Parents of ill vegan girl may face police

An interesting article Darren and it does show the lack of understanding of diet that many people have, whether they are parents or not and whether they are vegan, vegetarian or carnivor.

I'm a little bemused by the section of the article...

Last year, an American vegan couple were given a life sentence for starving their six-week-old baby to death. In 2001 two vegans from west London were sentenced to three years’ community rehabilitation after they admitted starving their baby to death.

I don't see how starving children to death has anything to do with a child suffering from an issue caused by poor diet. Just because the parents of these other children were vegan doesn't tell us that it was veganism that was the cause of death, that's just implied. :confused:

Love and Reiki Hugs

Yeah, I was going to write that but thought I'd hold back to let others read it first.

It is a wider issue that people adopt diets/food choices without doing suitable research to see if it's healthy or not.

Hmm I see your point, but it does highlight the issue that many poeple, whether it's a vegan, raw food or carb free diet, are malinformed and the consequences of misinformation or ignorance can be very dangerous. With all diets, including the tv dinner families, it's about moderation, understanding and adapting. Vegan or not, the child should have been taken to the doctors long ago. It is a form of abuse and obviously neglect if they haven't adapted to cater for the malnutrition.

a vegan diet is healthier than any other diet , these aritlces below just go to try and sterotype people following a vegan diet to be freaks.

Many of my friends have themselves been brought up on vegan diets and their children too and are perfectly healthy and happy.

What's to say this poor 12 year old would not have got this illness anyway, or would this and other examples listed ever had made it to the papers if the family had been a meat eating family? How many cases of child abuse do we hear about all the time but if the parents are meat eaters that isnt part of the story.
How many children each year get cancer or other illnesses each year that come from meat eatting families but this is never an issue,nor should it be just as it shouldnt be with vegan families. The abuse itself shoudl be the issue , the fact the children were not fed shoudl be the issue not what diet the family followed.

And just for info, you can get your dose of Vit D you get from exposure to the sun , maybe she was kept inside too much.

And as for the Jonathan Sher, head of policy at Children in Scotland saying parents who bring up their children on a vegan diet need should all be watched by social services just proves his total and utter ignorance of food and healthy eating of all diets.
And to say social services should interven when paretns bring up their children vegan is a joke, what about lactose intollerant children are tehy going to be kept an eye on too? Does he think social services have enough staff to watch every child?

a vegan diet is healthier than any other diet

Forgive me for being pedantic, but that has to depend on exactly who's doing the eating don't it?

But yes, I agree that I too certainly don't see what it has got to do with blaming or even naming 'vegans' per se.

.

And as for the Jonathan Sher, head of policy at Children in Scotland saying parents who bring up their children on a vegan diet need should all be watched by social services just proves his total and utter ignorance of food and healthy eating of all diets.

I think the problem is that veganism at the moment is viewed in the same way that vegetarianism was 50 years ago; freaky and a bit dangerous.

A few years ago someone I know was in hospital. The consultant came around one day and noticed that on her chart that it said that she was vegan. His comment was "I don't think much of your diet." He didn't even know what she ate!

Hi Vegan,

And just for info, you can get your dose of Vit D you get from exposure to the sun , maybe she was kept inside too much.

I thought that was an interesting statement to make as I know for a fact that sunlight itself doesn't contain vitamin D, so just went off to do a brief bit of research.

Now I can only go on what I've found in a very short space of time and based on what I've found on Wikipedia (assuming it's accurate)...

Vitamin D is a group of fat-soluble prohormones, the two major forms of which are vitamin D2 (or ergocalciferol) and vitamin D3 (or cholecalciferol).[1] The term vitamin D also refers to metabolites and other analogues of these substances. Vitamin D3 is produced in skin exposed to sunlight, specifically ultraviolet B radiation.
.
.
Vitamin D3 is synthesized from 7-dehydrocholesterol, a derivative of cholesterol, which is then photolyzed by ultraviolet light in 6-electron conrotatory electrocyclic reaction. The product is pre-vitamin D3.

7-Dehydrocholesterol is a zoosterol that functions in the serum as a cholesterol precursor, and is converted to pre-vitamin D3 in the skin, therefore functioning as provitamin-D3. The presence of this compound in human skin enables humans to manufacture vitamin D3 from ultra-violet rays in the sun light, via an intermediate isomer pre-vitamin D3.

Sterols of plants are called phytosterols and sterols of animals are called zoosterols. Important zoosterols are cholesterol and some steroid hormones; notable phytosterols include campesterol, sitosterol, and stigmasterol. Ergosterol is a sterol present in the cell membrane of fungi, where it serves a role similar to cholesterol in animal cells.

So, from what I can tell, the Vitamin D3 is the one being referred to as the vitamin D that is created through exposure to sunlight. That is because of the synthesis of 7-Dehydrocholesterol in the skin which is a zoosterol, and according to Wiki, zoosterols are the storols of animals rather than the sterols of plants, which would suggest that these animals zoosterols are needed in order to create vitamin D3 in sunlight. This makes me question whether someone on a vegan diet is really getting the Vitamin D they need, no matter how much exposure to sunlight they are getting?

I need to look into it further myself to be sure, but that's what it sounds like from that little research I've done.

Love and Reiki Hugs

Info from the Vegan Society

"Vegans usually obtain vitamin D from the action of sunlight on the skin or by taking fortified foods such as soya milk, margarine (all of which are fortified by law in the UK), breakfast cereals and vitamin supplements which are made from yeast or other fungi. Fortified vegan products contain D2 (ergocalciferol). Foods with naturally occurring vitamin D are, however, usually animal derived containing the vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol).

The most significant supply of vitamin D (for omnivores as well as vegans) comes from the action of ultra-violet B light on sterols in the skin. Most people, including infants require little or no extra from food when regularly exposed to sunlight when the sun is high in the sky. Bright sunlight is not necessary; even the sky shine on a cloudy summer day will stimulate formation of some D in the skin, while a short summer holiday in the open air will increase blood levels of the vitamin by two or three times the amount.

[In Britain] Winter time supplies of vitamin D depend on the previous summers exposure creating adequate stores in the liver, or on dietary sources. Adult vegans obtain adequate vitamin D if they regularly spend time outdoors in spring, summer and autumn.

Parents are advised to include vitamin D fortified foods or supplements if they wean their infants during the winter months, especially if they are dark skinned."

[DLMURL="http://www.vegansociety.com/food/nutrition/vitaminD.php"]Vegan Society information on Vitamin D requirements[/DLMURL]

Although not vegan myself, I can see that it is entirely possible to be healthy while eating a vegan diet. However, as far as I can tell from the link (and I am well aware of how slanted news reports can be), this little girl is gravely ill and possibly harmed for life. Apparently and allegedly as a result of the food given to her by her parents. Therefore she has been mistreated by her parents. No?

xxx

Thanks Barafundle, I was looking at the links to D2 myself and wondering how Ergocalciferol actually occured in a vegan diet. So my understanding now is that the only source is those things that have been specifically fortified, in order to provide Vitamin D for non-meat eaters and those people need to make sure they include this in their diet rather than just eating natural foods e.g. people on a raw-food vegan diet are very unlikely to be ingesting any of the necessary ingredients to be converted to vitamin D.

Again I traced it through Wiki...

Ergocalciferol (Deltalin, Eli Lilly and Company) is a form of Vitamin D, also called vitamin D2. It has the systematic name "(3β,5Z,7E,22E)-9,10-secoergosta-5,7,10(19),22-tetraen-3-ol". It is created from viosterol, which in turn is created when ultraviolet light activates ergosterol.

viosterol just links to the following...

Ergosterol (ergosta-5,7,22-trien-3β-ol), a sterol, is a biological precursor to Vitamin D2. It is turned into viosterol by ultraviolet light, and is then converted into ergocalciferol, which is a form of Vitamin D.
Ergosterol is a component of fungal cell membranes, serving the same function that cholesterol serves in animal cells.

Although the link about [url]Ergosterol safety data[/url] is a bit of concern. I assume they are referring to it in a pure form, or probably there are 'permitted' levels in foodstuffs, otherwise it wouldn't be possible to fortify the foods as already mentioned.

Interesting stuff, but I think it's clear to see how, perhaps, some vegans are missing out on Vitamin D without realising it, especially if they believe they can just go out in the sunshine and create some. Without the building blocks of the vitamin within the skin, there's nothing to convert with the sunlight.

Love and Reiki Hugs

Apparently and allegedly as a result of the food given to her by her parents. Therefore she has been mistreated by her parents. No?

That is the implication of the article Sunanda. Though poor diet does seem the most obvious cause on the face of it, one reason why the parents haven't already been reported to the authorities is probably because the hospital is investigating other possible causes of the illness.

That is the implication of the article Sunanda. Though poor diet does seem the most obvious cause on the face of it, one reason why the parents haven't already been reported to the authorities is probably because the hospital is investigating other possible causes of the illness.

And, of course, should there turn out to be other causes we will probably never hear of them...

And, of course, should there turn out to be other causes we will probably never hear of them...

That is the way of it usually, and the assumptions and stereotypes are reinforced by the omission.

Interesting stuff. Keep going!

As an aside, I wonder if people with obese children who feed their children burger and chips every day will also be in trouble.

As an aside, I wonder if people with obese children who feed their children burger and chips every day will also be in trouble.

Yes, I'd thought that myself. There was the case of a 15 stone eight year old boy in the news last year. He didn't make the news when he was 12 stone, or 13 stone, but it was thought newsworthy when he got to 15!

So far this has apparently been more acceptable in our society...

[url]McDonalds article[/url]

"Child obesity rates have trebled over the last 20 years, with 10 per cent of six-year-olds and 17 per cent of 15-year-olds now obese.

By 2050, half of all primary school-age boys and a fifth of girls could be so overweight that their health is at serious risk."

I've just joined this forum, actually due to this thread, but also find some other topics rather amusing too. I was infact trying to find more detailed information for the article in question.

My own opinion is this girl in question hasn't been given enough exposure to sunlight, and has been stuck indoors for far too long. I know many people who have been brought up as either vegans or without vitamin-D rich food (it is in very few foods so it is easy not to have it in your diet), like oily fish, just because they don't like them, and they're fine, because they play-outside as oftenly as possible. Also, very small amounts are found in dairy products, infact you would have to consume ALOT to have your RDA.

Many parents have an assumption that they must not expose their children to the sun, infact I see far too many pushing their children about in prams excessively trying to stop any sunlight coming into contact with their bodies. And I believe this is causing a new epidemic for rickets. Perhaps these parents were over-protective in that area? I also think, unnaturally as adults we spend too much time indoors. A large percentage of the population have jobs that require them to be indoors.

Also, Vitamin D-2 (those found in fortified products) is apparently less potent than D-3, although new research coming out is suggesting otherwise. Things in science seem to always be changing in opinion.

At the end of the day, we do not know the full story of this girl. And we probably never will. We are all speculating....

My own opinion is this girl in question hasn't been given enough exposure to sunlight, and has been stuck indoors for far too long.

This is a possibility Fiona. Vitamin D deficiency is most common in northern countries, but also exists in parts of the Islamic world where tradition dictates that the body is well covered. Maybe this is another reason why the hospital isn't taking the same stand as the media just yet, in condemning the parents.

P.S. I didn't say welcome to Healthy Pages, Fiona!

I wish I didn't read the comments! There really are some stupid people out there.

Maybe stupid is unfair, ill-informed!

This is a possibility Fiona. Vitamin D deficiency is most common in northern countries, but also exists in parts of the Islamic world where tradition dictates that the body is well covered. Maybe this is another reason why the hospital isn't taking the same stand as the media just yet, in condemning the parents.

P.S. I didn't say welcome to Healthy Pages, Fiona!

Thank-you. I may post in the Welcome Forum after this.

Covering up, as well as regularly applying high factor suncreams can both minimize your intake of vitamin-D.

btw -- My little boy is a vegan, not by choice I am strict vegetarian (well vegan atm due to breastfeeding) and he has an intolerence to both egg and dairy at the moment. And I don't feel I am restricting anything, I take him out in a sling daily for hours at a time. I have a parasol for scorching heat to stop any burning, but don't use it all the time. And he is healthy

Covering up, as well as regularly applying high factor suncreams can both minimize your intake of vitamin-D.

From what info I've found so far and what Barafundle has also provided I think we need to be careful not to mislead people (I know that wasn't your intention) regarding sunlight and vitamin D. I just think that we need to be clear that we don't 'intake' vitamin D from sunlight, but we need the consituent ingredients within the skin for the sunlight to synthesize into Vit. D.

I get the feeling that some people may read information on the web and think they can just get vitamin D from being in the sunlight. That's not how I understand it.

Love and Reiki Hugs

I wish I didn't read the comments! There really are some stupid people out there.

Maybe stupid is unfair, ill-informed!

Which comments are they, Sal?

Another example of peopels abuse of their children, I call them people becuase I dont feel this woman deserves to be called a mother.

[url]Fears For Obese Baby [/url]

18m of age, been fed on a diet of chips, The youngster occasionally extends her diet to take in chocolate, crisps, cereal and Coca-Cola .

Hi ya

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned that to receive optimal synthesis of Vitamin D in the skin, you have to be exposed to sunlight sometime between the hours of 10am to 2pm.

:nature-smiley-008:

Cheers

RP

From what info I've found so far and what Barafundle has also provided I think we need to be careful not to mislead people (I know that wasn't your intention) regarding sunlight and vitamin D. I just think that we need to be clear that we don't 'intake' vitamin D from sunlight, but we need the consituent ingredients within the skin for the sunlight to synthesize into Vit. D.

I get the feeling that some people may read information on the web and think they can just get vitamin D from being in the sunlight. That's not how I understand it.

Phytosterols as far as I'm aware can be converted into....7-Dehydrocholesterol ... let me know if you find out anything different.

Phytosterols as far as I'm aware can be converted into....7-Dehydrocholesterol ... let me know if you find out anything different.

I've had a browse of the internet (those sites I can get to from work - we have some internet restrictions ;)), but from what I can see Phytosterols only serve to help with cholestorol levels. All the information relating to Vitamin D suggests that (as shown on the Wiki Vitamin D page...)

Natural sources of vitamin D include:

• Fish liver oils, such as [url]cod liver oil[/url], 1 (15 mL) provides 1,360 IU
• Fatty fish species, such as:
  • provides 1383 IU
  • provides 425 IU
  • provides 360 IU
  • , cooked, 3.5 oz, 345 IU
  • , canned in oil, drained, 1.75 oz, 250 IU
  • , canned in oil, 3 oz, 200 IU
  • , cooked, 3.5 oz, 200 IU
• <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="Mushrooms">Mushrooms provide over 2700 IU per serving (approx. 3 <a class="go2wpf-bbcode" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="oz">oz or 1/2 cup) of [url]vitamin D2[/url], if exposed to just 5 minutes of UV light after being harvested;.
• One whole , 20 IU