But (sniff), it's the spirits of the tea leaves I feel sorry for... what happens to them when the leaves are being submerged in boiling (almost water).... is it painful?
Intention has a lot to do with it. Tea is planted, grown, picked etc. with the intention that it will be boiled and drunk. I’ve never come across any spirit that objected to being eaten or drunk at the end of its body’s existence.
...this half-brick that will do the same job as a crystal - when the brick was split in two, does this mean that the spirit of the brick is only half of the whole spirit, or are they both separate, individuated spirits in their own right?
Both. Everything has a spirit. A brick or half a brick. This can get very complicated if you try to talk to all of them. – I liken it to trying to have a sensible conversation with everyone one the Circle Line in the rush hour. But if you have to talk to one, it can be done. I have a half-brick. Or at least, it started as a brick and has been sea-washed into a pebble. I found it on a local beach while I was pondering journeys to include in a workshop – ‘Shamanism in an Urban Environment’ – and now the spirit of the brick helps with that workshop.
One more thing - do you think it's possible for the 'unhappy' spirit of an over-ripe avocado (had to be binned, sadly) to be haunting my fridge? There's a funny smell in ther, and I can't work out where it's coming from!?
Must admit, not sure about this one. Except, I can’t see why it would be unhappy (see answer to first part).
Intention has a lot to do with it. Tea is planted, grown, picked etc. with the intention that it will be boiled and drunk. I’ve never come across any spirit that objected to being eaten or drunk at the end of its body’s existence.
If intention has a lot to do with it - what about further up the chain of intention? I very much doubt that intentions were singular or clear along the chain: The tea may have been planted by the plantation owner/owners with the intention of making money - which would give an incentive to produce 'the best' tea - but what about the intention behind desire for economic gain?
What about the intention of the workers involved in the production of the tea: planting, growing, picking, packaging, distributing - people working 'to earn a buck' switch off at work, their minds drift... they're generally not doing mindful meditations...
Intention has a lot to do with it.Tea is planted, grown, picked etc. with the intention that it will be boiled and drunk. I’ve never come across any spirit that objected to being eaten or drunk at the end of its body’s existence.
On consumption - at what point could we say the body's (tea leaves in this case) existence has ended, and where do the tea leave's spirits go to?
Also, in order to "object" the spirit would have to have 'something' to object against - what?
Both. Everything has a spirit. A brick or half a brick. This can get very complicated if you try to talk to all of them.
So, what you're really saying is that there an infinite number of spirits?
Each atom of a brick has it's own spirit, and the brick itself has a spirit. Is that "brick spirit" a "collective consciousness" of all the spirits that make it up? Is the brick spirit an "overseeing spirit" seperate to the individual spirits that make it up (a bit like a brick God to the bricketts :D), or is it just a seperate spirit in connection will all the little bricky atom spirits?
Curious.... * walks around pondering *...
If intention has a lot to do with it - what about further up the chain of intention? I very much doubt that intentions were singular or clear along the chain: The tea may have been planted by the plantation owner/owners with the intention of making money - which would give an incentive to produce 'the best' tea - but what about the intention behind desire for economic gain?
What about the intention of the workers involved in the production of the tea: planting, growing, picking, packaging, distributing - people working 'to earn a buck' switch off at work, their minds drift... they're generally not doing mindful meditations...
Have you ever read "One City - a Declaration of Interdependance" by Ethan Nichtern?
If not, I can recommend it... certainly one to make you think...
[url]One City: A Declaration of Interdependence: Amazon.co.uk: Ethan Nichtern: Books[/url]
... and it relates to what you're saying here about the intention within everything that is in some way influenced by everyone else.
😉
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Have you ever read "One City - a Declaration of Interdependance" by Ethan Nichtern?
If not, I can recommend it... certainly one to make you think...[url]One City: A Declaration of Interdependence: Amazon.co.uk: Ethan Nichtern: Books[/url]
... and it relates to what you're saying here about the intention within everything that is in some way influenced by everyone else.
😉
All Love and Reiki Hugs
I don't read - I ponder...and, that getting a little bit tedious - to say the least...!
But, thanks for the recommendation anyway - done with the best of intentions, it seems..
🙂
Presumably every grain of sand, every particle of grit, every hair and every flake of skin has a spirit.....their number must be astronomical!
:confused:
I don't read - I ponder...and, that getting a little bit tedious - to say the least...!
Ah, but you read the words of others on these forums, so what's the difference with a book. 🙂
I only tend to recommend books when they're relevant to the conversation and ones that I've found inspiring or insightful.
No probs if you're not interested though. 🙂
:hug:
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Ah, but you read the words of others on these forums, so what's the difference with a book. 🙂
I only tend to recommend books when they're relevant to the conversation and ones that I've found inspiring or insightful.
No probs if you're not interested though. 🙂
:hug:
All Love and Reiki Hugs
I read the words of others on these forums because they are coming from another person - You, or anyone else. Yes, I'm reading the words, but to me, I may as well be listening to you in conversation - only, you're typing your words instead of speaking them :).
Reading books, for me, is like choosing to eat Processes Food over Home Grown (or, at least organic). The thoughts/concepts/ideas have been borrowed > digested > reconstituted - and so lack nutrition value which happens through over processing, if you see what I mean.
I read the words of others on these forums because they are coming from another person - You, or anyone else. Yes, I'm reading the words, but to me, I may as well be listening to you in conversation - only, you're typing your words instead of speaking them :).
Reading books, for me, is like choosing to eat Processes Food over Home Grown (or, at least organic). The thoughts/concepts/ideas have been borrowed > digested > reconstituted - and so lack nutrition value which happens through over processing, if you see what I mean.
Hi W.S.
Is there original thought?
I resonate with not reading but I have had lifetimes where I have done nothing but .
Just another thought (lol) Just for example if an individual realized what love Is and another individual realized what love is _ would that realization not contain the same essence?
Would therefore words used to try and explain such a thing be similar ?
x daz x
I have a question about spirits, Crowan.
If every blade of grass, grain of sand etc. has its own spirit, does that mean that there is no one spirit of a tree, for example, as it is obviously comprised of bark, leaves, branches etc.? Is there a dominant tree spirit and the leaf spirits are separate and apart (although how can they be until they fall?), and if you asked a question of the spirit of the tree, would there be hundreds of answers? Or would the leaves keep quiet?
(This is a serious question, and not meant to be provocative! :))
Is there original thought?
No, if someone has mentally consumed a library of books, cognized the content, and gone on to rehash the input - that's not original, it's reworking.
I resonate with not reading but I have had lifetimes where I have done nothing but .
Do you read in this lifetime?
Over on the [url]To Be Free[/url] thread, you're saying (in effect) [url]everything has a reason[/url] - what was the reason for having life time when you did nothing but read?
Just another thought (lol) Just for example if an individual realized what love Is and another individual realized what love is _ would that realization not contain the same essence?
What level of realization are we talking about? What 'type' of love are we talking about? If that realization contained the same essence.... why is that important or unimportant?
Would therefore words used to try and explain such a thing be similar ?
What are you getting at?
No, if someone has mentally consumed a library of books, cognized the content, and gone on to rehash the input - that's not original, it's reworking.
Hi W.S.
But from where does the so called original thoughts come from that create and form the books . I can have an Idea in mind . From where does the Idea come from . The thought may be located and haven arisen within my individual mind but whose thoughts are whose .
Where does an original idea come from . It comes from somewhere perhaps (lol) . Perhaps many minds pick up on the same wavelength of thought simultaneously as like many mystics can see a similar themed vision and yet they are all residing in different locations spread across the globe .
Over on the To Be Free thread, you're saying (in effect) everything has a reason - what was the reason for having life time when you did nothing but read?
I had a thirst for knowledge / wisdom . I looked to attain knowledge by the hand of others . The reason why I had looked outside of my self to gain wisdom was to show me that I couldn’t find it by anothers hand .
What level of realization are we talking about? What 'type' of love are we talking about? If that realization contained the same essence.... why is that important or unimportant?
You were speaking of
“Reading books, for me, is like choosing to eat Processes Food over Home Grown (or, at least organic). The thoughts/concepts/ideas have been borrowed > digested > reconstituted - and so lack nutrition value which happens through over processing, if you see what I mean.”
which led me to the original thought question put to you .
When an Individual writes a book in the first instance from where can those thoughts arise that make up the book .
Whom has original thought? When I spoke of individuals having realizations that contain the same essence then what will be the outcome of such realizations when put into words _ I say they will be similar .
Does that mean because certain individuals now speak in a similar tongue in that respect that there will never be anything original about what is said of the realizations .
You have mentioned previously that you were looking out for something new/different to be said in regards to my post that contained a process to purity one’s thoughts in order to be free within mind . I suggested does there need to be a new approach to anything that is contained within such a process .
What are you getting at?
I was getting at _ Is there original thought .
can you think of an original thought W.S. Something that hasn't been thought of before?
x daz x
If every blade of grass, grain of sand etc. has its own spirit, does that mean that there is no one spirit of a tree, for example, as it is obviously comprised of bark, leaves, branches etc.? Is there a dominant tree spirit and the leaf spirits are separate and apart (although how can they be until they fall?), and if you asked a question of the spirit of the tree, would there be hundreds of answers? Or would the leaves keep quiet?
If you ask the spirit of the tree, the tree will answer. If you asked the leaves then you’d probably get more answers than you could cope with (all talking at once). If you ask one leaf, that leaf will answer. There is a difference between ‘the spirit of a tree’ and the ‘non-ordinary aspect’ of the tree. (I could try to explain this, but it takes an entire workshop to get it over to most people, so I may just confuse you further. I’ll try, if you like, but it would probably make far more sense to you if you were practising shamanism and I could simply suggest ways for you to ask your own teachers about it.)
Many shamanic people (the Inuit is the best known) accept that every tiny bit has a spirit – that your soul includes the soul of every hair and every drop of blood. This is why they talk about ‘losing a soul’ rather than ‘losing a soul part’.
Where does an original idea come from . It comes from somewhere perhaps (lol) . But from where does the so called original thoughts come from that create and form the books . I can have an Idea in mind . From where does the Idea come from .
GOSH, do you really think so! Um, perhaps the genesis of all thought, eh! LOL
Perhaps many minds pick up on the same wavelength of thought simultaneously as like many mystics can see a similar themed vision and yet they are all residing in different locations spread across the globe .
Yes, I understand, I know.
You were speaking of
“Reading books, for me, is like choosing to eat Processes Food over Home Grown (or, at least organic). The thoughts/concepts/ideas have been borrowed > digested > reconstituted - and so lack nutrition value which happens through over processing, if you see what I mean.”
which led me to the original thought question put to you .
When an Individual writes a book in the first instance from where can those thoughts arise that make up the book .
Whom has original thought? When I spoke of individuals having realizations that contain the same essence then what will be the outcome of such realizations when put into words _ I say they will be similar .
Does that mean because certain individuals now speak in a similar tongue in that respect that there will never be anything original about what is said of the realizations .
You have mentioned previously that you were looking out for something new/different to be said in regards to my post that contained a process to purity one’s thoughts in order to be free within mind . I suggested does there need to be a new approach to anything that is contained within such a process .
I was getting at _ Is there original thought .
can you think of an original thought W.S. Something that hasn't been thought of before?
Nah mate - that's just your interpretation - I wasn't looking out for something new or different to be said.... I'm giving a few people a (friendly) nudge to see if we're on the same page. You also seem to think that I'm attaching something 'special' to originality - I'm not: That's your interpretation!
Nah mate - that's just your interpretation - I wasn't looking out for something new or different to be said.... I'm giving a few people a (friendly) nudge to see if we're on the same page. You also seem to think that I'm attaching something 'special' to originality - I'm not: That's your interpretation!
but, we are supposed to be living in special times, so maybe there will be 'new' (evolved) practices around.
yes, I did wonder if anyone had anything new to bring to the table - that's why I asked.
No worries _ perhaps I got the wrong end of the stick 🙂 . From your responses made I could of sworn you were looking for something new :p .
x dazzle x
If you ask the spirit of the tree, the tree will answer. If you asked the leaves then you’d probably get more answers than you could cope with (all talking at once). If you ask one leaf, that leaf will answer. There is a difference between ‘the spirit of a tree’ and the ‘non-ordinary aspect’ of the tree. (I could try to explain this, but it takes an entire workshop to get it over to most people, so I may just confuse you further. I’ll try, if you like, but it would probably make far more sense to you if you were practising shamanism and I could simply suggest ways for you to ask your own teachers about it.)
Many shamanic people (the Inuit is the best known) accept that every tiny bit has a spirit – that your soul includes the soul of every hair and every drop of blood. This is why they talk about ‘losing a soul’ rather than ‘losing a soul part’.
Thanks, Crowan.
I can't get my head around the concept of every tiny bit having a spirit, therefore am unlikely to practise shamanism. I'm assuming such a belief is a prerequisite to any shamanic training - or could a sceptic be convinced by taking it up and hoping for the best...?
No worries _ perhaps I got the wrong end of the stick 🙂 . From your responses made I could of sworn you were looking for something new :p .
Nope.
If intention has a lot to do with it - what about further up the chain of intention? I very much doubt that intentions were singular or clear along the chain: The tea may have been planted by the plantation owner/owners with the intention of making money - which would give an incentive to produce 'the best' tea - but what about the intention behind desire for economic gain?
What about the intention of the workers involved in the production of the tea: planting, growing, picking, packaging, distributing - people working 'to earn a buck' switch off at work, their minds drift... they're generally not doing mindful meditations...
I agree. But the intention that the tea is planted to be eventually consumed is going to be stronger than any intention that it isn’t.
On consumption - at what point could we say the body's (tea leaves in this case) existence has ended, and where do the tea leave's spirits go to?
At what point do we say a human body’s existence is ended? You understand – I have not done a series of investigative journeys to speak to tea spirits. I tend to communicate with the living plant only for those that I grow, and I’ve never grown tea. The point at which ‘death’ comes is over a much longer period for plants than it is for animals, and the boundary is not always instantaneous for animals. That is all a fancy way of saying, ‘it depends on the individual’, I guess.
As for where they go – there’s a continual ‘recycling’ of spirits, moving from being the spirit of one thing to being the spirit of another.
Also, in order to "object" the spirit would have to have 'something' to object against - what?
I’m not sure that I understand what you are asking. I wrote:
I’ve never come across any spirit that objected to being eaten or drunk at the end of its body’s existence.
The objection there is against being eaten or drunk.
Nope.
yes, I did wonder if anyone had anything new to bring to the table - that's why I asked.
Is there any reason why you quoted that you were?
Can you see why I thought that you were? Just asking .
x dazzle x
Is there any reason why you quoted that you were?
Can you see why I thought that you were? Just asking .
x dazzle x
When I said "yes, I did wonder if anyone had anything new to bring to the table - that's why I asked."
- that's was a 'nudge' I mentioned previously.
I can see why you thought that I was looking for something new. It 'could' have worded it more clearly - but that how it came out at the time.
I'd say, if all of your (or anyone's) 'filters' were clear and completely polished - you would be operating through direct perception (direct insight; 20:20 perception, or what ever name you choose ) ; being able to see where the other 'is coming from' - without the need for thinking/going-into-a-light-trance/interpretation etc. You misinterpreted - had a subjective interpretation of what I said...so, that's that.
You misinterpreted - had a subjective interpretation of what I said...so, that's that.
That is what we all do. It's human.
I can see why you thought that I was looking for something new. It 'could' have worded it more clearly - but that how it came out at the time.
Yer that's cool _ Me and paul are not understanding what each other are saying either for much of the time . 😀
I'd say, if all of your (or anyone's) 'filters' were clear and completely polished - you would be operating through direct perception (direct insight; 20:20 perception, or what ever name you choose ) ; being able to see where the other 'is coming from' - without the need for thinking/going-into-a-light-trance/interpretation etc. You misinterpreted - had a subjective interpretation of what I said...so, that's that.
I notice plenty .W.S. But I like to give others the benefit of the doubt though .
When someone say's black and expects one to know that they mean white one has to either say heck!! what do you mean?? or one has a conversation with that other individual where they are not be straight with them .
As in previous threads when we first spoke you were challenging me back then and they were your words . I said no need to challenge anyone just ask them with pure intent .
You don't need to nudge me either to ascertain if we are on the same page just ask me what's on your mind .. No worries on that score . 🙂
x dazzle x
I notice plenty .W.S. But I like to give others the benefit of the doubt though .
Who's doubt? What judgement behind the doubt? A bit like snow falling - others behavior doesn't need the judgement - the benefit of any doubt - in order to happen - it carries on regardless.
When someone say's black and expects one to know that they mean white one has to either say heck!! what do you mean?? or one has a conversation with that other individual where they are not be straight with them .
I'm not expecting anyone to know what I mean - I know what I mean.
As in previous threads when we first spoke you were challenging me back then and they were your words . I said no need to challenge anyone just ask them with pure intent .
You don't need to nudge me either to ascertain if we are on the same page just ask me what's on your mind .. No worries on that score . 🙂
I'll carry on doing what I'm doing, in my own way.
How you react is up to you :).
Thanks, Crowan.
I can't get my head around the concept of every tiny bit having a spirit, therefore am unlikely to practise shamanism. I'm assuming such a belief is a prerequisite to any shamanic training - or could a sceptic be convinced by taking it up and hoping for the best...?
In case you missed my post among all the others, Crowan, here it is again! 😉
Sorry – I missed this, somehow!
I can't get my head around the concept of every tiny bit having a spirit, therefore am unlikely to practise shamanism. I'm assuming such a belief is a prerequisite to any shamanic training - or could a sceptic be convinced by taking it up and hoping for the best...?
There are no prerequisites. Anyone can go on an introductory workshop and no one will ask what you believe. Many people start by simply keeping an open mind. And I imagine that there are many people who ‘do’ shamanism who don’t even think about it. I have met a few who would agree with you (although they don't seem to be able to argue their case since they hang onto their ideas simply by not asking their spirit teachers about it).
Having said that, one of my students a few years ago said to me that he only had two problems with shamanism – one was the drumming and the other was ‘the spirits’. I suggested that he try some other belief system.
One of the things about HP is that people ask (often simple) questions that have complex answers. It’s easy to say things in reply that would be far more understandable face to face after some shamanic experience. Also, as I have said, I am quite fundamentalist.
(But I’m not really trying to persuade anyone to take up shamanism.)
One of the things about HP is that people ask (often simple) questions that have complex answers. It’s easy to say things in reply that would be far more understandable face to face after some shamanic experience. Also, as I have said, I am quite fundamentalist
Yes, I do appreciate that, Crowan. In the back of my mind I seem to remember you saying once that if people don't 'get' the shamanic idea of everything having a spirit (or words to that effect!) then there is no point in their considering shamanism as a possible path. I was initially drawn to it, but now think it is not for me - although I still find a lot of its aspects fascinating.
🙂
Who's doubt? What judgement behind the doubt? A bit like snow falling - others behavior doesn't need the judgement - the benefit of any doubt - in order to happen - it carries on regardless.
If someone tells me online that they are a chinese gay man then I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they are what they say they are . There is no judgement in taking what they say at face value . I don't care if they are black, white, chinese, female, gay or straight .. They are what they are .
I'm not expecting anyone to know what I mean - I know what I mean.
I don't expect anyone to know what I mean either but I know that If I write the opposite in words to what I actually mean then it won't help in conveying what I actually mean to those that are reading my words .
I'll carry on doing what I'm doing, in my own way.
How you react is up to you :).
I wouldn't want you to be any other way but when I read anything you say in response to what I say I cannot be 100% sure that what you say is what you mean .
x dazzle x
If someone tells me online that they are a chinese gay man then I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they are what they say they are . There is no judgement in taking what they say at face value . I don't care if they are black, white, chinese, female, gay or straight .. They are what they are .
What on earth do you mean- what benefit of doubt are you giving me. I haven't pretended to be anything I'm not! If you had an initial expectation of me and that has changed over time, I'd suggest because of your own initial prejudgement - nothing to do with me.
I don't expect anyone to know what I mean either but I know that If I write the opposite in words to what I actually mean then it won't help in conveying what I actually mean to those that are reading my words .
Sometimes I express myself more clearly than others - which is expressive in it's own right (fine by me)...
I wouldn't want you to be any other way but when I read anything you say in response to what I say I cannot be 100% sure that what you say is what you mean .
If you don't know what I mean, leave it at that - if you're implying that I'm in someway being deceptive, believe me I'm not deceptive - in fact I dislike deception and dishonest to such an extent, that if I see any deception going on - I go to extra ordinary lengths to expose it.
What on earth do you mean- what benefit of doubt are you giving me. I haven't pretended to be anything I'm not! If you had an initial expectation of me and that has changed over time, I'd suggest because of your own initial prejudgement - nothing to do with me.
You mentioned that you were looking for something new in regards to an aspect of a particular thread W.S . You then said that you were not ?? . When I questioned why did you say that you were you then replied that you said what you did because it was your way of giving me a nudge to see whether or not we are on the same page .
I therefore gave you the benefit of the doubt in that what you originally said is what you meant .
You then spouted on about judgement and such likes when all I did was read what you originally said . I replied to your original wording because I believed you were meaning what you said .
Sometimes I express myself more clearly than others - which is expressive in it's own right (fine by me)...
And Me .
If you don't know what I mean, leave it at that - if you're implying that I'm in someway being deceptive, believe me I'm not deceptive - in fact I dislike deception and dishonest to such an extent, that if I see any deception going on - I go to extra ordinary lengths to expose it.
I can only ascertain what you mean if you say what you mean .
If you don't say what you mean then it's difficult to know / understand what it is that you mean .
x daz x
You mentioned that you were looking for something new in regards to an aspect of a particular thread W.S . You then said that you were not ?? . When I questioned why did you say that you were you then replied that you said what you did because it was your way of giving me a nudge to see whether or not we are on the same page .
I therefore gave you the benefit of the doubt in that what you originally said is what you meant .
You then spouted on about judgement and such likes when all I did was read what you originally said . I replied to your original wording because I believed you were meaning what you said .
And Me .
I can only ascertain what you mean if you say what you mean .
If you don't say what you mean then it's difficult to know / understand what it is that you mean .
x daz x
I can't be bothered with all this - some misunderstanding has gone on - no hard feelings on my part OK 😉
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