if I should make a promise in front of other people ( yes a marriage) is it ever right to break that promise?
x
RE: moral dilemma
Hi Dallas,
In response to your dilemma may I say that if you are asking the question then I would first think about why you are getting married in the first place.
I'm sending you healing thoughts of love in the hope that you make a decision that is true to you and your feelings
x
RE: moral dilemma
Dallas,
It is ok to question going forward- especially in marriage. Don't betray your own values, morals, beliefs, spirit, by doing anything that pleases others at your own expense.
If this is only fear, you must face that.
The particulars of your situationmay determine your choice. Is it love, commitment, convenience, lust, logical conclusion, uplifting need, or any of the other aspects we use to determine our choice? Think these through and follow what your spirit and heartguides you to.
Marriage is hard work but worth it. Love is the greatest part of our life experiences.
My prayers and love are with you.
RE: moral dilemma
Dear Dallas,
I can’t help but feel there is something behind your question? It’s good that you are thinking in this way rather than just ignoring any possible future problems.
None of us is at the standpoint of perfection yet. What is important is your motive. Your motive for getting married, for making that commitment, your motive behind the question.
So long as you love the person and INTEND to remain faithful, well, that’s probably the most that we can promise. Some friends of mine, at the ceremony have, when asked the question “Will you forsake all others till death do us part?” etc, have not answered yes, but “That is my intention.”
I hope this below, which I always share with people thinking of marriage, will help:
"Matrimony should never be
entered into without a full
recognition of its enduring
obligations on both sides.
There should be the most
tender solicitude for each
other's happiness, and mutual
attention and approbation
should wait on all the years
of married life."
Mary Baker Eddy (Science & Health p 59)
SOLICITUDE: carefulness,
concern..
ATTENTION: the act of
attending or heeding. A
stretching towards;
waiting, listening...
APPROBATION: the act of
approving; a liking; pleasure,
satisfaction, support...
Webster 1875
Judy
RE: moral dilemma
Ah yes i should explain
I have already made a promise, entered into a marriage and whilst i have done my best to fulfill my promise, I am being subjected to emotional and mental abuse as my husband has an addiction problem.
At the time of the marriage, he had an addiction problem, so he can break the promise as he 'was not in his right mind' but I was not addicted at the time, nor was i fully aware of the true extent of addiction and the associated consequences
I am really struggling with this, we have been seperated for 18mths but i am finding it hard to let go, partly because i struggle with the whole 'promise' and I beleive marriage has its high's and lows and 'in sickness and in health' phrase doesnt help me either.
but is there or are there situations where one could be released from the marriage, moralistically
Sure everyone can get divorced and it seems everyone does but how do they deal with it on on that level?
I meant the words at the time, but today I would not marry him and I have felt like that for 6 of the 8 years we have been married.
RE: moral dilemma
Dear Dallas,
My heart goes out to you! I have always found that the only solution to any problem in life is to turn it over to God. To my understanding, God is divine, infinite Love and HisHer will for you is only for good, never for pain or suffering. Your relationship with Love is the one great eternal relationship you will always have. It will always there, will never let us down, never judge; just cherishes, comforts, supplies and guides. Love is the core of our being. To feel this truth and to know it, we just have to listen to the sacred voice that calls us the "Beloved".
"Being the Beloved expresses the core truth of our existence... We are intimately loved long before our parents, teachers, spouses, children and friends loved or wounded us ...
Listening to that voice with great inner attentiveness, I hear at my centre words that say: 'I have called you by name, from the very beginning. You are mine and I am yours ... on you my favour rests. I have moulded you in the depths of the earth and knitted you together in your mother's womb. I have carved you in the palms of my hands and hidden you in my embrace... You belong to me. I am your father, your mother, your brother, your sister, your lover and your spouse...yes, even your child...wherever you are I will be. Nothing will ever separate us. We are one."
Henri Nouven, Life of the Beloved
I always find that the best way to deal with evil, (in your case, the evil of alcoholism) is to separate it from the person. Your husband’s true nature is not that of an alcoholic.
Here below are links to two articles from literally hundreds on that deal with marriage and abuse. In the first case, the marriage was restored, in the second, the right answer was divorce.
[url] Putting God first saved my marriage[/url]
[url] Gratitude freed me from an abusive marriage[/url]
In April I heard an inspiring talk by Ginny Luedeman CS . She grew up with an abusive alcoholic father and this in turn led her to experiment with drugs and lead a very immoral life. She completely turned her life around when she found God’s love, but her father’s betrayal was always a shadow until she had a glimpse one day of his real spiritual identity and this not only freed her of the pain, but him of the alcoholism:
What can heal our yesterday?
[DLMURL] http://www.ginnyl.com/yesterday.htm [/DLMURL]
I finally knew my real Dad
[DLMURL] http://www.ginnyl.com/I_FINALLY.htm [/DLMURL]
There's an audio chat with her too:
[url] Find freedom from addiction[/url]
Hope this helps a little!
Love and peace,
Judy
RE: moral dilemma
Hi dallas,
Your question is asked at a very high, philosophical level. I'm sorry if I can't meet it at that level, as it would take more than a book, I think. But I can reply in a bit of a down-to-earth, practical way.
I went through divorce many years ago, so I don't come to this subject without experience. I feel that people just about always get married, at least the first time around, in the full belief that it's for life and will be for life. (By the way, many marriages still are - as I think you write above along the lines that none are?)
I think in part it's youthful naivety, and in another part sheer idealism, and there's nothing wrong with that. In my own case, I did give it a long time, I'd say. When I was pretty certain that the marriage was doomed, out of idealism I decided to give it precisely another two years, and only act after giving it another two years - which I did. It was a private promise I made to myself.
You say that you've already been separated for 18 months? On the one hand, just in my opinion, that sounds pretty final, so why not get divorced then?
You know what? If the addiction problem is healed, and should you change your mind one fine day in the future, it's not too late. Divorce doesn't have to be "the end". If you want to, you could still remain friends with him. But my step-sister got divorced twelve years ago .... and remarried the same man this year! They are both very happy again. So even divorce is a reversible decision, should you ever find the problem that led you to it is truly over.
Best wishes,
Venetian
RE: moral dilemma
thankyou for your replies
both of which are completely different, I suppose i am sitting on the fence and being a typical libra as am finding the decision a difficult one to make.
Icant quite solve this problem, I have several friends who have gone through similar and found it difficult to 'let go' due to one partner becoming addicted to something and the other partner is left holding the relationship.
Its difficult to explain as the addicted person is not 'capable' to make a decision regarding the relationship, they dont really see the situation as it is, but through a haze. the drugs/alcohol numb all feeling and so dont end the relationship through a conciousness act( sp!) and are therefore technically 'ill'
The non addicted partner is seeing the truth ( i suppose) and can see the partner is sick and feels guilt at 'not being able to cope' with the illness but to stay is to enable the addicted person to continue without consequence.
I guess the whole 'sickness and health' has really got to me, it leaves one in limbo.
I think its in part to do with moving onto another relationship, or the possibility, how do i love someone else if I still think there are ties to the other pserson and not by marraige/divorce but because the addicted person cannot move on because he lacks consciouness.
again I think this is due to the fact that 2 of my female friends have divorced their addcited husbands but have not moved on, maybe they did to shock them or bring them to their senses regarding their addiction and therefore divorced to bring about change as much as they probably married for the same reasons?
I am sure there are plenty of divorced people who never have moved on and addiction played no part, i suppose i need to be very sure before I make a final decscion.
I guess it the searching of heart, soul and mind before letting go.
d x
RE: moral dilemma
I've only been married for less than 2yrs, but each of my parents have 3 marriages under their belts and both are single now. So, I'm familiar with divorce in a variety of situations. Bless you dallas for giving this so much loving energy, you are on a difficult but truthful path. Being honest with yourself is of the utmost importance, and honesty with your partner is right up there with it. It's ok to say I want this to work, but... or, I wish I could help you through this, but... Your life path is up to you, as his is up to him. You may choose to stay and attend to his needs, you can already feel how that leaves your own needs unattended. If you do choose to stay, you must do this for no other reason than you truly wish to be his aid. You mustn't expect him to change, or to 'get better', you have to realize that you would be staying in spite of his known hurtful behaviors. Your other option is to leave, which you have already begun. Leaving does not mean you refuse to help him, it means you refuse to allow him to hurt you. As venetian said, divorce is no more permanent than marriage. You two will always be linked, the marriage is a mere legal contract. Whether you stay or go, you must do so completely aware of your choice and be honest with yourself about your expectations. The marriage 'promise' is for those who make it, and no one else. You don't need anyone's approval or 'ok' to break that promise, it is a decision for you and you only. Your friends who have let go, but not 'let go', perhaps they have expectations like, "if I leave him he'll take me seriously and that will clean him up" and so they wait and wait...Don't fool yourself into this thinking, and don't be afraid to 'abandon' him. If you're leaving, then leave and move on, if he returns he returns, if not, then not.
I think addictions are emotional manifestations of repressed issues. Some men/women don't 'wake up' to their behaviors until after 40yrs of destructive behavior. In recent generations the marriage stayed intact and fostered a great deal of abuse and mistreatment. You mustn't fall victim to the marriage trap, don't let anyone tell you that you must stay simply because you made a promise. It's an archaic tradition, and like Principled said, it would be more accurately answered with "that is my intention"
I hope you find your solution and that it brings you peace.
With Love,
Gayle
RE: moral dilemma
[sm=hug.gif]Hello dallas.
My sister in law has just got divorced from an alcoholic. none of us in the family could understand why she kept taking him back every time she threw him out, her answer was i take my marrage vows seriousely,
so i asked her where it says that you should stay and take the abuse mental and physical in any vow.she couldnt find it but still she wouldnt divorce him. so i told her to think of her daughters why should they have to watch what was going on, that made her think , now she has finally divorced him and she couldnt be happier.its no good staying in any relationship if you are going to be unhappy life is to short
take care
RE: moral dilemma
Like Principled, I too have a saying that I like to share with people as I feel it takes the pressure off "having to do the right thing" see below.
We come into the world alone and we go out alone and every relationship we have inbetween is a blessing and a lesson-good or bad.
Season, Reason or Lifetime?
"People come into your life for a reason, a season, or a lifetime. When you figure out which one it is, you will know what to do for each person.
When someone is in your life for a REASON. . . It is usually to meet a need you have expressed. They have come to assist you through a difficulty, to provide you with guidance and support, to aid you physically, emotionally, or spiritually. They may seem like a godsend, and they are! They are there for the reason you need them to be. Then, without any wrong doing on your part, or at an inconvenient time, this person will say or do something to bring the relationship to an end. Sometimes they die. Sometimes they walk away. Sometimes they act up and force you to take a stand. What we must realize is that our need has been met, our desire fulfilled, their work is done. The prayer you sent up has been answered. And now it is time to move on.
When people come into your life for a SEASON it is because your turn has come to share, grow, or learn. They bring you an experience of peace, or make you laugh. They may teach you something you have never done. They usually give you an unbelievable amount of joy. Believe it! It is real! But, only for a season.
LIFETIME relationships teach you lifetime lessons; things you must build upon in order to have a solid emotional foundation. Your job is to accept the lesson, love the person, and put what you have learned to use in all other relationships and areas of your life. It is said that love is blind but friendship is clairvoyant. "
This can work both ways. If your relationship lasts for a short while, the lesson may have been for your partner to learn from you i.e the Reason was not for your growth but theirs.Good luck in your decision.
RE: moral dilemma
ORIGINAL: venetian
I feel that people just about always get married, at least the first time around, in the full belief that it's for life and will be for life.
I used to think this and was brought up to believe this. However I've had my naivety shattered in the last decade and now I just feel that sadly quite a number of people get married for what they can get out of it. That may not necessarily be money - it could be :
- so that there's a second income so their standard of living rises (move to a larger house, nicer area etc)
- it could be that they want children and "anyone will do",
- they want to get married (to have the stutus of being Mrs so and so) and "anyone will do"
- they don't want to live on their own/fend for themselvesand "anyone will do"
- they want someone to look after their children (step father/mother)
There are also people who are forced/coerced into marriage but I just feel sorry for them.
I find it nauseating and devious that people can marry someoneand dupe that person into believing they love them just to get their hands on that person's money,for their ability to give them children etc etc. I've had people confess all of the above to me - even an evangelical Christian who said she married her husband after finishing college because she didn't "want to be on her own". Nice !! This reminds me of reading about Kate Middleton's (Prince William's ex) sister in the newspapers recently - who is said to be absolutely determined to bag a wealthy and titled bloke. Anyone who marries her now will wonder - is she in it for the money ?
I agree with all the people here - the ONLY reason to marry someone and give your committment to them is because you love them and want to be with them for the rest of your life.It may turn out not to happen - but the intention shold be there at the marriage.
Dallas - in the above I was replying to a comment that venetian made and was stating my beliefs purely in relation to that sentence. I realise that they don't relate to you in any way. I hope that you can come to a decision about your predicament but I agree with what solas has said.
RE: moral dilemma
Hi Dallas,
I hope that the support you've received from the lovely people here at HP has been a bit of a comfort to you. Like Happygirl, what I'm sharing now is actually nothing to do with you or your problem, but her comments above reminded me that I have a little notebook which has quotes about and by women. Most of them are quite sarcastic and funny (there are some outrageous Mae West ones!) but there is one that is supposed to be funny, but which is actually very very sad.
"Women get married because they're tired of feeling lonely. Then they get divorced for the same reason."
Any relationship which is not based on honesty and principle is going to flounder (even those that are sometimes do too)
Judy
RE: moral dilemma
thankyou all for sharing, your comments are very valuable, I guess its like the mother who says 'how do i know im a good mum' I always say because you ask the question
I know I dont have to make a deciscion any time soon, I think i am just going through a 'letting go process'
the more I let go, the more i discover, so its not as painful as i imagined: its bitter sweet
who knows where this journey will take me, hopefully away from the lonliness
thankyou all, Im new to this site and very impressed with everyones thoughtfulness and sensitivity
x
I realize that this post was started several months ago. However, I wanted to add my two cents.
Dallas, have you checked out any support groups for family of alcoholics /drug addicts? They may be helpful.
I have divorced my first husband many years ago. He is an alcoholic and drug addict. When I made my vows, I meant them. However, I was quite immature at the time, although I was 23. I thought that I was in love with him. Over the years, I have analyzed myself. I think that I was just in love with someone telling me they loved me. No matter what abuse I endured, he was always sorry. So, I forgave him, after all he "loved" me. Perhaps, it was because my father never told me that he loved me. But, that was just their way, they didn't speak of feelings. He was an alcoholic, too. Although, my father was a good provider. He was not mean, or abusive. However, in my younger years, I never felt loved by him. He just seemed apathetic to me back then. Now that I am older and wiser, I have forgiven my father. I do believe that he loved me, but I didn't feel it while he was alive. He died when I was 17.
Now, back to my ex-husband - I started to mature after having children. Unfortunately, it took me that long to see the light. But, my priority was my children. They were better off being in a peaceful environment. My son, who is 26 now still remembers an incident when he was only three years old. That is how much it traumatized him, to have a memory that far back. I left him when my son was three, and my daughter was a baby of 10 months. I never regretted divorcing him, even if it meant that I would be alone. But, then I was very involved with my children and their activities. I never gave myself time to feel alone. I divorced my ex, after a 2 yr. separation. I, too, was ambivalent about a divorce. After, going through therapy, I learned that divorce didn't have to be the end.
I was happily divorced for many years. I was content to not date and remain single. After 7 years, I was ready to start dating. Six months, after I started dating, I met my current husband. We have been together for 12 years. I am happily married.
I was immature when I married the first time. Also, delusional that I would "change" him after we were married. I was the only one who changed. A marriage takes two. You should not feel responsible for breaking vows. But, you are responsible for your own happiness. And, when you are not happy, you cannot be your best for others. You owe it to yourself to be happy!
Marriage Vows and Alcohol addiction!
if I should make a promise in front of other people ( yes a marriage) is it ever right to break that promise?
x
Yes it is! Dallas!
I did not see your post earlier, else I would have commented.
I have studied, I repeat, studied, carefully all your posts on this thread, 1, 5 and 8.
I believe that V, whose views I agree with, has given the most accurate and justified response.
Let's go through your posts:
"i have done my best to fulfill my promise, I am being subjected to emotional and mental abuse as my husband has an addiction problem...."
Abuse like that is never, I repeat NEVER, justified. It is reason sufficient, on its own, to abandon this hopeless marriage! You have but, ONE LIFE, to lead and fulfil!
This is the real thing, NOT a trial!
"are there situations where one could be released from the marriage, moralistically"
YES, there is and this is one of them!
Except that I wince from your use of the word, "moralistically". I believe it should be "morally".
But please forgive my Vulcan upbringing!
You also wrote:
6 of the 8 years we have been married.
8 Years? Not too long. Not too late to seek fulfilment in THIS LIFE!
I apologise for stating the obvious!
This is NOT a rehearsal! It is the real thing!
You also wrote:
being a typical libra as am finding the decision a difficult one to make.
"Typical Libra"? I can see that!
But you still need decide and execute that decision. And the sooner, the better!
You also wrote:
I guess the whole 'sickness and health' has really got to me...
Well, don't.
That "sickness and health" routone must not, I repeat, must not get to you!
You also wrote:
how do i love someone else if I still think there are ties to the other person
Very, Very simple. There is NO OTHER PERSON!
There is you! and there is eternity!
And the two are one and the same.
I hope and pray that you can find happiness in the Infinite!
What you might recognise as the "Holy Spirit"!
Live long and prosper.
Prashna