I was at my Reiki group yesterday evening, part of the group includes a meditation. It wasn't a guided meditation and so I just went with the music playing and found myself in a circle of people chanting, singing and dancing. I realised that I was the fire in the middle and allowed myself to dance with the flames and just enjoy the feeling of warm and power. Eventually turning into an ember and heading spiraling skyward.
When discussing this with my Reiki Master, she mentioned that it sounded like a Shamanic experience. I don't know a lot about Shamanism and I'd like other peoples thoughts on my experience and advice on if/how I should interpret it.
I was at my Reiki group yesterday evening, part of the group includes a meditation. It wasn't a guided meditation and so I just went with the music playing and found myself in a circle of people chanting, singing and dancing. I realised that I was the fire in the middle and allowed myself to dance with the flames and just enjoy the feeling of warm and power. Eventually turning into an ember and heading spiraling skyward.
When discussing this with my Reiki Master, she mentioned that it sounded like a Shamanic experience. I don't know a lot about Shamanism and I'd like other peoples thoughts on my experience and advice on if/how I should interpret it.
Hi. To be shamanism the ‘journey’ (that is, the going to the spirits) has to be intentional. It’s part of the definition. So I would certainly say that the experience is similar to a shamanic journey, doing the same things, but without the boundaries and safeguards of shamanism.
It’s not an easy distinction to grasp without experiencing a journey. A bit like – falling in a river isn’t exactly going for a swim, even though you experience the water both ways. And I wouldn’t advise keeping falling into the river. If you have a tendency to fall in, it’s a good idea to learn to swim.
As for interpreting it – well, it was clearly a good experience. But a journey is done with a specific intention. It’s difficult to understand an answer if you don’t know the question.
Thanks Crowan, I was hoping you would reply... I think its an area I would be interested in exploring more at some point in my future, to journey for a specific purpose I feel would be rewarding and enlightening, I would certainly want to ensure my safety whilst doing it so learning about the boundaries and safeguards required would be essential.
The meditation was to aid the group to maybe contact one of their spirit guides and as I'd heard the meditiation previously I decided to just let my mind wander freely, free of all expectations and see where I went.
I'm at a transitional point at the moment in my life so maybe it is symbolic in that sense. As fire destroys it also transforms things from one thing to something new. It reminded me of a children's story book given to me by my grand-parents about a phoenix raising from the ashes. I do feel it was a positive meditiation. Thinking about it, it may be that I need to think carefully about where I am and where I would like to be and let go of my past a little more.
I'm at a transitional point at the moment in my life so maybe it is symbolic in that sense. As fire destroys it also transforms things from one thing to something new. It reminded me of a children's story book given to me by my grand-parents about a phoenix raising from the ashes. I do feel it was a positive meditiation. Thinking about it, it may be that I need to think carefully about where I am and where I would like to be and let go of my past a little more.
I just found a scrap of paper buried in my desk notes where I'd written down the following and I thought it might be relevant to you Meadowsweet:
"Three simple rules:
1. If you don't go after what you want - you'll never get it.
2. If you don't ask - the answer will always be 'No'.
3. f you don't step forward you'll always be on the same spot.
You CAN do do it!"
Love and Light
I just found a scrap of paper buried in my desk notes where I'd written down the following and I thought it might be relevant to you Meadowsweet:
"Three simple rules:
1. If you don't go after what you want - you'll never get it.
2. If you don't ask - the answer will always be 'No'.
3. f you don't step forward you'll always be on the same spot.
You CAN do do it!"Love and Light
That is useful thank you...
Love & Light
The meditation was to aid the group to maybe contact one of their spirit guides and as I'd heard the meditiation previously I decided to just let my mind wander freely, free of all expectations and see where I went.
Hi meadowsweet (I love that name, btw, makes me think of hay fields:)),
What happened during the previous meditations, did you contact spirit guides?
🙂
Hi WildStrawberry,
Thank you for the compliment on my name. It does the same for me too 🙂
Previous meditations did put me in touch with some of my spirit guides, I have 3 at the moment and I feel that there is a 4th waiting to come in when the time is right.
Previous meditations did put me in touch with some of my spirit guides, I have 3 at the moment and I feel that there is a 4th waiting to come in when the time is right.
:D..... do you mind telling me a bit about them? I'm really curious, because I've never experienced them (haven't ever tried though, to be honest)... Who are they? Do they each have different roles? When you communicate with them.... I dunno, um, what's it like? And what makes you feel a 4th is approaching?
Previous meditations did put me in touch with some of my spirit guides, I have 3 at the moment and I feel that there is a 4th waiting to come in when the time is right.
Would you distinguish between Spirit Guides and Spirit Teachers (as in shamanism)?
:D..... do you mind telling me a bit about them? I'm really curious, because I've never experienced them (haven't ever tried though, to be honest)... Who are they? Do they each have different roles? When you communicate with them.... I dunno, um, what's it like? And what makes you feel a 4th is approaching?
The first to contact me was a celtic lady, the second was an american indian (which was quite unexpected for me), the third is a nordic forester.
I meet them in my sanctuary which is a small cottage in the woods during meditation. We communicate without words in the physical sense anyway. The celtic lady is there to help me when i'm doing healing work, the american indian is there to ensure i remain grounded and playful, i have just met the nordic forester so I'm still discussing how he is to help me, but he gave me a shield which includes my ancestral family crest so i feel he is there to remind me to stay protected and fight when I need to. The fourth to come is a lady I get the sense that she is there due to my interest in herbs but she will come to when the time is right. I think I have enough on my plate right now. lol.
Hi Crowan, I see that spirit guides are there to assist me in my work and show me the correct ways of doing things. I guess they are teachers as well as friends.
The first to contact me was a celtic lady, the second was an american indian (which was quite unexpected for me), the third is a nordic forester.
I meet them in my sanctuary which is a small cottage in the woods during meditation. We communicate without words in the physical sense anyway. The celtic lady is there to help me when i'm doing healing work, the american indian is there to ensure i remain grounded and playful, i have just met the nordic forester so I'm still discussing how he is to help me, but he gave me a shield which includes my ancestral family crest so i feel he is there to remind me to stay protected and fight when I need to. The fourth to come is a lady I get the sense that she is there due to my interest in herbs but she will come to when the time is right. I think I have enough on my plate right now. lol.
That sounds amazing. Like an enchanting fairy tale with a small cottage in the woods; nordic forester; family crest; herbs.... Thanks for indulging my curiosity :);)
I was at my Reiki group yesterday evening, part of the group includes a meditation. It wasn't a guided meditation and so I just went with the music playing and found myself in a circle of people chanting, singing and dancing. I realised that I was the fire in the middle and allowed myself to dance with the flames and just enjoy the feeling of warm and power. Eventually turning into an ember and heading spiraling skyward.
When discussing this with my Reiki Master, she mentioned that it sounded like a Shamanic experience. I don't know a lot about Shamanism and I'd like other peoples thoughts on my experience and advice on if/how I should interpret it.
Hi
It is quite a fad to interpret experiences/dreams/phenomenon/intuitions etc here in west. There is really nothing to interpret. There is really nothing to learn from what happens when you meditate. It is all about unlearning. Experiences are nothing but mind projecting out. The whole point of meditation is to find the One, to who all experiences happen. Paying too much attention to experiences is a distraction.
Most amazing or horrible experiences are only just passing energy. Experiences don't last, they are like dancing waves on the sea, infinite and incessant but mind keeps regurgitating, trying to grab hold of it or any wisdom hidden therein. But what wants to be known/learnt happens spontaneously. The wisdom,if there is any will be absorbed, if it needs to, but not by analysis and interpretation.
Leave it be. There will be plenty more weird and wonderful ones. Leave them alone too.
Hi
It is quite a fad to interpret experiences/dreams/phenomenon/intuitions etc here in west. There is really nothing to interpret. There is really nothing to learn from what happens when you meditate. It is all about unlearning. Experiences are nothing but mind projecting out. The whole point of meditation is to find the One, to who all experiences happen. Paying too much attention to experiences is a distraction.Most amazing or horrible experiences are only just passing energy. Experiences don't last, they are like dancing waves on the sea, infinite and incessant but mind keeps regurgitating, trying to grab hold of it or any wisdom hidden therein. But what wants to be known/learnt happens spontaneously. The wisdom,if there is any will be absorbed, if it needs to, but not by analysis and interpretation.
Leave it be. There will be plenty more weird and wonderful ones. Leave them alone too.
Hi jnani .
I agree with your thoughts but can you see the relevance through evaluating experiences had where one will then realize, know and learn from them in such a way where they will eventually come to a conclusion that coincides with what you have mentioned above .
It's like many will say that the search for self is likened to a dog chasing their own tails but the search is the experience one must have in order to know that 'what you are' has always been present .
I see a multitude of processes happening for each individual that will lead them to a point of understanding the relationship that one has with everything else . Part of the process is of the intellectual mind where one must satisfy the intellect by evaluating what one is experiencing be it in meditation or whatever .
x daz x
It is quite a fad to interpret experiences/dreams/phenomenon/intuitions etc here in west. There is really nothing to interpret.
Since we are on the 'Shamanism' forum - would you include shamanic journeying in this list?
Hi jnani .
I agree with your thoughts but can you see the relevance through evaluating experiences had where one will then realize, know and learn from them in such a way where they will eventually come to a conclusion that coincides with what you have mentioned above .
It's like many will say that the search for self is likened to a dog chasing their own tails but the search is the experience one must have in order to know that 'what you are' has always been present .
I see a multitude of processes happening for each individual that will lead them to a point of understanding the relationship that one has with everything else . Part of the process is of the intellectual mind where one must satisfy the intellect by evaluating what one is experiencing be it in meditation or whatever .
x daz x
Yes, the wisdom is absorbed naturally, it does not need analysis. During meditation, mind empties itself out images, sensations, visions colours etc etc.Infinite projections. One can find reasons to say there is value in analyzing but that way mind gets busier than ever. and that is what mind loves. Meditation is a u turn for busy-ness of mind, essentially. It is to settle mind to a place of progressively lesser stirring. Coming out of meditation and then going over experiences is counter-productive to meditation. Its an excuse for mind to jump back in the equation and make it all about how it evaluates it, understands it and learns from it.
There is only one purpose to meditation that being knowing that you are not mind. It is not to get peaceful, happy or learn more. So what mind does in meditation has to be seen for what it is regurgitation what it knows. But that's what mind does anyway. So going along the analyzing road, although feels good to mind, as it is entertained but it renders the very effort useless.
Since we are on the 'Shamanism' forum - would you include shamanic journeying in this list?
No. its not about what you call it. It is about what is experienced during one or all methods. The mind does the same thing, no matter what you call it
Maybe you could put your discussion about the 'correct' attitude to meditation into another forum? The discussion here is whether this particular meditation can be related to a shamanic journey.
Maybe you could put your discussion about the 'correct' attitude to meditation into another forum? The discussion here is whether this particular meditation can be related to a shamanic journey.
In fairness Jane, the question was about a meditation experience and could this be likened to a shamanic journey as the Reiki master had suggested. Such a question could easily have been asked in the meditation forum instead. In that respect I think Ruby's input as to how meditation experiences are percieved is perfectly valid on this thread.... e.g. Was this a shaminc journey... in Ruby's opinion... it doesn't matter what you call it, all meditation experiences relate to the workings of the mind. Just because a shaminc experience was part of the question and it was asking in the shamanism forum doesn't mean that is has to be interepreted that way alone. Healthypages is a flexible place that allows other opinions and viewpoints, it doesn't have to be rigidly adhered to as per the forum title. 😉
So why not look at different understandings too? After all, that's what meadowsweet was asking...
I don't know a lot about Shamanism and I'd like other peoples thoughts on my experience and advice on if/how I should interpret it.
:grouphug:
All Love and Reiki Hugs
Yes, the wisdom is absorbed naturally, it does not need analysis. During meditation, mind empties itself out images, sensations, visions colours etc etc.Infinite projections. One can find reasons to say there is value in analyzing but that way mind gets busier than ever. and that is what mind loves. Meditation is a u turn for busy-ness of mind, essentially. It is to settle mind to a place of progressively lesser stirring. Coming out of meditation and then going over experiences is counter-productive to meditation. Its an excuse for mind to jump back in the equation and make it all about how it evaluates it, understands it and learns from it.
There is only one purpose to meditation that being knowing that you are not mind. It is not to get peaceful, happy or learn more. So what mind does in meditation has to be seen for what it is regurgitation what it knows. But that's what mind does anyway. So going along the analyzing road, although feels good to mind, as it is entertained but it renders the very effort useless.
So are you saying that I should just accept the experience for what it is rather then to consciously try to learn from it? I'm quite an inquisitive person in general and like to consider what my mind is showing me during meditations and how they could relate to my current existance. I think there are various ways of meditating some teach the mind to clear itself and just be, whereas others actively encourage the mind to seek answers.
In fairness Jane, the question was about a meditation experience and could this be likened to a shamanic journey as the Reiki master had suggested. Such a question could easily have been asked in the meditation forum instead. In that respect I think Ruby's input as to how meditation experiences are percieved is perfectly valid on this thread.... e.g. Was this a shaminc journey... in Ruby's opinion... it doesn't matter what you call it, all meditation experiences relate to the workings of the mind. Just because a shaminc experience was part of the question and it was asking in the shamanism forum doesn't mean that is has to be interepreted that way alone. Healthypages is a flexible place that allows other opinions and viewpoints, it doesn't have to be rigidly adhered to as per the forum title. 😉
So why not look at different understandings too? After all, that's what meadowsweet was asking...
:grouphug:
All Love and Reiki Hugs
I did debate where to place this topic, and decided upon Shamanism area as an area to start. 🙂
Some interesting perspectives. Thank you all. x
So are you saying that I should just accept the experience for what it is rather then to consciously try to learn from it? I'm quite an inquisitive person in general and like to consider what my mind is showing me during meditations and how they could relate to my current existance. I think there are various ways of meditating some teach the mind to clear itself and just be, whereas others actively encourage the mind to seek answers.
What is it that's clearing the mind and directing it to just be? And what is it that's directing the mind to actively seek answers?
So are you saying that I should just accept the experience for what it is rather then to consciously try to learn from it? I'm quite an inquisitive person in general and like to consider what my mind is showing me during meditations and how they could relate to my current existance. I think there are various ways of meditating some teach the mind to clear itself and just be, whereas others actively encourage the mind to seek answers.
I would say, if you are meditating with a particular question in mind, then what the meditation does is to allow the mind to 'still' (helping you to detach from distracting thoughts) so that you can get in touch with your intuition without the mind getting in the way, and then the answer comes to you more easily. How that answer manifests itself will differ from person to person, and it may be that you 'experience' something during the meditation which you then have to interpret a little to know the answer, or the answer may just spring to mind blatently obviously, or could come to you as you come out of the meditation with a clear mind.
I think though, what Ruby is saying is that you could get too involved in trying to interpret what you experienced and then the mind is getting in the way again and different people will interpret things differently, and it probably doesn't help to have a 3rd party suggest interpretations such as it likely being Shamanic, if you in fact don't follow a shamanic path and have that sort of understanding yourself.
I would say, if there's an answer or understanding to be had from an experience then that will be known to you as you experience it (or as you come out of your meditation experience) and you don't need to interpret it. Therefore, if the meaning is unknown to you at that time, just let the experience go, and if there was something important in it, then it will come to you when the time is right... you'll have one of those "Ah! that's what I was being shown!" moments.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
What is it that's clearing the mind and directing it to just be? And what is it that's directing the mind to actively seek answers?
When I figure that out I will let you know. 😛
I am no good at emptying the mind and just being in the moment. My brain interupts and I start thinking random thoughts of things that bother me, or things I want to do or be.
In the reference to seeking answers, I feel that the soul has lessons to learn and the only way to learn is to ask questions, seek answers and make a few mistakes on the way. My own perspective of course.
When I figure that out I will let you know. 😛
I am no good at emptying the mind and just being in the moment. My brain interupts and I start thinking random thoughts of things that bother me, or things I want to do or be.
In the reference to seeking answers, I feel that the soul has lessons to learn and the only way to learn is to ask questions, seek answers and make a few mistakes on the way. My own perspective of course.
...and probably the most important perspective (imv :D).
I would say, if you are meditating with a particular question in mind, then what the meditation does is to allow the mind to 'still' (helping you to detach from distracting thoughts) so that you can get in touch with your intuition without the mind getting in the way, and then the answer comes to you more easily. How that answer manifests itself will differ from person to person, and it may be that you 'experience' something during the meditation which you then have to interpret a little to know the answer, or the answer may just spring to mind blatently obviously, or could come to you as you come out of the meditation with a clear mind.
I think though, what Ruby is saying is that you could get too involved in trying to interpret what you experienced and then the mind is getting in the way again and different people will interpret things differently, and it probably doesn't help to have a 3rd party suggest interpretations such as it likely being Shamanic, if you in fact don't follow a shamanic path and have that sort of understanding yourself.
I would say, if there's an answer or understanding to be had from an experience then that will be known to you as you experience it (or as you come out of your meditation experience) and you don't need to interpret it. Therefore, if the meaning is unknown to you at that time, just let the experience go, and if there was something important in it, then it will come to you when the time is right... you'll have one of those "Ah! that's what I was being shown!" moments.
All Love and Reiki Hugs
I find it a lot easier to understand my dreams/meditations/experiences when I discuss them with others, writing them out helps me put them into perspective. I'm thinking that the meditation was a symbolic one of my current transition and probably not Shamanic in the journeying sense. I like hearing other peoples point of view to allow me to consider possible perspectives that I hadn't considered.
I agree with Ruby I guess it is too easy to get stuck in over analysing the experiences and allowing the mind to interupt the process, seeking too hard for an answer, when if allowed to mature the learning will come about naturally. Maybe I am just impatient. lol
In the end I really quite enjoyed letting my mind wander on its own and allow me to dance within the flames of the fire. 🙂
Crowan, When you do shamanic journeying, do you always begin with an intention of acheiving something, such as learning a lesson / soul retrieval / rescue work etc?
I am no good at emptying the mind and just being in the moment. My brain interupts and I start thinking random thoughts of things that bother me, or things I want to do or be.
Have you tried writing down the thinks that bother you? And the things you want to do or be? It might bring some organization and clarity, present a point/points to deal with so as to formulate a plan of action, or non-action.:)
So are you saying that I should just accept the experience for what it is rather then to consciously try to learn from it? I'm quite an inquisitive person in general and like to consider what my mind is showing me during meditations and how they could relate to my current existance. I think there are various ways of meditating some teach the mind to clear itself and just be, whereas others actively encourage the mind to seek answers.
Yes Meadowsweet
We are brain-washed to learn from this that and the other. meditation serves you to see is that mind is always trying to run the show. There might be a spontaneous aha moment. and if you are not focused too much on that it happens a lot more, you go inside and things become clearer That' s ok but going into searching for answers/insights is counter productive.
I don't know there are all sorts of meditations these days so it seems but it is only ever to get to the point to recognize that any real answesr come from silence not from chattering of mind...and that is the point meditation is meant to take you to. To the silence. So people who are doing seeking answers etc are calling it meditation and they can call it what they like but it is like speaking to others or keeping eyes shut and speaking silently to oneself. Mind is busy either way. That is not meditation. Non-chalence to mind in a gentle way is meditation. Mind is the only problem there is. Perace and mind cannot co-exist. Once mind begins to settle down, all that is vital becomes clear.
ICrowan, When you do shamanic journeying, do you always begin with an intention of acheiving something, such as learning a lesson / soul retrieval / rescue work etc?
There is always an intention (some people call it a ‘mission statement’ – same thing). This is to define, for you and your spirit friends, what it is you are asking/doing and to form part of the boundary of the journey. However, this doesn’t have to be a terribly serious intention. It could be something along the lines of, “I’m going on a journey to hang out with my power animal” or “ I’m going on a journey to get to know my teacher better”.
Of course, particularly when helping a client, it often is more serious.