Jesus was a vegan

Myarka: Firstly, I do not know the 'Principled' lady, I'm sure she is very nice, but I did not find her reply very ''gracious''.

Judy has made many posts of the last few weeks in reference to her faith, and therefore not hard to see that she is indeed full of grace.

I also am allowed to express an opinion, yes?

The nature of forums that all are entitled to an opinion, but because you disagree with someone, you should not be personal about them.

You are my brother and I wish you well, but respect has to be earned. In the last week, you started off by inciting people not to buy flowers from abroad, if everyone followed your advice the women (and their children) who work in these flower industries would lose their jobs and end up homeless and destitute, and probably a lot of them would end up in prostitution as they'd have no other means of earning money....

I outlined the pros and cons of both sides of the arguments, and it seems that human rights organisations agree with me about choosing fair trade products over exploitation.

You then went on saying that the Israelis had killed 2 million Palestinians, a statement which was totally untrue and could serve no other purpose than stirring up anti-Semetic feeling...Now here you are condoning animal abuse and putting words in my mouth.

And I also gave you substanciated figures too for 2000-2008. But I still can't understand why you are arguing that the killing of innocent children is anti-semetic. My arguments are against the Israeli government, not the Jewish people.

I don't believe in karma, but Mother Earth is my Goddess and queen, therefore I give honour to all things under her creation. For we came from the dust of the earth, and there we will return and will be reborn as part of her creation.

Myarka.

Getting a bit tiresome...

I think you have a selective memory my friend!
Gibby's message was addressed to me personally, nothing to do with you, but you butted in, kicked him down,, belittled him and tried to totally crush his point of view. That is ''mutual respect''?
And kindly do not twist things, I said her posting was not very gracious, which it wasn't, I never said she wasn't gracious.
Actually you said people should not buy flowers from overseas - full stop. You only added the bit about fair trade after I'd taken you to task about the consequences of your original statement.
You only gave the 2000 - 2008 figures after I'd pulled you up about your 2 million statement. Feelings are running high enough as it is, putting out a totally false figure, up to a hundred times more than the true figure, is only going to stir up anti-Semetic feeling and inflame tensions even further. Innocent Jewish people in this country are being subjected to racist attacks and abuse you know? At times like this you need to be careful about what you say .
Lets draw a line under all this shall we.

35 seconds...

Principled: How many years have you been a Christian Scientist? I've never had any involvement in Christian Science - not in any way, shape or form. I had to look it up on Google.
It took me 35 seconds to find out that Mary Baker Eddy had published a pamphlet supporting vegetarianism and made the statement ''The Deity is not carnivorous'' - exactly the same message as I'm extolling!
The Deity is not carnivorous i.e. God is a vegan i.e. God is not a monster who goes around hurting and killing. i.e. God is love...(I seem to have heard that phrase before somewhere...)
In accordance with the law of love, Jesus, James, Matthew, Peter...they were all vegan.

Gospel truth?

No less an authority than the Catholic Encyclopaedia, the Roman Catholic Church's own official recorded history, admits that the original scriptures underwent ''years of revision'' and that ''even the genuine epistles were greatly interpolated.'' As Ludemann wrote concerning the Pauline Epistles, ''Scholars generally agree that of the thirteen extant letters, seven are authentic (Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, 1 Thessalonians and Philemon.) whereas the rest have been composed by later disciple's in the apostle's name.''
Numerous of the myths and legends of paganisn were adpoted and 'Christianized' and fraudulently incorporated into Christian doctrine. Likewise the pagan holy days - Dec. 25th ( birthday of Mithra), Black Friday, ( execution /death of Mithra) Eastra ( pagan spring equinox festival) Sunday ( sabbath day of the sun god Mithra) etc.
Consider too the various contradictions e.g. the genealogy of Jesus - who was Joseph's father, was it Jacob as it says in Matthew or Heli as it says in Luke? If you compare the two you'll see that both are totally different, which is correct? Though if Jesus is physically the son of God, as the Church has always said, then neither is correct.
The Bible is a great book and there is much wisdom therein from which we can all gain, but there is a higher, more beautiful truth.

Lets draw a line under all this shall we.

I thought you wanted to draw a line? Or do you mean that you can keep changing history to support your arguments, and everyone who disagrees can't post their opinion?

Myarka.

BTW. This is why I disagree with you:

There is a bit in the bible that states that jesus gave a sermon that an animal should never be harmed or killed - unless it was very ill & couldnt be healed

[url]In The Gospel of the Nazirene[/url]

The Buddha also taught in his later life that if we have a choice to not touch meat we should avoid it.

I find it amazing that major religions seem to miss out these bits

I did a Christian Aid climate do and we were invited to to put on a veggie info stall.
when I pushed the organisers why they promoted sending animals to 3rd world countries to eat the grains needed for starving kids they got very annoyed and confised.
I kept questioning the issues this raised and they were stuck when I pointed out that goats, like cows & humans only produced milk when pregnant.
I dont think they understood that humans only make milk when they have young on the way.
I also pointed this passge out to the vicar & he too was a bit shocked

we didnt get invited back the year after

truth hurts

G

There is no "gospel of the Nazirene" in any Bible that I've ever read.

Being vegetarian or vegan is a life choice that many hungry people in the 'third world' do not have. If a bit of old goat is all you've got - then a bit of old goat is what you eat. The great thing about goats is that they don't need grain, they eat anything - even thorny bushes - which might be the only thing that grows in some arid areas. It is not true that animals and humans only produce milk when pregnant - once they have been pregnant they go on producing milk, in theory, indefinitely - as long as they are milked regularly.

It is true that Buddhism preaches the doctrine of Ahimsa (not causing harm to any living thing), which would preclude killing animals for food, but many Buddhists do eat meat. Buddhist monks, who beg for their food, are supposed to eat what they are given - even if that includes meat; their only justification for refusing it would be if they believed it had been killed expressly for them.

Dear knightofalbion,

I apologise if you thought I was rude - actually, it was probably the remarks in the website which you are reacting to. It was discussing the "channeled" book which you are insisting is fact in a rather cynical way, but have you read the whole page? I'm sorry K, but one simply can't change history to suit your own way of thinking, no matter how good and how moral and desirable that may be.

I wasn't going to come back into this thread as it seemed pointless. Anyone trying to give a different (historical) viewpoint just got abuse from you. But when Myarka (who isn't even a Christian but was standing up for fact and reality) started getting abuse too, I decided to do a bit of research about the Gospel of the Holy Twelve that you were using as your source material and found that it was a con. This book was not found in ancient manuscripts in Tibet (strange that the rest of the academic world had never heard of it or done carbon dating etc) but was written by a vegan with an agenda.

Reverend Gideon Jasper Richard Ouseley claims that the text which resulted in the Gospel of the Holy Twelve (or the Gospel of the Perfect Life) was given to him in nightly ‘illuminations,’ dreams and visions in the night wherein Jesus Christ translated the text from the original Aramaic along with the help of several well known historical mystics – among them Emanuel Swedenborg, Anna Kingsford and Edward Maitland - and a Franciscan priest named Placidus.

Of course you are angry with me, I've just exposed the false premise that you are standing on. Like Myarka, I'm simply standing for truth here. I don't have any desire to have a go at you K. I ended my post with this urging - a call to open your eyes and see the truth!

Wake up and join the real world knightofalbion. Of course you dearly wish that Jesus was a vegan, for the reasons I posted earlier, he was not - there is simply too much real evidence. But that doesn't make him an evil man and that never took away from him any of his love or spiritual power.

It took me 35 seconds to find out that Mary Baker Eddy had published a pamphlet supporting vegetarianism and made the statement ''The Deity is not carnivorous'' - exactly the same message as I'm extolling!
The Deity is not carnivorous i.e. God is a vegan

Strange, Mary Baker Eddy defies God as:
[COLOR="Blue"]
God is incorporeal, divine, supreme, infinite Mind, Spirit, Soul, Principle, Life, Truth, Love. (Science and Health 465)

GOD. The great I AM; the all-knowing, all-seeing, all-acting, all-wise, all-loving, and eternal; Principle; Mind; Soul; Spirit; Life; Truth; Love; all substance; intelligence. (Science and Health 586)

The dictionary defines “incorporeal” as “Not corporeal; not having a material body or form; not consisting of matter; immaterial.”
God is Love itself – God is intelligence, the divine Mind, God is Life itself, God is Truth itself. If Life, Truth, Love doesn’t have a body, how could it eat – vegan, meat or whatever?

I have all the published writings of Mary Baker Eddy on my computer and that phrase is not in them. However, writing of spiritual reality, she does say:
[COLOR="Blue"]
Tenderness accompanies all the might imparted by Spirit. The individuality created by God is not carnivorous, as witness the millennial estate pictured by Isaiah:--

The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard shall lie down with the kid;
And the calf and the young lion,
and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
(Science and Health 514)

You obviously have decided that Ouseley’s fabrication is real and nothing will change your mind. In that case, I see no further reason for any of us to continue writing on this thread.

Love and peace,

Judy

The Essenes

In 1881 an English minister, Rev. G.J. Ouseley, got hold of a hitherto unknown, not rewritten evangelical text. This uncorrupted text has century after century been secured from all falsification in a Buddhist monastry in Tibet, since the day a man has hidden it there, a man of the Essene society. Ouseley translated the aramaic text and gave it the name The Gospel of The Holy Twelve. It was later translated into German.
During the last century also many old fragments of the gospel have come to light. Some have been found in old libraries and other from excavations. These fragments are called 'Logins' or 'Agraphas'. They are older than and more original than the canonized gospels. Their great value is due to the fact that they are uncorrupted. The curious thing is, however, that many parts of these fragments mostly agree word for word, with the gospel of Ouseley, though they are completely missing in the canonical gospels. - Ebba Waerland

Myarka: I viewed the website you posted...
May I ask how many of those Greek MSS have you seen, read and verified????
I want you to give me a list of which of those third hand MSS listed show Jesus as not being a vegan...Which ones show God as sanctioning animal sacrifice/eating flesh-meat; as the same being the will of God???
You say you believe those MSS to be true - so true you're a pagan! Were they true, you, being a pagan, would be on a one way ticket to hell!
They do not show the original teachings. The Book of Genesis for example (Dead Sea Scrolls) speaks of a Father-Mother God. Where does it say that in your Greek manuscripts?!

A further example: " To convey the enormity of the problem, one scholar describes selecting a place in the gospels completely at random (in this case he chose Mark 10 - 11) and checking to see how many differences were recorded between the various early manuscripts for these passages. He discovered "no fewer than 48 places where the manuscripts differ, sometimes there are only two possibilities, often there are three or more, and in one case there were six!"
Scholars also know that whole sections of the gospels were added later. For example, originally Mark did not contain any words beyond chapter 16 verse 8 - the fear of the women at their discovery of the empty tomb. The so-called 'long ending', in which the risen Jesus appears to his disciples, is not found in any early maunscripts and yet now appears in nearly all New Testaments."- The Jesus Mysteries

Even the false prophet Mary Eddy Baker stated that the Bible was "a dark book" and "had many mistakes". She also came up with - abridged - "The decisions by the Church Councils (*Nicaea and Ancyra)..The manifest mistakes in the ancient versions, the 30,000 deferent readings in the Old Testament and the 300,000 in the New...these facts show how a mortal and material sense stole into the Divine record, with its own hue darkening to some extent, the inspired pages."

And what exactly is your point anyway? My view is that only the first century Essene gospels, written in the orignal Aramaic, hold the truth. Of course other people have different viewpoints. Some believe every word of the Bible is true...Those of the 'historical Jesus and mythical Christ' fraternity believe there never was any Jesus in the first place....Muslims believe that Jesus was just a man and he didn't die on the cross and wasn't resurrected...And there are many old MSS in Arabia, Persia, Ladakh, Tibet, India and Kashmir purporting to show Jesus - and Mary Magdalene travelling to , and teaching in, Asia, years after - after!!! - the crucifixion. So you can take your pick.

This uncorrupted text has century after century been secured from all falsification in a Buddhist monastry in Tibet, since the day a man has hidden it there, a man of the Essene society.

If you consider all the essene texts that have been found, and I mean genuine essene tests, i.e. found that were hidden in local. You will see a completely different side of the essenes, for example how do you explain away the great war scroll and the meal time practices of the essenes?

It's actually very superficial to consider the essenes as christian, because theri practices were particularly unloving.

Myarka.

Principled: No-one has abused you or Myarka. On the contrary, it has been the other way round! Twice you launched a rude, vicious, spiteful, unprovoked attack. Your behaviour, like your argument, does not ring true with your supposed righteousness.
As for your attack on channeling. If you discount this method of communication with the Spirit, then most of the world's holy books, all of the Spiritualist teaching - from White Eagle to Silver Birch, the Ten Commandments, and most of the Old Testament, would have to end up in the bin! And if you reject the workings of the Spirit, then spiritual healing and life after death would have to go in there too! Oh and while I'm at it, did not your self-proclaimed prophet MBE claim that her 'teachings' were "inspired of God"...What do you think that means???
And on the subject of MBE. "No man can serve two masters". I was shocked to read that she died a millionaire!!!! The idea of spiritual teaching is to help others. It would seem she was quite generous at helping herself!

Myarka: I viewed the website you posted...
May I ask how many of those Greek MSS have you seen, read and verified????

I'm not a greek scholar, but I studied 3 year at a theological seminary. My best man's dad who when we was on this earth taught me about textual analysis was a Cambridge PhD in Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew.

So yes, I admit I'm not qualified.... As they say I showed you mine, now what's yours? ;).

If you want to know the origins of my data use Google, because there are thousands of sites and universities that will say tha same as me.

Myarka.

Part One - The Essenes

You are a mine of misinformation.
Pliny said of the Essenes that they were ''a race by themselves, more remarkable than any other in all the world.'' Philo described them as living each day in ''constant and unalterable holiness.'' Whereas the Roman historian Josephus described the Essenes as having ''a reputation for cultivating a particuarly saintly life'' Adding ,''Rightly do they deserve to be called an example for the life of other people.''
All the historians of the day acknowledge that the Essenes were pacifists. The War Scroll is allegorical, and in any case it makes no mention or reference of/to the Essenes.

Part Two: A loss of faith

I'm sure there are many pro-Church/Bible websites. That makes it 'right' does it?
You say you hold those MSS to be true - so true you're a pagan! Some might construe that as being somewhat hypocritical. The Church says its way is the one and only way... The Bible has numerous verses that advocate doing harm to those of pagan faith. Indeed a few hundred years ago you probably would have been burnt at the stake. So I find your stance on this matter totally baffling to say the least.
So, you were in a Catholic seminary for 3 years - and now you're a pagan. Hardly the best advertisement for the Catholic Church.
You go into a Catholic seminary, to become a Catholic priest, to serve the Catholic Church and for that purpose they teach you Catholic doctrine, but what they teach you is Churchianity not Christianity.
I have studied the subject for 25 years and unlike yourself have not abandoned my faith for another. Indeed, in that time my faith has only been strengthened.

You say you hold those MSS to be true - so true you're a pagan! Some might construe that as being somewhat hypocritical. The Church says its way is the one and only way... The Bible has numerous verses that advocate doing harm to those of pagan faith. Indeed a few hundred years ago you probably would have been burnt at the stake. So I find your stance on this matter totally baffling to say the least.
So, you were in a Catholic seminary for 3 years - and now you're a pagan. Hardly the best advertisement for the Catholic Church.
You go into a Catholic seminary, to become a Catholic priest, to serve the Catholic Church and for that purpose they teach you Catholic doctrine, but what they teach you is Churchianity not Christianity.
I have studied the subject for 25 years and unlike yourself have not abandoned my faith for another. Indeed, in that time my faith has only been strengthened.

I said theological seminary, nothing to do with the Roman Catholic church. Yes, I'm a pagan and as a pagan I'm entitled to study history as much as anyone. It doesn't mean I have to agree with their content.

You criticize my background, but as I said I've shown mine, now show yours..

Myarka.