What do people make of this? I first read about it on my phone news app before it hit tv news and just after shouting at some foxes who were being a nuisance outside my window.
Must admit, it really made me feel nervous... Then my cousin said to me yesterday that she thinks that it's a bit suspicious. She's been a head veterinary nurse for over 15 years and thinks that the attack was probably caused by a family dog which has been hidden, or done away with for fear of the consequences, after that young chap was recently prosecuted for keeping a banned dog which killed his nephew.
Not sure I agree with her on that. As unlikely as a fox attack is, surely it would be hard to cover up if it were actually a dog attack? Bite mark patterns, fur found at the scene, etc.
Assuming it did happen, what do we do with urban foxes? I think foxes are really beautiful animals, but the ones where I live really are an absolute menace. Of course it doesn't help that our local council hasn't brought in wheelie bins, so rubbish collection day usually leaves trails of litter all over our streets.
It's funny how humans complain about 'vermin'. We never consider ourselves 'vermin', do we?
It seems genuine enough to me. Your thread title line into Google revealed that it's all over the newspapers, both here in the UK and overseas as well. If you try that search, you'll get a wide choice of online newspapers, from the 'gutter press' upwards, though all seem to be copies of each other.
Common theme though is that urban foxes are considered to be a major nuisance in some areas, and Hackney seems to be one of them, going by the reports.
Holistic
Lots of people think it was a cover up for a dog attack, the dog would have been destroyed so what a convenient scapegoat lets blame the urban fox, especially considering London is full of them.
The foxes around here have never been a problem, they're beautiful creatures and it will be so sad if a cull goes ahead because of either a made up story 'or' a very, very rare incident.
A vixen was trapped and destroyed in the couples garden the day after the alleged 'fox' attack which will now leave cubs without a mother who will starve to death.
I dunno, surely the neighbours would know if the family had a dog? Imagine the scenario - mother and father totally traumatised by bleeding babies, yet still having the nous to spirit away a family pet. Somehow I think not. What parents would want to keep a dog which had done this to their babies? This smacks of Madeleine all over again....
Edit to ask Sunkiss where she gets her 'lots of people' from?
And another edit to post this link
Yes, I also would like to know who are these 'lots of people'. Could we perhaps have some evidence please, sunkiss.
A vixen was trapped and destroyed in the couples garden the day after the alleged 'fox' attack which will now leave cubs without a mother who will starve to death.
Also, I've seen no reference to the caught fox having been a vixen, but if it was, then it's highly unlikely any cubs would 'starve to death' considering the fox's breeding patterns according to the seasons, because by now they'd be half grown and foraging for themselves. More info for you here:
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.thefoxwebsite.org/ecology/ecologylifecycle.html "> http://www.thefoxwebsite.org/ecology/ecologylifecycle.html
Holistic
Yes, I also would like to know who are these 'lots of people'. Could we perhaps have some evidence please, sunkiss.
Also, I've seen no reference to the caught fox having been a vixen,
Holistic
Although not one of my usual reads, here is an article in the mail. Read the comments after the article and you will see the just how many people think the attack was actually by a relatives dog, I agree. The article also says the fox was a vixen, along with another two the day after the vixen.
I was listening to LBC radio the day after the attack and lots of LOndon residents are up in arms about the possible cull.
Well, Sunkiss, I read the article and I read as many of the comments as I could bear to and I didn't find many who thought that the injuries were caused by a relative's dog. How can you possibly think this? On what evidence?
To go off on a slight tangent I have to say how strange it is that the Daily Mail is never anyone's usual read and yet is quoted so often here on HP. I was surprised though that the article seemed so reasonable, while some of the comments certainly confirmed my long held views about Daily Mail readers.
Lol..what relevance does the daily mail have in all this?! You asked me where I got my information from and I told you.
LOL indeed. You haven't been on HP long enough to know of my well documented prejudice against the Mail and those who read it.
If there was no food and shelter in cities for foxes, they wouldn't thrive. They probably eat rats and pidgeons as well as the rubbish created by humans. And there wouldn't be as many rats and pidgeons if there was no rubbish. It's all of our responsibility to clean up our living environment, but the local authorities also have a role to play. As I said earlier, we don't have wheelie bins in our area, we also have a big Burger King across the road, so there's plenty for the foxes to feed on.
Some areas of London are filthy, smelly, litter-ridden places with abandoned buildings; a perfect haven for foxes. So I would agree that a cull is somewhat futile, as well as something I would feel uncomfortable with.
Before we moved into our house, the elderly lady next door had a problem with foxes. She used to have a shed, which the foxes found a way into and a vixen had her cubs in there. She tried to ring several people: the RSPCA and local council included, and everyone washed their hands of the situation, nobody would help her. She had to wait for the cubs to leave, then have the shed pulled down, that was her only solution.
The foxes here are pretty fearless as they are in many parts of London. My partner used to live in another part of London and a fox came into the property one day - yes, during the day - so it's not unheard of for them to come into houses. He found the fox in one of the rooms and chased it out!
Going back to the Daily Mail, slightly off-topic, but I share Sunanda's opinion and it is for precisely statements like this, taken from the article:
Mother Pauline, 41, smiled as she carried Lola into the family’s £800,000 three-storey Victorian house in Hackney, east London.
It's very, very subtle, but speaks VOLUMES about what the Daily Mail is all about. Another example was when they reported the stabbing of a young Asian woman, and for some reason felt the need to say that the man who found her body was also an Asian man. The Daily Mail is probably the only newspaper that would report the race of a person who finds a dead body! Sorry for going off topic!
The fact that the mother refused an investigation by a wildlife expert to verify her claims speaks volumes.
In this link to the Evening standard, most of the comments after indicate peoples suspicions.
Don't you think it's shameful that so many sit in judgement over this family's tragedy? If it had happened to my children I would be devistated and now there are those who are just stiring it without knowing the facts.
I'm sure the medical services would know if the injuries were consistant with a fox attack or not and would alert the appropriate authorities if needed.
Well there are 10 thousand urban foxes in London and the fox population is becoming unsustainable. Perhaps this is a wake up call that something needs to be done because if rabies get in to this country, we could be heading for a disaster.
Perhaps there should be a little less finger pointing and a bit more love and understanding for a family that has gone through a life shattering experience.
Myarka.
The fact that the mother refused an investigation by a wildlife expert to verify her claims speaks volumes.
In this link to the Evening standard, most of the comments after indicate peoples suspicions.
In your Evening Standard article, Sunkiss, there is this paragraph:
The move follows abuse on internet forums set up by those who believe foxes are suffering unfairly. One site, called “Pauline Koupparis is a lying b****”, has been taken down. On another site, Urban Fox Defender, a user posted: “There's too little evidence of this being a fox attack… it reeks of a constructed hype.”
Are we to add to this internet abuse by casting aspersions on a family we all know NOTHING about? I also would say that 'most' of the comments do not indicate people's suspicions. Some of them do. Talk about a witchhunt. You've got the family tried and convicted already. Let's face it, none of us knows what happened. I have read several letters in the press (I've been trying to remember where but memory loss has set in, I'm afraid) and 'lots' of people have been saying how unafraid the foxes have become in London and how often they are now entering people's homes. They may not attack 'humans' but how human would a baby appear to them?
Let's face it, none of us knows what happened. I have read several letters in the press (I've been trying to remember where but memory loss has set in, I'm afraid) and 'lots' of people have been saying how unafraid the foxes have become in London and how often they are now entering people's homes. They may not attack 'humans' but how human would a baby appear to them?
Foxes are members of the dog family - they are foragers and will take any opportune moment for easy 'pickings', whether they be chickens, rabbits, leverets, lambs, goat kids, eggs, insects or even slugs when desperate for food. Urban foxes remain foragers and many are feeding them which encourages them into people's homes. It may not be reported in the press very often but there is no doubt they are entering homes, just as they do a hen coup - they are quick and sneaky.
Since the advent of wheeliebins their access to food to forage from has become severely limited - mice and rats are not that easy to find in tidy urban gardens. Imagine if you will, a fox - it maybe has cubs to feed - on a warm night, used to sneaking into human homes to pinch petfood, smelling the warm sweet smell of babies - the humans are otherwise occupied - sneak in and follow the sweet smell - 'food' at last!! 😮
Foxes have always been considered vermin, however appealing they may look - and you only have to see the results when they have been in a hen run to realise they are not the sweet, cuddly animals they appear to be - they will kill 15 hens, biting their heads off, and maybe take two or three to eat. One has to be realistic where wild animals are concerned, however 'tame' they might appear.
So in my opinion the babies were more than probably attacked by a fox.
The fact that the mother refused an investigation by a wildlife expert to verify her claims speaks volumes.
I haven't read or heard this in any news report... I'm not saying it's not true, it just doesn't mention it in the article you linked to.
I'm sure the medical services would know if the injuries were consistant with a fox attack or not and would alert the appropriate authorities if needed.
I'm inclined to agree.
I wish I'd never mentioned my cousin's suspicions! I was surprised at her thoughts and didn't realise so many people think the same. Personally I think they were attacked by a fox, but as I wasn't there, I actually don't know.
I must admit... and I'm saying this in a teeny-tiny voice... I am a bit scared of them, because they literally come right up to my sitting room windows, sometimes during the day. One of my cats is very 'meaty' and a bit slow, I can imagine the foxes looking at her and licking their lips.
Perhaps these attacks are more common than we think....
Different circumstances but same end result.
Myarka.
Perhaps these attacks are more common than we think....
Different circumstances but same end result.
Myarka.
Having read the article, the fox did not attack - the child pulled it's tail.
Announced on BBC1 last night and confirmed here:
<a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href=" http://www.radiotimes.com/ListingsServlet?event=10&channelId=92&programmeId=117869035&jspLocation=/jsp/prog_details_fullpage.jsp "> http://www.radiotimes.com/ListingsServlet?event=10&channelId=92&programmeId=117869035&jspLocation=/jsp/prog_details_fullpage.jsp
replacing the originally billed programme is a Panorama special in which the parents of the twins are to be interviewed, tomorrow evening:
Thursday 01 July
7:00pm - 7:30pm
BBC1
Holistic
sorry if this grates but how come the mother did not hear a child screaming or crying as no doubt a child would do and there were 3 children in the room in total including an young boy ? just seems odd to me
Also if you check the defra website you will see that foxs are not clasified as vermin
I think I saw a clip of the Panorama programme earlier where the mother did say she heard her children crying.
This story has impacted on my tiny pregnant mind, though... Just as I was falling asleep the other night I was suddenly gripped by fear: 'What if a fox gets in through the cat-flap in the middle of the night??'.
It took a moment to realise we don't have a catflap!
I've got such mixed feelings towards foxes...
Yes, these poor babies will be scarred for life, but is that really worthy of a television documentary?
Airing irresponsibility in terms of summer security of their home = lots of publicity and cash?
Where do I sign.....:)
sorry if this grates but how come the mother did not hear a child screaming or crying as no doubt a child would do and there were 3 children in the room in total including an young boy ? just seems odd to me
Also if you check the defra website you will see that foxs are not clasified as vermin
I have just watched the programme and I believe what the parents said about this awful incident - there was apparently a lot of misreporting, as usual.
Maybe defra has redesignated foxes as not vermin but my dictionary names them particularly:
"Vermin (vermin) noun, pl. vermin. 1 Plural. Collectively, various small animals or insects that are destructive, annoying or injurious to health such as cockroaches or rats. 2 Plural. Collectively, various animals that prey on game, such as foxes or weasels."
Having been brought up and lived in the countryside all my life, I am well aware of the behaviour of many animals, not only here but in Africa too. Predatory animals are just that. It is possible to tame some of them and many are most appealing, including individual rats, mice, foxes and weasels - but that does not change their nature. Even cats and dogs can 'turn nasty' when cornered, and that after thousands of years of domestication. My cat is mustard at killing birds and mice (shrews) - my objections are firmly ignored.
Don't get me wrong, I love animals and believe they have as much right to exist on this planet as we have and they need our respect but I am also realistic. I hate animals and birds being shot and killed needlessly, but there are occasions when it is necessary to protect ourselves. Their nature remains the same, even when there is a measure of trust built up between them and humans. After all - it appears humans (in general) are the greatest predators.
To have so many foxes living in urban situations is creating problems for the future - in the countryside they are well dispersed. They certainly harbour many diseases that can easily infect dogs. I seriously hope that rabies never arrived in our island - that does not bear thinking about. It was reported that foxes were attempting to use the channel tunnel from the Calais terminal.