerable knowledge of the Cornish Language'. He sang traditional songs and could converse quite fluently. Why did it die out? While Cornwall remained largely untouched by the outside world the language remained intact. Some historians point to the failed 'Cornish Rebellion of 1497' - led by Michael Joseph 'An Gof' (the Smith) and Thomas Flamank - and the 'Prayer Book Rebellion' of 1549 as two major turning point in the demise of Cornish. The first rebellion was caused by excessive taxes being levied on Cornwall to finance King Henry VII's war with Scotland. The second rebellion is centred on the refusal to allow church services to be spoken in Cornish by the powers in London. There has however been quite a resurgence in interest since 1900 and some say that the language never actually died.

Modern routes to the Cornish Language can be found at Blas Kernewek - A Taste of Cornish from BBC Cornwall and Agan Tavas. The word structure is quite different to that of English. When English superceded Cornish as the principal language some time in the 16th century, the people spoke the new language as foreigners. English words were used but in a Cornish framework: similar to the word order encountered in German. Cornish folk are more likely to say "Going Truro Are 'ee ?" rather than "Are you going to Truro ?". Un-informed people might think that this is 'bad' English grammar, it is in fact 'good' Cornish grammar!

Other relics include the adding of 'do' before the verb, as in "They do go" and "I did walk" especially around the Lizard, and 'weem' and 'youm'- instead of 'we' and 'you'in Mid Cornwall, although the entymology of these latter words are uncertain. For the visitor, place-names and some surnames give an insight into the ancient language very quickly. For instance, Hayle - Hayl - Estuary; Carnkie - Carn-Ky - Dog Hill; Mevagissey - (St.)Meva hag(St.)Issey - from (St.) Meva and (St.) Issey; Marazion - Marghas Yow (Thursday Market); Camborne - Kamm-Bron - Crooked Hill; Redruth - Ryd Ruth - River Red; Pednandrea (Redruth)- Pedn-an-Drea - Head of the town; Pedn-men-an-mere - Pedn-mên-an-mere - Rocky headland by the sea; Trenoweth - Tre-noweth - New Homestead; Penzance - Pen-Sans - Holy Headland; Porthpean - Porth Byghan - Little Cove; Port Quin - Porth Gwyn - White Cove; Polglase - Pol-Glas - Blue Pool; Chegwin - Chy Gwin - White House; Poldhu - Pol-Du - Black Pool; Maenporth - Mên Porth - Rocky Cove; (The) Manacles - Mên Eglos - (The) Church Rocks and Kynance - Ky Nans - Dog Valley? Of course the very many places named after the Celtic Saints of Ireland, Wales and Brittany such as St. Ives (Porth Ia) after St.Ia; St. Day (Ste. Dé); Gwithian (Ste. Gwithyen); Zennor (St. Senara); Kea (St. Ké); St. Austell (Ste. Austol); St. Mawgan; Paul (Ste. Pol de Leon), Lelant (Lan-Anta) and Gunwalloe after Ste. Winwalloe. Saxon influence in certain areas confuses matters as they added the suffix -ton to the towns and villages, but a little research normally unearths the former name: Helston is Hellys+ton and Launceston is Lan-stefan+ton.

Some Keywords in the Cornish Language, with their Breton Equivalents - kindly supplied by Loic POVY and Gildas CHATAL or Gaelic Equivalents - kindly supplied by Cecil Ward of the Isle of Skye.

English Word
Cornish Translation
Pronounciation
Breton Equivalent
Pronounciation

Cornwall
Kernow
Kerr- Noo
Kernev-Veur
Kerr- Nev-Veeor

Cornish
Kernewek
Kerr-New-ek
Kernevek
Kerr-Nev-ek

Water
Dowr
Dower
Dour
Dour

Beach
Treath
Treth
Traezh
Trezh

Sea
Mor
More
Mor
More

Church
Eglos
Egg-Loss
Ilis
I-Liss

House
Chy
Chee
Ti
Tee

Chapel
Merther
Mert

10 Replies
ro§ie
Posts: 2898
(@roie-2)
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Joined: 21 years ago

RE: The Cornish Language

hi lightwinds,

having spent a bit of time over the years in cornwall (nr the lizard), yes, many of those words are familiar as place names. makes more sense too once you know tre, lan, bose etc etc.

thanks for that... ahhh brought back lots of happy thoughts :). why is it so far, even nowadays!!

funnily enough, my sister recently, sent me details of a holiday cottage, that used to be the one my step aunt and uncle lived in for many many years (rented) and where we spent our holidays as kids. wow... has it changed! from having no bathroom and and outside lavvy (ewww spiders and all!), its looking quite luxurious now.

i have this idea that i'd like to take my dad and sister, ona sort of pilgrimage maybe next year, seeing as dad was going there from when he was 17 or so. its in a prime position though so costs lots, unless we go infebruary or something (lol, yeah right! bleak or what!!).

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lightwinds
Posts: 8327
Topic starter
(@lightwinds)
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Joined: 21 years ago

RE: The Cornish Language

hi rosie, your right seem miles away, but I try to get down that way every year, miss home alot, we use to play on the goonhilly downs near Lizard as kids.
So many memorys:D. Have you ever been to Helston Flora Day?

love and blessings
lightwinds
Wendy x

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ro§ie
Posts: 2898
(@roie-2)
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Joined: 21 years ago

RE: The Cornish Language

hi wendy,

last time i was there, about 2 years or so ago, i stayed in coverack, so had to go over goonhilly all the time. spent most days at kynance, so beautiful and rugged there, although the sea can cut you off!

i actually used to stay at cadgwith, so its good to go back and say hi to the "kids" i played with all those years ago.

never been to the floral dance and hated terry wogan singing it ;). never been to the padstow hobby horse thingie either.

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Posts: 506
(@garthur)
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Joined: 20 years ago

RE: The Cornish Language

Very interesting thread on Cornish language, Wendy!! Got me thinking again and got the itch to go "home".

You may be interested in this link:
[link= http://www.kernewek.org ]www.kernewek.org[/link]

My husband's uncle lives in Kadina - part of the copper triangle in Oz. We think that the Oz part of his family may have actually originated from Cornwall....

As you know, my family comes from Hayle. In fact, as a result of looking for this link to post to you I have come across the person who took the pix and he may well be related to me!! The family name is the same - Hosking. So I'm just about to e-mail him.

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lightwinds
Posts: 8327
Topic starter
(@lightwinds)
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Joined: 21 years ago

RE: The Cornish Language

hi wendy,

last time i was there, about 2 years or so ago, i stayed in coverack, so had to go over goonhilly all the time. spent most days at kynance, so beautiful and rugged there, although the sea can cut you off!

i actually used to stay at cadgwith, so its good to go back and say hi to the "kids" i played with all those years ago.

never been to the floral dance and hated terry wogan singing it . never been to the padstow hobby horse thingie either.

_____________________________

regards
rosie

I love visiting the old haunts when I go home.
Lots of family in Cornwall have moved around abit and some have died. But it great when I bump into old friends and catch up on our lives.
Portleven is a place I use to love when young.

love and blesings
llightwinds
wendy xx

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lightwinds
Posts: 8327
Topic starter
(@lightwinds)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 21 years ago

RE: The Cornish Language

Very interesting thread on Cornish language, Wendy!! Got me thinking again and got the itch to go "home".

You may be interested in this link:

My husband's uncle lives in Kadina - part of the copper triangle in Oz. We think that the Oz part of his family may have actually originated from Cornwall....

As you know, my family comes from Hayle. In fact, as a result of looking for this link to post to you I have come across the person who took the pix and he may well be related to me!! The family name is the same - Hosking. So I'm just about to e-mail him.

_____________________________

There is no way to Happiness.....Happiness is the way.

Thank for the link, it's brilliant to see cornish festivel still kept alive, all that way in Astraila.

how you get on with the email to person?
love and blessings
lightwinds
Wendy x

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Dedwydd
Posts: 591
(@dedwydd)
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Joined: 19 years ago

RE: The Cornish Language

I love Cornwall - I think for many it really does feel like a Spiritual Home - I spent many childhoods there.
Being Welsh I reckonise the similarites in some of the words.

I also have friends living in Mullion - a truly beautiful place.

This link may be of interest to some [link= http://www.robbiewright.com/html/product1.htm ]http://www.robbiewright.com/html/product1.htm[/link]
Robbie Wright has produced a Cornish Language CD - also he does guided mediations etc.

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Posts: 506
(@garthur)
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Joined: 20 years ago

RE: The Cornish Language

Think I must have frightened him off!!!!

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lightwinds
Posts: 8327
Topic starter
(@lightwinds)
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Joined: 21 years ago

RE: The Cornish Language

garthur

Think I must have frightened him off!!!!

:Doh dear.

wendy xx

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(@curnow)
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Joined: 18 years ago

RE: The Cornish Language

Great post lightwinds!

We must keep the Cornish language alive along with Cornwall's unique culture & identity. It appears that the 2011 will not have a 'Cornish' tick-box or a Cornish language tick-box.

An article from the latest Cornish World magazine by Dr Nigel Hicks:

Censuses in the UK are held every 10 years and provide essential information from national to neighbourhood level for government, business and the community.

I suspect most people will be aware that Cornish citizens were permitted to identify themselves as "Cornish” in the last UK population census in 2001. The decision to include a Cornish write-in option was taken following a prolonged campaign by individuals, Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) and public authorities as it could provide useful information regarding the status of the Cornish national minority in the United Kingdom.

One should be mindful of the facts that the decision to collect information, in 2001, on Cornish ethnicity was not publicised and that the authorities gave little information and guidance about the terminology employed in the exercise. Furthermore, those people writing to assert a Cornish ethnicity could only have done so if they denied being British, by ignoring the British option and writing Cornish in a write-in "other” tick-box. It is no wonder then that the results of this census were not as accurate as they might otherwise have been had the census been properly constructed and worded in the first place.

We all know that write-ins and responses to general items in tick-boxes fail to elicit anything like the total numbers of people who would respond to a specifically worded question. It is vital therefore, that subsequent censuses include a dedicated Cornish tick-box so that accurate statistics can be collected.

It would appear that there are no plans to correct this deficiency. Moreover, the Office for National Statistics does not intend to include a Cornish language question in the next census which is somewhat surprising, in view of the fact that the British government is under a legal obligation to the Council of Europe to take resolute action to protect and promote it. It is difficult to envisage how public authorities will be able to fulfil both this legal responsibility under international treaty and their moral duty to the Cornish people, without such a question in the next and subsequent censuses.

The official ONS excuse for these omissions is that there has been insufficient " user demand” for this information. This is a meaningless, unquantifiable response and it has been made even though the two most significant users of Cornish related census information, Cornwall Council and the Government Office for the South West, have both requested a dedicated Cornish tick-box and a specific Cornish language question on the forthcoming Census 2001.

If the Cornish people are to develop their culture, if they are to perform as well as other groups and if the Cornish language is to flourish and to live up to its status as an official language of the United Kingdom, it is essential that the relevant public authorities can obtain accurate statistical information. Only then will we be sure that services are being provided equitably.

Time is running out but it is not too late to change the ONS's position in regard to these matters. Please address your demands for a dedicated "Cornish” tick-box and a specific Cornish language question in the 2011 and subsequent censuses by sending me a PM or email for the contact details.

EDITED to remove street and email addresses.

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