umm
it has just occured to me... and i have no idea why it took me so long but i would have placed shamanism into the forum on religion, not in the therapy forum.
certainly all of the athropological sources on amerindian traditions i have read use the word religion, not "therapy" to describe all aspects of the culture's views about causality and a medicine man is considered to be central to this view; he is a holy man not just a therapist.
any comments?
peace and love
norbu
Yes, I agree. The Shaman is usually seen as the Holy Man in most tribal societies.
Well the grouping has always been like that, as it was on the old forum.
I think the Religions/Faiths forum tends to relate to those that are, what would be termed by others as, "recognized religions" within the UK (where Healthypages originates).
As such Shamanism is probably seen as a "practice" and as such has a forum of it's own.
If you were to take it to the largest extent you could class Scientific Matters as a religion because science is based on belief. 😉
Love and Reiki Hugs
By my definition, shamanism is not a religion because it's an individual practice without rules imposed by an over-arching body.
But having said that, in Siberia where it is being revived after being forced underground for decades, it is re-emerging in some cases along the old lines of soviet organisations. And ironically, if they put "religious" in their title, these organisations are more likely to be recognised by the state.
Indeed, I'm a member of two associations of shamans there. But while shamans in these organisations are highly individual in their individual work, there are signs in some other associations of rules being invented and imposed.
A shaman's role in Siberia is to be an omni-competent therapist - a hard gig to carry out, of course.
In Tuva, some are also Buddhist. Indeed, one of my teachers is also a lama.
But most shamans there regard shamanism as something different - and not a religion.
Mac
hi
some dictionary definitions of shamanism:
from mirriam-webster online
Main Entry: sha·man·ism
Pronunciation: -"ni-z&m
Function: noun
: a religion practiced by indigenous peoples of far northern Europe and Siberia that is characterized by belief in an unseen world of gods, demons, and ancestral spirits responsive only to the shamans; also : any similar religion
from webster online
Shamanism
Noun
1. Any animistic religion similar to Asian shamanism especially as practiced by certain Native American tribes.
2. An animistic religion of northern Asia having the belief that the mediation between the visible and the spirit worlds is effected by shamans.
Shamanism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Shamanism refers to a range of traditional beliefs and practices concerned with communication with the spirit world. There are many variations in shamanism throughout the world, though there are some beliefs that are shared by all forms of shamanism:
- The spirits can play important roles in human lives.
- The shaman can control and/or cooperate with the spirits for the community's benefit.
- The spirits can be either good or bad.
- Shamans engage various processes and techniques to incite trance; such as: singing, dancing, taking entheogens, meditating and drumming.
- Animals play an important role, acting as omens and message-bearers, as well as representations of animal spirit guides.
- The shaman's spirit leaves the body and enters into the supernatural world during certain tasks.
- The shamans can treat illnesses or sickness.
- Shamans are healers, psychics, gurus and magicians.
- The most important object is the drum;[citation needed] it symbolizes many things to a shaman. Sometimes drums are decorated with rattles, bells or bones to represent different spirits and animals, depending on the region and the community.
and from camridge dictionary online
shaman
noun [C]
in particular religions, a person who has special powers to control or influence good and evil spirits (= beings which cannot be seen), which enables them to discover the cause of illness, bad luck, etc.
shamanism
noun
a form of religion which includes a belief in the power of the shaman
i guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion 😉
peace and love
norbu
umm
it has just occured to me... and i have no idea why it took me so long but i would have placed shamanism into the forum on religion, not in the therapy forum.
certainly all of the athropological sources on amerindian traditions i have read use the word religion, not "therapy" to describe all aspects of the culture's views about causality and a medicine man is considered to be central to this view; he is a holy man not just a therapist.
any comments?
peace and love
norbu
Shamanism is not a religion. It is a way of life. Shamanism doesn't have followers per se. The shaman is seen as the 'doctor' he/she does not require followers.
It definitely should NOT be under the heading of religion.
Well I think that's decided then. There are differing views so it can stay where it is. 😉
Love and Reiki Hugs
well you have a right to your own opinion 😉
peace and love
norbu
Why do we feel the need to pigeon hole 'ways of life' into the category of 'religion'?
It seems to me that there are too many followers already and not enough people discovering their own spirituality and what it means to them. I wonder if you asked a shaman whether what they did was religion they would reply 'no'. They are a shaman due to their connection to the divine, and their experiences are unique which is what allows them to do the work they do.
It's a bit like asking a Native American medicine man whether what they do is 'religion'. I think you would also be given a 'no'.
I am not religous as such. I think most murders and killings have been done in the name of religions. Shamans are healers first and foremost. shamans have been around for thousands of years. I know russian, south african, and English ,shamans.I have still to meet a Scottish one!!Allthough the Brahan seer was a Mckenzie,? to Mckenzie Blyth, an ancestor maybe of yours.
Hi <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="ellsbells2">ellsbells2 vbmenu_register("postmenu_399653", true); ,
Aye,Eh kin fine aboot thon Brahan Seer richt enough.
Did you know that not far away from where he was burned to death, there's a Clootie Well at Munlochy.
I first saw it after spending time in Siberia, and was highly amused to see that it looked just like an Ovaa (a shamanic shrine). In Siberia, certain springs, trees and high points on the road are festooned with ribbons - just like the holy well in Munlochy.
They also have bridies in Siberia - which as you know are an East Coast of Scotland speciality.
For those not yet admitted to the mystery cult of Scottish cuisine - a religion if there ever was one - bridies are D-shaped shortcrust pastry parcels with mince and onion inside.
Followers talk of the holy triangle where the best bridies are to be found - Dundee, Forfar and Arbroath.
Yum,
Mac
I am not religous as such. I think most murders and killings have been done in the name of religions. Shamans are healers first and foremost. shamans have been around for thousands of years.
hi ellsbells
mmm, i think you'll find that there is no monopoly on violence and war... in fact many amerindian holy men (shamans and priests and healers of tribal cultures) were also warriors (on the battlefiel) of high regard.
peace and love
norbu
It's a bit like asking a Native American medicine man whether what they do is 'religion'. I think you would also be given a 'no'.
hi rosi
well here's some of the greatest amerindian holy men of recent times that describe their spiritual cutlure as religion (or this is the word used in the authorised accounts of their lives and autobiographies): black elk, fools crow, yellow tail.
incidentally black elk converted to christianity and promoted this religion as a catechist in his later life. according to his daughter he was quite upset at having been made the archetypal example of the amerindian holy man in romanticised accounts, without recording his conversion, of his life and work.
i also have a close friend who is training as keeper of the pipe with the sioux and is preparing himself for full piercing in the sun dance who refers to his beliefs and practices as "religion".
peace and love
norbu
That may be the case. But go back, go back to the days before the white man started coming into their land - was it a religion to them then? I suggest that the answer to that question is 'no'. It was a way of life, a way of connecting with Spirit for the benefit of the whole tribe. Is connecting with Nature and hearing her voice a religion?
hi rosi
i guess i think that the problem probably lies not so much with the word religion as a translation of correlative amerindian words but that the word religion has become tarnished by the injustices and hypocrasies perpetrated by the instutions of power that have taken control of spirituality in history.
i have no issue with religion if it is kept to the biblical meaning referenced below:
[url]James 1:27[/url]
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
peace and love
norbu
Hi <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="ellsbells2">ellsbells2 vbmenu_register("postmenu_399653", true); ,
Aye,Eh kin fine aboot thon Brahan Seer richt enough.
Did you know that not far away from where he was burned to death, there's a Clootie Well at Munlochy.
I first saw it after spending time in Siberia, and was highly amused to see that it looked just like an Ovaa (a shamanic shrine). In Siberia, certain springs, trees and high points on the road are festooned with ribbons - just like the holy well in Munlochy.
They also have bridies in Siberia - which as you know are an East Coast of Scotland speciality.
For those not yet admitted to the mystery cult of Scottish cuisine - a religion if there ever was one - bridies are D-shaped shortcrust pastry parcels with mince and onion inside.
Followers talk of the holy triangle where the best bridies are to be found - Dundee, Forfar and Arbroath.
Yum,
Mac
Hi Mac my mum was born near Forfar,Whitehills to be exact. now a council scheme. Forfar Bridies are made with finely chopped steak not mince,and you can have them with or without onion.Our farm ran borders with the Bowes lyons not good farmers bit of an upstart family. They had good antecedents centuries ago though.Shamanism?spirituality? ran in our family,even though Grandpa was an Elder of the Kirk.Master Mason,member of the rosy cross. Think he was searching. We all have to search for the way,whther we are moslem ,jew or christian. Shamanism is a way not a religion.
Shamanism is a way not a religion.
so is buddhism 😉
peace and love
norbu
shamanism transends religion......so IMO it cannot be considered as such....in fact i personally feel insulted by the term and thats cos of all the damage/war etc. that religion has done.