Signs of awakening spirituality

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

also just wanted to say i basically agree with all mr firstlight had to say - we must have been posting at the same time too!

xx

Jennyanyway
Yeah! LOL...I agree with you too!

There...two people agreeing..can't be bad..quite rare here on HP.
😉

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Still online here, but only for a sec right now. I agree with Roger -

One other thing that "alerted" me was the fact it was made into "12 points" LOL. How can you possibly number and make definitive such a profound experience? I still think the authors were schizo and on acid. 😀

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

This whole thread makes me sad, not because of the words but because of the attitudes.

For anyone to try to categorize what spirituality should look like to someone else immediately does two things:
Allows others to pat themselves on the back because they agree or
Allows others to put people down because they do not agree.

Spirituality is going to look and feel different for each person and from the perspective of each person. My experience may have similarities to yours but may also be vastly different from yours. Neither of us has a superior experience; we have a personal experience! If it were not personal, it would not be spiritual.

Expectations based upon what someone else sets forward (a list for example) tend to assist us to create what we think we “should” experience. In such a case we replicate them rather than being ourselves.

For the best source of what your spirituality should look like, ask within. That’s where it arises, that’s where it is confirmed, and that is where it takes effect. Then watch for the result in your life, for that’s where it is proven. And generally, if you need someone else’s approval or verification, you aren’t there yet. =)

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Holos,

What you say is correct. But are you also saying you have never read a spiritual book, studied any meditation, learned any form of healing, learned nothing about spirituality from any one else?

In the end we can throw away all learning and everything "out there" which merely points totruths which simply are anyway. But for those on this everlasting journey, guidance helps. Not having to re-invent the wheel helps.

This is not just about patting ourselves on the back or putting others down. In a way, this view which you say makes you sad,also contains the seed to allow you to grow further. Doesn't it? Why do you have this "dualistic" view of spirituality?

🙂

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Bryan,

I don’t need sadness to spur my growth. Joy does that abundantly!

I find that guidance from other people far more often leads me astray than it points me in the “right” direction. No one else can invent my wheel and I don’t want or need theirs, for it is not what I should have.

Enlightenment is Man's emergence from self-imposed tutelage, that is to say, from the inability to use the intellect without guidance by another. It is self-imposed if its cause does not lie in a deficiency of the intellect but of the courage and determination to use it autonomously. Sapere aude! Have the courage to think! is therefore the motto of the Enlightenment. (I. Kant, Was ist Aufklärung?)

Oneness negates duality.

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

I too am surprised by some of the posts on this thread. Personally I go with the idea that there are many different ways to awaken in spiritual terms. Certainly there can be both physical and mental pain and discomfort...I think it distinctly unhelpful for anyone to suggest that if you have these symptoms as outlined in the first post, then you are either faking or on acid. Shame on you, Venetian for implying that because you didn't experience any of this, it can't be true. And equally no one should imagine that they have to have these symptoms....There are as many paths as there are people treading them...IMVHO!!!

With love
Sunanda xxx

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Hi all

I agree with sunanda, there are many paths and how each one of us experience the path of spirituality in unique to that person.
Maybe it is the case that some go on the path with total bliss, that would be a nice thought.:eek:.
I just am questioning to myself that how could one grow without experiencing some sort of clearance.to learn from what is not good for us. we cannot ignore the fact that we are born into a world of legalism,rules and the society that has created a normality out of itself.

So once we become accustomed and brainwashed to the rules of society as we grow up,........ To then to start on our spiritual path, we then need to be awakened, shocked or moved in some way off the "dead" path of life.

I feel There must be some change involved, and as we are feeling comfortable in our worldly life, to be taken out of it and to be moved to start a new spiritual life can be uncomfortable, this i feel is where we experience the rebellious nature of the flesh, where this brings me to the points raised fron trin.

Of course i cannot say its exactly as described, but my point is that in order to move from the world to the spiritual path, we will should i say have to" be woken from our deep comfortable sleep in our cots",we know babies dont like to be woken when they are in a peaceful sleep. but if they are not woken up ,they will miss their feed, vital to nurish and feed the growing life of that child.(as an example)

That child will not understand why it has been woken from its sleep, and then becomes restless and upset.but yet the child is unaware that thedisturbed sleep is needed to give food for life.[&:]

Of course this is my opinion, and i feel that to experience a change in our inner selvesfor thepath of spirituality , its worth the times of discomfort we experience, for i feel that the "old" is making way for the "new".

blessings
all

sacrel

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

V, I have some of the symptoms and could ad some others. Especially the uncomfortable energylevel that makes the body tingling most of the time.

For short I have to say that it is a bumpy ride. You get bruised both mentally and physically. And the fun part.............where is it?? I´m getting pissed most of the time.[:@]

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Joseph,

What would happen if that child were left to awaken on her own? Wouldn't she still be nourished in good time? Nothing would be lost, for sleep is also nourishing.

The rest of the rules of society are boundaries that we accept for ourselves. We argue for our limitations.

In the long run, what we think is spiritual awakening may not be at all. It may be a masquerade with costumes purchased from a mass market.

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Enlightenment is Man's emergence from self-imposed tutelage, that is to say, from the inability to use the intellect without guidance by another. It is self-imposed if its cause does not lie in a deficiency of the intellect but of the courage and determination to use it autonomously. Sapere aude! Have the courage to think! is therefore the motto of the Enlightenment.

Gee Holos you lost me. This is all too deep for me!
🙂

Have the courage to think!

Have the courage to think what?

I've yet to meet anyone who could think themselves into a state of enlightenment let alone even able to think themselves into a state of happiness or even security.

I wonder howmany have the courage to even begin tothink the unthinkable. That which is beyond thought and never governed by thought. That is truly unthinkable.

Gee now I'm confusing myself and tying myself in intellectual circular knots of twaddle. Thought is a waste of time...if you think about it and even if you don't. Thought only serves in a world of duality. Spiritual knowing is outside of the domain of thought.It's the wrong tool that thinks it's the only tool. I wonder what Kant has to rant about that!
"cough"...apologies.

How come you quote Kant when you say we should transcend the thoughts of others and be beyond their tutelage?
🙂

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

How come you quote Kant when you say we should transcend the thoughts of others and be beyond their tutelage?

Because he doesn't give me lists that tell me what I should look for. =)

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

ORIGINAL: Holos [previous page]

What would happen if that child were left to awaken on her own? Wouldn't she still be nourished in good time? Nothing would be lost, for sleep is also nourishing.

I believe it is said that babies should be fed on demand, not by the clock.

Here's a little rhyme:

Do you remember when you were a wee wee tot
When they woke you up from your warm warm cot
And rammed you down on a cold cold pot
And made you wee wee whether you could or not.

AmI being facetious in reponse? No, I am not. I am drawing two analogies here ... what goes in and when ... and erm, what is released and when. 😉

Holistic

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Because he doesn't give me lists that tell me what I should look for. =)

Sapere aude! Dare to know
Have courage to use your own intelligence!
Immanuel Kant

cough...that's a list..albeit a short one.
🙂

Not sure whether you are kidding me or you are kidding yourself...hmmm..same thing in a unity consciousness.
😉

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

ORIGINAL: sunanda

Shame on you, Venetian for implying that because you didn't experience any of this, it can't be true.

Why are you so strongly worded? My point and motive is that people new to spirituality - a broad word! - may think they "have" to feel all these things, and most of us seem to identify with few of them.

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Laura,

Whatever you are trying to say to me is on another wavelength than I am at the moment.

Bryan,

You don't make yourself look better by trying to make me look bad. But if you have gained something from it, all is well. =)

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Well, this is interesting, isn't it? maybe we all need to take a step back, and look at ourselves? A thread is begun on "Signs of awakening spirituality", and within 24 hours there are such disagreements. I admit to my part in that, as I really don't recognise the opening post as being valid for me. But then why does someone attack me over my honest and heart-felt statement on that? Am I evil for disagreeing because it truly doesn't resonate with me at all? Why the bad vibes?

But I didn't intend to put the emphasis on myself here - What I mean is that we have to step back and see that there appear to be disagreements all over the place! "Spiritual", are we? Well, I actually don't doubt that we are. But what's all this disagreement about?

V
Edit for typo

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

I'm going through this thread again, and I hear what you are saying here:

ORIGINAL: Mr_Firstlight

Hey..I've done the bliss and also the pain and sorrow too. That's balance..but ultimately, it's not truth and it's not real either. Both are illusions. We should neither aspire to nor cling to either. One is merely a relection of the other and contains the seed of the other. Joy and sorrow, bliss and painare one thing..not two things.
😉

Yes, I don't claim that there are not tough times on the Path. In mentioning "bliss" I wasn't trying to define spirituality, I suppose. I was simply stating the fact of what I did experience in the beginning: just a statement of fact. ;)Call it 'human maya' if you will, but it was fact, and worth citing as such. In my world, my spirituality didn't begin with many negatives! Probably the one negative was a feeling of being lost, or not knowing "home" - but then I found that too anyway.

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Bryan,

You don't make yourself look better by trying to make me look bad. But if you have gained something from it, all is well. =)

eh? What on Earth are you talking about?
According to your writings about tutelage and not needing guidance or inventing a wheel which you don't need etc then you shouldn't care what otherslook like or what you look like either. Why this strange response..surely it isn't thought through?

You say we should have the courage to think, so how canwhat you or I look like to othersmatter?Canwe not rise above that? I personally don't care how I "look" to you or any other person. It is not important. It's not a problem.

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Probably the one negative was a feeling of being lost, or not knowing "home" - but then I found that too anyway.

:)Sounds cool to me Venetian. 🙂

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

I can't quite let this one go, and I hope others will not mind if I address it, please? It matters to me as spirituality matters to me, and Sunanda is someone I really respect:

ORIGINAL: sunanda

Shame on you, Venetian for implying that because you didn't experience any of this, it can't be true.

Sunanda, in just the last few days there have been several occasions on which you have addressed me in like manner. Why?

I thought you knew me, but I realise that you have an untrue image of me. You see me as being dogmatic, or as not listening to others, right? You are so wrong. If you trust my honesty, can you accept that?

I have my own way of learning, and I am always open-minded to learn from others. I do tend sometimes to state things in strong ways. I think the motive behind that is to see if all agree, or to 'tease out' people who disagree and can teach me another way of viewing things. I am always open to new perspectives. If one is not, one is intellectually dead. So could you revise this image you seem to have of me as a dogmatic, inflexible person?

You yourself have shocked me in the last few days, as I had an image of you too ;)- as being a mild, Hindu-oriented lady who'd never say boo to a goose. I didn't expect these things from you, which seem often directed at me of late.

May I ask that you review your image of me? I think you've got it wrong. ;)In fact, I know you have, since I know myself.

That would be one start in us all getting together on this thread, for example - not that we have to all agree, but that the subject can be conducted in a different vibe, without people saying they are "shamed" at one another?

Love,

V

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

ORIGINAL: Mr_Firstlight

Probably the one negative was a feeling of being lost, or not knowing "home" - but then I found that too anyway.

:)Sounds cool to me Venetian. 🙂

I admit that this was the one big early test I had, personally. I was not raised in any faith or church, so imagine an atheist (me!) trying to deal with the spiritual feelings creeping through, and which I did not recognise, as I had no criteria from which to judge them. But spirituality can't forever be repressed. It's hard, yes, while you are doing that. But in the end a few key books found their way to me, and I was so powerfully driven to discover 'truth' that I upped and packed and did the old hippie trail overland to India. I was never the same after that. 🙂

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

so imagine an atheist (me!) trying to deal with the spiritual feelings creeping through, and which I did not recognise, as I had no criteria from which to judge them

Hmmm Venetian,:)
So if you think back to that time, perhaps you might identify that these signs of spiritual awakening (on topic!)...whether true, rubbish or whatever, might just help those who are starting their journey? In some small way?

Certainly, as we progress, we aquire greater discernment and begin to know our own mind but when we begin where do we begin and what are the criteria?

Whilst all our paths are unique, there are certain "fundamentals", certain "laws" of spirituality.."Do unto others..etc" for example.

Perhaps then, there are fundamental "signs" of spiritual growth which arehinted at, however clumsily, they may be presented in the original post?

I have watched many people grow spiritually. It is beautiful to witness. All have addressed those "issues" of the self which inhibit the flow of unconditional love, compassion andbeauty in their lives. I am humbled by their fortitude, courage and tenacity in striving towards self realisation. All have had truly testing struggles and very hard times.

As Gibran mentioned in the Prophet..."The greater that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain."

Perhaps this is the way of Truth in this 3D world? Neither the Buddha nor the Christ escaped knowing great sorrow and suffering before realising their divinity. The Buddha and the Christ is within us all. Why then should we escape?

Now there's a question. 😉

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

ORIGINAL: Mr_Firstlight

Perhaps then, there are fundamental "signs" of spiritual growth which arehinted at, however clumsily, they may be presented in the original post?

I hear what you are saying. Every one of those signs, statistically, must apply truly to someone. I simply feel, or know from the experience of knowing many spiritually-awakened people, that these are not the major signs at all, by and large. As I say, it sounds like schizos on acid.

Spiritual awakening isn't always easy, but there's more joy than sorrow - otherwise, who would go through with it? And it can be gentle, not dramatic.

Since the thread has been started, maybe people could offer up their own real experiences of spiritual awakening? Not that they are likely to be numbered conveniently as "twelve". 😉

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Hi all

Although i respect everyones opinions, i feel what may havegiven this post a little twist is that theinformation trin has found for usdoes touch a note with most people on their spiritual path.
I do feel that there are "more people than we think" that can relate to the"similar experiences", on the list.

Therefore can be a close subject for them.
Our different views can be taken in ways that may touch someone deep.
Especially when their awakening was a life changing experience where they hadnt a clue what was going on.
Being drawn to the spiritual path in many ways.

So in a way its a kind of affirmation. that those upon a true spiritual awakeningcan seea frame of reference to relate their changes to, if any !, im not saying all the information is what people have experienced , but there is an picture there that most others can find answers from.

In the end most people become to feel what their path is moving to. but may have a difficult time within that transition.!

out with the "OLD" in with the "NEW".

blessings

sacrel

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

David

I'm sorry - I acknowledge that I have criticised your point of view recently, not only on this thread but on others. It comes down to my perception that you often post as though your own experience is the criterion by which others should be judged. I don't believe you think this is so but it often comes across that way to me. Your first post to trin on this thread upset me because you so rubbished her post, whereas, as you can see from what other people have said, a lot of people have found elements of truth in it.
But I don't think I 'know' you (I hardly know myself!:D) and of course we are all evolving and changing all the time anyway, so I also doubt that you know me.
It is fascinating that this thread is calling into being the most extreme spiritual oneupmanship....ego rules OK.

Anyway, I have no wish to fall out with anyone. Peace and love and give him a flower, say I.[sm=hippy.gif]

With love (and humble apologies to whomever might want them)
Sunanda xxx

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Sunanda, hi,

Thanks for that. I just didn't understand why you were on my back so much. I thought you knew me. I'm as mild a guy as you could meet, as you know (I hope? LOL). It's no problem - I just didn't understand. As I've explained, I find that I learn by making strong statements, but I am kind of positing them. If anyone can then come up with contrary data then I am all ears.

This is a bit confusing, but Trin has started another thread without the quotes at [link= http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=390126&mpage=1&key=&#390126 ]http://www.healthypages.net/forum/tm.asp?m=390126&mpage=1&key=&#390126[/link]

It's a more open thread but I would't know where to begin to answer. How can you type out what a mystical experience is like? I might give it a go ... but you never really can explain such a thing.

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

hi there all my lovelies[sm=1kis.gif]

i've just got to say - i love this thread, it heartens me greatly (and i find it slightly 'sad' that it saddens some... ha ha!) - this thread is making us think, for ourselves!!!! and about ourselves...

and making us feel (all sorts of emotions coming up - strongly agreeing with some bits and disagreeing with others, trying not to 'judge' what works for others... etc.)

it think it is a very healthy discussion, that belongs in (and somewhat defines) HP - and i find that i agree to varying extents with almost everything, but the beauty is just that... that we are all spiritual beings in a material form on our own path of discovery (some say remembering), and the very essence of this discussion is again the paradoxical fact that yes we are on our own paths (not following blindly to some dogmatic religious structure) but as mr. first light said, we also read books for guidance and don't always need to reinvent the wheel - just validate what we read with our own inner feeling/knowing/gut instinct - if it resonates for us great, if not try again...

love
jess

p.s. oops! - just realized i had only read to the bottom of page 1!! having quickly read through page 2, i must say all the late night ramblings got a bit weird for me - especially the bizarre baby feeding analogy (which i think is probably best dropped as i really don't want to get into that one!)
and thankfully surnanda and venetian (david) seem to have made up - yea 🙂

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

venetian

Spiritual awakening isn't always easy, but there's more joy than sorrow - otherwise, who would go through with it? And it can be gentle, not dramatic.

Thisis a very interesting thread. And Ihopenobody mindI jump in.

Who would go through withit if it is such a hardship?
We all will.

We have no choice, even if sometimes it seems like we do. If I had a choise in this I would be as far away as anyone can. It has given me nothing but sorrows. I had ten minutes of "bliss" about 4 years ago. That´s all.

Somehow our paths seems to be determined from the start. Some has their liberation in the early twenties. After a quite easy "trip". Others has to struggle an entire lifetime and yet don´t get through the gate. But we can´t leave it. We are forced to keep walking, keep struggling.

Sometimes there are carrots in front of us. Sometimes there are a whip on our back. Sometimes we get a bit comforted. But nowhere I see a free will. I am not here because "I" want to. I am here because I have to. We are not doing this for our sake, it is the will of the Universe.
regards
Aurora

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

Aurora and Jenn, and all, wow, such posts!

You know, I have a friend who says never to deal with superficial c but to be honest at all times. I think he takes it a bit too far, but I take the point. You'd never meet a more honest person. So in his style of writing ....

Here we all are, discussing "spirituality". Has it occurred to anyone that though we might have genuine experiences of that, we might as human beings just be going through a hard patch right now? I know I am. So I admit it might make me a bit short-fused? Can't we be open here and admit such things? Sure we can.

I acknowedge then that people might find spirituality to be hard and sad? I don't know what to make of that and still wonder. It has rarely been anything but a joy to me. The sadness enters in when I somehow leave the Path, that's all!

I wish to goodness that typed words could convey what mystical experiences are like. It's just impossible and cannot be done. I assume some of you have had them too. You are no longer a human being, but you are the Allness of God. it takes your breath away.

There is one thing I must say, and this was not a mystical experience, but it was life-transforming. First I must be dogmatic again, LOL, and say that dozens of "channellers" channell a false "Saint Germain". Their channellings, frankly, are *. But when I'd just turned 20 I heard the real words of Saint Germain. My goodness! That was certainly a change in life. I knew him, and I knew his character and spirit. But I had never known Him in this life. I knew we must have known each other previous to my incarnation this time round. I knew him and still do, so closely.

As the saying goes, "To know him is to Love him". You can't know the real Saint Germain without loving him as your best friend in the world. So that, for me, was my spiritual awakening.

V 🙂

RE: Signs of awakening spirituality

hi david,

the only St Germain i know did a great album called "tourist" and it certainlyawakened my spiritual side :D.

but, david... this last post of yours is doing the usual "I am right", isnt it? i know your ideas on other channellers, but surely, you cant always dis others versions of "st germain"... ? their truth is as valid as yours, no?

:o)