Shamanic journeying for balance...

Hello, Mouse,

Can I first say that shamanism is my life, my reason for being, and I realise that others might see me as coming over rather too strongly. If this is so for you, please feel free to ignore. I do know that not everyone takes it as seriously as I do – and there’s no reason that they should.

I have had bouts of depression since I was very young – about 8 or 9. They plagued me through my teens and through my twenties. Shamanism alone helped, but shamanic counselling and soul retrieval got rid of the depression totally in my mid-thirties. Disconnection from life is a main symptom of soul loss.

May I ask what workshops you have done and with whom? Am I remembering correctly that you did an Introductory weekend with Jonathan Horwitz? What else have you done? And the reading?

Different people get different things from shamanism and, if they then start teaching, this is reflected in what they teach. Some simply haven’t the experience to teach widely, they just teach what they were taught. Others will be interested in healing, of humans or other animals. Some will be interested in dealing with dead souls. Others work with land spirits. And some simply treat teaching as a money making exercise. What I’m trying to say with this is – while I believe shamanism could help you – not every shamanic teacher will be able to.

‘Believing’ is something everyone has problems with to begin with. Even those who believe wholeheartedly in the spirits still doubt their own ability to contact them. “How do I know I’m not making it up?” is the most common question I get on Introductory workshops.

Think about what you want from shamanism? Sometimes people assume that there is a straight line from an Introductory workshop to ‘being a shaman’, but this is not so. Where would you hope to be with shamanism after, let’s say, five years? Because, wherever that is will inform how you get there, and with which teacher(s).

I think you are in London? There is a group (they are called ‘drumming groups’, but they are actually journeying groups) that meets monthly in Vauxhall. This kind of group can be very helpful for keeping your practice ‘ticking over’ and you would meet others, some with years of experience and others just beginning. Some, possibly, with the same concerns that you have.

I hope that this helps a little.

Jane

Hi Crowan,

I think you are fortunate to have found your path and it's good that you have gained so much from it 🙂

I have been thinking about what I want from shamanism. The nearest I can put into words is that I feel a deep need for contact /communication with something other than the material world. There is a sense of being out of balance without this contact,as if something profound is missing. I've had this feeling most of my life and often wonder how many other people feel this, it's like being bereft. My other half sometimes jokes that he is anchoring me to the earth like a balloon as I'm so often not properly here 🙂 Also feel that the lack of balance is connected to me getting ill so often.

Yes, I did an introductory workshop with Jonathan Horwitz and followed this up with journeying on my own for a while. Also had 4 sessions or so of shamanic healing at a later time. As far as books go, can't remember all of them but the ones that stand out are: Arnold Mindell's 'The Shaman's Body', Hilary Webb's 'Exploring Shamanism' and 'Conversations with Contemporary Shaman's' and I've read The Way of the Shaman. Also enjoyed Breaking Open the Head by Daniel Pinchbeck (although this is about other things as well).

It may well be that shamanism is not the way for this 'contact' to happen for me, I'm not sure, if it was I think I'd know by now... Am nervous about joining groups as not too confident socially, I'd also feel like a fraud as find it hard to believe.

Have also been thinking about a technique called 'active imagination' where you use certain techniques to explore dreams and your inner world (some years back I did a foundation course in art therapy and this was part of the course). There is a crossover with art there as I've been an artist off and on and miss the feeling of being absorbed in art and exploring what is in my head, Seem unable to sustain doing any work though, I just lose belief or give up on everything I try!

Hi, Mouse,

I understand completely your first paragraph and I do think that shamanism could help you – as I have seen it help many – if you are prepared to give it a chance.

Shamanism is not something you can pick up quickly, by yourself or from one workshop. The techniques of journeying that you learn on an introductory workshop (basically, how to journey) are taught so that you know what to do as you take the studying further. I know what Jonathan’s introductory covers – essentially the same as mine – so I can say with confidence that you will not have learned yet to:

• form a good intention for your journey, one that will enable the spirits to answer the question that you want answering.
• successfully interpret the journey so as to understand the answers that the spirits are giving.
• understand the relationship between power and of energy.
• understand the difference between your own spirit helper(s) and other spirits.
• how to remain safe in the spirit worlds.

These are things that you need but which are not covered by introductory workshops.

Have you connected with your power animal? How close do you feel to him/her/it?

Have you met a spirit teacher?

Do you feel that your journeys are clear enough to describe as a narrative, or are they more impression?

Do you write down all your journeys?

You say that you ‘journeyed on your own for a while’. What were the intentions (sometimes called ‘mission statements’) of these journeys? Did you get answers?

When you went for the healing, what happened? I seem to remember that you had a soul retrieval – is that right? When and why had the soul part gone? Where was it? And what were the conditions of it coming back? Have you fulfilled those conditions? How were you told to integrate the part? You might not want to share details like this with me, but you ought to be able to answer them for yourself.

Shamanism is a bit like driving – first lesson you get in the car, learn where the pedals are and drive around the block at 15 mph. This does not qualify you to drive down the M6 on a Friday teatime. (Okay, maybe that analogy needs a bit more work, but you see where I’m going with it?)

I hope all this helps,

Jane

So Shamanism is more like a way of life than a therapy to be used as and when???

So Shamanism is more like a way of life than a therapy to be used as and when???

Absolutely. Hence my campaign when I first joined HP to get it shifted out of 'Therapies'.
I class it as a 'belief system' and answer 'shamanism' to the question, 'What is your religion?'

Having said that, there are people who teach it simply as a healing therapy. This is laziness on their part (or possibly on the part of the people who taught them). A lot of people have done a few workshops and then decided to teach what they think they have learned, assuming that that is all there is to it. I have known three people over the years who set themselves up as teachers as soon as they'd done one introductory workshop. I knew one person who set her self up as a 'shamanic healer' without having done any training at all - didn't know what a journey was, let alone a power animal!

And, of course, clients (I don't like the word in this context, but I can't think of a better one) come because they want to be 'made better' and they assume that a shamanic healer will do that. So people come, I do an extraction and a soul retrieval (or whatever they need) and they go away. Of course they view it as a therapy. But real healing comes through the person's understanding of the connection with the spirits and the love of the spirits, which leads to trust and surrender, in turn leading to that person being able to put themselves completely into the hands of the spirits - which is where the healing is. The healer's job is to enable that to happen.

Many teachers - some of them very powerful healers and very good and wise people see healing others as the main path within shamanism. However, I remember a friend (a woman who had, like me, trained with Jonathan Horwitz for many years and had been seeing clients for healing for fewer, but still many, years) who took herself to the United States for a 'Pan-American Conference'. Shamans had come from all over North and South America. She was the only European. She was the only non-native shaman. And she was the person there who had done most healing. Because this is a society which is out of balance and where many people need healing. The others all lived in native societies and their main job was keeping the community in balance. Because their communities were in balance, less actual healing was needed.

I spend my time keeping myself and my home in balance - as far as I can in an unbalanced society - and that is what I teach; connection with the spirits and with the land and the balance that flows from this connection.

Jane

Hi, Mouse,

I understand completely your first paragraph and I do think that shamanism could help you – as I have seen it help many – if you are prepared to give it a chance.

Shamanism is not something you can pick up quickly, by yourself or from one workshop. The techniques of journeying that you learn on an introductory workshop (basically, how to journey) are taught so that you know what to do as you take the studying further. I know what Jonathan’s introductory covers – essentially the same as mine – so I can say with confidence that you will not have learned yet to:

• form a good intention for your journey, one that will enable the spirits to answer the question that you want answering.
• successfully interpret the journey so as to understand the answers that the spirits are giving.
• understand the relationship between power and of energy.
• understand the difference between your own spirit helper(s) and other spirits.
• how to remain safe in the spirit worlds.

These are things that you need but which are not covered by introductory workshops.

Have you connected with your power animal? How close do you feel to him/her/it?

Have you met a spirit teacher?

Do you feel that your journeys are clear enough to describe as a narrative, or are they more impression?

Do you write down all your journeys?

You say that you ‘journeyed on your own for a while’. What were the intentions (sometimes called ‘mission statements’) of these journeys? Did you get answers?

When you went for the healing, what happened? I seem to remember that you had a soul retrieval – is that right? When and why had the soul part gone? Where was it? And what were the conditions of it coming back? Have you fulfilled those conditions? How were you told to integrate the part? You might not want to share details like this with me, but you ought to be able to answer them for yourself.

Shamanism is a bit like driving – first lesson you get in the car, learn where the pedals are and drive around the block at 15 mph. This does not qualify you to drive down the M6 on a Friday teatime. (Okay, maybe that analogy needs a bit more work, but you see where I’m going with it?)

I hope all this helps,

Jane

Hi Crowan,

When I did the introductory workshop I do remember being told about having a clear intention and that it was important to write down the journey afterwards. The slight difficulty I had, and still have from returning to journeying today, was losing concentration so things become fuzzy. I seem to 'zone out' part way through the journey and have to force myself to focus. The journeys move between narrative and impression. I noticed today that when I am more 'there' that touch is an important sensory aspect in the journeys (which I'd forgotten as I haven't journeyed for 2-3 years). Did connect with a power animal then and now there are several different ones.

I can hardly remember the healing now, which sounds bad I know. I do know that it didn't help, if anything things got worse. I think what I was told to do I found hard to actually carry out, it wasn't a major thing but there didn't seem to be a way to do it. There was one odd thing; for about half a day after one session I was buzzing with life and connected to everything and then that feeling suddenly went (!) It might be that it was not the right time to do it; I think we tend to think we are more in control of things than we are.

Will try again with journeying, starting right back at the beginning.

It would be brilliant if anyone out there wants to discuss their experiences of journeying, perhaps we could start a new thread?

Thanks for your comments, I understand what you are saying about shamanism taking some time to learn of course. At this stage I will be happy to learn how to journey well 🙂

Absolutely. Hence my campaign when I first joined HP to get it shifted out of 'Therapies'.
I class it as a 'belief system' and answer 'shamanism' to the question, 'What is your religion?'
Jane

I get this. I each tai chi...and wear a T shirt with the logo 'Tai chi qigong - a way of life' because qigong isn't something to be done once a week - i needs to be integrated into your life.

Hi Crowan,

When I did the introductory workshop I do remember being told about having a clear intention and that it was important to write down the journey afterwards. The slight difficulty I had, and still have from returning to journeying today, was losing concentration so things become fuzzy. I seem to 'zone out' part way through the journey and have to force myself to focus. The journeys move between narrative and impression. I noticed today that when I am more 'there' that touch is an important sensory aspect in the journeys (which I'd forgotten as I haven't journeyed for 2-3 years).

Different people journey in different ways. Some use touch, some see well, others find their journeys are mainly auditory - to begin with. It all evens out finally and you find you can use all your senses, including taste and smell. When I started I could not hear anything. My spirit teacher would write in sand or earth, so that I could read what she wanted to tell me. It took me a while for my hearing to kick in.

May I suggest that you equip yourself with a means of listening to the drumming (I assume you use a CD or an MP3 file - is that right?) through earphones, and a means of recording your voice. Then speak the journey out loud. First, it's easier to focus that way. Second, you won't forget what happened. Third, you can't then dismiss the thoughts that come in as 'random'. They could well be part of the answer. Then, afterwards, listen back to the recording. Then write it down.

What are the intentions that you are journeying on?

Did connect with a power animal then and now there are several different ones.

Is there one specific power animal that you really get on well with? The power of shamanism resides largely in the relationship you have with your spirit friends.

I can hardly remember the healing now, which sounds bad I know. I do know that it didn't help, if anything things got worse. I think what I was told to do I found hard to actually carry out, it wasn't a major thing but there didn't seem to be a way to do it. There was one odd thing; for about half a day after one session I was buzzing with life and connected to everything and then that feeling suddenly went (!) It might be that it was not the right time to do it; I think we tend to think we are more in control of things than we are.

If you didn't do what was requested of you then the healing did not come to a conclusion and it is not surprising that you felt worse afterwards. Did you know, when the shamanic practitioner asked you to do it, that you would not be able to? Did you tell the practitioner this?

Will try again with journeying, starting right back at the beginning.

Good idea. Go back to the notes you made on the introductory workshop and try working through the journeys that Jonathan gave.

It would be brilliant if anyone out there wants to discuss their experiences of journeying, perhaps we could start a new thread?

That would be good if there's anyone else out there journeying. Failing that, start the thread, I'll join in and we'll see where it goes.

Thanks for your comments, I understand what you are saying about shamanism taking some time to learn of course. At this stage I will be happy to learn how to journey well 🙂

No problem at all. My other suggestion is that you do a follow up course that will teach you to journey more confidently. Jonathan's "Into the journey" would be ideal, but he is doing very few courses in the UK now. You could do it in Sweden, but I'm guessing that seems a long way to go at this stage. I do a course, "Deepening our connection", which also is a follow on from the introductory, but Wales might be rather far for you as well. There are people in London who might do similar - the Core Shamanic Practitioners' Circle meets next month. I'll ask if anyone is doing anything in or around London.

I also really recommend that you find out about the London Open Drumming Group, the one that meets in Vauxhall. You would get both regular practice (the people who run it are very experienced and helpful), and to meet others who practice shamanism. If you are interested, tell me and I'll PM you the email address of the person in charge.

I get this. I each tai chi...and wear a T shirt with the logo 'Tai chi qigong - a way of life' because qigong isn't something to be done once a week - i needs to be integrated into your life.

I did Tai chi for a while. It didn't grip me, but my partner loved it. She kept it up for many years, until her brain operation which destroyed her balance - she's mostly in a wheelchair now. She still does some seated qigong. We are both convinced that without the tai chi her balance would be even worse.

Different people journey in different ways. Some use touch, some see well, others find their journeys are mainly auditory - to begin with. It all evens out finally and you find you can use all your senses, including taste and smell. When I started I could not hear anything. My spirit teacher would write in sand or earth, so that I could read what she wanted to tell me. It took me a while for my hearing to kick in.

May I suggest that you equip yourself with a means of listening to the drumming (I assume you use a CD or an MP3 file - is that right?) through earphones, and a means of recording your voice. Then speak the journey out loud. First, it's easier to focus that way. Second, you won't forget what happened. Third, you can't then dismiss the thoughts that come in as 'random'. They could well be part of the answer. Then, afterwards, listen back to the recording. Then write it down.

What are the intentions that you are journeying on?
Is there one specific power animal that you really get on well with? The power of shamanism resides largely in the relationship you have with your spirit friends.
If you didn't do what was requested of you then the healing did not come to a conclusion and it is not surprising that you felt worse afterwards. Did you know, when the shamanic practitioner asked you to do it, that you would not be able to? Did you tell the practitioner this?
Good idea. Go back to the notes you made on the introductory workshop and try working through the journeys that Jonathan gave.

That would be good if there's anyone else out there journeying. Failing that, start the thread, I'll join in and we'll see where it goes.

No problem at all. My other suggestion is that you do a follow up course that will teach you to journey more confidently. Jonathan's "Into the journey" would be ideal, but he is doing very few courses in the UK now. You could do it in Sweden, but I'm guessing that seems a long way to go at this stage. I do a course, "Deepening our connection", which also is a follow on from the introductory, but Wales might be rather far for you as well. There are people in London who might do similar - the Core Shamanic Practitioners' Circle meets next month. I'll ask if anyone is doing anything in or around London.

I also really recommend that you find out about the London Open Drumming Group, the one that meets in Vauxhall. You would get both regular practice (the people who run it are very experienced and helpful), and to meet others who practice shamanism. If you are interested, tell me and I'll PM you the email address of the person in charge.

Thanks, I will try recording the journeys as I go. The last time I journeyed regularly (2-3 years ago) there was one power animal, and I was just getting to know them. I've only done one journey so far, having just returned to it, and this animal is no longer around so far (sadly because it was really something). Instead I saw 4 others, all new to me.

As far as the healing went, I didn't know I couldn't do what was asked of me. It seemed simple but there was never a way, there seemed to be no room in my life for it. Mostly, I think I found it hard to believe that it would help. Anyway, that is past now.

I will keep an eye out for courses. For now I just want to continue with the journeying and see what it can teach me. Just doing this is a good thing for me - I have such a problem with committing myself to anything and allowing myself to believe that doing this properly would be a good achievement and who knows where it would go. I'm working my way through various problems in my life at the moment - slowly but surely - so will get there in the end.

A little update; have now done 2 journeys since returning to it and have to say I felt a deep sense of calm after the one I did yesterday. The teachings are quite deep however so I have much to learn...

A little update; have now done 2 journeys since returning to it and have to say I felt a deep sense of calm after the one I did yesterday. The teachings are quite deep however so I have much to learn...

This is good.
I have a client staying for 4 days intensive at the moment, so I've just grabbed a moment to come online. I'll be back for a reasonable length of time on Thursday evening. But it sounds as if you are doing fine.

This is good.
I have a client staying for 4 days intensive at the moment, so I've just grabbed a moment to come online. I'll be back for a reasonable length of time on Thursday evening. But it sounds as if you are doing fine.

Yes, I am. Another beautiful journey today 🙂

Just wanted to say that I joined the drumming group, went along and had a good day. It was interesting, met some nice people and felt very comfortable (for me!) there so that was good. I am happy to be involved with shamanism 🙂

Just wanted to say that I joined the drumming group, went along and had a good day. It was interesting, met some nice people and felt very comfortable (for me!) there so that was good. I am happy to be involved with shamanism 🙂

I am so pleased!