So who/what created God???

RE: So who/what created God???

Don't you just love the bizarre? What I like about this site is that, despite differing opinions, there is always an underlying sense of "humour". In fact I'm considering starting a thread on "the absurd". It certainly makes more sense than "the normal" sometimes. As that wonderful songwriter, poet and writer Peter Hammill once wrote, "I sometimes forget how crazy things are, so sometimes it catches me off my guard when they make sense". Keep it serious and logical but always remember to have fun.

RE: So who/what created God???

Don't you just love the bizarre? What I like about this site is that, despite differing opinions, there is always an underlying sense of "humour". In fact I'm considering starting a thread on "the absurd". It certainly makes more sense than "the normal" sometimes. As that wonderful songwriter, poet and writer Peter Hammill once wrote, "I sometimes forget how crazy things are, so sometimes it catches me off my guard when they make sense". Keep it serious and logical but always remember to have fun.

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respect, love and equality.

I'm nominating this as an early contender for "Post of the Year".

Regards
Tucker

RE: So who/what created God???

Hi everyone,
Sorry if this is a long post but it has a lot of information that many of you will not have seen before. It is an extract by Maitreya from one of my channelled books:
“I feel that this is the time now on the Earth plane, to educate souls about the Self. Until the Self is eradicated, the Earth plane cannot move forward. What is the Self and where did it come from? In order to explain this, I need to go back in Earth time, and warn you that this may be a long teaching.
There was once a planet in a far distant galaxy which had two Suns. It was a planet of great beauty and magnitude. The two Suns fuelled the energy for this planet and they were a very advanced civilization. It was a place of happiness, contentment and serenity. The souls in their evolution had evolved over many millenniums of what you on Earth would call ‘time’, into a race of Higher Self beings. They had the ability to leave their bodies and move to an even higher vibration if they wished to do so. They created a wonderful place, which many term ‘Heaven’ or the ‘Spiritual World’, where they could go and renew themselves when they needed rest and relaxation, or simply when they just needed change. This was looked after by a group of Spiritual beings called the Brotherhood; highly evolved beings with beautiful energy. They were known by the other members as ‘The Masters.’ These souls chose to stay in this place, and assisted in the organizing of life and pleasure on the planet with two Suns.
It does not matter the name of this planet, nor where it was in the galaxy. The purpose of this channelling is to explain about the Self.
One day it was noticed that both of the Suns were losing energy, dying in other words. The Brotherhood were very concerned because they knew that without the Suns, they could not sustain their energy on a physical plane. Instructions were given to find another home. It was put to the beings on the planet that they could just go to the place of Spirit and stay there, but the souls on the planet enjoyed being in the physical, and so, word went out that a search was to be made for another ‘home’. Space craft went out looking for this home, and after many searches in many places finally found the Earth plane.
At that stage of its development, the Earth plane was at a stage where the caveman was. Man had just evolved into the human shape but had little intelligence. The Brotherhood were elated to find this. It was decided that in order to connect with this race of beings, they would merge with this species through merging with the DNA and with cloning. This was done, and the new human was created and started to grow.
The new human being was more evolved than most of its kind, and as it grew, showed remarkable abilities which the normal caveman did not have. It was this new human who educated others about fire. Very soon the caveman began to evolve at a very quick rate. The new human soon bred with the old human, and the ‘human’ we know today was evolved.
The Brotherhood kept an eye on the new human beings and made regular visits to see if they were doing well. It is these early visits which are remarked on in the Christian Old Testament and described as Ezekiel Wheel and other events. Scientists have often said they cannot find the missing link between caveman and the modern human, well this is it!
Soon though, they became aware that the new human being was different to those on the planet of two Suns. They started to fight, argue and became very negative. The Brotherhood were disturbed about this and were instructed to find out why this was happening. It was soon discovered that a mistake had been made. The new race of beings had the Higher Self of the Brotherhood beings, but they had also, through breeding, taken on the survival instinct of the caveman. It is this basic instinct type energy, which we now call the Self. This energy was only in the caveman. It was a natural energy designed to assist with survival. However it

RE: So who/what created God???

I feel as though I have just Dattswammied you

You have.
Great verb - to Dattaswami.:D
Sharon.

RE: So who/what created God???

ORIGINAL: Tucker

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quote]

I'm nominating this as an early contender for "Post of the Year".

Regards
Tucker

Thanks. It's a long time since I won an award.

RE: So who/what created God???

A suggestion, Publisher - I don't think your post is in the right place as it doesn't address the question of Who/What created God - perhaps it would be a good idea to give it it's own thread in the Spirituality Forum?

RE: So who/what created God???

HI Spinal Music,

I think you are right :D, but I read the last dozen or so posts and it - as always - got so off coarse (nothwithstanding the 'true' referance that God did actually come from Accrington Stanley) that I thought it wouldn't matter - apologies if I was [sm=offtopic.gif]

Best wishes
Publisher [sm=wave.gif]

RE: So who/what created God???

Oh please don't apologise, Publisher - the previous posts were just jokes. Yours may be too, I can see that now.
Sharon.

RE: So who/what created God???

ORIGINAL: Publisher

HI Spinal Music,

(nothwithstanding the 'true' referance that God did actually come from Accrington Stanley)
Best wishes
Publisher [sm=wave.gif]

How true. But surely God should be in the premiere league? Still, give it 3 or 4 years?

RE: So who/what created God???

ORIGINAL: houseboy

How true. But surely God should be in the premiere league? Still, give it 3 or 4 years?

If God is going to be in the Premiere League and come out tops, it appears he'll have to first be financed by a Russian billionarre ... [:-]Or - just as Hinduism has Brahman as an aspect of God higher than the Trinity, would that make Abramovich the highestGod?

On the Maitreya message, I sometimes think channeled messages need a sub-thread of their own. When the invididual themselves is posting, we may agree or disagree but know it's their authentic selves. I have written at least once or twice on HP :Dthat channeled messagesthrough different people (1) tend almost always, it seems, to disagree with each other- hence 100 channels quote the same named Master, but 'he' or 'she' disagrees with most of the others, ergo 99 or even 100 of them by logic would be inauthentic; (2) there's a clear problem of whether it comes from the unconscious or not. Even sources I largelytrust apear to have inaccuracies.

So, it's not a suggestion I actually think will be taken up (sub-forum for channeled words) but it can be a bit confusing when a RL person suddenly shifts into .... what Conspiritualist once with tongue in cheek called 'Archangel Rupert'. ;)I respect anyone's right to post channeled things, but there are going to be many people who don't acceptthem, or all of them,as legit, I suspect.... I've often come across channelers quoting the same Master "at" each other, each claiming the others aren't real!

Hope nobody minds this little opinion.:)

V

RE: So who/what created God???

Hi Everyone,

Just a personal note on Venetian's last post about channelled words. Personally I don't see the difference between a quote from a work that is channelled, or a reference from a book by an author - I'm sure we don't all agree with every quotation from a book that just happens top be by an admired author of the postee, but we all accept a person's right to air their views - do we not [sm=scratchchin.gif].

Have a good one
Publisher [sm=wave.gif]

RE: So who/what created God???

Hi Publisher,

Your post simply brought the subject (in general) to mind. I suppose we can't go too far down this route (of the subject) as it'll be off-topic. :eek:However, on the one hand I do realise it's a delicate issue, as each channeler appears always to be so convinced in their own messages as authentic - even if you were put ten in a room among whom none agreed, but each insisted that theirs was the real Master of a certain name! It's also delicate as a channeler can be highly convinced that they have a close personal relationship, perhaps, with the proposed being.

But it isn't the same as quoting a book by an embodied author. First, the author is unlikely to release one hundred books or series' of messages which all disagree with each other, claiming to each be the 'real' one (as happens with the Masters' names). There's a problem of logic there which appears insurmountable, that few if any of the books can be truly from the said source.

While Maitreya is a name from far back and in Buddhism, only since Theosophy from 1875 on did his name get associated and well-known with anything in modern times, and only since 1875 was he associated with a Brotherhood. The Maitreya of Theosophy states that he doesn't speak through channelers. Then it's also become a bit of a mess, since his name has been used in particular by Benjamin Creme (claiming that he's living as a bus driver - was it? - in East London, and bringing discredit to the name).

Third, you see, an acknowledged author is pretty definitely for real. There's a lot of information ... on HP if it has threads old enough to dig up, try a search on "Philip The Ghost ... along the lines that the human mind is capable of the most amazing phenomena including speaking to itself under different assumed names.

Those three points - the many disagreeing channelers using same names, that the original organisation through which Maitreya appeared in modern times (since 1875)has a Maitreya who in effect says 'The others aren't me!', and the good evidence for unconscious processes - make channeling a 'soft' source of information, not hard as from an embodied author.

But I only picked up on the subject as an interesting side-bar in the general sense; certainly in no personal sense regarding yourself. My point would simply be that when channeling is introduced into a discussion, many can view this as pretty 'soft' or debatable info. Creme's 'Maitreya' is the one who was going to appear to everybody in the world over TV and speak simultaneously in their own language, in the 1980s. On the appointed day we found Creme scrabbling for an excuse. 'The world wasn't ready' we were informed after the non-appearance:D.

One only has to put Maitreya into a search engine to begin to see the problem. Which one is it? They don't agree on major pointsif you read the detail. How many differing versions are there, I wonder!!! - a very nice lady, unpublished, just started writing to me from Australia, and again her Maitreya differs - I'm told he's now "changed his name", is "no longer concerned with Earth" and on and on...

All the best,

Venetian

RE: So who/what created God???

Helloooo Moderators. Is anyone reading this?
Ok then. Continuing [sm=offtopic.gif]
I agree with V.
Perhaps all the channellers could post on a channelling Forum, creating some interesting opportunities for channelled debate. At one stage that was more or less happening as Dattaswami made a takeover bid for all of HP, if not cyberspace in it's entirety,but the other channelled spirits seem modest in their ambition by comparison. I haven't heard a peep out of Archangel Rupert. I don't think they'll get a chat-room though - if Darren and his chums failed efforts are anything to go by.
Hey ho.
Sharon.
PS God (yours), Time, Space etc - theymust be infinite.

RE: So who/what created God???

Yes, it is off-topic (except that if we are to assess truth, about God no less,then it's on-topic to discuss what sources seem valid to us). But I see I should have started a new thread. [&:]

BTW, if anyone doesn't know - I do believe in the Masters, and that there are certain kinds of messages they do give. It's just that since 1998 I've been in debate with various people, way before I found HP, and there's great disagreement about which messages and sources are valid, which not. After eight years in that debate it seems unsolvable between people except that say that each must use their own discernment - and among folk I know, still peacefully disagree. ;)(It's not just between individuals, but a disagreement between largish organisations too.)

V

RE: So who/what created God???

Dear V - I've read enough of your posts to have some idea of your spiritual background and please forgive meif you think I'm being disrespectful to you or Publisher - but my reason is thatif these posts popped up in the Mystics Forum or the Spirituality Forum then that would be fine (for me) - I know my boundaries, and everyone has a right to free expression. I would probably read and digest them and move on - it's not my field. But I'm a bit narked when they crop up on the Philosophy Forum and the Scientific Forum, for instance, with the unspoken (but sometimes verbalised) assumption that because this stuff is channelled it must be true, end of debate, yah boo sucks to the scientists, (for instance).There is no critical thought behind the process. It changes the debate-this place is called Healthypages, not Mysticpages, or Channelledpages.

And besides, the comic potential of a Channelled Forum...... .......I've got half a Radio 4 sketch half hour in my head already.......where's that post from the 207 year old Vietnamese monk (Tantric sex practitioner, never went shopping) who channelled that the moon was made of cheese? This isbacked up by the conspiracy theory that ever since the moon landings no-one from Nasa has ever been seen buying parmesan..........

Anyway............... Mods? Are they all on holiday?

RE: So who/what created God???

ORIGINAL: spinal music

the comic potential of a ChannelledForum...... .......I've got half a Radio 4 sketch half hour in my head already.......

I wasn't going to be the one to say it. ;)I had a quick thought like that too, in a good-natured way. Disembodied spirits talking to each other here, while we listen in? If it's not channeled it's off-topic? 😉

But we all have our viewpoints. I must say that a few times, on the philosophy or science areas, I have found myself delving into Hinduism and Vedanta. Because if anyone has sufficient knowledge of Hinduism, they'll know it has what IMO is a perfectly respectable science dating back millennia, andquite arguablya more involved, deeper, more sophisticated history of philosophy than the West - and that is philosophy, not magic or such. It's worth touching base with Hinduism IMO on most of the 'Big Questions', as they've been pondering these things longer than we have, even if you take our philosophy back to ancient Greece. (Greek philosophy probably derived from India!) The question of this thread is a perfect example, to which Hinduism certainly provides several replies to ponder.

Venetian

RE: So who/what created God???

Still here, and not on holiday (just yet). You did a brilliant job of using the[sm=offtopic.gif] smiley though. 😉

So have we decided who or what created God yet? Is God listening and laughing at how far from the truth we are, or applauding at how close we have got?

If it's exhausted the thread, lets start another one....

Hugs
Steve

RE: So who/what created God???

Dear V

But we all have our viewpoints. I must say that a few times, on the philosophy or science areas, I have found myself delving into Hinduism and Vedanta. Because if anyone has sufficient knowledge of Hinduism, they'll know it has what IMO is a perfectly respectable science dating back millennia, and quite arguably a more involved, deeper, more sophisticated history of philosophy than the West - and that is philosophy, not magic or such. It's worth touching base with Hinduism IMO on most of the 'Big Questions', as they've been pondering these things longer than we have, even if you take our philosophy back to ancient Greece. (Greek philosophy probably derived from India!) The question of this thread is a perfect example, to which Hinduism certainly provides several replies to ponder.

This is what I really enjoy about your posts. I love and respect the breadth of your knowledgeand the relevance of the way you use it.
Incidentally, re Greek philosophy and it's influence on the British Isles - we all allude to it - but what about Norse philosophy - did the Vikings have any? I have tried a google search in the past but nothing came up - maybe they were doers not thinkers, or nothing got written down. Perhaps the climate didn't support philosophers........

I also enjoy reading about people's spiritual experiences and I've shared a few of my own here in the past, and will in the future, (hopefully in the appropriate place.). That's the joy of HP - that pretty well all human life is here - or if it isn't already, you can ask a question and someone will know, bless em all.

Dear Steve, nice to have you with us. The God question is of course impossible to answer, but maybe it could run a bit further.
"I am the alpha and the omega" - he created himself and will end himself. The end could be a bit like spontaneous combustion (Johnny Vegas in Bleak House) and the beginning - well spontaneous creation?It is truly mind boggling.

Sharonx

RE: So who/what created God???

Nah, Steve. You wereapparently just keeping things going there whileeverybody getstheir second wind! 😉

Just to make the serious point about Indian philosophy, Sharon:
[link= http://faculty.washington.edu/kpotter/encyclo.html ]http://faculty.washington.edu/kpotter/encyclo.html[/link]

The answer to the thread questionis right in there ... if you know where to look!

No, there has never been a Scandinavian philosophy. I have friends there and can assure you there can't have been. ;)Well, there is one and this is no joke: Jante's Law:
[link= http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A140860 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A140860[/link]
My friends there tell me many people really do live according to it. It basically means that everybody should try to be the same, and nobody should be different to the average. (I don't think it would go down well among HP members?)

V

RE: So who/what created God???

The answer to the thread question is right in there ... if you know where to look!

Ah now I understand.....everything. 😉

RE: So who/what created God???

[&:]

RE: So who/what created God???

ORIGINAL: spinal music

Incidentally, re Greek philosophy and it's influence on the British Isles - we all allude to it - but what about Norse philosophy - did the Vikings have any? I have tried a google search in the past but nothing came up - maybe they were doers not thinkers, or nothing got written down. Perhaps the climate didn't support philosophers........

Hi Sharon,
I feel like they did (both a philosophy and an influence).
They had a very clear belief system that demonstrated a superb Karma and Dharma philosophy, the Norse creation myth begins with a void that allows room for many universes, an initial enormous void (much like the veda) then spawns two worlds (or types) of matter then a chemical reaction occurs between these two 'worlds' that sprang from the void and created the 'base' giant Ymir from whom further life sprang (a boiling giant of mud like stuff)… other things happen but lead to the 'Cow giant' (soz cant remember the name) but it has parallels in Sumerian and Hindu mythology… anyway from this 'Cow' came Odin (amongst others) and Odin was the creator of man & woman as we are now…(but even he had to make himself 'special' and God-like).

I've really have missed loads out, like the Tree that holds our world in stasis, the three women that sit on the well that cover Past, Present & Future with the knowledge that the stasis will end (much like Ohm or the three faces of Brahma – creation, sustenance & destruction), & even allows for mischief makers like Loki… soz Sharon there really is loads and I certainly could not do it any real justice [:-]but I do think it's wonderful and it had quite a profound effect on the people of these shores definitely for 500 years but has clearly left (well what I believe is a really interesting) legacy ever since.

RE: So who/what created God???

More seriously on Norse philosophy, as with Hinduism you can take the anthropomorphic 'gods' to all be aspects of the One.

You have the unmanifest One, similar to Brahman in Hinduism, and the latent, unmanifest universe which needs an aspect of 'God' to bring it to life - to turn it into energy and matter. In Greece this was Zeus: even that "zzzz" sound implies electricity ora form of power; in Hinduism we have Indra, of lightning and thunder; Blavatsky brought us fragments of the Book of Dzyan which again has that "zzzz!!" - in Norse myth it's represented by Thor (I wonder if it was pronounced more like 'Zzthor'?), God of Thunder. (As he said in the Marvel comic once, "I am Mighty Thor!" - to which a predestrian replies, "Yeth, you and me both, lady [the long blonde hair].)

On the thread question I just found this from Hindu scripture:

"To reason out the truth of God is one thing, and to meditate upon God is another. But again, when illumination comes through the grace of God, then only is the truth of God known and experienced. Just as a dark room is lighted up when you strikea match, so is the heart lighted up by the grace of God. Then alone are all doubts dissolved away."

So we are only certain of God's existence by God's own grace, when that is given. I'd expect that how God originated is the same and requires even more grace of illumination but can't by reason be figured out.

V

RE: So who/what created God???

Sorry Steve - but you see we (well David) has got back on topic now. 🙂

Roger this is really interesting and I would like to know more - are there any books you'ld recommend? Just a thought - the Vikings were such great travellers, and blondes crop up unexpectedly all over - oh I've just discovered some stuff and will start another thread! Hopefully see you on it!

Sharon

RE: So who/what created God???

Hi Sharon,

I've replied to your thread on 'general discussions' re: Vikings. We can't consider the Vikings in isolation, for they were closely related in blood and culture to the Saxons. I've put it on on the board for you there.

Be interested to hear from Roger, too.

Love,
Patsy.
xxxxx

RE: So who/what created God???

ORIGINAL: Ange

Hi SpiritSaver,

I just found this thread today, so would like to add my humble opinion. I was interested in your statement "you all seem more knowledgeable than I am" Well I beg to differ about that. Nobody is knowledgeable about God, that would be impossible unless they were dead and in Spirit (If the spirit world is what you happen to believe in)

Different people have different theories which is great, but nobody knows, even people who are brilliant at writing and explaining their theories, or researchers and scientists - they don't know for sure whether there is a God or not, so my point is that your knowledge on this subject is as good and as important as everyone elses!

So I would say it is up to us. If we can lead a useful life, learning along the way, and helping people, it is of no importance whether there is a God, or whether the human race has evolved naturally. The good thing about the God subject is that we can all please ourselves. If we want to believe in a man in the sky with a clipboard, great - some people like to do that. If we want to go to church - do it, If we want to believe in a great spiritual energy force for good, super. Wanna be an atheist? fine...let's all do our own thing and have our own beliefs. Make your God anything you want. There is a great spiritual love out there, a great spiritual love on these forums. If we love one another, help one another, and respect each other's views, our lives will be rich and fulfilled, and when we die..........well we'll find out for certain then, won't we:D:D:D

Love to you all
Moonstone xx

Just to say thank you Ange - you have voiced my opinion perfectly. 🙂

RE: So who/what created God???

Hi there just skimming everyone's amazing ideas - a bible passage came to me where Jesus said "He who believes in me will do much greater things than I". I don't have a bible to hand but I do know it's in the gospels. I believe that that was a great expression of the love of God who I believe is the Alpha and the Omega - willing to give himself and also allow his son to die so that we can be reborn into greater love without end - cool eh?

Love y'all xxxxx

RE: So who/what created God???

Hi Spiritsaver,
Who or what is God this is a question that I myself ask as I look I am brought thru that phase in life were I look to find the specialness that is available to bring about a creative spark that this infinte being can create a specialness that is available, with the worlds plights around us this is a time that I can put aside doubt and bring forward the parts of the pathway that I am able to justify the day. Looking to thingsof the spiritual can bring about the tunning into the paths of the ways that God can work creating a space to bring about newness to the journey that we are on trying to create a place to bringup the passage of theprejudice that is in the mists of spiritual conflicts this can bring about the tuning in the graces of the whyGod is....And why he created Us...

RE: So who/what created God???

No one created God. God is everything, all knowing, all powerful etc. There has always been God. Time is meaningless to God, so it is irrelevant to talk of a beginning and an end, this is a very human constructed concept. God doesn't need us, we need God. We are not an experiment, more of an accident. [link= http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/apocjn.html ]The Secret Book of John[/link], of the Nag Hammadi Library gives a very interesting account on how everything came to be. Marvin Meyer's interpretation is better, but this one gives the general idea.

My thoughts anyway.

RE: So who/what created God???

Sorry if any of this has already been said. I only read the OP.

ORIGINAL: spiritsaver

Was he created? If its just energy/spirit where did that come from? is anyone guiding God?
Even with the theories we are God, God is us, there seems to be reference to a plan......so whos plan is that, is it ours and Gods?.......it is all so confusing, i seem to get it then its lost again!

I think God is existence itself. God, in Its ultimate form, is timeless. It is not something in existence, it is not a process in time. It is everything, including time itself. For this reason, the question of what came before doesn't come up for me. The question doesn't make sense if God is all of time and all of existence. If It is all of time, there is no "before". If it is all of existence, there is nothing else to account for its existence. Existence accounts for itself in virtue of just being existence.

As for God's plan - yes, we and It share the same plan. We are one with existence and so whatever the goal of existence is, it is also our goal. However, there is a difference between which objectives we're trying to meet. The ultimate objective of God/existence is simply to be, to exist. But as you enter into a time-bound and space-bound context (i.e. when you consider God in Its expanded form - expanding throughout space and throughout time), we see that this objective, the objective to be, is also expanded. It is expanded into the infinite number of steps it takes to meet this objective. Every single event that happens in the universe, is necessary to meet the grand objective. Every event must happen in order for God/existence to be. This includes all human activities. It includes everything we do, all our aspirations and goals. So every objective we have, right down to making a ham and cheese sandwich for lunch, is a tiny but crucial step towards meeting the greater objective of existence. We fail to see beyond our own personal objectives and how they tie into the grand objective because we ourselves are incomplete. We are one with God, but not holistically. We make up only a part of God. The consequence of this is that our consciousness also makes up only a part of God, and therefore all the foresight that exists for God, guiding It towards Its grand objective, is not seen by the portion of this consciousness that we share. We don't see it. We only see that part of it that guides us towards our objectives.

That would be my answer. It's clearly just my opinion, but I hope it sheds some light on your question.