Can we have thoughts without a brain ?

How do you know they don't have a physical brain? In their own realm..

.maybe they are just our imagination, or from our subconscious.. like a dream.. ?

Would it make any difference to you if they were?

My question is:

Can we have thoughts without a brain ?

If not, the beings in our Shamanic Journeys must not exist ? ..as they dont have a physical brain..

.maybe they are just our imagination, or from our subconscious.. like a dream.. ?

??

That's a bit of a philosophical question really, and I would say it doesn't just relate to shamanism, but anyway...

Thoughts are created within the mind.
Science has been trying for as long as it's been around to try and locate the mind within the brain as that is where they believe it to exist but, as yet they haven't been able to isolate it. Whilst they can show that neurons fire in certain ways when certain thoughts or feelings etc. are occurring, there is no scientific evidence of where the thoughts are originating from... or just what is creating them.

So, for sake of argument, lets just say that the thoughts are generated in the mind and the mind is outside of the physical brain. In that case the brain is acting as an interface between the mind the physical body, so whilst the activity of the brain does relate to the thoughts and whatever that is going on in the body, it doesn't have to mean that the mind resides within the brain itself.

Of course there's no proof that the mind is ouside the brain, just as much as there's no proof that it's inside the brain, but if you were to throw an honest statistician at it, they would say that, based on the number of times science has looked for the mind within the brain and not found it, then statistically, there is a greater chance that it actually resides outside the brain (the more you toss a coin and it keeps landing on heads, the more chance that the next throw will be a tails). So, statistically there's a very good chance the mind does exist outside the brain.

We could also take evidence from people who've had out of body experiences, or near death experiences, or those who meditate or practice philosophies such as non-duality etc. where all is considered one (and the physical is just a manfestation within ones own perception/awareness). Or those people who've undergone brain surgery to have a large portion of their brain removed, yet they still remain after with their thoughts etc. Many of these lead to an understanding that the mind and thoughts exist beyond the physical limits of the brain.

So, it's up to you to decide for yourself, through your own journey and experience, whether you understand the mind and thoughts to exist within the brain or without the brain. For me, the mind is not limited to the brain. You talk of imagination, subconscious and dreams, but what are those things... really?

All Love and Reiki Hugs

That's a bit of a philosophical question really, and I would say it doesn't just relate to shamanism, but anyway...

Thoughts are created within the mind.
Science has been trying for as long as it's been around to try and locate the mind within the brain as that is where they believe it to exist but, as yet they haven't been able to isolate it. Whilst they can show that neurons fire in certain ways when certain thoughts or feelings etc. are occurring, there is no scientific evidence of where the thoughts are originating from... or just what is creating them.

So, for sake of argument, lets just say that the thoughts are generated in the mind and the mind is outside of the physical brain. In that case the brain is acting as an interface between the mind the physical body, so whilst the activity of the brain does relate to the thoughts and whatever that is going on in the body, it doesn't have to mean that the mind resides within the brain itself.

Of course there's no proof that the mind is ouside the brain, just as much as there's no proof that it's inside the brain, but if you were to throw an honest statistician at it, they would say that, based on the number of times science has looked for the mind within the brain and not found it, then statistically, there is a greater chance that it actually resides outside the brain (the more you toss a coin and it keeps landing on heads, the more chance that the next throw will be a tails). So, statistically there's a very good chance the mind does exist outside the brain.

We could also take evidence from people who've had out of body experiences, or near death experiences, or those who meditate or practice philosophies such as non-duality etc. where all is considered one (and the physical is just a manfestation within ones own perception/awareness). Or those people who've undergone brain surgery to have a large portion of their brain removed, yet they still remain after with their thoughts etc. Many of these lead to an understanding that the mind and thoughts exist beyond the physical limits of the brain.

So, it's up to you to decide for yourself, through your own journey and experience, whether you understand the mind and thoughts to exist within the brain or without the brain. For me, the mind is not limited to the brain. You talk of imagination, subconscious and dreams, but what are those things... really?

All Love and Reiki Hugs

Clairvoyantly, I've seen 'a thought' entering a person by spinning (came from 'high' (don't ask me where high is) and spun downwards) into the person as a 'plane/disc' - and entering via a certain chakra (I hope I'm remembering with accuracy, about the chakra part, the precise area was 'vague' - the point being: 'the thought' didn't enter the persons head, as one might expect). The 'disc' (this might be sounding a lot weird than it actually was) gradually reduced in size on nearing the person, before entering the chakra. I've only seen this happen once.

Other times, I've clairvoyant seen thoughts written (literally written, like sentences) over certain areas of a persons body - which lead me to think, thought exists in chakra areas.

That's as much as I can say, without joining dots that I don't really know about.

How do you know they don't have a physical brain? In their own realm..

I've come to this thread late - been off-line for a while - but any chance of a reply to Kiga, Sunshine*? I'd be interested, since this is exactly what I would ask, as well.

We could also take evidence from people who've had out of body experiences, or near death experiences, or those who meditate or practice philosophies such as non-duality etc. where all is considered one (and the physical is just a manfestation within ones own perception/awareness). Or those people who've undergone brain surgery to have a large portion of their brain removed, yet they still remain after with their thoughts etc. Many of these lead to an understanding that the mind and thoughts exist beyond the physical limits of the brain.

Here is an article from The New Scientist about a 44 year old man who was found to have only a small amount of brain tissue and nevertheless functioned normally -
[url]Man with tiny brain shocks doctors - health - 20 July 2007 - New Scientist[/url]

Masha

I thought I'll share a recent experience I had. I did a treatment swapsie with a shamanic friend a month ago. She gave me shamanic healing and I gave her a Chi Nei Tsang abdominal detox massage.

In my treatment being slowly journeyed, in my "mind eye" I could see my brain exposed and a crow eating it. As the grey matter was being nibbled away, there underneath was a bright disc. So in the end of this vision, I had no brain but a shiny disc in my head.

Any interpretations?

RP

I thought I'll share a recent experience I had. I did a treatment swapsie with a shamanic friend a month ago. She gave me shamanic healing and I gave her a Chi Nei Tsang abdominal detox massage.

In my treatment being slowly journeyed, in my "mind eye" I could see my brain exposed and a crow eating it. As the grey matter was being nibbled away, there underneath was a bright disc. So in the end of this vision, I had no brain but a shiny disc in my head.

Any interpretations?

RP

Wow! And Urghhh Argghhhhh!

What's your interpretation, RP? Re: The Crow and the bright disc?

When you say 'bright', how do you mean exactly? Where about in your brain was the disc?

I thought I'll share a recent experience I had. I did a treatment swapsie with a shamanic friend a month ago. She gave me shamanic healing and I gave her a Chi Nei Tsang abdominal detox massage.

In my treatment being slowly journeyed, in my "mind eye" I could see my brain exposed and a crow eating it. As the grey matter was being nibbled away, there underneath was a bright disc. So in the end of this vision, I had no brain but a shiny disc in my head.
Any interpretations?
RP

Were you actually journeying (intentionally) while the healing was being done? Or was your mind simply wandering? If you were journeying, what was the intention/mission statement?
Do you mind my asking … What was the healing?
I have known (and indeed, both done and received) healings where a part of the body was replaced. But any interpretation depends on the journey intention.

Wow! And Urghhh Argghhhhh!

What's your interpretation, RP? Re: The Crow and the bright disc?

When you say 'bright', how do you mean exactly? Where about in your brain was the disc?

It was just sitting there in the cranium like the an orange sun just about to sink below the horizon at dusk.

My interpretation? Too much stuff in my head needing a good clear out 😀

Were you actually journeying (intentionally) while the healing was being done? Or was your mind simply wandering? If you were journeying, what was the intention/mission statement?
Do you mind my asking … What was the healing?
I have known (and indeed, both done and received) healings where a part of the body was replaced. But any interpretation depends on the journey intention.

The main intention was to shift a sense of stagnation i was feeling at the time. I just allowed the practitioner to "tune in" to what was needed. She smudged and drummed, and did some kind of energy healing especially on my heart centre (can't remember in which order). Her guides (whatever form they took, don't know) suggested that we needed to work on a situation where I was 6 years old, where I had an emotional loss. The mechanisms behind that part of the session I don't know or simply can't remember.

The crow picking my brains out was probably early into the session. Such visual insights is not uncommon for me. Some people would of find it scary, but to me it's just another amusing and interesting phenomena 😉

All I can say is I feel a lot better person for this experience. More calmer and happier 🙂

It was just sitting there in the cranium like the an orange sun just about to sink below the horizon at dusk.

My interpretation? Too much stuff in my head needing a good clear out 😀

Well, the obvious conclusion to jump to would be that the orange sun is your crown chakra (?) Were you aware of any bodily sensations whilst you were having the vision? If so, where so, and what were they? Any thoughts happening in concurrence with the vision, that you were aware of, and recall?:)

(...don't worry, I won't be asking for your finger prints anytime soon...err..)

Well, the obvious conclusion to jump to would be that the orange sun is your crown chakra (?) Were you aware of any bodily sensations whilst you were having the vision? If so, where so, and what were they? Any thoughts occurring in concurrence with the vision, that you were aware of and recall?:)

(...don't worry, I won't be asking for your finger prints anytime soon...err..)

It may be a sign of an opening of the 3rd eye/intuitive ability type of thing. Our heads (as a species) are full of stuff that can interfere with the intuitive process. Hard to fill a bucket that is already full 😉

There was no sensation with the brain picking or shiny disc. Just kind of felt one with the process.

It may be a sign of an opening of the 3rd eye/intuitive ability type of thing. Our heads (as a species) are full of stuff that can interfere with the intuitive process. Hard to fill a bucket that is already full 😉

So the disc/sun was in more of a frontal position?

It may be a sign of an opening of the 3rd eye/intuitive ability type of thing. Our heads (as a species) are full of stuff that can interfere with the intuitive process. Hard to fill a bucket that is already full 😉

There was no sensation with the brain picking or shiny disc. Just kind of felt one with the process.

I remember reading on one of [url]your posts[/url], RP, that you originally wanted to be a spiritual/energy healer.... maybe this will give you a gentle nudge in that direction (?)

So the disc/sun was in more of a frontal position?

I remember reading on one of [url]your posts[/url], RP, that you originally wanted to be a spiritual/energy healer.... maybe this will give you a gentle nudge in that direction (?)

Right bang in the centre!!

You've been ploughing through my posts! Hope it was interesting 😀

Energy healing is there where ever I need to plug into it 😉 Probably relie on it more as my body wears out and can't do so much hardcore massage.

You've been ploughing through my posts! Hope it was interesting 😀

No, I just pay attention...

Energy healing is there where ever I need to plug into it 😉 Probably relie on it more as my body wears out and can't do so much hardcore massage.

That's what I was thinking;)

Energy healing is there where ever I need to plug into it 😉 Probably relie on it more as my body wears out and can't do so much hardcore massage.

You'll be able to heal yourself when your body wears out though, right?

You'll be able to heal yourself when your body wears out though, right?

Yes & No. The body has amazing self-healing capacities, but due to being a physical entity and the laws of the universe, it WILL fall apart and die. Nothing anyone can do about that. Meanwhile looking after the body gets the best out of it. After all, not looking after ourselves is disrespectful to our ancestors who worked hard to propagate us.

Oh dear this thread is going off topic. But I have a feeling no one is going to mind too much.

Cheers

RP

Oh dear this thread is going off topic. But I have a feeling no one is going to mind too much.

Cheers

RP

..this little image is quiet cute don't, you think - look at all of the interesting details:

:offtopic:

Yes & No. The body has amazing self-healing capacities, but due to being a physical entity and the laws of the universe, it WILL fall apart and die. Nothing anyone can do about that. Meanwhile looking after the body gets the best out of it. After all, not looking after ourselves is disrespectful to our ancestors who hard to propagate us.

Oh dear this thread is going off topic. But I have a feeling no one is going to mind too much.

Cheers

RP

You could always start up another thread.

The main intention was to shift a sense of stagnation i was feeling at the time. I just allowed the practitioner to "tune in" to what was needed. She smudged and drummed, and did some kind of energy healing especially on my heart centre (can't remember in which order). Her guides (whatever form they took, don't know) suggested that we needed to work on a situation where I was 6 years old, where I had an emotional loss. The mechanisms behind that part of the session I don't know or simply can't remember.

I'm really glad that you feel better for it. Not much more I can say, I think.