Journeying

Sorry you haven't had any responses, mouse - I'm not at that stage myself yet.

Can I ask, are you using a particular drumming cd? Do the different timings make a difference to your journey?

Sorry you haven't had any responses, mouse - I'm not at that stage myself yet.

Can I ask, are you using a particular drumming cd? Do the different timings make a difference to your journey?

Hi there Kiga
Yes, I downloaded a 15 min single drumming track from Frauke Rotwein. I listened to quite a few by different people beforehand then just went with what sounded right to me. Some of them didn't feel right at all but I liked this one. It's interesting how much feeling can be in the tones and sounds. Have just got a 30 min one by the same person, so will move onto that when it's time.

In my experience people often start with a favourite drumming tape (shows how old I am!) / CD / MP3. As time goes on and connection with your spirit helpers grows, I think you’ll find that you can journey to all kinds of drumming. If a client comes to me, and brings someone else for support, I often ask the supporter to drum for me – particularly if the client is a child and I can ask the accompanying parent to drum. In these circumstances the drumming tends to be jumpy and variable in tone and prone to unexpected pauses. I never have a problem journeying under such circumstances. I’m sure that, in time, you won’t either.
In the meantime, stick with the one you like. On most workshops you’ll experience live drumming (although I remember, on Kenneth Meadow’s early courses, we journeyed to a tape of his own drumming!). If anyone is looking for a CD, The Foundation for Shamanic Studies Double Drumming seems to suit most people.
Don’t be in a hurry to use a longer tape. I only use longer than 20 minutes if I am doing a healing (in which case I have the drumming as long as possible so that I don’t have to come back until I’ve done what I need to do), or if I’m doing a shamanic counselling journey or am with a client who is doing a shamanic counselling journey.
I take the time (usually) to get into the right space. I have a specific room in the house and lay out an altar before I journey. I have on this at least a candle. I say ‘usually’ because, if we are going to be away from the house overnight, I will do a very quick journey to our house spirit and to our cat to explain when we’ll be back, and I do that in the sitting room.
You’ve met your power animal. What further journeys have you done? I hope you are writing them all down – I have clear memories of my first few journeys, but was not encouraged to keep a record for several years and I regret that. Important teachings can be repeated and updated by our spirits but I am aware that I have forgotten much that was beautiful and magical

Hello 🙂

Yes, I do write down the journeys (only 3 so far). It is important not to lose them I think. I use incense to 'clear' the space beforehand but it can be difficult clearing my mind, always need to shake off the working day first. I find the drumming quite distracting initially, and have to keep the volume low. I guess I will get used to it.

It is so special to do this. I am very much looking forward to the workshop though as feel like I'm floundering around and pretty clueless (which I am of course!).

I feel the journeying should focus on developing a relationship with my power animal. I can't actually see it clearly close up. I see it in flashes, colours, and from a distance and I know what it is, but would like to see clearly. It is almost like part of me is still thinking I'm making it all up so I can't see it clearly. Still I am very much at the beginning so in time.....

Hi mouse,

I think you will be much more confident about journeying after the workshop. You wondered in another thread if fear could block your seeing spirits, and I'm sure learning from an experienced teacher and being in a group will dispel any lingering fears you may have.

You've had the courage to start off alone, and this workshop has come along at just the right time.

I could see more but I have a lot of fear so I block it. I know that this is the story, basically. Not sure why so much fear though.

I could see more but I have a lot of fear so I block it. I know that this is the story, basically. Not sure why so much fear though.

Don't worry about this too much. I'm sure that on the workshop and maybe later in a group, knowing that you will have more experienced journeyers around, you will be less fearful. When fear stops us doing stuff then, yes, it needs to be worked through - but better to do that slowly and well than rush it and discover later that you have only repressed it.

You might like to consider having shamanic counselling sometime, to work through it in a structured way.

It's not so much fear of what I'll see on the journeying but what I might see at night in daily life. And yes, I know that sounds nuts. Agree about the counselling.

Yes! I think I understand exactly what you mean, mouse, it's the fear that if you allow yourself to see these things, they will somehow perhaps have "permission" to intrude into your head at other times....

Yes, kind of like that. I did see something years ago that really turned my world upside down, have never forgotten it. No matter how sceptical or questioning I get (and it can be quite a lot!) I can never forget what I saw. Maybe I will start a ghost thread! Where to put it though?

Do you fear that journeying may reawaken some latent ability in you to see ghosts?

No, I already have that ability but block it out of fear (I think). Journeying might make it harder to block it.

Yes, I understand completely. It's a dilemma [url][/url]

No, I already have that ability but block it out of fear (I think). Journeying might make it harder to block it.

I actually think it could make it easier to block. Part of good journeying is being completely aware of which reality you are in. 'Non-ordinary reality' is the term given to what we experience in the journey state. Although it includes the Upper and Lower Worlds, it also includes the Middle World - this world - but seen through what Harner calls 'Shamanic Conciousness'. Ghosts and Middle World spirits belong to Non-ordinary reality and part of a good journeying practice is to be certain that you are back into Ordinary Reality (that is, out of Shamanic Conciousness).
People who have problems with being ungrounded often cannot tell which reality they are in and will see spirits when not intending to - not a good idea if you are (for example) driving along the M1! Good teachers will cover grounding anyway, but coming completely back from a journey is a grounding practice in itself.

I actually think it could make it easier to block. Part of good journeying is being completely aware of which reality you are in. 'Non-ordinary reality' is the term given to what we experience in the journey state. Although it includes the Upper and Lower Worlds, it also includes the Middle World - this world - but seen through what Harner calls 'Shamanic Conciousness'. Ghosts and Middle World spirits belong to Non-ordinary reality and part of a good journeying practice is to be certain that you are back into Ordinary Reality (that is, out of Shamanic Conciousness).
People who have problems with being ungrounded often cannot tell which reality they are in and will see spirits when not intending to - not a good idea if you are (for example) driving along the M1! Good teachers will cover grounding anyway, but coming completely back from a journey is a grounding practice in itself.

Ah yes, which brings an element of choice to what you see. That is interesting. So, I have a couple of questions....... Should you start with lower world journeying and then move onto the others in sequence, i.e. middle followed by upper, or does the order not really matter. And...if a person is particularly accident prone would you say that this is because they are ungrounded?

Ah yes, which brings an element of choice to what you see. That is interesting.

Not so much choice in what you see, rather choice in whether or not you have your seeing ‘switched on’.

Should you start with lower world journeying and then move onto the others in sequence, i.e. middle followed by upper, or does the order not really matter.

In many ways, it doesn’t matter. On my workshops, over the weekend, we get to visit all three. I believe that Jonathan does the same. I start with the Lower because I find that some people have a dread of the Lower World, equating it with Hell, and it’s best to show them how good it is as soon as is possible. Also, you’ve got to start somewhere and most people find it easiest to meet their power animal in the Lower World. Some people, when first starting, find it easier to go to the Upper World. A very few find that they need to start with the Middle World. After that, many (this reality) teachers will say that particular types of journey belong to particular worlds – the rule of thumb is Lower for power, Upper for information – but I have always found it best to visit each at least once, so that you know you can get there. After that I just go to my starting place, tell my power animal what my mission is and go to where he takes me. He knows where I can find the answer.

And...if a person is particularly accident prone would you say that this is because they are ungrounded?

It can be. But there can be other reasons – power loss, soul loss or an intrusion. And these can be reasons for ungroundedness in the first place.

🙂 Thank you for answering, I have a great deal to learn. Couldn't go anywhere today, the lower world was shut!

Is it possible to journey without the drumming? I ask in relation to a strange experience I had the other night when I wasn't even thinking about the subject.

In my experience, yes it is, although perhaps it depends on how you are defining 'journeying'. I can think of at least two experiences that happened without seeking or prompting of any kind.

Yes, I'm not sure what it was, I'm keeping an open mind. Thanks for replying!

Can you say what the experience was, or do you prefer to keep it private. Please tell me off if I'm being nosey!

I'll send you a PM!

Cool, have PM'd back if you are still out there 🙂

Is it possible to journey without the drumming? I ask in relation to a strange experience I had the other night when I wasn't even thinking about the subject.

Technically, no. The definition of journeying is 'travelling at will to the spirit worlds', so without it being at will, (if you are not even thinking about it) it's not journeying.
But whatever we call it, it is possible (although not recommended) to enter shamanic consciousness without intention to do so. It can often happen before learning to journey. The spirits use what means they can to get in touch with you.
Journeying without drumming – it can be done by other means such as psychotropic plants, singing, rattling, trance dancing etc. Drums are easy. I would say don’t journey without anything. Drumming creates the boundaries around a journey, helping (along with your intention) to keep you safe.

Thanks Crowan, that makes sense - if I were to learn to journey I would use a drumming tape as I wouldn't feel safe without a safety-net, so to speak. What you say about spirits getting in touch by other means confirms what mouse has said to me, so I'll just remain receptive.

There are some great drumming albums on spotify for free, specifically for journeying. Ive found them to be quite useful

Thanks, Finalshine, will look into that 🙂

There are some great drumming albums on spotify for free, specifically for journeying. Ive found them to be quite useful

Check how long the drumming is - 15 to 20 minutes is ample. And listen to the call-back at the end before you choose, so that you know what it sounds like when you are journeying.

I probably don't need to say this, but a lot of rhythmic drumming can go under the name of 'shamanic drumming' - what you need for journeying is monotonous drumming.:)