Perhaps we don't need more programming?

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

I can relate to your words, trin, and don't disagree.

There's a bewildering array of "courses" and "self-development" thingies. But the irony is that every point of view can lead to a new course! Your very post made me see that even this could, by someone, be made into a "way of life" they might teach, have a website about, etc. :DFor example:

ORIGINAL: trin

But what if you don't need training at all to reveal your greatest potential? What if all you have to do is unfold into yourself to discover everything you could ever be? What if just by being the real you, the environment shapes naturally around you to first reveal and then satisfy your heart's longing?...

I can see it now: "FINDING THE REAL YOU; How To Break Free Of Course-Addiction And Discover - WITHIN YOURSELF! - Everything You Ever Wanted To Be." £15 per session and a Trainers Course to begin next month.
😮

See how it goes? And if people really are seeking, searching, I think the large array will always be there.

What I don't understand is why some people flit about from one Path to another and ever 'stick'. In fact, I didn't have time to compose it, but another thread I thought of beginiing on HP recently was along the lines of "Those of you on a spiritual Path: Have you ACTUALLY changed and actually accomplished something?" That isn't judgemental as I'm interested to know who has and who hasn't.

I think the problem was summed up by a friend of mine even back in 1976. For this was beginning even then. He spoke of this and coined the term, effortlessly, of "psychic groupies". He meant people who jump about from one thing to another, following only the latest famous person, book or fad. How can you ever accomplish if you don't stick something out? I'd advise anyone to know or figure out in their heart the kind of thing they really do want, seek and they shall find, whether it's a religion, a spiritual practice, a therapy, an art, or just to get away from that and live their own way,and then stay with it.

V 😉

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

Good points Venetian. I agree that getting too much into "spiritual materialism" is a problem. Then again, maybe the courses lead us to the threshold of where we realize that they are a complete waste of time, a place we would never get to if we did not do them? lol
Most of the courses and paths that I know of deserve a "flit" because they are insubstantial and those who flit into and away from them perhaps were just quick learners -- "nothing here for me".
On the other hand, many courses do give us the tools and the vocabularly so that it is easier to express what is inside in a particular way (not that that is necessary).
Just some thoughts 🙂

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

Hi Trin

Grown-ups want courses. But when has there ever been a requirement for us to be “grown-up?”

It seems to me that the grown up, as in The Little Prince, is the one who has lost the ability to see.

The child is the one who frequently comes back to touch base, to see that all is as it should be, that nothing has changed in the moments that they have been away. It’s the child who views the world with wonder and delight and finds joy in the smallest of treasures or details. It is the child who can leave behind the moments of doubt and the disappointments as s/he looks again to the future.

I think that’s what Jesus meant when he said that we should be as a little child.

I want to be that child. I want to leave the hurts behind and look at the possibility of what comes next. I want to keep the ability to see Spirit in the sunrise and be reminded of oneness when I see deer. I want to know that being human is a most delightful thing, even when I fall down and skin my knee. I want to be able to keep on growing even when I don’t know where it will lead. I want to look under the bed and see that the monsters that I imagine aren’t real. I want to talk to Spirit like an imaginary friend. I want to believe that the stars are innumerable, that borders are silly, that history is merely a signpost, and that I can tame the wildest of souls with Love.

I want what I already have! =)

Let’s rejoice in our childhood and hold hands and skip through the leaves. Let’s find the awe in the view from the mountaintop and focus on the light that shines even into the deepest of valleys. Let’s enjoy those delicate flowers that find a way to blossom even in the snow. Let’s be kids together! Who needs courses?

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

Yeah I think once you have found a path, you should stick to it.

That way things are kept simple and you can stay focused. Anything else just adds to the mental chatter and distracts us from what we are trying to acheive.

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

"Everything I see is a part of me'.

When we are unable to sufficiently hear the still small voice within then the true self (our inner teacher) manifests itself in those people around us and those people hold the key to unlock our inner doorways. In truth it is 'us' doing it but we do require these external mirrors. life is a continual process of co-creation.

So whilst we don't need teachers teaching us to be something we are not, we do need 'key holders' to unlock the doorways to who we really are.

Trin
x

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

I agree completely, Trin. In fact I think on this thread we all agree, but wording it differently.

Getting a reality check from others, whether they arehighly qualified or not, is something we may need at times if we are in a period where we can't hear that "still, small voice" within.

As one aside comment, I must admit to going to these 'courses' - which had nothing wrong with them! - not intending to take it up necessarily as a life-mission (!!!) but as a boost for the week, and even as a ... I was going to say 'spiritual entertainment' ... but that is not true as I was sincere.

In brief, each will have their own reasons for going. My own reason is that my preferred Path is not physically represented here, so courses of a good nature are a kind of Plan B for me.

I have a second "comment aside". It's really a thread in itself for sure, but that phrase, "still, small voice" struck me. It only comes through that way because we are so bad at attuning to it! It is a Mighty Avalanche of Light and Truth, and Love, and Insight! If it appears to be ... "small" .. to us, as it often does, it's a measure of our lack of attunement to our Higher Self! 😮

V xxx

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

Yes Venetian,
Size is a construct of the mind. If one were insufficiently able to hear the voice within, it may indeed seem 'small'.
Trin
x

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

Or maybe we just think we need others to unlock because that is how we have been encouraged to think. Maybe it is looking at the imperfect reflection from others that has diminished us in the first place.

Maybe what we really need is others who Love us anyway. Who underline our being with acceptance and understanding.

Perhaps we have no deficits that need to be corrected or reflected or genuflected.

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

Holos,
From the eyes of a child 'The Little Prince' contains some profound pearls of wisdom. I agree 😉
Synchronisitically, it is the very book that we are reading to to my seven year old lad right now!
Love
Trin

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

trin,

May we never lose the ability to see

From the eyes of a child

And may we never accept the reflections of those who tell us that we are lacking or unacceptable or unqualified.

Love to you~

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

Totally agree with what you've said Trin. Do we not have enough every single day in the media and in society itself?

I've been on a great big wide circular journey - all the while I thought I was travelling closer and closer to what I was meant to be by adding another layer of 'knowledge', or 'spirituality' or 'understanding' to my repertoire, carrying me closer to who I was meant to be.

Itactually carried me further and further away from 'me' yet conversely, as soon as I realised this I returned to myself again. I realised I'd been seeking what I already had. I shed all my accumulated layers and found myself still sitting there in the centre, patiently whistling and waiting for me to catch on.

So in an odd sort of way they did actually help me to achieve what they promised but by proving themselves , unnecessary rather than the opposite.

QMG

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

for someone who has learnt a lot from workshops and books I would say they definitely havea place. what is interesting tho is that the most successful of them do exactly what has been discussed here which is led me back to myself. I think it a psychological issue that we constantly look to the external or to someone else to verify things. and a social one too because that unquestioning and reliance on other people has been encouraged by the government and businesses. i definitely think there is a place for these types of workshops, seminars and books - that's what learning is all about - evenif it's to realise you need to unlearn and trust in yourself!

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

I wholeheartedly agree Joanna.
Well said!

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

So whilst we don't need teachers teaching us to be something we are not, we do need 'key holders' to unlock the doorways to who we really are.

I LOVE that comment 😀 Thats pretty much what I wanted to say! I can see it from two sides really, on one hand there are an overwhelming amount of courses you can take who promise you the world - along with all their other promotional material 😉 Yet on the other hand, when you sink so deep into despair it is often hard to find a way out without a little support of some kind. I havent attended any courses as such (excpet Reiki) and have been lucky enough to be intuitively guided to the right material at the right time for me, which helped me enormously.

If I were to advocate anything, it would be that that EMPOWERS others to start their spiritual journey and find their own truths and path. What works for some doesnt always appeal to others. There are many different roads to rome but I feel it is important to stay on your own path and not keep criss crossing as this leads to confusion and you end up not knowing if you are going forwards or backwards LOL!!! Your own path will feel *right* for you and guidance will always be there if you ask for it - it has for me 🙂

Anything that requires constant 'buying into' through course levels, materials, seminars etc just doesnt feel authentic to *me* There are a huge amount of rescources out there if you look, a lot of them free from the internet or from libraries. It is helpful to have a support network though, of likeminded people - that is why this place is invaluable. I learn so much from just 'lurking' here!

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

Hi Joanna very well put.

If anyone is peeping in like me these workshops are also great for CPD.

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

If I were to advocate anything, it would be that that EMPOWERS others to start their spiritual journey and find their own truths and path.

Absolutely!

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

do i dare add that since i've come home andchecked my emaili've signed up for a free seminar on finding your own path?!? had to laugh 😀

x

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

And in the spirit of creativity which I am trying to nuture, inspired by your good selves, I present to you...

Ode To Us All

I ask myself, Is life to fear?
And the answer is usually, No.
I ask, does it matter
I'm always so shattered
and still don't know which way to go?!

Perhaps if I breathe and take time,
I'll hear my voice and stop being told.
For the Truth of the matter
delusion does shatter
and fortune does favour the bold.

Each one of us has our own Truth
though it's hard to hear mine through the din
of my brain's chitter chatter
and views that don't matter.
Must remember - not out but Within!

much love guys

x x x

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

I find it interesting that most of the world religions are founded upon the teachings of one who was confident in breaking away from the “current trends” and came back to the idea of “Love one another.”

Then those who followed added the “stuff” to the basic teachings.

Why do we need to buy into the ideas of karma, ascension, penance, meditation, ceremony, techniques, esoteric teachings and all of the other add-ons that make money for other people and take it out of our own pockets? Why pay for something that you already have?

Even apart from religion, the plethora of courses, in the end, will likely lead you farther away from who you really are so that you can be a clone of someone else’s conglomerate.

All it really takes is to believe in your own worthiness. The rest falls into place when you understand that no one else is better than you and you are no better than anyone else.

To quote The Man in Black from the movie The Princess Bride (slightly out of context), “Anyone who says differently is selling something!”
Keep that thought. Then keep your money. =)

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

In many ways I agree with you Holos. The true self is contained within and I agree that many spiritual teaching frequently lead us away from this truth rather than back towards it. In my truth, we are ONE being, ONE consciousness manifested through multipicity of form like waves on an infinite ocean.

We co create together, we learn through our interactions, our relationships, our joys, and our pain. Our lives are shaped by that which we are being on the inside. The key to our unfolding is letting go of our inner distortions in order that our true being may be manifest.

But how can we see these distortions? In my truth we radiate them outwards, and see them reflected through all events and circumstances. It is no accident that others can help us to see those distortions. Therefore if a guide can help us do that, to me that is entirely natural, at one with the universe of co-creativity and natural to our unfolding.

Money is merely a source of energy. When a co-creative interaction happens, it can only do so when sustained by the correct flow of energy. That exchange can take place in many forms. To say that all spiritual teachings are a means by which to take money from people feels like a judgement. Whilst there are undoubtedly less scrupulous teachers out there, there are certainly many providing profound benefit and help in our awakening.

Giving and receiving are folds in the same garment. It would be a pity to limit the full depth and beauty of that garment.

At the end of the day, what is a teacher but someone who helps us see ourselves more clearly.

In Love and Light
Trin

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

trin,

Judgment is what keeps us safe. It’s what made you ask the question in the first place.

We have choices to make every moment in this life and those are based upon judgment. We judge one thing to be better than another, preferable to another, easier than another, more fun than another, and the list goes on. We, as humans, are not without judgment, no matter how much we might want to be; nor should we be. (I did not say, however, that “all spiritual teachings are a means by which to take money from people.”)

Along with that is the way we respond to the world. Before we radiate those distortions of which you speak, we must develop them. We do that from the moment of conception and through the physical and emotional effects that come to bear on us. The child develops the attitudes and the affect with which s/he comes to each event in life.

A child treated with cruelty has not co-created that situation, but it will be shaped by it. The only way that any person will see beyond their reflection is to see the core of their being, which is invisible to others. Other people only see us through their own eyes and that cannot ever be a true reflection.

That is not to say that other people cannot have a valid respect for our inner self and cannot give us a glimpse of unconditional love. Sometimes we begin to see what is possible as we see other lives and it may be that the words of another strike a chord in us that reminds us of our true self, but when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, we will never know what unconditional love is until we ourselves attempt to give it. Only then can we see what the effect is.

Being loved is not something that can be purchased in a course. Love is only truly shared one on one, whether that is you and another person (who may or may not share the depth of your feelings) or between you and Spirit (who Love to a degree you can’t even imagine).

When you get even an inkling of that kind of Love, and accept it, it changes everything about you.

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

ORIGINAL: Holos

Why do we need to buy into the ideas of karma, ascension, penance, meditation, ceremony, techniques, esoteric teachings and all of the other add-ons that make money for other people and take it out of our own pockets? Why pay for something that you already have?

Even apart from religion, the plethora of courses, in the end, will likely lead you farther away from who you really are so that you can be a clone of someone else's conglomerate.

All it really takes is to believe in your own worthiness. The rest falls into place when you understand that no one else is better than you and you are no better than anyone else.

To quote The Man in Black from the movie The Princess Bride (slightly out of context), "Anyone who says differently is selling something!”
Keep that thought. Then keep your money. =)

well said!!:D

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

Judgment is what keeps us safe. It’s what made you ask the question in the first place.

Hi Holos,

Thank you for sharing your perspective here.

There is a difference between judgement and discernment.
At the end of the day a rose is still a rose, and a tulip is still a tulip.

Trin

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

ORIGINAL: Holos

A child treated with cruelty has not co-created that situation, but it will be shaped by it. The only way that any person will see beyond their reflection is to see the core of their being, which is invisible to others. Other people only see us through their own eyes and that cannot ever be a true reflection.

That is not to say that other people cannot have a valid respect for our inner self and cannot give us a glimpse of unconditional love. Sometimes we begin to see what is possible as we see other lives and it may be that the words of another strike a chord in us that reminds us of our true self,

And that's why workshops, books, seminars are so important. Sometimes people are so far away from being able to see their core self (and i speak both from personal experience and from working with young people) that it is those small glimpses of yourself being reflected back at you which gives you the belief in yourself to start looking within in the first place. Sometimes it is only when someone starts to believe in you and reflect back your true fabulousness (even if it's only a small part) that you even realise it's there. And things start to snowball from that until eventually you being to move away from needing external verification. i think if you don't have any positive influences in your lifeor people who are on this wave lengthit's through workshops, seminars and books that this can happen. And i think the further you move down this path the more discernment you can exercise. It's like with anything - music, books, art, whatever - the more you listen, read, participate in something the better you get at it and the better you get at realising when some is quality or not. in my opinion!!

x x x

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

I value your opinion, Joanna, but respectfully have not found the same thing to be true in my experience. People in need seem to be black holes in which all kinds of interaction is extinguished (and i speak both from personal experience and from working with young people). Those of us who are teachers would like to think that we give people knowledge, when in actuality all we can do is lead them to the moment that they find it for themselves.

The good thing is that no matter whether we ever learn how fabulous we are, how far from actuality we stray, how many dirty deeds we perform, or how awful we feel about ourselves, we remain just as valuable as the next person in the circle of life. =)

We don’t have to agree. We don’t have to share the same definitions of words. We don’t have to even dialogue. All we have to do is BE and all is well. Isn't that thrilling?

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

ORIGINAL: Holos

I value your opinion, Joanna, but respectfully have not found the same thing to be true in my experience. People in need seem to be black holes in which all kinds of interaction is extinguished (and i speak both from personal experience and from working with young people). Those of us who are teachers would like to think that we give people knowledge, when in actuality all we can do is lead them to the moment that they find it for themselves.

i think we're singing from the same hymn sheet so to speak - perhaps my explaination wasn't clear 🙂 I couldn't agree more Holos. it's not so much that people are missing something and require an outside source to give it to them. It's more a case of needing it pointed out that they have it in the first place! and in my opinion that's where workshops and seminars come in (at least the good ones do). There's a lot of support for young people today and rightfully so. it frustrates me that as a society this support stops at the age of 19 in mostcases as if by that age we've got it all sorted. if it wasn't for workshops etc then many peoples selflearning would either stop completely or be a whole lot slower in coming to the conclusion that they have everything they need within themselves.

i think the tricky aspect is the charging for passing this knowledge on. I personally don't have any issue with it - i agree with trin about money being energy. it's all about the intention of the course provider i suppose.

what do you think?

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

I don't think we are fabulous. I think we can be fabulous, we can be dreadful, we can be loving, we can be cruel, etc. It's implicated that there is some desirable benchmark to meet and if you take x, y, z course it's either a big step toward attaining this or the last stage to that goal etc.
American 'gurus' especailly seem to ooze this syrupy aritificial sort of spirituality that actually has nothing to do with spirituality at all.

That can mean that people trying to attain this angelic persona can start to actually question what is wrong with them and why they still don't feel this level of perfection or enlightenment. They feel they're wrong in some way to they need another course to try and stamp out the blackness in their soul.

Piffle.

It's about accepting that you're a normal, fallible, human being just living your life and being here. That's it. Loving yourself sometimes and sometimes realizing you've just been a heel. Extending that level of generosity to other people wherever you can and just getting on with it.

I caught a glimpse of Americal X Factor the other day it's a very interesting study in human behaviour. One hopeful will say in their interview before being auditioned 'I come from a very musical family, I've had voice training lessons since I was five years old,my aunt was backing singing with (some huge singing star) and all I've ever wanted is to sing because it's in my blood'.

You wait with bated breath and within a few seconds of them singing it becomes painfully apparent that they actually don't have any any talent in this area at all! It's quite an achievment in itself to spend most of your life having singing lessons and still not be able to sing!

You get other hopefuls who just say 'well I'll give it my best shot. there's a lot of competition but I'll just give it a go'. And as soon as they sing you know you're hearing real talent.

It just goes to show the human capacity for total self delusion. Sometimes you just have to accept that you many NOT have what it takes to follow your dream and all the positive thinking, hypnotherapy, chanting and crystal waving in the world ain't going to change that. You can't have everything you want, or at least, not always in the form you want it.

I think the same analogy can be applied to this particular topic. There are people who consider themselves wise and holy and enlightened and other who consider themselves not but at the end of the day none of it means anything. It's just self perception which is a hall of mirrors in itself.

It's also a mute point because even if a person actually IS highly evolved spiritually is no better in anyway than someone at the opposite end of the spectrum. We need all sorts of people to keep the spectrum rounded and complete because eacho part is valuable and necessary to the purpose of the whole.

If the workshops etc delivered what they promised and everyone went on one it would be a complete and utter disaster.....unless they all realised they never needed it in the first place:)

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

hi queensmeadgirl

hmmm, interesting. i see what you're saying about people not accepting themselves as who they are as feeling wrong - and maybe chasing gurus to fix them. But i think we ARE all fabulous - I can also be a pain the arse and thoughtless and in the past (and perhaps in the future!) a complete cow, though i try and be mindful to everything and everyone and do my best not to be, but I'm still fabulous - even if my ego does rear it's ugly head sometimes. isn't part of being fabulous (which is my favourite word by the way so you'll see me use it a lot!) accepting yourself warts and all? It doesn't mean being super shiney and perfect. i suppose at peace with yourself - knowing you are fabulous even if you you do have the capaccity to be dreadful and cruel. i mean, we all have the capacity to be anything and everything - it's just up to us to choose which we decide to be - but our core essence is always absolutely, erm, fabulous!! (by the way, if that sounds egotistical in itself it's not meant to be - and i'm always open for a different slant on things)

You're right about people's capacity for self delusion and following dreams. I had the exact same conversation with a very experience youth worker. with all these x factors etc, and with every youth work course seeming to be music production and street dance, everyone wants to be a star. but you have to work with what you have naturally, apply yourself, do x, y and z but ultimately take from it the journey in itself and all the added bonuses and lessons taughtthat come with it - not just the end goal of being a star (though perhaps that might happen too). Perhaps you could say it's like people reaching for enlightenment but on the journey learn so much about spirit that eventually they realise that's not what the point is? thatpeople who are truly enlightenedare humble with it- what do others think? (because i'm a lot more hazy on this one!!!!).

But i still think workshops are valid. because it's not them that has to deliver it's us - and that's not pressure to be perfect just a need for own action. being mindful takes effort - a course can teach us the point of being mindful and ways of doing so but it's up to the individual to action it.

i went on the course i mentioned earlier in the thread and the guy running it gave this quote which, for me at least, is very apt - "to know but not to do is to not yet know". What does everyone think about that?

love, love, love guys

x x x

RE: Perhaps we don't need more programming?

"to know but not to do isto notyet know"

wow that's wise and very spooky as only yesterday I was talking to someone who said to me 'yes I already know that, don't be patronising' and I said 'you know it but you don't know it otherwise you wouldn't keep repeating the pattern'.

We all have things we know but don't know don't we????

I'd go even futher and say once you do really know you can only act in accordance with that and trying to slip back into previous ways would be as difficult as trying to slip back into a pair of childhood shoes. Cool.:)