Karma

You pose interesting questions and I have often wondered about this...since to administer what we deem to be justice can feel a lot like playing god.

Karma isn't specifically about the example you give but refers to the consequences reaped from our actions and intent generally. It is cause and effect. Intent is as important, if not more so, than what we do.

If someone hurts us physically/emotionally then how we react may well be their karma. However, it would be an act of compassion and wisdom to understand why they are doing this and take this on board before such knee-jerk retaliatory reactions. Wanting to hurt them back because they hurt us is a tit-for-tat situation. Apart from making us no better than that person it will also have consequences somewhere down the line. So intent is all.

It would be more beneficial if we can appeal to someone's conscience re. what they did to us but their ability to learn from their action is up to them. We can only highlight how the situation has affected us but it may well be that they are not ready yet to improve their own karma. We are all at various stages of development.

It's worth remembering that 'Karma' is a specific belief that belongs to a specific religion. Once it is adopted as a belief system by those outside the original religion, it gets changed (generally to make the people believing in it more comfortable).

Therefore, in deciding to believe in it, it can work however makes you happiest.

I think to hurt someone deliberately because they hurt you is wrong. It is all about intention. If I am meant to be the vehicle of karmic justice, it will happen without any intent on my part.

I think to hurt someone deliberately because they hurt you is wrong.

It also suggests a very simplistic view of what motivates behaviour.

It's worth remembering that 'Karma' is a specific belief that belongs to a specific religion. Once it is adopted as a belief system by those outside the original religion, it gets changed (generally to make the people believing in it more comfortable).

Therefore, in deciding to believe in it, it can work however makes you happiest.

Although karma pertains to buddhism and hinduism, nevertheless it embraces causality (notably that causes have effects).

Causality is the relationship between a cause and an effect. So yes, karma includes causality. This doesn't mean that they are the same. It is possible to believe in causality without subscribing to karma.

Or you might define them as being the same - as I said above, once someone takes a word out of its original meaning it can be defined however they want it to be.

Causality is the relationship between a cause and an effect. So yes, karma includes causality. This doesn't mean that they are the same. It is possible to believe in causality without subscribing to karma.

Or you might define them as being the same - as I said above, once someone takes a word out of its original meaning it can be defined however they want it to be.

Of course there's a difference between karma and causality. Karma is like a further tweaking of it. What I was trying to say was that, even if you don't believe in karma, then causality clearly still operates. Actions have consequences/repercussions.

Wow interesting insights guys. So any action you make will have consequences as well as other people's actions.
If someone is aggressive, violent or nasty towards you will this have consequences ?
Does this also include bitching. I've met lots of people over the years that bitch about others behind their backs and make fun out of them.

Wow interesting insights guys. So any action you make will have consequences as well as other people's actions.
If someone is aggressive, violent or nasty towards you will this have consequences ?
Does this also include bitching. I've met lots of people over the years that bitch about others behind their backs and make fun out of them.

Do you mean will this have consequences for the perpetrator of such actions? It would be hard to say with any certainty and a lot might depend on their conscience (or lack of), e.g. whether they have the capacity to be remorseful. If you mean in terms of backfiring on them well, clearly if they have behaved badly, once others know about this they will be looked upon unfavourably. It would be hard to say whether there is a cosmic kind of pay-back operating (perhaps in the long term this may be so) - there is no way of knowing this for sure.

Those who bitch behind people's backs a lot tend to get the friends they deserve i.e. who are like themselves. I am not sure there is great loyalty in such people since the temptation to bitch amongst one another (indirectly/behind someone's back) must also be there if they have this tendency. What's the phrase... "if you lie with dogs, you get fleas".

Wow interesting insights guys. So any action you make will have consequences as well as other people's actions.
If someone is aggressive, violent or nasty towards you will this have consequences ?
Does this also include bitching. I've met lots of people over the years that bitch about others behind their backs and make fun out of them.

Of course. But you don't need this pointing out, surely?

Wow interesting insights guys. So any action you make will have consequences as well as other people's actions.
If someone is aggressive, violent or nasty towards you will this have consequences ?
Does this also include bitching. I've met lots of people over the years that bitch about others behind their backs and make fun out of them.

Karma is bit more complex than that. Its hard to understand if you pick single concept/belief from a culture. Yes, it is about intention and consequences but its not limited to these two only. Good karma and bad karma are considered equally bad as most of us can't handle too much of good karma. Aggressiveness and violence isn't essentially bad if its used properly but yes, there will be consequences for everything.

I think you've answered your question in the post. If you move little ahead in your question, are you still talking to those people? probably no. Then who is? most likely people with same trait. Also, they might also be bitching about each other with their other friends. Same thing might apply to their family, kids are easily influenced by their parents or environment. They might do same thing in future about their parents or friends!

Now here, how does "intention and consequences" apply to the person they're bitching about?

Yeah it just seems like one big never ending cycle.
It's like you did this to me cos I deserved it but I'm not conscious of it so I get all upset, now I'm doing this to you to get you back. After this I might get the karma back again.
It's just gonna repeat itself over and over again ????

Yeah it just seems like one big never ending cycle.
It's like you did this to me cos I deserved it but I'm not conscious of it so I get all upset, now I'm doing this to you to get you back. After this I might get the karma back again.
It's just gonna repeat itself over and over again ????

Tit-for-tat is somewhat childish and ineffective. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." There are other, more beneficial, ways of addressing the issue, e.g. see my post # 2 above.

I think making the person aware of the behaviour and how it effected you is good if it really has deeply effected you.

Maybe it has effected you because of your reaction, rather than their action.

Being hurt I guess !

Being hurt I guess !

Which can be dealt with in various ways....

Tell the person how it made you feel
Ignore it
Heal from it by yourself and move on
Have a go at them about it

Tell the person how it made you feel
Ignore it
Heal from it by yourself and move on
Have a go at them about it

Yes those are some options...even a combination i.e. to tell them how it made you feel (to get their feedback and, perhaps, alert their conscience/morals) then heal from it and move on.

Tell the person how it made you feel
Ignore it
Heal from it by yourself and move on
Have a go at them about it

Or - look at yourself to find out WHY you reacted as you did.

Or - look at yourself to find out WHY you reacted as you did.

....bearing in mind that, sometimes, the reaction is appropriate to the catalyst. Sometimes we may not be the best judge of this assessment though so sounding out others on the matter can provide a useful barometer.

You mean asking for others opinions / thoughts ?

Well with situation in question - I don't like being shouted at by people.

I like the 'alert their conscious / morals'. I think I am quite good at that and making people realise things about themselves or face things they don't want to see or accept. Things they deny in themselves.
I've noticed a lot of people are not aware of their own behaviour a lot of the time, probably myself included as none of us are perfect.
This is turning into an interesting thread.

You mean asking for others opinions / thoughts ?

No. I mean take responsibility for your own reactions. No one likes being shouted at, but how you respond to being shouted at is up to you.

And people shout (even shout AT you) for many reasons, most of which are to do with them. To get upset is to assume that their behaviour is all about you. It might be, of course. They may be making the same assumptions about why you do something as you are about them. But to respond by getting angry or upset, or by telling them where they are going wrong will only make the situation worse.

I like the 'alert their conscious / morals'. I think I am quite good at that and making people realise things about themselves or face things they don't want to see or accept. Things they deny in themselves.
I've noticed a lot of people are not aware of their own behaviour a lot of the time, probably myself included as none of us are perfect.
This is turning into an interesting thread.

In my opinion, making people see things they deny in themselves - unless they have asked you to - is not your job. It is only your assumption that they are denying anything.

You say that you yourself are probably unaware of your own behaviour ( something most of us could say). Better maybe to work on this than on someone else's.

Please understand - I am not saying you are at fault in any way - we take responsibility for something, not because we are to blame for it, but because we can change the situation. The only person you can change is yourself. Changing your reactions changes the situation.

Interesting.
I guess focusing on other people is also being overinvolved in their lives which may be a boundary invasion ???
It's also like trying to fix problems or make changes which isn't really my responsibility and it's a waste of my time / effort. Trying to save the day - it's a bit cartoon superhero-ish
😀
Why does it feel good to have things out with people, face off with them or fight back? Is this the ego ....

Interesting.
I guess focusing on other people is also being overinvolved in their lives which may be a boundary invasion ???
It's also like trying to fix problems or make changes which isn't really my responsibility and it's a waste of my time / effort. Trying to save the day - it's a bit cartoon superhero-ish
😀
Why does it feel good to have things out with people, face off with them or fight back? Is this the ego ....

Yes, largely bolstering the ego whilst deflecting the issue. It may feel good because it deflects from facing how to deal with your own reactions by placing the blame solely on the other person which, of course, it is not! No-one can make us feel anything without our permission. Taking responsibility for our actions/reactions is a cornerstone of personal development/spirituality.

I will admit to trying to raise people's awareness of what they do (if I find the situation calls for this) because, as a lightworker, I am interested in people reaching their potential. That said, I fully accept that how that is received will vary with the person and where they are at.

I will admit to trying to raise people's awareness of what they do (if I find the situation calls for this) because, as a lightworker, I am interested in people reaching their potential. That said, I fully accept that how that is received will vary with the person and where they are at.

I prefer to teach those who come to me to learn how to do it for themselves. I do not consider myself all-knowing enough to raise someone else's awareness, but I am certainly capable of helping my students to do this. Assuming, of course, that they are prepared to make the effort.

Why does it feel good to have things out with people, face off with them or fight back? Is this the ego ....

Because we are taught to stand up for ourselves and to take pleasure in scoring points over others. It is possible to train yourself out of this.

Interesting.
I guess focusing on other people is also being overinvolved in their lives which may be a boundary invasion ???

A boundary works both ways. Yes, in such a case you would be invading their boundaries. You would also be weakening your own, allowing others to invade you.