Christianity suffered a major schism at the Council of Nicaea, A.D. 325. Many of the beautiful teachings of true Christianity - reverence for all creation, veganism, anti - hunting, the honouring of women etc - were purposely suppressed, and spurious interpolations were made.
(The Roman Emperor Constantine had hit on the idea of introducing a new 'super religion' to unify all the peoples of his crumbling Empire. As a result of his 'fiery cross' vision , which he took as an omen of good fortune, he decided that Christianity fitted the bill, but because of said beautiful teachings were obnoxious to the degenerate, vegetarian-hating Constantine, and would have been similarly so to the meat-eating, hunt-loving, alcohol-drinking, chauvinistic masses of the day they were suppressed.
Numerous of the pagan festivals and holy days i.e. Dec. 25th (Jan. 6th was the true Christmas Day - origin of thre 12 days of Christmas) Eastra, Black Friday, Sunday .. wee adpoted and 'Christianized' for the same reason.
"For of the fruits of the trees and the seeds of the herbs (cereals - wheat, corn etc.) alone do I partake" - Jesus. Gospel of the Holy Twelve
Now, Mary and Joseph, his parents, went up to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the Passover and they observed the feast after the manner of their brethren (The Essenes), who abstained from bloodshed and the eating of flesh, and from strong drink. - Gospel of the Holy Twelve.
John had his raiment of camel's hair and a girdle of the same about his loins, and his meat was the fruit of the locust tree (carob) and wild honey. - Gospel of the Holy Twelve
(NB: The first and only rule of discipleship is that the disciple is in all things 'as the master'.)
The earliest Christian writer, Hegesippus, says of James, brother of Jesus, and first ruler of the Christian Church in Jerusalem, that he "drank no wine, nor strong drink, nor ate he any living thing; even his clothes were free from any taint of death, for he wore no woolen , but linen garments only."
(St. Augustine also records James as being a vegan.)
Clement of Alexandria records tthat "The Apostle Matthew partook of seeds and nuts and vegetables, abstaining from flesh."
The Clementine Homilies quote the Apostle Peter as saying, "I live on olives and bread to which I only rarely add vegetables."
The Clementine Homilies also add this damning indictment of meat-eating "The unnatural eating of flesh-meats is as polluting as the heathen worship of devils, with its sacrifices and its impure feasts, through participation in which a man becomes a dining companion with devils."
He had a choice to be a vegan.....he was a Carpenter, but chose not to work.......He also found his feminine side and chose not to have women disciples or a wife.......Can we really be sure ?.
Gosh, I'm not even a Christian but I know this is a very different to real Christian history. There is no evidence the Mary and Joseph were Essenes although many have that John the Baptist may have been because of his lifestyle.
Your selection of texts disagrees with the 7000 odd partial and complete aramaic texts, i.e. not latin. The oldests texts do not promote veganism in any way. Many forget there was a Christian church that evolved outside of Constantine's influence.
Myarka.
Interesting post, Knightofalbion.
I read somewhere once that in the original Greek versions of the New Testament the 15 different words that have been translated as meaning 'meat' should be more accurately translated as being general terms for 'food'.
I once had a conversation with Jehovah's Witnesses about this sort of thing. They were explaining that God's Kingdom would be restored on Earth and we would all (if we were Jehovah Witnesses that is) soon be living in a new Eden. They were prepared for it they said, and asked whether I was.
I asked them whether they were vegetarian. They weren't, and I reminded them that to live in the garden of Eden we would all need to be vegetarian.
"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."
Genesis 1:29
They didn't know what to say. 🙂
I wouldn't normally get into this sort of thing with anyone, but they had come to my doorstep with the intention of lecturing me so I felt I was justified on this occasion.
They are meant to abstain from taking blood into the body...
"And whatever man of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell among you, who eats any blood, I will set My face against that person who eats blood, and will cut him off from among his people."
Leviticus 17-10
...and one of them did say proudly she had once taken a chicken back to the shop because it contained too much blood.
On principle she wouldn't allow her child a blood transfusion, but hadn't thought of not eating meat to avoid it!!! :confused:
St. John eating locusts is often misunderstood. The carob bean, or locust bean is called St. John's Bread. I surprised a couple of Mormons once by explaining St. John's locusts weren't of the insects variety.
He also found his feminine side and chose not to have women disciples
I think he did Oakapple. Mary Magdelene among others.
The words of holy communion are:
Take and eat; this is my body given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.
This cup is the new covenant in my blood, shed for you and for all for the forgiveness of sin.
Not saying that you are wrong, but it seems strange that this would be the tradition if what you are saying is true.
Then there are the examples of changing water into wine and feeding fish to the 5,000.
To add to what Holos has said, there are several accounts of him feeding people with fish and eating it. Also, what I had never thought about before I Googled this today, Jesus was a practising Jew and he followed in the spirit of all the Jewish laws, which would have included dietary laws - for instance, he would not have eaten pork or shellfish.
In addition, at the Passover, which he certainly celebrated, the law says you have to eat a lamb….
What did Jesus eat?
Did Jesus eat anything other than fish?
People will argue for ever for their particular slant on things and it is possible that those who wrote the Essene gospels were in some ways telling things the way they would like them. It's also possible that it was the other way around. No-one knows for sure. Historically though, the odds are that he lived a normal Jewish life which included eating meat.
Just thought you might be interested to read Jesus' instructions about eating:
[COLOR="Indigo"]
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Matt 6
And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give:... And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you. Luke 10
So to me, he was saying not to be particular about what food you eat, but to eat whatever is put in front of you.
Love and peace,
Judy
PS Oakapple, Barafundle is right about Mary Magdalene, though she (and the other women) would not have traveled with him as did the 12 or they would have been considered whores. I've written about this recently on the Christianity pages.
PS Oakapple, Barafundle is right about Mary Magdalene, though she (and the other women) would not have traveled with him as did the 12 or they would have been considered whores. I've written about this recently on the Christianity pages.
Thanks Judy.......and of course...Barafundle, for pointing this out
What I mean was ...Mary Magdalene was not included as one of the chosen disciples at the last supper or as a close companion.
I would just like to add.......I don't think Jesus would see any people starve uneccessarily, as we saw when he fed the masses with just a few loaves of bread and a handful of fish...
Just as a by-the-way, I think I remember reading somewhere that in the Middle East at the time there used to be a small loaf of bread that was called a 'fish' because of its shape.
I'll look that up if I have time (and remember to do it).
Hi Barafundle,
I’m sure there probably were loaves called fishes, but that doesn’t alter the fact that in account after account, some of the disciples were fishermen and Jesus both cooked, shared and ate fish. I’ve found some accounts below. First is from the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas:
(8) And he said, "The man is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of small fish. Among them the wise fisherman found a fine large fish. He threw all the small fish back into the sea and chose the large fish without difficulty. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear."
Luke 5 (New International Version - UK)
The Calling of the First Disciples1 One day as Jesus was standing by the Lake of Gennesaret, with the people crowding round him and listening to the word of God,
2 he saw at the water's edge two boats, left there by the fishermen, who were washing their nets.
3 He got into one of the boats, the one belonging to Simon, and asked him to put out a little from shore. Then he sat down and taught the people from the boat.
4 When he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, Put out into deep water, and let down the nets for a catch.
5 Simon answered, Master, we've worked hard all night and haven't caught anything. But because you say so, I will let down the nets.
6 When they had done so, they caught such a large number of fish that their nets began to break.
7 So they signalled to their partners in the other boat to come and help them, and they came and filled both boats so full that they began to sink.
8 When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at Jesus' knees and said, Go away from me, Lord; I am a sinful man!
9 For he and all his companions were astonished at the catch of fish they had taken,
10 and so were James and John, the sons of Zebedee, Simon's partners. Then Jesus said to Simon, Don't be afraid; from now on you will catch men.
11 So they pulled their boats up on shore, left everything and followed him.
There was the feeding of the 5,000 with 5 loaves and 2 fishes described in Matt 14, Mark 6, Luke 9 and John 6; and the feeding of the 4,000 with 7 loaves and “a few small fishes” described in Matt 15.
John 21 NIV: Jesus and the Miraculous Catch of Fish
1 Afterwards Jesus appeared again to his disciples, by the Sea of Tiberias. It happened this way:2 Simon Peter, Thomas (called Didymus), Nathanael from Cana in Galilee, the sons of Zebedee, and two other disciples were together.
3 I'm going out to fish, Simon Peter told them, and they said, We'll go with you. So they went out and got into the boat, but that night they caught nothing.
4 Early in the morning, Jesus stood on the shore, but the disciples did not realise that it was Jesus.
5 He called out to them, Friends, haven't you any fish? No, they answered.
6 He said, Throw your net on the right side of the boat and you will find some. When they did, they were unable to haul the net in because of the large number of fish.
7 Then the disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, It is the Lord! As soon as Simon Peter heard him say, It is the Lord, he wrapped his outer garment around him (for he had taken it off) and jumped into the water.
8 The other disciples followed in the boat, towing the net full of fish, for they were not far from shore, about a hundred yards.
9 When they landed, they saw a fire of burning coals there with fish on it, and some bread.
10 Jesus said to them, Bring some of the fish you have just caught.
11 Simon Peter climbed aboard and dragged the net ashore. It was full of large fish, but even with so many the net was not torn.
12 Jesus said to them, Come and have breakfast. None of the disciples dared ask him, Who are you? They knew it was the Lord.
13 Jesus came, took the bread and gave it to them, and did the same with the fish.
14 This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.
Once on a visit to the Holy Land, I visited Tiberius and standing there on the harbour wall, I have never seen so many fish in my life. There was hardly any water between them. The guide said that this abundance had started and continued after that miracle described above.
Luke 24: Jesus Appears to the Disciples
36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, Peace be with you.
37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost.
38 He said to them, Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds?
39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.
40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, Do you have anything here to eat?
42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish,
43 and he took it and ate it in their presence.
And it’s worth reading about Cornelius and Peter’s visions:
I know it’s not comfortable for people on these pages, but historically as well as from the authority that the 4 gospels have, my conclusion is that Jesus was neither a vegetarian nor a vegan.
Love and peace,
Judy
my conclusion is that Jesus was neither a vegetarian nor a vegan.
Love and peace,
Judy
Thanks for that Judy.
I came across a website a while ago that tackled these points. There's a lot to read (which is why I haven't read it all :)), but it might be worth a look...
[url]Vegetarian Jesus questions[/url]
I doubt very much whether any of it proves anything definitively, but I like the statement on their [url]Home page[/url]...
"Animals are God's creatures, not human property, nor utilities, nor resources, nor commodities, but precious beings in God's sight. ... Christians whose eyes are fixed on the awfulness of crucifixion are in a special position to understand the awfulness of innocent suffering. The Cross of Christ is God's absolute identification with the weak, the powerless, and the vulnerable, but most of all with unprotected, undefended, innocent suffering."
- Rev. Andrew Linzey
Hi Barafundle,
That web site makes some very good points. But you know, at the end of the day, I believe that one's life-choices are personal and should not be outlined by any religion or philosophy. It's between the individual and God, their prayers and their conscience.
There is a mine-field of emotive arguments out there on both sides - even down to the fact that eating anything other than fruit and nuts that grow on trees is killing a living thing. I have heard that sensors tell of tomatoes screaming when cut.
I just wanted to give some balance to the points put forward in the title.
Love and peace,
Judy
its hard to prove if jesus was a vegan. i believe it because jesus for me is the energy of love. someone who was on such high level will not have anything in him that makes him want to eat things like meat which surley would bring a low vibration to him...the vibration of fear and suffering because that animal wanted to life.
one only has to ask himself what would love do...leaving beside all those books which where written by humans which as we all do make a lot of mistakes.
so in my opinion love would not eat animals especially if one lives in the western world where we have a million and one food choices and the choice of eating animals will cause more starvation, harms the enviroment, harms our health and harms, well kills the animals.
I have heard that sensors tell of tomatoes screaming when cut.
when one is blessed with eyes and a heart that can see for example the beauty of a cow and the bond one can have with this beautiful creature..one cannot have a loving bond with a tomatoe also a cow whould like to live for about 16 years a tomatoe ripes and than wants to be eaten:013::)
tens of millions of people have nothing to eat on this planet but 37 %(in the us its 66%) of the grain harvestet goes to feeding animals in the
meetindustry
so ...what would:043: do....
Vegan World
Thank you, Barafundle. Good for you! Yes, in the beginning God commanded man to follow a purely vegan diet - Gen 1 v 29 - and the New Kingdom prophecy of Isaiah, the promise on which the whole of Christianity is based says that 'the lion shall lie down with the lamb' etc. , no wonder then that Jesus should be a vegan. And, as mentioned, independent, reliable sources tell us that James, Matthew and Peter were vegan - 'the disciple is in all things as the master.'
Loose Ends
Jesus had many women followers, but the fact that he didn't appoint any women apostles was down not to prejudice, but rather sheer practicality. In those days women were third class citizens. They weren't permitted to even enter the temple never mind preach there. If they had attempted to preach outside they would have been stoned for their audacity. And there were brigands at large in the countryside. It would have been impossible for a woman to travel (to preach the gospel) she would have been abducted and raped ...held captive or murdered.- That being said there is evidence that the Essenes had women priests in their desert communities. * Re the fishermen. Yes, they were fishermen, but after becoming Jesus's disciples they forsook their nets, renounced killing and became the spiritual 'fishers of men' instead * Re the Passover lamb. It was the custom that the head of the household/group carried out the sacrifice. If they had eaten the lamb, it would have to have been Jesus who knifed the lamb and slit its throat...Needless to say he didn't kill it. Jesus 'the Lamb of God' gave himself as the sacrifice. The esoteric lesson of the piece was/is to show that what God wants is not a blood sacrifice, but a love sacrifice i.e. service.
A matter of choice
Some believe the Bible is the word of God, others believe that it was written, compiled - and corrupted - by man. It's a matter of choice. And Jesus, wheter he condoned animal sacrifice (do not devil worshippers do the same?), killed a lamb and many thousands of fish or wheter he was a gentle, animal loving vegan so beautifully portrayed in Margaret Tarrrant's painting 'The Lesser Brethren' that is a matter of choice too, but I know which one is my Jesus.
Some believe the Bible is the word of God, others believe that it was written, compiled - and corrupted - by man. It's a matter of choice. And Jesus, wheter he condoned animal sacrifice (do not devil worshippers do the same?), killed a lamb and many thousands of fish or wheter he was a gentle, animal loving vegan so beautifully portrayed in Margaret Tarrrant's painting 'The Lesser Brethren' that is a matter of choice too, but I know which one is my Jesus.
Surely this is open to interpretation. If one wants to portray Jesus this way, then it's personal.....but the more radical in our society would say he was targeting young men.
This, holier than thou, single man, with the gift of the gab....wandering about in the desert........with your children,......what would you think.
Maybe echo's of the past come to haunt us, even in todays society.
True Messiah
Not so unusual, it was a male dominated society after all. There were numerous self-proclaimed messiahs and groups of religious zealots going about preaching their message. I imagine it would have been quite a common sight. What was unusual were the compassionate, high consciousness teachings of Jesus, which were light years ahead of their time. Remember that to orthodox Jews the messianic persona they hankered for was someone who would crush their enemies, slaughter them by the thousands. But for all that, he struck a chord with many. I guess, then as now, people hungered for truth, for something higher.
When Truth is usurped by false teaching the result is inevitably harmful. Nothing has caused more suffering than the suppression of the compassionate teachings of Jesus. Today is Christmas Day, for this day alone around half a billion creatures will have been slaughtered to satisfy the world's 'Christians' Christmas Day bloodlust... On the back of these false teachings man has subjected the Animal Kingdom to a catalogue of abuse and cruelty, something that shames us all.
Man's Sacred Trust: (Animals) ''Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there is not enough. We have a higher mission - to be of service to them wherever they require it.'' - St. Francis of Assisi
There is a bit in the bible that states that jesus gave a sermon that an animal should never be harmed or killed - unless it was very ill & couldnt be healed
[url]In The Gospel of the Nazirene[/url]
The Buddha also taught in his later life that if we have a choice to not touch meat we should avoid it.
I find it amazing that major religions seem to miss out these bits
I did a Christian Aid climate do and we were invited to to put on a veggie info stall.
when I pushed the organisers why they promoted sending animals to 3rd world countries to eat the grains needed for starving kids they got very annoyed and confised.
I kept questioning the issues this raised and they were stuck when I pointed out that goats, like cows & humans only produced milk when pregnant.
I dont think they understood that humans only make milk when they have young on the way.
I also pointed this passge out to the vicar & he too was a bit shocked
we didnt get invited back the year after
truth hurts
G
There is a bit in the bible that states that jesus gave a sermon that an animal should never be harmed or killed - unless it was very ill & couldnt be healed
[url]In The Gospel of the Nazirene[/url]
That's not in the Bible, it is a document that is external to the bible, and never been accepted as part of the Bible. I'm not Christian and have no wish to be an apologist for Christianity, but it is wrong to misrepresent textual research with speculation.
truth hurts
You may have many valid reasons for being a vegan and I respect that, but when pressure groups misrepresent the truth to argue their case they are actually doing their cause a disservice.
Myarka
Hello gibby. Thank you for your posting. Sorry for not answering sooner, but been busy elsewhere...
You mean the Essene New Testament I think, rather than the Bible New Testament. Yes, Jesus gave not just one but many sermons along those lines. Indeed, veganism/compassion/reverence for all creation were core principles of the true Christianity as originally taught by Jesus.
Yes, there are many like they blank out any thoughts that animals have souls, that have emotions - that they feel joy and sorrow and so forth. Such verities do not sit comfortably with their animal abuse! But really they are products of the Age, born of centuries of false spiritual teaching.
Good for you for speaking up on the matter.
Myarka: Well, you're not a Christian, you clearly have no knowledge of the origins and teachings of true Christianity, nor of the advent of Churchianity, yet somehow you're an 'expert' who has no qualms about coming here and kicking down poor good-hearted gibby. I've met a lot of 'bible experts' in my time and most of them couldn't distinguish Christian truth from the back end of a cow!
As mentioned previously the true Christianity as originally taught by Jesus suffered a major schism, spurious interpolations were made, teachings were altered, others suppressed altogether, subsequently a lot of Church teaching is different and in some cases exactly opposite to what Jesus really taught.
Church teaching is more to do with Paul than Jesus, which is ironic not least because Paul never even met Jesus, he was the arch-enemy of true Christianity and led a meat-eating schism against it. Not only that, several of the Pauline Epistle weren't even written by Paul and in a classic case of the biter being bit, even the genuine Pauline Epistles themselves suffered interpolation, as no less an authority than the Catholic Encyclopaedia admits.
I notice on another thread how the deaths and injury of Palestinian children have made you cry. What moves me to tears are the countless billions of animals who have met a terrifying death in the slaughterhouse; or have been tortured in vivisection laboratories; or blasted to kingdom come or ripped to pieces in the name of 'sport', all because evil people corrupted the truth, and ignorant people still continue to propagate a lie, oblivious or uncaring of the suffering they are causing in their wake.
I should add , not just to you but to everyone, that spiritual teachers must share the karmic responsibility for everything their 'audience' does with their teachings. Mislead people with false/harmful teachings and great karma can be involved. Therefore, teach love, teach kindness, teach Service....In so doing, you will truly be serving Christ.
Myarka: Well, you're not a Christian, you clearly have no knowledge of the origins and teachings of true Christianity, nor of the advent of Churchianity, yet somehow you're an 'expert' who has no qualms about coming here and kicking down poor good-hearted gibby.
I am no expert and would never profess to be an expert, but I have studied Christianity as with other things.
Perhaps it's the wonderful thing about religions that allows people to pull from them what they wish. I can argue from what I know and I am happy to do that, and I respect you for your veganism. But that doesn't make me an evil person because I eat meat. For the same reason it is intelectually incorrect to say all people who take a different biblical understanding to you are ignorant.
These forums are a place to learn and debate, and when we feel something that has been written is incorrect, as freedom of speach allows, I can raise that issue, as you can about what I write.
I recognise that you are passionate about your beliefs as I am about mine, and therefore I debate in a spirit of mutual respect.
Myarka
Gospel of Holy 12 not was a channeled book!
knightofalbion,
Just hang in there. You are condemning others as dogmatic when they do not agree with your beliefs; you are dismissing anything that does not fit in with the way you wish it to be; you are condemning all the Bible, saying it has been re-written and corrupted etc (despite the fact that original scrolls exist) and now I find out that your whole basis is a book miraculously "rewritten", not from the original, but from dreams and visions that a vegan had. Oh come on! Talk about re-writing history and corrupting the Word!
Reverend Gideon Jasper Richard Ouseley claims that the text which resulted in the Gospel of the Holy Twelve (or the Gospel of the Perfect Life) was given to him in nightly ‘illuminations,’ dreams and visions in the night wherein Jesus Christ translated the text from the original Aramaic along with the help of several well known historical mystics – among them Emanuel Swedenborg, Anna Kingsford and Edward Maitland - and a Franciscan priest named Placidus.
Yeah and people have been spoken to "by God" and told to go out and kill! :confused:
I found more info here - it's worth reading the whole article:
I first met the Rev. Gideon Jasper Richard Ouseley in October 1897, having heard of him as a vegetarian, an opponent to vivisection, and an enthusiastic advocate of the teaching of the late Dr. Anna Kingsford and Edward Maitland, as set forth in their Lectures on esoteric Christianity, published under the title of The Perfect Way or the Finding of Christ, in which I too was interested. Being at the time in Brighton, where he lived, I called upon him and received a friendly welcome. He confirmed all I had been led to believe of him, and said he was also an abstainer from alcoholic drink, and a non-smoker. He considered that "the direct cause of poverty, bad health and social misery was due to flesh-eating, alcoholic drinking and tobacco smoking". Like Anna Kingsford, he saw in the abolition of flesh-eating "the only effectual means of the world's redemption, whether as regards men themselves or the animals". The true and proper food for man, he said, was ripe fruits (including nuts), pure oil of olives, grains and vegetables, which Mother Earth brought forth in plenty for the sustenance of her children……
….Jesus, the card-carrying member of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals!
Now let me make this much clear: I have little doubt that animal cruelty falls in line on the list of sins for which men will be judged. The pledge of dominion over the earth given in Genesis assumes our responsible stewardship. But it is also clear that this "Gospel" is little more than a shameless advertisement and a fraud. The evidence for authenticity, I need not tell you, is dismal: We are told that it is derived from "one of the most ancient and complete of early Christian fragments, preserved by one of the monasteries of the Buddhist monks in Thibet, where it was hidden by some of the Essene community for safety from the hands of corrupters..." But don't plan that trip to Tibet just yet for a look, or for the purpose of verification such as carbon dating: The editors (among them, Emmanuel Swedenborg) didn't actually see this document -- it was given to them "By the Divine Spirit of the Gospel" as a revelation of "a higher Christianity." By next week sixty different groups could make a claim just as verifiable, promulgating a Jesus supporting the political venture of your choice. But it is clear from comments about this "Gospel" on the Internet that some have accepted it as a genuine record.
Which proves, once again, that critical thinking skills are at an all time low; that hearts are ruling heads from horizon to horizon. I need say little more about the "Gospel of the Holy Twelve" -- the sensible will know better than to accept it as genuine; those who do accept such works as genuine are beyond help of the sort that Tekton can offer them. Water your camel if it's thirsty, but don't do it for the sake of this con-artist contrivance.
I wish I'd looked this up earlier!
Wake up and join the real world knightofalbion. Of course you dearly wish that Jesus was a vegan, for the reasons I posted earlier, he was not - there is simply too much real evidence. But that doesn't make him an evil man and that never took away from him any of his love or spiritual power.
Love and peace,
Judy
The sign is the Truth - the pure in heart they shall see it
Principled: Ah! It's the good Christian back for another go.
Thank you for the rude, spiteful tirade. Most unbecoming...
I'll deal with you tomorrow.
PS; I require to know what your diet is, if you please.
Principled: Ah! It's the good Christian back for another go.
Thank you for the rude, spiteful tirade. Most unbecoming...
I'll deal with you tomorrow.
I'm sure if you want a forum where everyone agrees you, you can go there. Judy is a very gracious poster, so you're are way out of bounds.
Myarka.
God is a vegan!
''The Deity is not carnivorous'' - Mary Eddy Baker
Myarka: Firstly, I do not know the 'Principled' lady, I'm sure she is very nice, but I did not find her reply very ''gracious''. I also am allowed to express an opinion, yes?
You debate in a spirit of mutual respect? The same mutual respect you showed poor gibby you mean?...
You are my brother and I wish you well, but respect has to be earned. In the last week, you started off by inciting people not to buy flowers from abroad, if everyone followed your advice the women (and their children) who work in these flower industries would lose their jobs and end up homeless and destitute, and probably a lot of them would end up in prostitution as they'd have no other means of earning money....You then went on saying that the Israelis had killed 2 million Palestinians, a statement which was totally untrue and could serve no other purpose than stirring up anti-Semetic feeling...Now here you are condoning animal abuse and putting words in my mouth. I should respect all of that?
You have freewill and freedom of speech, and you can set yourself up as a spiritual teacher if you so wish - assuming you are prepared to put your soul and destiny on the line. As I said spiritual teachers must share the karmic responsibility for everything their audience, mislead people with false/harmful teachings and great karma can be involved. You miss the point, when people are ignorant of spiritual law...of the law of love...of the law of karma, carnage follows in their wake. In this instance pain, suffering and bloodshed on an unimagineable scale.
I have a different perspective to you, hence our not seeing eye to eye. Not only is their individual karma, but also there is a collective karma. Man was created to ''walk with the angels'' and to be ''the sanctuary of love and justice'', not to hurt and kill. But have 'we' followed this ideal? No. In our abuse of Mother Earth and the Animal Kingdom we have committed a very great wrong and this wrong will have to be answered for. I think I'll say no more.