[link= http://www.shamanlinks.net/Soul_Retrieval.htm ]http://www.shamanlinks.net/Soul_Retrieval.htm[/link]
The Free Soul
In the shamanism it is believed that part of the human soul is free to leave the body. The soul is the axis mundi, the center of the shamanic healing arts. Shamans change their state of consciousness allowing their free soul to travel and retrieve ancient wisdom and lost power.
Because a portion of the soul is free to leave the body it will do so when dreaming, or it will leave the body to protect itself from potentially damaging situations be they emotional or physical. In situations of trauma the soul piece may not return to the body on its own, and a shaman must intervene and return the soul essence.
Reasons For the Soul's Departure
There are various reasons for soul loss. If a person was in an abusive situation part of one's soul may leave to protect itself from the abuse. Sometimes as a child, fighting parents may prompt the soul part to hide because the child is scared.. If a traumatic accident is about to occur such as an impact or accident the soul would leave so that it wouldn't be effected by the force of the accident. If a loved one is lost, the soul part may go until the person is ready to deal with their grief. All of these are very healthy mechanisms of protection. In some cases the soul part will return on its own. But if it does not realize how to return, or if it does not know that it is safe to return - the shaman may need to assist the return of that missing piece.
Another way to lose ones soul is to give it to someone. When two people are in love, or when they are in a family, it is sometimes occurs that they will give portions of their soul to their loved one. A mother may give some to their child because they wish to protect him or her. This type of soul exchange may seem acceptable because of a person's desire to share themselves with another, it is not generally a good idea however. An individual can't use another person's soul, because simply: it is not their soul. The person must then deal with this unusable energy in addition to their own problems. In addition, the person has given a piece of their soul away and they have disempowered themselves. The giver's journey is made more difficult because they are not fully present to do the living of their life. It is a lose lose situation.
Because we are not taught about soul loss we do this soul sharing unconsciously. If an individual becomes more conscious of this dynamic they can find more empowering ways of sharing love and affection in their close relationships. You can see the language of soul loss in everyday speaking, people referring to how they "lost a piece of themselves" when they parted with a lover, or people saying "you stole my life from me."
Another reason for soul loss is called soul stealing, perhaps we should say borrowing. As we said before, the average person today is unconscious of the soul dynamic. So soul stealing can be innocent, you see someone with lots of energy and you want to borrow some of it. You are afraid of losing someone, so you take a piece of them with you so that you will always have him or her close by. Soul stealing can also be a way to dominate another. For instance soul stealing may be seen where an abusive spouse has taken his or her partner's soul. When you take someone's soul you take some of their power.
It is important to know that no one can take your soul without your consent. If someone has stolen your soul you have in some sense given it to them or allowed them to have it. If you feel for some reason that someone is tugging at your soul, make a firm decision within yourself they they cannot have it and they will not be able t
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
ORIGINAL: venetian
("Soul" is not "psyche" as psyche is a broader term, so psychology is not soul-study, it's psyche-study.)
Well it has become a broader term and taken out of context by mental health professionals in the same way as the word psychology has. I think Carl Jung explains the reason why we have these results today in his quotes listed above. Sorry David but modern pioneering psychologists with Phd's do not agree with you.
David do you believe that you can break the wheel of karma and rebirth? If you do perhaps you would like to explain how you believe this is done in your belief system.
There is a wonderful Jesus Sutra called 'Returning to your original nature' this information would have been in the original bible and if we view the Gospel of Thomas it is all about purification to achieve happiness.
this "soul" has to be transmuted till it doesn't exist .. unless we forever desire imperfection.
Well as transmute means to change in the dictionary I agree with you, we transmute through purification and yes then it does cease to be in its original form because it becomes one with the Spirit - a transmigration of the soul from one state of being to another. The state of perfection and purity another term would be moving from samsara to nirvana. The only illusion is seeing the purification in a negative way because the soul is meant to evolve in consciousness hence the true meaning of ascension. The soul ascends through purification like the phoenix rising from the ashes.
being love
Kim xx
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
"do you believe that you can break the wheel of karma and rebirth?"
I believe that of course, and so does every single system of thought dealing with karma and reincarnation or anything like it:
Buddhism = Nirvana
Hinduism = Moksha
Theosophy = Fifth Initiation
Twentieth century Ascended Master teachings = Ascension
Negative karma never needed to exist, and every culture accepting reincarnation believes it isn't forever - the whole point of each of their spiritual paths is to rise above and get beyond the rounds of rebirth. You can refer to each culture to discover how they go about it.
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
In short, to any impartial observer, and even as the lady herself began to realise, the supposed 'Cosmic Consciousness' people thought she had was depersonalisation disorder as a result of the growth!
... a cautionary tale about how quick people are to follow someout who's out of the norm!
Yes indeed, and as you most probably know, neuroscientistsare now able to induce intense feelings of spiritual transcendence combined with a sense of mystical presence by stimulating an area of the temporal lobe in an otherwise unreligious person.
Regards
Tucker
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
ORIGINAL: Sacredstar
Interesting that David mentions the word personality because Carl Jung often used the word personality when speaking of the soul. "Neither family nor society nor position can save man from his fate; nor yet the most successful adaptation to his environment, however smoothly he fits in. The development of personality (soul) is a favour that must be paid for dearly.
But the people who talk most loudly about developing their personalities (soul) are the very ones who are least mindful of the results, which are such as to frighten away weaker spirits. It also means fidelity to the law of one's own being. For the word "fidelity" I should prefer, in this context, the Greek used in the New Testement, which is erroneously translated "faith"". It literally means "trust", "trustful loyalty. Fidelity to the law of one's own being (Science of Being and the barometer of balance -v- imbalance) is a trust in this law, a loyal perseverance and confident hope; in short, an attitude such as a religious man should have towards God.” Carl Jung
Well, itis not surprising he said that; Jung slept with his female patients, was continually unfaithful to his wife. He was quite adamant that it would be injurious for women to step out of their traditionally defined roles. He was also guilty of racist comments. This is not meant to detract from his contribution to psychology but to illustrate that we all have our blind spots!
Regards
Tucker
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
On the whole ive found soul retreival extremly beneficial...both for myself and the occasional others i have helped in my own small way,
but i think a friend of mine who was studying for a degree in pyschology put it best by saying that she reckon she shifted more in an hour of soul retrieval than in several years of conventional psychotherapy that she had undergone.....admitting she was both gobsmacked and annoyed at the same time....annoyed having spent so much time and considerably more money on conventional therapy,
this to me speaks volumes rather than those who speak expertly on the subject but have never actually tried it themselves:D
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
Dear David
Thank you for the confirmation 5th initiation indeed:D However, you did not state how your belief system is helping you to reach the 5th initiation.
Dear Wolfen
Thank you for your contribution we have had comments like that too! So you and I must be on the right track. 😉
Dear Tucker
Well that was a bit below the belt about the supreme Mr Jung. It made me think of Socrates.
The philosophyof Socrates is good to keep in mind the next time you either hear or are about to repeat a rumour.
In ancient Greece (469 - 399 BC), Socrates was widely lauded for his wisdom. One day the great philosopher came upon an acquaintance who ran up to him excitedly and said, " Socrates , do you know what I just heard about one of your students?"
"Wait a moment," Socrates replied. "Before you tell me I'd like you to pass a little test. It's called the Triple Filter Test."
"Triplefilter?"
"That's right," Socrates continued. "Before you talk to me about my student let's take a moment to filter what you're going to say. The first filter is Truth.
Have you made absolutely sure that what you are about to tell me is true?" "No," the man said, "actually I just heard about it."
"All right," said Socrates . "So you don't really know if it's true or not. Now let's try the second filter, the filter of Goodness. Is what you are about to tell me about my student something good?"
"No, on the contrary ..."
"So," Socrates continued, "you want to tell me something bad about him,even though you're not certain it's true?" The man shrugged, a little embarrassed.
Socrates continued." You may still pass the test though, because there is a third filter - the filter of Usefulness. Is what you want to tell me about my student going to be useful to me?"
"No, not really ..."
"Well," concluded Socrates , "if what you want to tell me is neither True nor Good nor even Useful, why tell it to me at all?" The man was defeated and ashamed.
This is the reason Socrates was a great philosopher and held in such high esteem.
being love
Kim xx
EDIT PS
And on that note I would like to wish everyone a very Happy New Year and hope that we share greater wisdom during 2006 than we did in 2005. A clear demonstation of our evolvement. 😉
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
Hi Kim
ORIGINAL: Sacredstar
Well that was a bit below the belt about the supreme Mr Jung. It made me think of Socrates.
The philosophyof Socrates is good to keep in mind the next time you either hear or are about to repeat a rumour.
I long ago stopped meekly accepting the words of others without a critical evaluation of the source; context and background. Deconstruction is a useful tool to elucidate meaning and aid understanding. Jung was continually unfaithful to his wife, he transgressed ethical boundaries with his patients and his interest in Nazism is well documented by his biographers. And he held stong right wing views throughouthis life. This does not necessarily devalue his work, it shows he was a flawed human like the rest of us and a product of his time.
In the thread 'What is the difference betweena prophet and a medium' in the spirituality forum, you attempted a hatchet job on Madame Blavatsky after Venetian professed admiration for her. On 23 Noverber 2005, you wrote:
And I would say to you it matters not what wisdom HPB shared, if a person does not live in integrity with high moral standards and ethics they are not being spiritual at all. Instead they live in a cloud of illusion of what it means to be spiritual.....
While you may choose to venerate such a man as Jung, I'd rather have Blavatsky, who actually sounds like a proper game old bird!
Regards
Tucker
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
Well Jung did not profess to be on a spiritual path in what I have read, (although I have not read all of his works) he did not profess he knew the wisdom of the ages and therein is the difference in my eyes. Jung was much more like Plato a philosopher in that respect.
Jung has not been the source of a whole spiritual movement of humanity following in his footsteps; so in my eyes there is a huge difference between these two characters. HPB through Theosophy has had a huge impact on springboarding the New Age, a single belief system that many have bought into without thorough investigation into its origins and authenticity.
As we see from the original thread you mention, a great deal that was revealed was truth and useful; to those that have and are still being misled. I hope the contributions that both I and energyatwork posted encourage others to carry out their own investigations as they proceed along the path.
Only then will they know further truth and whether this truth is good.
"Life experience is the supreme text of knowledge" from Sacred Words
Love beyond measure
Kim xx
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
ORIGINAL: Sacredstar
Well Jung did not profess to be on a spiritual path in what I have read,
Read more, then before quoting? He did so profess, and wrote that he regretted having spent his life in psychology, as he later realised that the Path of personal alchemy as he called it (personal change) was more important than anything he had wasted his life on.
V
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
I'd rather have Blavatsky, who actually sounds like a proper game old bird!
Regards
Tucker
a fitting epitath for any woman ?...LOL:D
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
ORIGINAL: venetian
wrote that he regretted having spent his life in psychology, as he later realised that the Path of personal alchemy as he called it (personal change) was more important than anything he had wasted his life on.
V
well thats pretty much where my friend was at.....she ditched studying for her degree in psychology and is now an accreditted 'journey' therapist of brandon bays fame, having tried this myself recently it was pretty much identical to the 'soul retrival' work ive done...
which i guess brings round the question how much retrieval does one need?....well everytime ive done it i always bring back something...and often something id completly forgotton id lost but happy and more whole that ive reclaimed it again.:)
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
ORIGINAL: venetian
Well Jung did not profess to be on a spiritual path in what I have read.
Read more, then before quoting? He did so profess, and wrote that he regretted having spent his life in psychology, as he later realised that the Path of personal alchemy as he called it (personal change) was more important than anything he had wasted his life on.V
Correction what he actually said was he wished he had spent his life studying mysticism and the spiritual instead of psychology/mind which we now call old psychology alongside old theology which has nothing to do with new physics, new biology and new science. Hence why new psychology is being launched. It was through his own personal change that made him come to this realisation and he actually wrote a channelled book which he asked to be published after his death because he did not wish it to have a detrimentall impact on his career with the (in the dark ages) scientific community at the time. It was only yesterday that I discovered that he was very close to the work that I have been guided to do in recent years. He had been led to the word.......and using the word to get to the root causes of the core issues. 😀 How do we know people have soul loss? By the words that they use.
I love this one!
Carl Jung asserted. ‘It is clear beyond doubt that many of the Gnostics were nothing more than psychologists. Freud wrote “All my life I have been working and studying to find these things, and these people knew it already.’ 😀 Freud was spot on, we do know it already......my life! 😀
It is also written that the Essenes were also psychologists so what did these spiritual groups have in common? They lived knowingly in conscious awareness of the evidence of their experience in harmony and balance with nature’s natural spiritual laws. They knew that ‘energy follows thought’ and revelation could be found everywhere when one is open to the revelation of nature – their own and the environment in which they lived and co-created. One of the reasons the Gnostics were branded heretics was because the early church fathers did not believe that they received revelation every day. So if I personally resonate with anyone, like Jung it has to be the Gnostics. 😉
Gnosis
Dear Wolfen
I heard they teach a lot of maths in psychology and I have no idea what that has got to with it unless of course they included sacred geometry which of course they don't. However, maybe in the future; as the sacred geometry is all tied up with the new physics.
I think it will be fascinating to watch it all evolve between now and 2012 once the educators of the educators start passing on the new physics, new biology, new science and new psychology.
Onwards and upwards soaring like eagles......
Kim xx
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
ORIGINAL: Sacredstar
Correction what he actually said was he wished he had spent his life studying mysticism and the spiritual
Correction that is whatI wrote, in Jung's own style, as he called that alchemy. (If you read his books on that.)
BTW please don't hoist Freud of all people [&:]upon us in the same post (!) as Jung, as they were utterly at odds in the end, and Freud worked with even less integrity than Jung - whose flaws are cited above by Tucker. Freud treated some ofhis female patients for "hysteria" since he got paid for it, when all along he knew that they were being sexually abused by their fathers - who were paying him. That's there in the up-to-date biogs of him.
As Tucker says, and I agree, it takes nothing away from Jung's work. But it is peculiar IMO that you wouldn't accept the plain, English-language truth of his life and tendencies, and I take it you simply took it as personal points scored against you, which I am sure Tucker did not mean but rather just to state facts. Facts are truth, and the truth is kinda worth knowing.
V
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
ORIGINAL: venetian
BTW please don't hoist Freud of all people [&:] upon us in the same post (!) as Jung
I quoted a conversation between Jung and Freud about gnostics and the fact that they were both in agreement that people like myself already knew what they spent their lives studying e.g. Spiritual Psychology of which returning soul fragements is a part.
as they were utterly at odds in the end
Totally agree they went their separate ways just like many people do. Their work together was finished.
Freud worked with even less integrity than Jung
Totally agree I think you are all missing the point and getting hung up on the characters instead of listening to the message.
As Tucker says, and I agree, it takes nothing away from Jung's work. But it is peculiar IMO that you wouldn't accept the plain, English-language truth of his life and tendencies
Your perception seen through your own lens and nothing could be further from the truth I embrace all strengths and human weakness and can see strength in peoples weaknesses too! We do not know both sides of the story so i do not judge him; its amazing how many men stay married to their wives yet their wives do not honour their husbands in many ways. I am doing a lot of work with men at the moment who are hanging onto relationships that neither fulfill or do them justice. A man once told me a story of how his wife never held him, never made love to him and was frigid. How she would discuss relationships with a clip board on her lap how unloving is that! Who knows what went on behind closed doors? Jung might have been like this man tender, warm, loving and giving. I certainly see this sensibility and sensitivity in his work and his sincere wish to understand all that troubles humanity. However, your concentration on the characters life instead of the message, IS where we are poles apart.
and I take it you simply took it as personal points scored against you
Not at all, I just find it amusing :Dthat when a man feels he has lost the debate he then does his best to undermine a character who cannot defend himself instead of staying on topic. There are no winners and losers in my domain just discussion so once again this comes from your own negative perceptional consciousness. Why do men talk about point scoring ? With respect this is a past life repetitive karmic programme running in the unconscious. It has nothing to do with point scoring it is about discussion of Soul Retrieval and a psychologist that believed in soul loss through the evidence of his own experience of working with clients. That experience is supereminent compared with your own lack of experience with this therapy.
which I am sure Tucker did not mean but rather just to state facts. Facts are truth, and the truth is kinda worth knowing.
Facts are great but you do not know the other side of the story and nor do I e.g. what Jung had to put up with in his marriage.
Happy New Year David may love illuminate your life.
Kim xx
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
"There are no winners and losers in my domain just discussion so once again this comes form your own negative perceptional consciousness."
To rephrase that in normal converse, "your domain" is your opinion, that short and simpleand, Oh and BTW, I think it is very helpful for you to assert that one should not put a negative upon another ... but it's a pity that without taking breath you do so yourself? On many.
I think many people are trying to be polite hereas much as they can, but finding hard, LOL
V
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
:Dmy domain is a chilled out space and not an opinion. 😀
Onwards and upwards David flying divine.
being love
Kim xx
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
Hi Wolfen
Just to let you know that I am not against soul retrieval/past life regression/therapy. Whatever floats your boat! If you have a problem, try anything (if it feels right for you). Listen to what the universe is telling you, everyone has their own path, we're all on a journey. Yee ha!
Regards
Tucker
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
Hi Kim
ORIGINAL: Sacredstar
Facts are great but you do not know the other side of the story and nor do I e.g. what Jung had to put up with in his marriage.
So, it's ok to be adulterous if your spouse drives you to it! 'Blaming the Victim' went out in the seventies, Kim.
However, in this case Emma undoubtedly loved Jung and he loved her. And by all accounts, she was an admirable wife and mother. She was the daughter of a wealthy industrialist and provided him with wealth and financial independence whereas he was from a poor family. But there is no doubt that he was unfaithful to her and this caused her and their children much pain, in his own words:
The pre-requisite of a good marriage, it seems to me, is the licence to be unfaithful. (The Freud/Jung letters, 289, 30 January 1910)
So does this negate Jung's work? Because in your own words:
And I say to you it matters not what wisdom HPB shared, if a person does not live in intregity with high moral standards and ethics they are not being spiritual at all. Instead they live in a cloud of illusion of what it means to be spiritual... (What is the difference between a prophet and a medium? 23 November 2005)
Jung is a complex character. Often called a founder of the 'New Age' along with HPB and Gurdjieff. He read extensivelyon occultism, alchemy, gnosticism, mythology, astrology etc.and has been described as 'not so much as a psychological pioneer but the charismatic leader of a religious cult' such is the adoration of his followers.
Regards
Tucker
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
I have just come back online after a festive break
We seem to have gone away from shamanism as such and moved into a pholosophical /religious debate
Please continue the debate in a more appropriate forum
thanks
tigress
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
I am not blaming anyone Tucker what I am saying is it takes two to tango.
I agree Tigress thank you.
kim xx
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
OK Tigress
It's a fair cop, guv!
Regards
Tucker
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
could'nt agree with you more on all counts tucker.....tho i think its was kim who originally threw religion into the mix.....which shamanism has little to do with if poss., buts thats another story.
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
Dear Wolfen well I added one single line from a man that was probably the most powerful Shaman that ever walked the planet. I would hardly say that was introducing religion into the subject when it was combined with a range of other quotes supporting soul loss.
being love
kim xx
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
Hi Wolfen,
I'm sincerely and honestly interested....
I'm not aware of any real clear-cut definitions defining a shaman from many great religious founders. (Yes, I do agree that you actually can see fairly obvious differences - IMO.) But how in words would one actually define one as being different to the other? I'm thinking along the lines that at times there is at least some overlap, if only minor. (And I'm thinking of the religious founders - not what may later become of the religions.)
Not sure if I've expressed myself perfectly well: I agree on the difference, but would be hard-put to find a brief definition of how the two differ that wouldn't be controversial and offend either 'side'.
Thanks,
Venetian
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
Not wishing to get too deep into religion here as there has already been a heads up from the mod.
but i would like to say that jesus[if thats who kim is refering to] had nothing to do with religion and was generally at odds with and thru no direct fault of his own made enemys within the religions prevelent at his time....., he simply called what he did as 'the way'.....christianity was a term that came much later, i expect this statement will ruffle a few feathers here and their but thats okay....to those i would say what is the very essence of the religion that you cling too?
Now from a shamanic perspective many will be aware that their is a heavy overlay of christianity in many shamanic traditions around the world, notable examples are the afro-carribian and the mexican traditions......the reason being is that if they did'nt pay homage to this religion then the church would come along and shut them down by force....and this STILL happens even now in parts of the world like mexico for instance and i find it utterly deplorable...
dont get me wrong tho as many shamanic people including myself recognise jeshua/sanada as a 'christed' being but their is a big difference to accepting something than there is having something forced upon you at pain of death or severe punishment.
what is the difference between shamanism and religion ?.....well one seeks to allow a being to express their true and complete potential.....the other seeks to control and manipulate, i hear of change within the church from others but its the same old shapeshift at an attempt to re-allign themselves into a better position to manipulate....believe me these people do not want to give up their power and control that they have weilded for millenia !.....and whilst they continue to walk hand in hand with corrupt govenments/polliticians then nothing will change,
if churches really care about humanity then sell your lands, sell your propertys, sell your fine robes and ornaments and then use the proceeds to help the needy and destitute!.....this is exactly why jeshua owned nothing but a pair of sandals and the shirt on his back !
jeshua said everything i can do you can do and more and that statement annoyed the dark powers that be then as it does now......they never ever want this to happen and every enlightened being be it jeshua, buddha, osho, socrates, galileo, pythagorus, john lennon, they all have been killed off....but then this is the risk that every spiritual warrior must take if we have any hope of humanity reaching its true spiritual potential.
here ends the rant 😀
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
Whats all this got to do with soul retrieval ?.....religion is, and has been responserble for a great deal of soul theft and its up to each and every one of us the reclaim our divinity and true connection to the creator.
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
Hi Wolfen,
If there's a concern that mods don't wish to compare shamanism with religion, then OK - we'd better leave that subject. Except to repeat I was asking about the founders. Any organisation, be it a religion, a political party, or an industrial firm can go wrong at times. One reason I was asking is that while there is fairly large difference between such rare founders and shamans, purely IMHO shamans don't by any means reach up to the same high level in consciousness.
BTW not all in your list of figures were killed off. Some passed on naturally. There have been past HP threads on Osho and the abuse he was responsible for BTW, which I won't go into here. As for Lennon, I loved his stuff at that time but it's now well-known that he could be very violent, and there's evidence he had to live with the guilt of killing his best friend Stu Sutcliff in a violent attack - so TBH I'd not put him in the same company. In live concerts he even changed the words of his songs to say for e.g. that he was ambiguous on whether revolution whould be through peace or by violence. On violent revolution he sang live, "Count me out ... in." Sorry - off-topic (!)unless maybe we count him asa shaman! :)- but worth bearing in mind. A complex character very quick to turn on people.
Venetian
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
Wolfen I agree with every word that you have said and I have nothing more to add at this point.
being love
Kim xx
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
ORIGINAL: wolfen
Whats all this got to do with soul retrieval ?.....religion is, and has been responserble for a great deal of soul theft and its up to each and every one of us the reclaim our divinity and true connection to the creator.
Totally agree soul loss in past lives comes up a lot due to people being persecuted for their beliefs in past lives. Its been amazing how many people have been blocked from accomplishing their reason for being due to these kinds of blockages that held them back unconsciously.
There has been far too many crimes against humanity in the name of religions and beliefs and sadly we still witness it in the 21st century.
being love
Kim xx
RE: Soul Retrieval. Learning
ORIGINAL: Tucker
Therapy is generally required for at least 2 years, but usually 6+. DID is often caused by severe, prolonged and extreme childhood abuse of the satanic ritual abuse variety. Be prepared for the most horrific disclosures you will everhear so it is important to have good supervision/support in place. Be aware of the satanic calendar as there are significant dates for all survivors, though some may be personal (eg date of death). Be aware that triggers may have been implanted.
I knew this topic had come up somewhere. Found it! 😉
With regard to the above I stated that IMO it exists but is very rare. The spate of such 'cases', supposedly common,needing years of 'treatment' was exposed as said some years back. I thought I'd chip in to say if anyone is interested it looks like there's an expose on this tonight:
"When Satan Came To Town", BBC1, Wednesday 11 Jan, 9.00 pm. Though I see it's limited apparently to Rochdale and only sixteen children whose parents are now suing the council. In fact similar cases of what I'd call 'abuse through semi-deliberate wrong diagnosis of Satanic abuse on an organised scale' [ATSDWDOSAOAOS, LOL] showed up in several parts of England at that time.
Worth watching if anybody has forgotten these types of cases and accepts all claims of 'satanic abuse'.
Venetian