Bit of a rhetorical question this! I have been interested, or drawn towards, shamanism for years. But have been through phases where I read book after book on the subject then lose interest. Or I decide that it is wishful thinking to believe there is something in it (while secretly hoping that there is!)....I also find it hard to trust that teachers wouldn't be ripping me off or thinking I am a gullible idiot for paying x hundred amount to do workshops.
I have had just enough mystical experiences in my life to pursue things like this but they have always been quite subtle......Now I'm thinking perhaps I am drawn towards shamanism because it is for me. So I guess to sum it up I am endlessly searching for an experience that proves there is more to all this than material reality but in the end over questioning anything that might give me the experience, how mad is that? Just a rambling musing post. I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels like this?
No, I’m sure that you’re not the only person to feel like this. And in the end only you will know if shamanism is the right path for you. But you are most likely to get the kind of experience that you want after you have made some commitment to the path.
A bit of practical advice – ‘x hundred amount’? How much do you think they are worth? Bear a few things in mind – how long does the course last? Is it residential (otherwise you will have to factor in accommodation and food)? Has the teacher had to travel from abroad (if so, you are bound to have to pay more)?
Has the teacher written a book or articles? I’m not saying all good teachers have done so but a book or series of articles would give you a feel for that teacher. Can you contact him/her easily to ask questions? Does the course cover enough (e.g. basic shamanic journeying) to allow you to continue to grow once the workshop is over?
Look carefully at the website. Does it mention ‘spirits’? (You might be surprised how many don’t.) Does it say who that teacher learned from?
How far are you anticipating taking the practice? Does the same teacher teach more advanced workshops? (If you change teachers you may have to start with another Introductory course, unless your teacher has an agreement with other teachers.)
Also – what is it that makes you think that shamanic teachers are wanting to rip you off? Have you had this experience in the past? I’m biased of course, being a shamanic teacher myself, but although I know of some who reportedly do so, I don’t personally know any teachers who would do such a thing.
I hope this helps.
Thank you, that is helpful! Yes, I have had experiences of dodgy teachers in the past, not in the shamanism area as haven't attended any workshops on this yet. I did do a one day 'taster' course years ago and found it very easy, I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about, it just seemed to be about having a good imagination!
Still, what you say about only getting the kind of experience that I want after making a commitment feels right to me, I guess is it about making that initial leap of faith and suspending judgement etc. I can't seem to make the leap and sustain it. I have 'asked' for help so many times (as to what path to follow) and never seem to get an answer. My dreams are pretty crazy though, so perhaps I will ask for an answer there. I'm reading a book about shamanism at the moment that has woken all this up again, it has the sort of title I would normally be a bit sceptical about, mentioning spirits but hey, here I go again!
I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about, it just seemed to be about having a good imagination!
If you had been brought up in a native shamanic society then, yes, imagination would be one way of accessing communication with the spirits. In our culture, we are taught to use our imaginations in other ways. It’s a starting point. But, on a ‘taster’ you are not going to really feel the power of the spirits. I don’t do tasters. If people are going to learn to journey then they need to be given enough structure to be able to build on.
I can't seem to make the leap and sustain it.
Another reason for choosing your teacher carefully. This is a big step. Would you have a support network? Is there a local shamanic group in your area? Shamanism is not a solitary path, on the whole, and is hard to sustain unless you have a community who understands what you are doing. (It doesn’t have to be a physical community – for example, both North Yorkshire Shamanism and The Scandinavian Shamanic Center have on-line forums.)
it has the sort of title I would normally be a bit sceptical about, mentioning spirits but hey, here I go again!
Is the scepticism about the existence of spirits? Or about people’s ability to contact them? Either way, I don’t want to put you off, but these are exactly what shamanism is.
Hi mouse!
Your post resonated with me because I'm the same in that I have become interested in many different ways of being in the past, but the only one I've stuck with so far has been Reiki, which I continue to practise. I'm seriously looking into Shamanism at the moment - can I ask which book you're reading? Crowan, above, has written one which I'm in the process of reading, and I've ordered another by Michael Harner.
Hi there Kiga
I am reading a book called 'The Spirits Are Always With Me'. The book seems to be quite down to earth so far and intuitively I feel happy reading it!
I also did Reiki to the 'master' level (take the word with a pinch of salt in my case though 🙂 but have never practiced on anyone. I felt that I needed to believe 100% in my ability to help people and I couldn't!. I do think that Reiki can be a path of self development, it is not always just about 'healing'. The more 'sorted' you are the more you can help other people in your everyday life, even just by present......in any case that is my philosophy! It needn't be a 'system' of any kind. Reiki was interesting to do however, and it seemed to trigger some sort of vibration/energy sensation at the base of my spine/root of body which I have had ever since, and this caused me to wonder about Kundalini. It may have been the master 'initiation' or the fact that I was meditating, to be honest I don't know. I read the Michael Harner book you might be thinking about a long time ago (Way of the Shaman?) - also a gentle straightforward book I though.
Crowan - I think the scepticism is to do with wondering whether I am conjuring things up with imagination but also it might derive from fear.....This sort of stuff frightens me, I have actually seen a ghost in broad daylight some years ago and whenever I think about the reality of that I feel very scared. A community would be good, I will look into the groups you mentioned below, have always been a bit of loner but I can certainly see your point there.
I am reading a book called 'The Spirits Are Always With Me'. The book seems to be quite down to earth so far and intuitively I feel happy reading it!
I'm so glad that you are enjoying it!
Jane
Yes, what a coincidence! That's the book I'm reading at the moment, written by our very own Crowan (Jane)!
I've been looking at your Kundalini thread, mouse, in which it was suggested that you'd been guided to visit this site. Perhaps that holds true for both of us regarding Shamanism. 😉
How funny is that! I haven't looked on here for ages but just today thought I'd look to see if any interesting discussions on shamanism, being quite absorbed in the book I started yesterday, blimey, that is pretty coincidental 🙂
Oh, forgot to say, I am enjoying your book Crowan, I think there is a section on nature spirits? - I'm really interested in that, so looking forward to that bit!
Oh, forgot to say, I am enjoying your book Crowan, I think there is a section on nature spirits? - I'm really interested in that, so looking forward to that bit!
And one more 'coincidence'. I'll be off line all weekend, as I am teaching a workshop on Working with Nature Spirits.
I also did Reiki to the 'master' level (take the word with a pinch of salt in my case though 🙂 but have never practiced on anyone. An unfortunate aspect of Reiki. Mastership in reality takes years. This has giving Reiki a bad name. Contrary to popular belief, it's doesn't matter how many master attunements are given, it will never make a master.
I felt that I needed to believe 100% in my ability to help people and I couldn't!. I do think that Reiki can be a path of self development, it is not always just about 'healing'. Absolutely, I think people can be so fixated about being a "Reiki Healer" and forget about being a "Reiki Practitioner".
The more 'sorted' you are the more you can help other people in your everyday life, even just by present......in any case that is my philosophy! True It needn't be a 'system' of any kind. but 'systems' help to bridge the gap between form and function. The key is to drop what becomes unuseful as we develop.
Reiki was interesting to do however, and it seemed to trigger some sort of vibration/energy sensation at the base of my spine/root of body which I have had ever since, and this caused me to wonder about Kundalini. It may have been the master 'initiation' or the fact that I was meditating, to be honest I don't know. This is very common reaction. Reiki has triggered many people to explore themselves, within and without 😉
Best wishes
RP
.......and there was one more coincidence (!) a specific personal one that came up with further reading of Crowan's book, it was to do with spirits of the land. thanks for an interesting chat, people!!
🙂
I'm kind of new to the Shaman thing. I do not practice or consider myself a Shaman, but from what I understand, it's about transformation, namely from illness to health. The Shaman journeys to the underworld or upperworld in order to gain knowledge about a particular undesireable condition, and this knowledge when applied facilitates a change for the better.
I'm hearing you say that you believe that Shamanism will provide you with the proof you need. Based on my limited experience, I'm inclined to agree, but I'm not sure it's the best route to this proof, although it might be the most direct.
Unfortunately, when you open a door, it might be hard to close it, so I guess my question is why do you want proof?
I'm kind of new to the Shaman thing. I do not practice or consider myself a Shaman, but from what I understand, it's about transformation, namely from illness to health. The Shaman journeys to the underworld or upperworld in order to gain knowledge about a particular undesireable condition, and this knowledge when applied facilitates a change for the better.
I'm hearing you say that you believe that Shamanism will provide you with the proof you need. Based on my limited experience, I'm inclined to agree, but I'm not sure it's the best route to this proof, although it might be the most direct.
Unfortunately, when you open a door, it might be hard to close it, so I guess my question is why do you want proof?
Because I want to interact with something real as opposed to a mental construct.
Why do you think Shamanism would not be the best route to this proof?
Mouse, are you in contact with others who are at your stage in practising shamanism? I suggest that you go to a regular group such as the London Open Drumming Group which meets each month in Vauxhall.
I suggest this because many people go through this feeling of "I had a great experience on the workshop, but now it's faded and I'm not sure that I belive in it any more." (I hope I'm right in my interpretation.) and talking to peers (and journeying with peers) helps.
Another idea is, since your course was with Jonathan, to join the International Shamanic Community. At least then you'd be in email contact with others - possibly even others who were on the same course. (Of course, you might already have done this.)
My idea was to practice journeying and then think about contacting others (once I'd tested things out for myself and felt sure about things). In the end I became ill with this awful Vitamin D deficiency and this affected the journeys. I've stopped now until I get better. I need to feel that things are true before I join anything, and am quite shy about groups. The ISC sounds like a good bet for me later on. Thanks 🙂
Hi mouse,
I did say Shamanism might be the most direct rout to providing the proof you need. I said it mght not be the best, because it's so dangerous.
However, if you want proof that, say, telepathy is real, I do have an exercise that might give you that proof.
Start with birds. Listen to their bird song. Try to find the bird that's singing the song. If you can't see the bird, ask it to come out. It's better to ask out loud if possible, but I understand that's not always possible. Asking out loud works best. Just say "where are you?" I have found, the majority of the time, the bird will make an appearance.
In this way, you get to recognize the bird that goes with the song. At that point, let's say you hear the song of a robin, but you can't see the robin. Just say something like "Robin?" Or can you come out robin? Chances are it will.
When you see this happening over and over again, you will soon come to appreciate that birds are telepathic.
Also, once they're aware that you're giving them all this love, they will fall in love with you.
A power bird or two might even emerge from this exercise.
The crows and ravens are amazing this way.
Hi midnightsun
I'm intrigued as to why you think shamanism is dangerous, have you had experience of it being so?
The bird thing sounds like fun 🙂
Hi mouse,
I posted a thread in the Shaman forum "Advice Urgently Needed". It provides my account of the dangers I've encounterd in this endeavour.
I'm still working on closing the door. It's not easy to close the door, but I intend to. Just be super careful. Get good advice from good people who are into this. And if you do decide to go foward, make sure your "house" is in order.
Have fun with the birds. If anything happens, let me know!